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V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

though i must say if your argument hinges on 'austerity never happened', that does need some more work to make it credible imo

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Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Cingulate posted:

GABA ghoul's the only one who has posted any data here, right?

I can only refer to books by their titles, anything else would be :filez:, since ironically enough we do not live in full gay space luxury communism, but in a capitalist cyberpunk dystopia.

Junior G-man
Sep 15, 2004

Wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma


LMFAO they made Dombrovskis the new Trade Commissioner, so that the Irish lose that portfolio but gain ... financial services. Which is not at all like putting the fox into the henhouse.

quote:

European Commission Executive Vice President Valdis Dombrovskis will be the EU’s new trade commissioner and Mairead McGuinness will be the new Irish commissioner with responsibility for financial services, Commission President Ursula von der Leyen announced today.

Dombrovsksis, who has served as acting trade commissioner since the resignation of Phil Hogan last month, will relinquish some of the current responsibilities in his broad economic portfolio, putting McGuinness, a veteran member of the European Parliament, in charge of financial services and financial stability.

The selection of Dombrovsksis, a former Latvian prime minister, puts responsibility for EU trade policy in the hands of one of the Commission’s most seasoned and well-respected officials, and it keeps the trade portfolio under the control of the center-right European People’s Party — von der Leyen’s own political family.

Cingulate
Oct 23, 2012

by Fluffdaddy

V. Illych L. posted:

globalisation hasn't reversed unless you're looking exclusively at aggregate direct foreign investment? actual production is more internationalised than ever, per international tonnage:
https://unctad.org/en/PublicationsLibrary/rmt2019_en.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjnk6qyjNnrAhWMl4sKHSJ-BO0QFjANegQIGBAI&usg=AOvVaw0KubuysqTReDv_KYHJpmdf

moreover, even direct investment has mostly dropped off *between richer countries*. DFI in the poorest countries continues mostly apace:
https://unctad.org/en/pages/newsdetails.aspx?OriginalVersionID=2118

this further indicates that the actual production of things keeps being moved around, and that the race to the bottom is very real. even if it didn't, though, it wouldn't necessarily mean that the trend was meaningfully reversed, it could easily just be a new normal where countries haven't dared increase the cost of doing business for the past several years, an observation borne out by the basically stagnant median real wage in the EU for the past decade or so, and the lack of any really serious anti-business legislation, including wrt the environment.

so no lol it's not contradicted by 'basic observable reality' it's contradicted by a rather strained definition of globalisation and a simultaneously naive interpretation of the data

now, i'm sure you're going to find another interpretation which lets you keep believing what you're believing, because that's the nature of 'knowledge-driven' discussion of this sort and why it's largely pointless. data of this sort is always ambiguous enough to be twisted into almost any narrative you want it to be according to one's ideological framework, and is thus mainly useful as rhetorical framing for a predetermined position in a context like this
Yes. Billions being lifted out of poverty and illiteracy might not look like a bad thing, but on gooncialism, it does!

Cingulate fucked around with this message at 09:29 on Sep 8, 2020

mortons stork
Oct 13, 2012

Cingulate posted:

GABA ghoul's the only one who has posted any data here, right?

Worthless data, but data nonetheless, right? Excellent good faith poo poo, friend.

https://gateway.euro.who.int/en/indicators/hfa_478-5060-acute-care-hospital-beds-per-100-000/

https://programmazionesanitaria.it/_progsan/2018/SSN40-Rapporto.pdf

https://www.hope.be/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/2018_Hospitals-in-EU-28-Synthesis-final-for-publication-002.pdf

A bunch of data showing decreases in actual resources.

Just a couple examples off the top of my head. Of course, you don't actually care about any of this poo poo. I'm just posting it for other readers.

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

Cingulate posted:

Yes. Billions being lifted out of poverty and illiteracy might not look like a bad thing, but on gooncialism, it does!

see, this sort of basic failure of contextual literacy is why i don't bother to take cingulate seriously, thanks for the excellent case in point

mortons stork
Oct 13, 2012
https://www.jasonhickel.org/blog/2019/2/3/pinker-and-global-poverty

More useful data deconstructing the 'millions lifted out of poverty' bullshit

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

actually my favourite was when he completely misrepresented another poster's position because he didn't know poo poo about what the other guy was talking about, but by jove he wasn't going to be so gauche as to look poo poo up!

Honest Thief
Jan 11, 2009
i think it's called trolling and it's been a bunch of pages not worth reading

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

V. Illych L. posted:

actually my favourite was when he completely misrepresented another poster's position because he didn't know poo poo about what the other guy was talking about, but by jove he wasn't going to be so gauche as to look poo poo up!

To be fair, it was a good springboard to 'what about Mao'-rhetoric, which then went on for like what, 2 pages?

mortons stork
Oct 13, 2012
It is nonsensical to me that we have had 20 years for global capital to prove right each and every claim that the no-globals were making, with western capital running roughshod over the global south's poor and environment, while still all this time attempting to erode the social compact even here in the imperial center and funneling out wealth to tax havens at unprecedented rates, and people still are willing to go to bat for it.

Cat Mattress
Jul 14, 2012

by Cyrano4747

Junior G-man posted:

LMFAO they made Dombrovskis the new Trade Commissioner, so that the Irish lose that portfolio but gain ... financial services. Which is not at all like putting the fox into the henhouse.

gently caress.

Cingulate posted:

Yes. Billions being lifted out of poverty and illiteracy might not look like a bad thing, but on gooncialism, it does!

"If you oppose the race to the bottom that is despoiling southern countries, then you are a racist! Checkmate, gooncialist."

mortons stork
Oct 13, 2012

Junior G-man posted:

LMFAO they made Dombrovskis the new Trade Commissioner, so that the Irish lose that portfolio but gain ... financial services. Which is not at all like putting the fox into the henhouse.

I'm sure this'll be the time Europe has learned its lessons and will better regulate financial markets, is the joke Italian liberals have been telling me ever since vDL was made head of the Commission

SplitSoul
Dec 31, 2000

Zombiepop posted:

Are you even european? Do you read the papers? What are you trying to prove here?

Cost goes up = service expanded or what? Cause thats dumb as hell.

I don't know exactly where Denmark would be on that chart, but one way to get skyrocketing costs is for the state to institute treatment guarantees which the starved public healthcare sector can't possibly meet, then wildly overpay private hospitals to pick up the slack. Which is exactly what happened a few years ago. And private health insurance has exploded in popularity for much the same reason.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised.
It's been decades and liberals still literally cannot recognise 'starve the beast' in action. I suppose it's that whole thing about it being impossible to convince someone of a thing they're paid not to.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

Honest Thief posted:

i think it's called trolling and it's been a bunch of pages not worth reading
Say what you will about Gaussian Copula, at least he had an ethos.

Zombiepop
Mar 30, 2010

SplitSoul posted:

I don't know exactly where Denmark would be on that chart, but one way to get skyrocketing costs is for the state to institute treatment guarantees which the starved public healthcare sector can't possibly meet, then wildly overpay private hospitals to pick up the slack. Which is exactly what happened a few years ago. And private health insurance has exploded in popularity for much the same reason.

Same in sweden. Also the percentage of people who have to wait more than 90 days to get their help rose from 12 to 26% 2013-2017 despite all the money being put towards healthcare.. Hmmm...

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
Maybe we just shouldn't have Germans in the EU

thread.

oliwan
Jul 20, 2005

by Nyc_Tattoo

Orange Devil posted:

Maybe we just shouldn't have Germans in the EU

thread.

:hmmyes:

mortons stork
Oct 13, 2012

SplitSoul posted:

I don't know exactly where Denmark would be on that chart, but one way to get skyrocketing costs is for the state to institute treatment guarantees which the starved public healthcare sector can't possibly meet, then wildly overpay private hospitals to pick up the slack. Which is exactly what happened a few years ago. And private health insurance has exploded in popularity for much the same reason.

This is also a lot of what happens over here. Public structures are closed down and they offload patients to private structures on contractual basis (publicly conventioned service, they call it), which is to say essentially public money disappears into a black hole and service is worse in every way and more difficult to access.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

paradoxGentleman posted:

I want to make sure I know what I'm talking about when talking about these things, because I just know that if I am called to defend a socialist take on society I will have to, so please forgive me for asking, but:
The camps are the workcamps in East Asia whose cheap labor builds what we use to keep the capitalist machine grinding.
Not sure about the genocides.
The animals is easy: pollution caused by industries that prioritize profit over ecosustainabality and safety (that in fact have to do that in order to stay competetive) pollute so much that animals are going extinct.
Not sure about the torture.
The authoritarian leaders are the ones that can only reasonably get elected if they're rich already, and thus will only ever do the interests of the rich.

What am I missing?

Maybe the camps are the concentration camps countries like the US and Australia keep refugees and migrants in.
Perhaps the genocides are those against the indigenous peoples all over the Americas and Australia, which are still ongoing and regularly make the news when people need to go to make room for an oil pipeline, or a mine or further deforestation of the rainforest to generate sweet profit.
The animal extinctions I won’t even elaborate.
The torture might be Guantanamo Bay, which remains open.
Or it is the Western puppet dictators and absolute monarchs all over the Middle East and Africa, who ensure their countries can be looted of raw materials and resources in exchange for political cover when dissidents disappear and/or are tortured.

Maybe somehow all of these things are related to one another somehow. Maybe people try to stand up to authoritarian leaders allowing their resources to be plundered and their ecosystems to be destroyed, and then get murdered and tortured for it, and then try to flee.

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

If I were to consider moving to Germany (or some other stable EU country) a year or two after the vaccines arrive, how much harder would I expect the process to be (as skilled tech labor) compared to, say, Canada or New Zealand?

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

Grouchio posted:

If I were to consider moving to Germany (or some other stable EU country) a year or two after the vaccines arrive, how much harder would I expect the process to be (as skilled tech labor) compared to, say, Canada or New Zealand?
How are your fax skills?

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

A Buttery Pastry posted:

How are your fax skills?
I don't use a fax machine if that's what you're asking.

Private Speech
Mar 30, 2011

I HAVE EVEN MORE WORTHLESS BEANIE BABIES IN MY COLLECTION THAN I HAVE WORTHLESS POSTS IN THE BEANIE BABY THREAD YET I STILL HAVE THE TEMERITY TO CRITICIZE OTHERS' COLLECTIONS

IF YOU SEE ME TALKING ABOUT BEANIE BABIES, PLEASE TELL ME TO

EAT. SHIT.


It depends on the country, for some it's easy, for some harder. There's a schengen minimum of sorts that's required but that's fairly strict.

e: If you were from some exceedingly poor country like Cambodia or whatever, then I know for a fact Czechia has a very simple system - you go to a government website which has a database for jobs that companies indicated are open for foreigners (there's a fair few jobs of all sorts on there), you apply, you get it or not (for programming you have ones that underpay which I imagine are automatic, and ones that pay the going rate or above - so like $32k or whatever - that may or may not take you), you pay about 20 dollars and get a paper showing you don't have a criminal history, you get in. There's also another program for if you have a degree and get paid more than twice the median wage, which applies to all jobs, but the thing is that most employers wanting to hire foreigners probably already put them on the website. But you can have a look at internet ads that are in english either way. I imagine it's mostly a level of interest sort of thing it would be harder for someplace like Germany.

e2: Here's the database for interest, it has 269 000 positions open right now (for a country with population of 10 million, YMMV). They seem to have made it shittier sometime in the last year, used to be all in english but with fewer jobs (~50k or so), looks like they merged it with the national system already in place for unemployed people. Which means there may be more dross, but also even more jobs that are open. There's only like 320k open positions if you remove the foreigner filter, so it's pretty much all of them. That said there's a lot of tech jobs in particular that are not on there at all, and instead on indeed or monster or jobs.cz or whatever. You still might be able to get your prospective employer to put it on the database if you contact them, it's mostly an administrative barrier to check if the jobs are legitimate.

Private Speech fucked around with this message at 09:41 on Sep 9, 2020

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

Grouchio posted:

I don't use a fax machine if that's what you're asking.
Then you’re not skilled tech labor in Germany.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

A Buttery Pastry posted:

Then you’re not skilled tech labor in Germany.

Are you confusing Germany and Japan?

Andrast
Apr 21, 2010


mobby_6kl posted:

Are you confusing Germany and Japan?

basically the same thing

Honest Thief
Jan 11, 2009

A Buttery Pastry posted:

How are your fax skills?

i OWN a fax machine, well my mom does but guess who they call to fix the paper jam :smug:

Cingulate
Oct 23, 2012

by Fluffdaddy
Ive called fax machines a few times from my iPhone, always taking me a while listening to strange alien noises to realize what I did, does that count

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer

mobby_6kl posted:

Are you confusing Germany and Japan?

They're both faxis powers

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

Osmosisch posted:

They're both faxis powers

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised.
Germany and Japan may have the same thing going where they put out an image of being a prosperous idyllic future land of efficiency and advanced technology but are actually stagnant neoliberal swamps run by stodgy senile old fucks and boomers who are even worse and no one under 50 is allowed to do anything relevant

Honj Steak
May 31, 2013

Hi there.

Ghost Leviathan posted:

Germany and Japan may have the same thing going where they put out an image of being a prosperous idyllic future land of efficiency and advanced technology but are actually stagnant neoliberal swamps run by stodgy senile old fucks and boomers who are even worse and no one under 50 is allowed to do anything relevant

Both can be true at the same time. Both Germany and Japan are so dominant in classical high-tech sectors that they didn't feel the need to innovate in more modern technologies as much as some other countries did.

Lord Stimperor
Jun 13, 2018

I'm a lovable meme.

Orange Devil posted:

Maybe we just shouldn't have Germans in the EU

thread.

This is correct, can't wait to have VVD be in charge of Europe

Lord Stimperor
Jun 13, 2018

I'm a lovable meme.

Fax don't care about your feelings

mortons stork
Oct 13, 2012

Lord Stimperor posted:

Fax don't care about your feelings

Oh my God

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

Honj Steak posted:

Both can be true at the same time. Both Germany and Japan are so dominant in classical high-tech sectors that they didn't feel the need to innovate in more modern technologies as much as some other countries did.
Incidentally, that's a repeat of Germany becoming high-tech compared to the UK back in the day. Makes me wonder if there was a country known for just sticking to telegrams while everyone else was calling people on the phone?

Still nuts to me that 70% of respondents in Germany (in 2017) said they use the fax often or very often in their business, rising to near 80% for smaller businesses.

Private Speech
Mar 30, 2011

I HAVE EVEN MORE WORTHLESS BEANIE BABIES IN MY COLLECTION THAN I HAVE WORTHLESS POSTS IN THE BEANIE BABY THREAD YET I STILL HAVE THE TEMERITY TO CRITICIZE OTHERS' COLLECTIONS

IF YOU SEE ME TALKING ABOUT BEANIE BABIES, PLEASE TELL ME TO

EAT. SHIT.


I've lived and worked in several different countries as a (mostly) functional adult and I've never even seen a fax machine, much less used one.

Granted none of them has been Germany or Japan.

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Cingulate
Oct 23, 2012

by Fluffdaddy

Private Speech posted:

I've lived and worked in several different countries as a (mostly) functional adult and I've never even seen a fax machine, much less used one.

Granted none of them has been Germany or Japan.
Have you seen a balcony and/or blackboard

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