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Amy and Hermès own, who the hell doesn’t like their episodes? Hermès has the aforementioned Central Bureaucracy episode, the strangely sweet episode about Bender’s backstory, and the excellent b-plot pairings with Farnsworth in the paper route and Bender on TV episodes. Amy has really great episodes with Kif, the one where Fry is stitched to her shoulder, and she’s a good foil for Leela in some Leela-centric episodes. The whole Futurama main cast is great and I will die on this hill 
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Sep 8, 2020 06:24
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Amy is great because she's got the Mars connection, and the Mars episodes were pretty funny.
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Sep 8, 2020 06:35
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the first 5 episodes of Futurama: Space Pilot 3000, in which we follow Fry on NYE 1999 getting frozen and waking up to NYE 2999, he meets Leela and runs away because he doesn't want to be branded a delivery boy for the rest of his life. While on the run from Leela he meets a bending robot named Bender. By the end of the episode Leela has caught up with Fry and Bender and is convinced to reject her station and help Fry find his only living relative, Professor Farnsworth. Upon meeting him they are hired to be his new delivery crew, with Fry still being a delivery boy but it's a more glamourous title so he is fine with it, Leela is the captain of Planet Express Ship and Bender is the robot. The Series Has Landed, in which the rest of the PE regulars are introduced, Amy, the Professor's intern, she's from Mars, her family is rich, and she's clumsy. We meet Hermes, the official bureaucrat of Planet Express but we don't learn what that truly means until later, he is the office drone that dots the i's and crosses the t's. We meet Zoidberg, the company doctor, he's not a very good doctor and there is no functional explanation for why he works there. This episode is still largely based around Fry as a surrogate for the audience because for everyone born in the 30th century, going to the moon is as mundane as going to your local amusement park, but for Fry this has been a lifelong dream to step on the moon. However, we also learn that Bender has a really bad relationship with magnets, and we also learn that he is a lech. I, Roommate, in which Fry has to find an apartment to live in because his slobby ways are not conducive to a hospitable work environment and his living at the office is only making it worse. He moves in with Bender but needs more space than just a "broom closet" so they hunt for apartments. The one they settle on is perfect, except Bender's antenna causes interference and he is forced to miss a very special episode of All My Circuits as well as move out of the apartment. He goes through a crisis as Fry abandons him so he can watch tv, even going so far as to chop off his antenna just so he can live with his best friend. Leela chastises Fry and by the end of the episode they have come to terms and moved back to Bender's old apartment, with the reveal that the "closet" is a full bachelor suite. Love's Labours Lost in Space, in which Planet Express is tasked with saving all species on a planet that has been hollowed out from over mining. The actual overarching plot is Leela is frustrated that she can't seem to find a "normal" person to have a relationship with for various reasons. We are introduced to Zapp Brannigan and his frustrated first officer Kif. Leela is enamoured with him at first (and does end up sleeping with him) but later finds him to be an absolutely pathetic person and completely incompetent at everything. Upon finally getting to the planet and rescuing the animals, Leela finds an unknown animal and names it Nibbler. Fear of a Bot Planet, in which Bender is frustrated that robots get no respect and voices these frustrations every chance he can. Upon being given a delivery to the planet Chapek 9, an all bot planet, Bender is tasked with making the delivery as no humans are allowed on the planet. Bender initially refuses, claiming it is a robot holiday, Robonukkah. Fry and Leela decide to throw him a party for when he gets back to show he is appreciated but an emergency transmission from Bender has them going down to the planet in disguises to find Bender. The rest of the episode is basically just finding Bender and then getting off of the planet, in which the Robonukkah party happens and Bender points out he made it up to get out of work. 5 episodes, 3 of which are focused on Fry, 2 with a focus on Bender, 1 with a specific focus on Leela. However, we still learn something about each of these characters in each of the 5 episodes and by the conclusion of Fear of a Bot Planet we can definitively state things about the main trio, or guess their motivations going forward because we know enough about them. My point beforehand is that I'm not getting that so far in Lower Decks, I am enjoying what I am seeing but it is lacking and I'm disappointed that the show is not allowing 2-3 out of the 4 main characters to have the spotlight so we can learn who they are and what is driving their motivations and decisions outside of "the plot says these characters must do x and then do y". It just feels hollow right now, but if that changes in the back half then that's awesome
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Sep 8, 2020 07:54
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Mal-3 posted:Treknology nerds Trekyards scored an interview with LDS showrunner Mike McMahan, asking a bunch of questions about the Cerritos: I loving knew it was based off the janky-rear end Cerritos Auto Square. It's synonymous in my LA-born brain as "Used Car Junkyard."
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Sep 8, 2020 08:02
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The idea that the showrunner gives a poo poo about shuttle bays and "special abilities" of a show-specific class of ship is exactly why this show is true classic Trek. Also, for what it's worth, the company that did the VBros (RIP) tshirts, is doing a similar episode-specific line of shirts this season. 
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Sep 8, 2020 08:18
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FlamingLiberal posted:It's also a lot harder when your season is only 10 episodes instead of the 20 something that Futurama had mllaneza posted:Mariner is by far the most interesting and engaging character. mllaneza posted:The obvious solution to achieve balance between the characters is to put Mariner in he background and develop Tendi and Rutherford for a couple of episodes. CharlestheHammer posted:I’m now imagining people complaining their aren’t enough episodes focusing on Amy and Hermès and it’s kind of funny The obvious parallel is Tendi. In episode one she's introduced as having just arrived on the ship, so it would make perfect sense for us to get everything from her perspective. Instead we mostly follow Mariner, but we don't get anything from her perspective because she has a whole past we know nothing about and a whole lot of information we don't have. It's a bizarre decision and makes for a frustrating experience.
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Sep 8, 2020 08:19
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Huh, so there's something on the saucer which has something to do with the special gimmick of the Cerritos akin to Voyager landing or the D separating. I wonder if it has to do with the weird little insets on the saucer that look like, I dunno, clamp points or something. Or maybe the dark grey section can just slide off the ship. EDIT eeee blueprints. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 08:57 on Sep 8, 2020 |
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Sep 8, 2020 08:31
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mllaneza posted:It's a structural issue. Mariner is by far the most interesting and engaging character. If the writers need a character to advance an A-plot, she's the natural choice. They've obviously already decided on the pairings they;'re going to go with most of the time, so Mariner usually drags Boimler along. The obvious solution to achieve balance between the characters is to put Mariner in he background and develop Tendi and Rutherford for a couple of episodes. Mariner is not interesting at all, she's currently totally 1 dimensional. The thing is that Mariner's one character trait is that she's assertive and doesn't follow any rules, which makes it trivial to write her into any situation you want. And then the rules of Lower Decks are that Mariner can't suffer any consequences for her actions, so it's trivial to write her out of any situation you want.
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Sep 8, 2020 08:46
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edit: removed original post, wrong thread I feel like I'm in the minority because I didn't like the last episode much at all. But I think that's just because I hate those "friend tries to ruin relationship" plots.
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Sep 8, 2020 08:49
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Oh hey speaking of ship types and references, check out the ship they discover in the upcoming:  Appropriately enough, the uncrewed ones first turned up in TAS. (then the crewed variant was added in the TOS remaster) 
MikeJF fucked around with this message at 11:44 on Sep 8, 2020 |
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Sep 8, 2020 11:42
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I think it's great that LD's showrunner takes the attitude of "gently caress you, TAS is canon, and I'm going to cram in as many things from it as I can!"
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Sep 8, 2020 14:58
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Aces High posted:if there was one thing that would be nice would be to maybe pull back a bit of Mariner's manic energy I agree. I think her character should act a bit more 'over it all' and too cool for school. That way, it would be a lot funnier when she DOES go manic. As it is now, she's always turned up to 11. Maybe she's on space adderall. Regarding the Cerritos, McMahan said in one of those interviews that the Cerritos has a unique thing it does, like the Enterprise had 'saucer separation' and Voyager had 'landing gear.' I bet the engineering pod detaches with those long warp nacelles, leaving the saucer section with only nacelle tips. Not sure why that would be the case, maybe for towing? But looking at the lines on the nacelles it's the first thing that came to mind.
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Sep 8, 2020 15:29
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ashpanash posted:I agree. I think her character should act a bit more 'over it all' and too cool for school. That way, it would be a lot funnier when she DOES go manic. As it is now, she's always turned up to 11. Maybe she's on space adderall. Hard disagree, here. I'm just really sick of modern ennui. It's nice to see characters that are just spazzy and enthusiastic all the time. I think we need more of that.
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Sep 8, 2020 15:53
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What if Michael Burnham but Tilly?
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Sep 8, 2020 15:58
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What if Leslie Knope but also somehow Ron Swanson?
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Sep 8, 2020 16:01
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There's more thought put into the starships of this show than has been put into any aspect of discovery or picard. I also particularly love the idea of the california class starships and the reasoning behind using them for their jokey star trek show was a wise idea. Can't wait to see the U.S.S. Fresno where everyone is addicted to space meth.
G-III fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Sep 8, 2020 |
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Sep 8, 2020 16:06
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MadJackal posted:Also, for what it's worth, the company that did the VBros (RIP) tshirts, is doing a similar episode-specific line of shirts this season. Oh I love the Second Contact one! We needed this news sooner!
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Sep 8, 2020 16:32
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Aces High posted:We are already halfway through the first season and I feel that the only character that we really know anything about is Mariner, any other information about Tendi, Rutherford, or Boimler is set dressing and, in a way, isn't anything beyond surface level. CharlestheHammer posted:I feel like people are expecting much. Hell someone brought up futurama earlier and you barely know anything about the characters. Most of their backstories outside Fry don’t happen until the backend of the original run. This is a real dumb take because back story isn't character, at best it might inform character and Futurama is an excellent example of setting up characters in the first episode and telling the audience a whole ton about them quickly and efficiently. By the end of it we know a whole bunch about what motivates Fry, Leela and Bender and what they're afraid of and what their goals in life are at that point in their life. We learn that Fry was always upbeat and trusting but was still disappointed in the way his life was going and is super excited to go into space (which he could previously only do in video games) and is determined to start over and escape his disappointing past, but at the same time too dumb to realise that he's still limited by his idiocy. During the first ep he first gets Bender and then Leela to talk about what's holding them back (Bender's depression, lack of friends and inability to surpass his programming, Leela's inability to empathize with anyone else and dependence on her job for her sense of self) and inadvertently helps them move past all those limitations, which establishes A) their characters and B) their relationship to Fry. The following episodes really dial in those character traits and their inter-relationships even harder. In Lower Decks ep 1 we barely got any of that (what is Mariner afraid of? What are her motivations? How does she relate to Rutherford or the other main characters on an emotional level?) so it makes it a whole lot harder to empathize with the characters as they're presented and invest in them and their stories. It's lovely writing. Also note that the first episode of Futurama was two minutes shorter than the first episode of Lower Decks but still managed to achieve way way more.  Tiggum posted:The obvious parallel is Tendi. In episode one she's introduced as having just arrived on the ship, so it would make perfect sense for us to get everything from her perspective. Instead we mostly follow Mariner, but we don't get anything from her perspective because she has a whole past we know nothing about and a whole lot of information we don't have. It's a bizarre decision and makes for a frustrating experience. Introducing a character who's new to the setting as a POV stand-in for the audience is one of the oldest literary tricks in the book but Lower Decks absolutely wasted it. You don't have to use the new character as an audience POV stand-in but why the gently caress would they go to the effort of "introducing" a new crew member at the start of the first episode if they're just going to squander the opportunity?
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Sep 8, 2020 17:55
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I think Mariner’s decently characterized, they just don’t rub your face in it. Little things like helping the farmers who need it faster than Federation bureaucracy can provide, that shows us that she’s dedicated to doing the right thing while not caring about doing the proper thing. Her engaging in smuggling and petty theft reinforces her disregard for rules, while also showing us that she’s something of a hedonist; she likes booze and stuff. However her scoffing at the higher quality stuff that the officers get shows us that her rebelliousness supersedes that hedonism. Also, hating the solitary quarters she gets when she’s promoted shows us that she feels the need to be around people. She’s lonely. The show just doesn’t really prioritize getting those things across as explicitly as it might. Which is fine.
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Sep 8, 2020 18:06
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Phylodox posted:Little things like helping the farmers who need it faster than Federation bureaucracy can provide, that shows us that she’s dedicated to doing the right thing while not caring about doing the proper thing. She doesn't care about doing the right thing, though. There's a bunch of examples where she does the wrong thing because she's bored or rushing or just doesn't care, so even if they do show an aspect of her personality they're never consistent with it. Sometimes she cares about others, most of the time she doesn't.
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Sep 8, 2020 18:18
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Also note that the first episode of Futurama was two minutes shorter than the first episode of Lower Decks but still managed to achieve way way more. If your point is that Futurama was better written from the start than Lower Decks, I don't think you'll find anyone who disagrees with you. I think most people are saying "it's a little rough, but at least it's not poo poo!" Which most people had expected from CBS at this point. I thought it might be better because of McMahon's involvement, but I do agree that the writing isn't as sharp as Futurama or Rick and Morty. Probably because there aren't a bunch of Harvard Lampoon writers in the room or Dan Harmon rewriting every script.
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Sep 8, 2020 18:22
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:There's a bunch of examples where she does the wrong thing because she's bored or rushing or just doesn't care, so even if they do show an aspect of her personality they're never consistent with it. Which examples? There are times she did the incorrect thing, maybe, but I don’t remember her ever being shown as actively immoral or malicious.
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Sep 8, 2020 18:27
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Brawnfire posted:Amy is great because she's got the Mars connection, and the Mars episodes were pretty funny. "We aren't so rich !" "Yeah, what sorority did you belong to ?" "Kappa Kappa Wong
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Sep 8, 2020 18:50
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Also the starving farmers plotline doesn't even make sense because when they're driving back to camp they pass a whole bunch of fields of crops farming is going just swell on this planet wtf Also Mariner should have just given them the lovely old replicator that Boimler was repairing earlier in the episode (revealing that they love eating hot bananas or something) Also if she was smuggling special farm tools onto the planet they should have been in the crate of "contraband" she was smuggling onto the ship right at the start of the episode which would have tied everything together arfjgtbjkBHJBHKJLN>HJH Phylodox posted:Which examples? There are times she did the incorrect thing, maybe, but I don’t remember her ever being shown as actively immoral or malicious. Just off the top of my head, at the start of ep 2 she beats the poo poo out of a wandering energy being for her own personal gain (forces it to make a fancy tricorder) and then releases it without alerting security, which is both immoral and malicious. She does poo poo like that constantly.
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Sep 8, 2020 18:52
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Giving Disco S2 another shot, and dear god hold the loving camera still. There's a scene of Pike and Saru in the lift and the camera just lazily rotates from about 10 o'clock to 2 for seemingly no reason. Farscape had great wobbly camera work, all swooping and dodging as the characters run frantically through the twisted bowels of a living ship. Totally makes sense there. Disco does a dutch for such dramatic scenes as "man walks out of office"
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Sep 8, 2020 19:01
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The Battlefield Earth School of Cinematography.
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Sep 8, 2020 19:04
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Just off the top of my head, at the start of ep 2 she beats the poo poo out of a wandering energy being for her own personal gain (forces it to make a fancy tricorder) and then releases it without alerting security, which is both immoral and malicious. She does poo poo like that constantly. I'm pretty sure, in that case, it threatened the two of them beforehand? loving Janeway would do worse for looking at her the wrong way. Strom Cuzewon posted:Giving Disco S2 another shot, and dear god hold the loving camera still. There's a scene of Pike and Saru in the lift and the camera just lazily rotates from about 10 o'clock to 2 for seemingly no reason. I know what you mean about the camerawork, but I actually liked that scene, and I thought the camerawork there actually added to it. I read the dialog in the scene as being something of a proxy conversation, almost an admission of guilt, between the new Star Trek show and the fans. Saru (New Star Trek) saying "yeah, we do things differently now" and Pike (the fans of older Star Trek) saying "ok, I get it, but calm down a bit and make it more rare." And the camerawork added to the 'magical realism' bit of breaking the fourth wall. I thought it was kind of inspired. It's a pity that there is so little writing that is that good in most of the rest of the show. And it's also a pity that the camera is so wonky in general, as you say, that the scene in question struck people as "more of the same, just pushed to 11" instead of "unique and different." That's my take on it, anyway. ashpanash fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Sep 8, 2020 |
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Sep 8, 2020 19:10
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Also the starving farmers plotline doesn't even make sense because when they're driving back to camp they pass a whole bunch of fields of crops farming is going just swell on this planet wtf Farming is going swell on earth right now, too, but that doesn't mean you can't find poor or starving farmers.
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Sep 8, 2020 19:16
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NARRATOR: Farming was not going swell.
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Sep 8, 2020 19:19
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Also, shovels and the like aren't contraband. She was just handing them out without doing the proper paperwork because presumably those particular farmers could really use them ASAP and in her estimation it would take too long to go through the bureaucracy for what could be a quick and simple job of just giving them the dang shovels.
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Sep 8, 2020 19:19
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TomR posted:presumably those particular farmers could really use them ASAP ASAP in this case being "more than a year later" because she met them when she worked on her previous ship. It's a lovely dumb plotline which doesn't make any sense. And it could have easily made sense if they'd given it a few minutes extra thought and developed it from what I guess was the first idea they came up with, but I guess they didn't give even that much of a drat TomR posted:Also, shovels and the like aren't contraband. If she wasn't supposed to be giving them to the farmers then they're contraband, that's what the word means you dummy Snowglobe of Doom fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Sep 8, 2020 |
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Sep 8, 2020 19:35
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:ASAP in this case being "more than a year later" because she met them when she worked on her previous ship. We don't know what she did a year ago. Maybe she gave them enough stuff to hold themselves over. The problem is that you're looking for problems where there really aren't any. Mariner helping the farmers isn't the main plot of the episode, so it's given exactly as much depth and explanation as it warrants. It's a vehicle for a bit of quick character exposition; Boimler thinks Mariner is doing something shifty, it turns out she is, but it's actually pretty philanthropic and altruistic. That's the point. All of the details you're getting caught up on are ancillary and unimportant. And yeah, she exploited the megalomaniacal energy despot to get a new tricorder, thus also rendering said energy being harmless. That's a total departure from her character so far, and totally immoral and malicious. 
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Sep 8, 2020 20:01
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:If she wasn't supposed to be giving them to the farmers then they're contraband, that's what the word means you dummy You're right, that's why she should have had the shovels in her crate of alien hooch and weapons! It makes so much more sense that way! How silly of me. I really should learn to watch cartoons better.
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Sep 8, 2020 20:11
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Take your hate and direct it here instead of at Lower Decks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70dm3WzNuss Trailers can be deceiving...but it looks like the worst thing I'll watch every episode of this year.
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Sep 8, 2020 20:56
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ashpanash posted:Take your hate and direct it here instead of at Lower Decks: It looks completely fine. If anything this trailer looks better than the last few tidbits we’ve gotten about the season. Also it seems Saru is officially the new captain based on his uniform.
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Sep 8, 2020 21:05
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Big Mean Jerk posted:
I won't deny that the past is coloring my perceptions. And, as I acknowledged, trailers can be deceiving. I'll hope for the best, but my expectations are pretty low. Just being honest. I'm still going to be watching it. I'll give it this - I've lasted longer with Discovery than I have with Voyager. (odd episode here and there notwithstanding). quote:Also it seems Saru is officially the new captain based on his uniform. That'd be the decision I make, it's really interesting to have a captain be an alien. That's something new (and how progressive! /s) But I still expect them to but Burnham in there as captain instead. I guess we'll see!
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Sep 8, 2020 21:16
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ashpanash posted:Take your hate and direct it here instead of at Lower Decks: This looks great to me. I'm really excited.
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Sep 8, 2020 21:18
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Everything about Mariner's characterisation tells us she should not want to be in Starfleet.
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Sep 8, 2020 21:19
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Alchenar posted:Everything about Mariner's characterisation tells us she should not want to be in Starfleet. Right? I can only imagine (and, I guess, hope) they're holding back on some story tidbit about that because it doesn't make a whole lot of sense at this point.
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Sep 8, 2020 21:20
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Of course that's geoblocked. Temporary non-US link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYR4-jkoxtY I have a suspicion that Disco and Michael didn't all emerge at the same spot temporally. I'm imagining months apart.
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Sep 8, 2020 21:21
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