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No, but you know actually evil people are going to have zero qualms about leveraging this for their purposes.
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Aug 27, 2020 17:39
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Pick posted:It's a huge overreaction, but it is also an overreaction that was likely to occur in the context of a show that had nothing else going for it. what the gently caress
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Aug 27, 2020 18:38
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RE: The Noelle Stevenson thing- I have mixed feelings about it. It's being called an overreaction in the thread, and that is probably true, but there's a few things to think about here. It's exhausting to think of all the ways your creation might hurt people, I admit, especially in the act of creation. But I think it's easy to forget sometimes how all the more exhausting it can be to be the only minority in a group of people, because if you are, you have a difficult choice. That being: to call out things you think are offensive or misconstrued as such, and thus risk being brushed off as a nuisance/killjoy or excised from the group entirely; or to merely nod your head and smile, and suffer in silence. I speak in terms of "group" here, because I feel like a lot of the anger and frustration about this is coming from the fandom who are minorities, and I cannot speak about how the black creators of She-Ra Princess of Power feel because... well, there aren't any. And that's kinda the rub here, isn't it: there was no one in the moment who could have reminded them of how these particular jokes might have been taken (especially in this delicate time) because none of the people talking had skin in the game, so to speak. Am I saying a white person cannot tell a story involving black characters? No, but I am saying that imagination has a lot of pitfalls due to the entirety of culture shoving certain people into certain boxes for literal centuries, and if you have the input of a black person into your character, you don't have to imagine, do you? (There is another issue in having only one character who is queer/BIPOC or coded as such on your show, because of how easy it is to fall into stereotype. This is in regards to any minority stereotype, especially those who get commonly cast as henchmen or villains, or even anything that might be construed as "The Dumb One." Bow isn't the only black character on the show, but... there are a whole lot of white or white coded characters on that show...) Long story short: it seemed to be a genuine slip of the tongue. Was it racist? Possibly. Are people overreacting? Not my call. But it wasn't nothing, and for what it's worth, I believe Stevenson is handling things exactly as she should. If a creator takes it upon themselves to think a little bit more about what they say and are saying with their stories and characters, I... don't see how that's a bad thing? Like, at all?
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Aug 27, 2020 19:28
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I believe that the people angry are genuine and not bad faith, I just think they're dumb. Knowing the internet nobody will remember this in two weeks because it's so flimsy under even the slightest investigation.
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Aug 27, 2020 19:32
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She Ra was invented 50 years ago to sell barbies Which one is this from?
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Aug 27, 2020 20:03
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If you ask me the "pinocchio" audio commentary is a little too G-rated
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Aug 28, 2020 03:47
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FunkyAl posted:Which one is this from? 
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Aug 28, 2020 10:33
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FunkyAl posted:If you ask me the "pinocchio" audio commentary is a little too G-rated
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Aug 28, 2020 15:29
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The Disney film Pinocchio did not pay any royalties to the author since it had become public domain less than 57 years after its publication. 57 years from Pinocchio the films release is 1997, a year the film definitely entered public domain
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Aug 29, 2020 11:09
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fauna posted:the lovely heavy traffic, my absolute favourite entry in the bakshiverse Looks like I know what blu ray to buy next! Timeless Appeal posted:Pinnochio's hella bawdy. This, and they keep buttering everybody up and praising the technical achievement almost without acknowledging anything going on in the story at all. One upside of this commentary is discovering that, since I have had one conversation with Eric Goldberg, I am now one degree away from Leonard Maltin.
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Aug 29, 2020 15:57
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FunkyAl posted:This, and they keep buttering everybody up and praising the technical achievement almost without acknowledging anything going on in the story at all. But it also finds butts very funny and Jiminy Cricket loves winking at the audience and saying, "MAN! These kids sure are JACKASSES!" Not to say stuff isn't being ignored, but there legitimately are parallel tones that similar to The Muppet Movie don't undermine one another. I'm kind of curious about how the bawdniness evolves as it goes. I know it's still there by the sixties to some degree, but a lot of Fantasia and Bambi are so blatantly about sex that it's hard to not imagine a transition. Bambi in particular is straight up actually brutal with the big twist at the end that the Great Prince could've been like two as the most long living deer just like Bambi is when he takes his place.
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Aug 29, 2020 23:10
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still can't get over how much better the first how to train your dragon is than the other films
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Aug 30, 2020 09:24
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I’m gonna watch the CG animated Lupin movie tonight 
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Aug 30, 2020 09:42
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Lupin III The First is cool, it's like an Indiana Jones adventure. It feels like the Tin Tin movie but even wackier. There's a pretty hosed up scene where a henchman gets crushed to death by an ancient sonic trap 
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Aug 30, 2020 13:20
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I feel like we're talking about different things. Surely you're not referring to Disney's Pinocchio? How is that one bawdy?
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Aug 31, 2020 16:45
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It's extremely tame by our standards, but it would've been bawdy back then, one of the gags is Jiminy openly leering at the french puppets
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Aug 31, 2020 21:57
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I watched The Wind Rises as part of my ongoing effort to watch all of the Ghibli movies. I've seen around half of them, but I wanted to round it out. (They're all on HBO Max now, btw, in case anyone wants to do the same. ) Anyway, back to The Wind Rises:  This movie is gorgeous. Truly gorgeous. And the animation, holy poo poo the animation. There is so much time spent on animating what would otherwise be superfluous detail. In almost every scene there's some little thing animated that didn't really need to be animated. An item flexes a bit as pressure is applied. Specular highlights in a window. Refraction of light through a pair of glasses. A change in focus adding or removing a little detail. A gradual change in saturation or tone as a cloud passes by or a rainstorm begins. And so on, and so on, and so on. It's as if there was an artist, or team of artists, or rotating teams of artists, whose sole job was to simply flex on the competition. Some guy animates a guy walking down the street while a whole separate group is like "hey, while he's walking, let's animate every object in the scene as seen through a distorted reflection in the shop windows across the road while the view pans left." I genuinely can't tell if this is just Ghibli showing what they look like as a mature animation studio with access to 2013 technology, or if it's them pushing the envelope as a way to continue the film's journey of showing Japan's forward progress in technology. It's also a great, touching story that, like so many of my favorite works, lacks a concrete villain and is instead about the human condition as it pushes against an imperfect world. It may just be my new favorite Ghibli film. It's amazing.
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Aug 31, 2020 22:39
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paradoxGentleman posted:I feel like we're talking about different things. Surely you're not referring to Disney's Pinocchio? How is that one bawdy? There is also a lot of children smoking cigars in pool halls, which may not be "Bawdy" but certainly is a scene of children smoking cigars in pool halls
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Aug 31, 2020 23:47
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ConfusedUs posted:I watched The Wind Rises as part of my ongoing effort to watch all of the Ghibli movies. I've seen around half of them, but I wanted to round it out. At the time, this was meant to be Miyazaki’s final film before retirement, so it stands to reason he wanted to make it as sumptuous as possible. I’ve only seen it once, back when it came out, and while it’s definitely gorgeous, I felt the story was a little lacking.
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Sep 1, 2020 00:09
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Man I always forget how loving horny Jiminy Cricket is, who thought it was a good idea to make him a conscience, wasn't there a ladybug or an ant that could've done a better job outside the window
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Sep 1, 2020 00:38
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FunkyAl posted:There is also a lot of children smoking cigars in pool halls, which may not be "Bawdy" but certainly is a scene of children smoking cigars in pool halls It's not Fantasia which is like 70% Disney artists finally getting to show off all they learned at their nude modeling sessions and using the high-browness to justify drawing naked ladies or Bambi focuses in on Thumper's horny face. But it definitely has the adults more in mind than Snow White.
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Sep 1, 2020 00:48
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paradoxGentleman posted:Man I always forget how loving horny Jiminy Cricket is, who thought it was a good idea to make him a conscience, wasn't there a ladybug or an ant that could've done a better job outside the window In the book, the cricket was killed by Pinocchio and proceeded to haunt his wooden rear end to shame him into behaving
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Sep 1, 2020 01:10
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Timeless Appeal posted:There's also more butts from the kid being spanked to the can can dancer puppets flipping up their skirts. Snow white's still pretty adult but in a vague mythic, german expressionist way. It's full of death (and life).
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Sep 1, 2020 05:11
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Robindaybird posted:In the book, the cricket was killed by Pinocchio and proceeded to haunt his wooden rear end to shame him into behaving OH the book is an entirely different beast, no argument there. It was good of Disney to cut 90% of the preaching that goes on in it, as hilarious as it is to have Pinocchio scolded by every worm, parrot and squirrel he meets.
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Sep 1, 2020 07:17
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FunkyAl posted:Snow white's still pretty adult but in a vague mythic, german expressionist way. It's full of death (and life). A really great deal of Snow White is these extended bits that you could imagine being a short (Snow White cleans the house, the Dwarves have to wash up for dinner and have some fun, the Dwarves know someone has broken into their house and are deciding what to do). Pinocchio is a bit like this as well. They go underwater and the film stops to become a quick little funny short about fish; Let's just look at fun clocks for a bit. Pinocchio and Bambi have more of a narrative through-line about growing up that makes their stories a bit more cohesive. And Bambi stamped down on the studio's tendency to go on little tangents. I think with Snow White, you have some big swings, but the movie is doing a lot more to present traditionally Disney elements.
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Sep 1, 2020 13:51
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Bigtop burger is great and everyone should watch it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyCagepF_T4
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Sep 2, 2020 00:58
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Timeless Appeal posted:Pinocchio is a bit like this as well. They go underwater and the film stops to become a quick little funny short about fish; Let's just look at fun clocks for a bit. Pinocchio is extremely like this, it's very much 3 stories taped together. (I know that's because of the source material.) Stromboli's bit has nothing to do with Pleasure Island, and Pleasure Island has so little to do with the Monstro segment that they literally just have a magic bird drop a note on the main characters saying "while you were away, a bunch of stuff happened, go save Gepetto"
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Sep 2, 2020 01:20
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Pinocchio is basically a old school telltale episodic game.
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Sep 2, 2020 01:24
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Pixeltendo posted:Pinocchio is basically a old school telltale episodic game. half of it consists of "Jiminy Cricket disliked that." so this tracks
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Sep 2, 2020 01:26
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Sir Lemming posted:Pinocchio is extremely like this, it's very much 3 stories taped together. (I know that's because of the source material.) Stromboli's bit has nothing to do with Pleasure Island, and Pleasure Island has so little to do with the Monstro segment that they literally just have a magic bird drop a note on the main characters saying "while you were away, a bunch of stuff happened, go save Gepetto" Snow White just spends a shitton of time on cleaning a house or dwarves washing their hands. The actual story of Snow White is really simple. That striking fairy tale that FunkyAI is talking about is there. But a lot of it is also just the characters loving around.
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Sep 2, 2020 02:13
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This isn't really relevant to the discussion but the talk about Snow White reminded me of this brutal take on the dwarves I read:The Uses of Enchantment, Bruno Bettelheim posted:"Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs," the name by which the tale is now widely known, is a bowdlerization which unfortunately emphasizes the dwarfs, who, failing to develop into mature humanity, are permanently arrested on a pre-oedipal level (dwarfs have no parents, nor do they marry or have children) are are but foils to set off the important developments taking place in Snow White. I can't really think of the story now without being reminded of that.
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Sep 2, 2020 02:18
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Schwarzwald posted:I can't really think of the story now without being reminded of that. But yeah, when does Rose Red get her due?
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Sep 2, 2020 02:25
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Yeah but they're horny for Snow White who acts like their mother.
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Sep 2, 2020 04:21
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Timeless Appeal posted:Yeah, but like I said, there is a through-line. Pinocchio is easily distracted, duped, and kinda selfish in the first two segments you mention. And then in the third one, he finally realizes his actions have had major consequences not just on him, but Gepetto. The Monstro story is about him having to be brave, focused, and become a real boy by understanding what it means to love someone in contrast to the previous acts. I kinda like how a lot of the movie is basically just them messing around, hanging out and having fun. You don't see enough of that in media I think, seeing what the cast get up to when they're not under some dramatic situation or life/world-threatening crisis, aside maybe from an establishing shot.
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Sep 2, 2020 07:44
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The original book of Pinocchio is just a wonderful kind of anti-Candide of the main character being a huge shitlord and never learning from his mistakes
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Sep 2, 2020 12:50
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I kinda like how a lot of the movie is basically just them messing around, hanging out and having fun. You don't see enough of that in media I think, seeing what the cast get up to when they're not under some dramatic situation or life/world-threatening crisis, aside maybe from an establishing shot. I think part of it comes from the shorts where you get stuff like Mickey's Birthday where it has a loose premise and you just come up with stuff for the characters to do. But part of it also harkens to more leisurely paced musicals.
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Sep 2, 2020 19:45
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Timeless Appeal posted:I think part of it comes from the shorts where you get stuff like Mickey's Birthday where it has a loose premise and you just come up with stuff for the characters to do. But part of it also harkens to more leisurely paced musicals.
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Sep 2, 2020 20:58
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Neon Noodle posted:The original book of Pinocchio is just a wonderful kind of anti-Candide of the main character being a huge shitlord and never learning from his mistakes While it's true that Pinocchio is oftentimes a little poo poo, it must be said that the punishments he faces are not commesurate to the crimes he commits. An hungry kid reaching for some grapes in a field should not be collared and made to work as a watchdog and sleep in a kennel.
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Sep 2, 2020 22:27
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clearly we have different views on parenting
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Sep 3, 2020 02:35
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Timeless Appeal posted:Yeah, I think's it fine. I think my point is more that the Mirror, the poisoned apple, the run through the woods, and stuff like that is really striking, but a lot of the movie is not that. I'm reminded of that deliberately terrible christmas movie in the Simpsons which has a ridiculously long love ballad which was apparently not that far off actual bad musicals of the time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mug1B1hBt5k And hell, the trend's come back with modern cartoons where they run out of plot and fill the time with bad musical numbers. Though I don't think that ever really went away. And of course, back in the Golden Age many shorts were basically music videos.
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Sep 3, 2020 02:43
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