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Does this seem decent for Ruric Thar? I'm shooting for under $400 https://www.moxfield.com/decks/n5cx0QIAjEKU6ouC1HNgCw
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Sep 9, 2020 12:12
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3-mana dorks are bad, and Immolation Shaman has never done anything for me in testing. I would at least run Nature’s Claim and Triumph of the Hordes, even understanding low spell count because of your commander.
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Sep 9, 2020 13:24
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Big Centipede posted:Does this seem decent for Ruric Thar? I'm shooting for under $400 This deck looks okay. Here is a pile of thoughts: For that budget you can probably replace Khenra Charioteer with Nylea, God of the Hunt and gain some upside. Do you have enough red stuff to make use of Fiery Emancipation AND Torbran? The hits you have are good but the deck is still mostly green. For that reason, I might suggest removing the Stonecoil Serpent for something red unless I'm missing something. You're kinda light on draw. (I counted 4 or 5?) Maybe Return of the Wildspeaker would fit in, since you have very few humans. You could do Soul of the Harvest or Keeper of Fables? Those are really more a way to restock than to smooth out early draws, but I don't think I want to suggest something like Thrill of Possibility or Elvish Visionary for this specific deck. On a similar note, Sakura-Tribe Scout isn't going to do much good unless you can draw cards to get additional lands... but if you insist on keeping it, at least change over to Skyshroud Ranger for additional elf synergy. You could do the same for Zur-Ta Druid and replace it with Quirion Elves. (Yes I know it combos with Torbran, but christ that is aiming low. 3 damage to each opponent every time around? Big whoop. There's no untap strats in the deck anyway, unless I missed it. I think you might still want some non-creature ramp, but I understand why you're avoiding it. You don't want to get bopped by Ruric or Thar. But you have multiple land only doublers, and land ramp is just better than creatures due to them being less likely to get killed. So, I suggest you could run ramp that has Cycling: (Krosan Tusker, Edge of Autumn, Migration Path, and Beneath the Sands). Among those, I feel Edge of Autumn is quite underrated and I think you should play Migration path instead of Skyshroud Claim. Like, the upside on Skyshroud Claim of getting non-basics is normally pretty important, but you only have one real dual to grab anyway, so get the cycling instead. Or, of course, just regular old Wood Elves. Ask yourself honestly: can I defend the monarch? It's not a control deck, there's not much reach. You can probably take it back most of the time, but that basically means you're playing a howling mine. It's a decent enough card and fun, but it could be stone dead in the wrong circumstances. You should probably run Blasphemous Act or some sort of wrath. Maybe this deck can get away with Disaster Radius instead? If you really want it to be a creature, there's always Bloodfire Colossus, but I think you want at least some form of sweeper. And Bust is right, add Triumph if you're going to do the infect thing. (How does Bloodfire Colossus interact with Grafted Exoskeleton? Asking for a friend.)
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Sep 9, 2020 20:50
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Emancipation doesn’t care about color and besides it’s basically a combo with Ruric Thar (who also has reach). I play Ruric Thar in one of my cEDH decks, and he just wants protection and babysitting while he wins the game for you. Even Veil of Summer might be worth considering if you aren’t running it.
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Sep 9, 2020 22:34
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Keen Sense and/or Snake Umbra could draw you a lot of cards on Ruric Thar. Klothys seems like a decent ramp option, as well.
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Sep 9, 2020 23:17
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Bust Rodd posted:Emancipation doesn’t care about color and besides it’s basically a combo with Ruric Thar (who also has reach). Double-whammy on my reading comprehension there.
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Sep 9, 2020 23:37
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various Fight enablers do a poo poo-ton of creature-removal work in a deck with plenty of huge creatures
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Sep 10, 2020 01:31
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yeah Gargos is a fun deck
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Sep 10, 2020 02:19
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Magnetic North posted:You should probably run Blasphemous Act or some sort of wrath. Maybe this deck can get away with Disaster Radius instead? If you really want it to be a creature, there's always Bloodfire Colossus, but I think you want at least some form of sweeper. i like ashling as a red creature-shaped boardwipe as for grafted exoskeleton on a bloodfire colossus, i don't think it works: you sac him as part of the cost of activating the ability, when the ability resolves, the damage source no longer has infect because it's sitting in the graveyard unequipped quote:120.3. Damage may have one or more of the following results, depending on whether the recipient of the damage is a player or permanent, the characteristics of the damage’s source, and the characteristics of the damage’s recipient (if it’s a permanent). H.P. Hovercraft fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Sep 10, 2020 |
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Sep 10, 2020 02:45
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last-known information applies here. the living bloodfire colossus is the source of the damage, even if he's already deadquote:113.7a. Once activated or triggered, an ability exists on the stack independently of its source. Destruction or removal of the source after that time won't affect the ability. Note that some abilities cause a source to do something (for example, "Prodigal Pyromancer deals 1 damage to any target") rather than the ability doing anything directly. In these cases, any activated or triggered ability that references information about the source for use while announcing an activated ability or putting a triggered ability on the stack checks that information when the ability is put onto the stack. Otherwise, it will check that information when it resolves. In both instances, if the source is no longer in the zone it's expected to be in at that time, its last known information is used. The source can still perform the action even though it no longer exists.
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Sep 10, 2020 02:49
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Bloodfire Colossus + Basilisk Collar was the primary win condition in my Brion Stoutarm deck back in the day, that poo poo was awesome.
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Sep 10, 2020 02:57
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but things like infect and lifelink check when damage is dealt, don't they? i didn't think damage-dealing effects/abilities go onto the stack with that quality or anything; i'd think the last known information would be for things intrinsic to the source, like if something cared about it being red
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Sep 10, 2020 03:00
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whether or not BFC has infect is "information" and since he's dead, it uses his last-known information EDIT: vvv ah, there it is. yawgatog doesn't link that one for some reason LordSaturn fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Sep 10, 2020 |
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Sep 10, 2020 03:08
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seems to be, yeah. looks like it's clarified under its keyword sectionquote:702.89d If a permanent leaves the battlefield before an effect causes it to deal damage, its last known information is used to determine whether it had infect. cool
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Sep 10, 2020 03:17
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LordSaturn posted:EDIT: vvv ah, there it is. yawgatog doesn't link that one for some reason What is that? I never... (quick web search)  And here I am using the .txt version of the rules like a chump.
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Sep 10, 2020 09:33
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Thanks for all the advice. I'm going to look at what to cut to make room. What about the rest of my creatures? I originally had Quartzwood Crasher, Scavenging Ooze, and Grumgully in it. I also almost added Selvala, but I didnt know if it would be worth the money. Big Centipede fucked around with this message at 09:45 on Sep 10, 2020 |
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Sep 10, 2020 09:36
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Bust Rodd posted:3-mana dorks are bad, and Immolation Shaman has never done anything for me in testing. I would at least run Nature’s Claim and Triumph of the Hordes, even understanding low spell count because of your commander. I was kinda iffy on immolation shaman to begin with, so thats an easy cut. I know 3 mana dorks arent very good, but you dont think they fit ok in a Ruric deck? I
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Sep 10, 2020 09:37
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Big Centipede posted:I was kinda iffy on immolation shaman to begin with, so thats an easy cut. I know 3 mana dorks arent very good, but you dont think they fit ok in a Ruric deck? I I don’t think they fit anywhere besides IN DA TRASH (except Wood Elves, a pure and special friend) Off da top a da dome: Sol Ring, Elvish Mystic, Llanowar Elf, Fyndhorn Elves, Paradise Druid, Incubation Druid, Zhur-Ta Druid, Gruul Signet, Talisman of Impulse, Arcane Signet, Nature’s Lore, Rampant Growth, Farseek, Wood Elves The key to Ruric Thar is that while you should absolutely lean on creatures, you can’t let your own Commander scare you away from non-creature spells. Give RT a Basilisk Collar or a Shadowspear, maybe a Loxodon Warhammer or Batterskull, and go HOGWILD. If someone is trying to kill Ruric Thar, and you snap off a Heroic Resolve, for example, sure you’ll take 6, but now your opponent has to take 12 to kill Ruric or eat poo poo when you crack back. You can also get value out of your huge guys with stuff like Momentous Fall, and a personal fave of mine, Life’s Legacy. If you’re ramping into Ruric and playing the deck as aggressively as you should be, taking 18 from your own Commander won’t matter if you’re keeping him safe and warm, wrapped in soft blankies of Hexproof & Totem Armor. Cryptoloth Rite feels bad because all ur small guys already tap and all your big guys should be swinging. Likewise I don’t really see what Dryad of Ilysian Grove is doing for you, unless you want to add a Scapeshift combo back up plan, which would fit with your basic heavy build JUUUUUST fine. You should put Grumgully back in for sure. Also new Nylea and Klothys.
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Sep 10, 2020 14:11
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I was gonna let this all go, but I feel like I have to respond to the whole RC/CAG thing, because people have messaged me about it, and it's a pretty good example of a fundamental problem of the format and how people perceive it. Here's two posts I wrote up and wasn't going to make: ------------------------------------------------------ So, here's the thing with EDH: 1- Nobody who matters worth a poo poo wants 2 banlists or a split format. Anyone trying to sell you that is an rear end in a top hat. 2- Nobody in the cEDH community is interested in pubstomping. 3- The cEDH community, as a whole, is mostly happy with the format (and banlist), and I'd say their biggest gripe is cost and accessibility (WHICH SHOULD BE EVERYONE'S BIGGEST GRIPE). 4- Sheldon and the RC are vain, whiny shitheads and need to be chucked in the loving street immediately. Gavin Verhey, even faster. They are the product of nepotism and rode on the coattails of others to their current level of popularity. The fact that Sheldon is still jerking it over Sol Ring in 2020 tells you all you really need to know about that. 5- If the RC/CAG really wanted to help the format substantially, they'd be banging in WotC's ear non-stop about reprints, pricing, and accessibility. They'd be presenting a unified front and continually banging this drum, but they won't, and that alone should be causing calls for replacement. 6- The precons suck. They have sucked for probably at least 5 years now, and weren't particularly good before that. I can do a rundown on any year's precons, but they are absolutely awful for getting new players in, but the unique cards in them force players into purchasing, because the cost of singles isn't appreciably lower. 7- If the RC/CAG were actually genuine in their "we're here for the people, man" bullshit, they'd have a clear and concise method for getting new people in and replacing bad members. But they don't, and never even consider it, because they know "the people" would have them out on their rear end immediately and the only thing keeping them together is nepotism. Feel free to actually refute my points, but everyone with their idiot loving straw man arguments about some fictional loving playgroup of people who will never exist in the real world can eat my entire rear end in a top hat. ------------------------------------------------------ In case anyone is under the delusion that the C20 precons are actually any good, and by comparisont to C19, maybe they are better, but that's polishing a turd, here we go: I grabbed the first C20 decklist here: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/full-commander-2020-decklists It's BUG Mutate. So, the very first thing I see in this deck is that IT HAS ZERO PLAYS ON T1/2 OUTSIDE OF THE OBLIGATORY SOL RING AND ARCANE SIGNET. Not "no good plays". Not "just ramp". Literally zero plays. I mean, you could argue playing a couple of the X spell creatures as 1/1s, but EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE DECK COSTS 3+ MANA. This is offensive. If you are waiting until T3 to MAYBE (we'll get to the lands in a sec) play a card, you're basically being told that the first 20-30 minutes of your game time are worth nothing and that's how the designers value you as a player. That's not even getting into the fact that, with everything costing an absurd amount, that the designers are signalling that they expect you to play at sorcery speed forever, which ISN'T MAGIC. Having almost nothing to ever do off-turn, it's a recipe for 4-player solitaire, which is gross. What's worse is, it's not even that they jammed a bunch of stuff that goes well with the marquee commander, but is also slow, because the marquee commander is a Mutate dude. AND MUTATE WANTS SMALL DORKS SO YOU AREN'T STRANDED WITH A HANDFUL OF MUTATES. COME THE gently caress ON. On top of that, they've given you 3 commanders completely at odds with each other, and nearly half the deck doesn't actually support any of them. They split their attention 3 ways, and then got distracted and went a 4th. How does this happen? And, circling back to the manabase, we've still got karoos, we've still got rare colorless durdle utility lands taking up the rare slots (Endless Sands), we've still got cipt lands slowing us down (Soaring Seacliff), and we've still got TEMPLE OF THE FALSE loving GOD. And, maybe, MAYBE, I could see my way through to accepting any of this, even a little, if there was any reprint equity whatsoever, but NOPE. In addition to having virtually no staples, the only notable reprints over a dollar or two are Sol Ring and Arcane Signet, WHICH ARE DEFAULT REPRINTS IN EVERY DECK GOING FORWARD. This deck does nothing, has no reprint value, and exists merely to waste player time and money. It is a slap in the face of every player, even those who don't buy it, and trying to give WotC any credit for it, or the CAG/RC/Sheldon for having input on it and not screaming at them endlessly to do better is just debasing yourself. ------------------------------------------------------ So, yeah, cEDH is doing well, and I'm glad, but that's not the real issue and anyone deflecting onto that instead of addressing the fact that WotC keeps doing poo poo-tier money grabs like this a loving gacha mobile game needs to get their poo poo together.
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Sep 10, 2020 19:47
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EDH with full proxy support is a fantastic format. My hope is that enough other players get in on this that WotC eventually realizes that if they intentionally keep failing to make their product available, people can just print poo poo out on their home printers.
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Sep 10, 2020 20:47
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Toshimo posted:ABSOLUTELY 100% GOLD It's insane that WotC refuses to reprint good cards, especially in products that don't influence the card pool of newer formats. Wizards doesn't see a penny when Gilded Drake and Copy Artifact go north of $200, and they haven't seen a penny from it for over 20 years. Imagine how healthy the format would be if cards like ABUR dual lands were $3-10, like they were in the 1990s. EDH is the most popular type of MTG, it's insulting that Wizards, an company that makes its money printing and selling collectible cards, forces players to use draft chaff in their flagship format because they refuse to reprint the cards that players actually want and play with.
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Sep 10, 2020 21:10
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Aranan posted:EDH with full proxy support is a fantastic format. My hope is that enough other players get in on this that WotC eventually realizes that if they intentionally keep failing to make their product available, people can just print poo poo out on their home printers. This is the only solution to the problem of WotC and reprints. I mentioned this in the previous page, and it feels very Econ 101/obvious, but a monopolist has no incentive to produce at the price/quantity that a competitive market would support. A profit maximizing production of a monopolist is always a lesser quantity, and a higher price, than the market demands. Informally, all of WotC's supply is being consumed by the market. It is very difficult to get new product, and has been for some time. There are a number of reasons this is the case, but until there are sustained shortfalls in their revenue, they have no incentive to change their printing policies. Even if additional value could be captured, why risk assured additional costs, for potential additional revenue. And in general, that is additional revenue, not profit, since necessarily the monopolist is producing at the profit maximizing quantity. *edit* - and certainly this isn't their direct line of thinking, but increased WotC reprints could damage your Local Game Store. Most 'retro' game stores make their money on second hand sales, compared to the new games they sell for just above cost. It is impossible for these stores to compete directly with Amazon/Walmart for 'sealed' new games, so one could assume that your LGS would have a hard time making money on 'sealed' WotC product compared to reselling singles. If WotC reprinted "Urza's Block Remastered" with every single card available regardless of reserved list presence, it would have some impact on the prices of secondary market cards, and generally they'd go down. Real 'Playable' Cards would likely retain their value, as Sol Ring does each time it is reprinted, and all of the weird unplayable stuff, that has value because it isn't being reprinted, is likely to go down. You could end up in a situation where reprints are plentiful, but LGSs can't afford to sell them to you, and then that tanks their main source of profit, which is reselling singles. Grevlek fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Sep 10, 2020 |
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Sep 10, 2020 21:49
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d004BlPRVN4 This is more or less exactly what you guys are talking about said very well and researched very well. I agree with the need for reprints and stuff. Full stop, abolish the reserve list and reprint poo poo into the ground. Even if I lost money I wouldn’t care, but all indications are that reprinting Gaea’s cradle today wouldn’t impact my judge foil too much. I genuinely don’t understand the vitriol towards Sheldon and Gavin, or how nepotism plays into it (nobody voted for Sheldon, he just was one of the first guys to make it a thing) and I don’t understand the need for the RC to be a democratically elected group of people, or why the Sol Ring thing is an indictment. How big would the RC be? Would we have representation from all 50 states and every country? 2 each for casual and competitive? How does one vet themselves? Wouldnt it just immediately be consumed by various content creators, the people predisposed to winning any kind of popularity contest? I just don’t like Gavin because he talks like a huge dork.
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Sep 10, 2020 21:59
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Full disclosure, I want there to be reprints, and I do not look at my hobbies as investments that I will get money out of in the long run. America has an insane desire to derive value out of the things that they are doing, and investments tend to cause inefficiencies in markets. Hell, the price of Gaea's Cradle, is higher, due to the 'investment' nature of trying to get value out of your hobby. There are X amount of sealed product that still has a handful of Gaea's Cradles in them, and there are the people who've got collectors/graded Gaea's Cradles, that you can't use to play with. If the only people who had Gaea's Cradle's were people who wanted to play with Gaea's Cradle's there would be more Gaea's Cradles being played. Some argue that scarcity demands we allocate resources to those most willing to pay, but as it is often pointed out, the cost of printing any individual magic card is so small, one can assume that all demand could be met for a reasonable price. I'll agree that scarcity is a concern when trying to determine the correct number of airplanes to build per year, but scarcity is less of a concern when you print literally millions of chaff cards that no one actually wants, and you could print a Gaea's Cradle on every single one of them, and someone would want one and likely pay more than it cost to print them. But, WotC has no incentive to change. It is a monopoly, only it is legally allowed to sell Magic the Gathering cards, and in general, all of the products they print each year, are purchased. Until that that last part stops happening, the correct and prudent corporate strategy, is to continue doing this. It is why Secret Lair products are priced at almost exactly the secondary market cost, they know there are X consumers willing to purchase at that price point, and it could just be local supply inefficiencies that prevent everyone who wants it at that price from getting it.
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Sep 10, 2020 22:10
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Grevlek posted:*edit* - and certainly this isn't their direct line of thinking, but increased WotC reprints could damage your Local Game Store. Most 'retro' game stores make their money on second hand sales, compared to the new games they sell for just above cost. It is impossible for these stores to compete directly with Amazon/Walmart for 'sealed' new games, so one could assume that your LGS would have a hard time making money on 'sealed' WotC product compared to reselling singles. If WotC reprinted "Urza's Block Remastered" with every single card available regardless of reserved list presence, it would have some impact on the prices of secondary market cards, and generally they'd go down. Real 'Playable' Cards would likely retain their value, as Sol Ring does each time it is reprinted, and all of the weird unplayable stuff, that has value because it isn't being reprinted, is likely to go down. You could end up in a situation where reprints are plentiful, but LGSs can't afford to sell them to you, and then that tanks their main source of profit, which is reselling singles. I don't know if it's good or bad, and I am entirely speculating and have no evidence to support my opinion, but I assume WotC's reticence to reprint stuff is based on a combination of this and wanting to encourage people to buy/play newer cards without needing to power-creep their way past the broken-but-limited-supply past cards. Basically they've concluded (rightly or wrongly) that they'll make more money leaving the secondary market in place so that LGS's can bring in newer player/give current players a place to play, and creating environments for newer cards & formats, than they would reprinting old stock into the ground. Like, think about their implementation of Pioneer. Did the world need another format? Not really. But Modern was getting expensive and pricing new-ish players out, and it's hard to keep people permanently invested in Standard because they can't play with a bunch of cards they like. So to keep the treadmill of new card creation & sales going, they make a format to mollify people and convince them to stay in the game.
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Sep 10, 2020 22:47
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With all the discussion of reprints, I guess I always figured it was WoTC being careful not to repeat the True-Name-Nemesis situation. If they view the role of the commander decks as primarily being a way to get money from the kitchen-table commander players/converts, then having valuable reprints would not serve that audience if the decks are constantly out of stock due to speculative interests. That doesn't excuse them being so terrible (As Toshimo breaks down exquisitley), but i don’t see Wizards using them as vehicles for reprints for the intended audience reason by itself.
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Sep 11, 2020 00:24
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It sure is a problem for a business when you produce a product and people want to buy it.
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Sep 11, 2020 01:48
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Aranan posted:It sure is a problem for a business when you produce a product and people want to buy it. It can be if you think people buying it out now will prevent it from growing in the future. Its parallel to their rationale of making the Planeswalker deck planeswalkers too weak/slow for standard.
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Sep 11, 2020 01:51
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I always thought the main reason for the extra commanders packed into the commander pre-cons was so that you could pick your favourite and rebuild the deck to better match it. They’re not meant to be equal to a properly constructed deck because they’re meant to be a try it out and then upgrade it deal. Which is what a lot of introduction level pre-constructed decks are like in both Magic the Gathering and most other card games. That doesn’t mean they should be as bad as they are, they absolutely should be higher quality with more meaningful reprints. But they’re not really meant to be some incredible best EDH option, just a way to introduce yourself to the format and build up out of with better cards. I think they’re also intended to be roughly balanced against eachother but that might be wishful thinking. Personally I’ve enjoyed playing the pre-cons with my friend group even if I don’t often get to win.
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Sep 11, 2020 01:58
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Yeah Otrimi is my go to casual deck, even if the precon was garbage it ended up being extremely fun to tune up and brew with. Turning Needle Specter or Cephalid Constable into 6/6 is hilarious, and since there aren’t enough playable mutants I get to play with Zaxara and a bunch of silly X spells.
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Sep 11, 2020 02:19
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So ultimately the problem is that the precons are presented as a new player friendly item, but also include just enough new stuff with some reprints that make them essential purchases for most EDH players. If they made the new cards and reprints available elsewhere, there could be less animus towards how bad the precons are. It's almost like they should have one of the 4 yearly sets dedicated to reprints. When I first started, that was the job of the xth edition set. They shouldnt have new stuff in core sets, they should only be reprints, and the xth year core set should reprint all of the exclusive errata stuff like commander precon cards. weird vanilla posted:It can be if you think people buying it out now will prevent it from growing in the future. Its parallel to their rationale of making the Planeswalker deck planeswalkers too weak/slow for standard. It's not even being concerned about blowing out the market or anything like the video game crash. The charts and graphs of economics say monopolies shouldn't make as much stuff as people want.
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Sep 11, 2020 02:25
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Grevlek posted:It's not even being concerned about blowing out the market or anything like the video game crash. The charts and graphs of economics say monopolies shouldn't make as much stuff as people want. I think you’re quick to dismiss the relevance of something that actually happened, especially given the distribution problem that resulted from it. True-Name Nemesis being a Legacy-playable card meant Mind Seize was perpetually sold out at any store you went to, while 20-30 copies of Nature of the Beast sat unsold on shelves.WotC only distributed C2013 in the 5-packs, which created an awkward supply and demand issue as a result. That was bad business for everyone involved.
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Sep 11, 2020 03:01
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weird vanilla posted:I think you’re quick to dismiss the relevance of something that actually happened, especially given the distribution problem that resulted from it. True-Name Nemesis being a Legacy-playable card meant Mind Seize was perpetually sold out at any store you went to, while 20-30 copies of Nature of the Beast sat unsold on shelves.WotC only distributed C2013 in the 5-packs, which created an awkward supply and demand issue as a result. That was bad business for everyone involved. How is this the counterargument to "put edh cards that need reprinting in precons because they'll never get done anywhere else"? You think Legacy players are gonna buy 10 copies of Talisman of Dominance and Mystic Remora?
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Sep 11, 2020 03:10
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If Wizards created a "Vintage Masters" set and reprinted Tabernacle, the 5 allied color true duals, Gilded Drake, Wheel of Fortune, and Yawgmoth's Will, all at mythic, along 25 or so other mythics, and priced it at $20 per pack, you'd still have to open 2+ cases to see the card you wanted. Prices would not plummet when people have to open thousands of dollars in product to get the expensive cards in the set. Yeah, the original printings might fall in value a nominal amount, but only so far when the reprints are still selling for hundreds of dollars fresh out of the packs. Then they could print the enemy color true duals next year, and Ancestral Recall, Chains of Mephistopheles, Moat and 30 pieces of medium-value stuff, and it would still cost thousands to get the few valuable cards. Mythics in Masters sets are still rare and expensive. And if they finally reprint Black Lotus on the "MTG 30 Year Anniversary Masters" it could be as a mythic masterpiece, one per 8 cases, and it would still move product without lowering the original card's value, because you had to open so much of the new product to crack it. Infinite Karma fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Sep 11, 2020 |
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Sep 11, 2020 03:27
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Yeah I'm certainly not educated enough on the topic to speak about that specific situation. I'm sure if the legacy players could have bought a core 15 booster that had a shot at getting that card would probably be happier to buy a box of core 15. And you can't rely on the singles market for a card you only get one of from a precon, since they are only going to get one per precon and how many people are going to want to part with such a desired card? Printing the fetchlands as box toppers is a decent start, but putting them in regular packs of modern horizons is better. That logic should be applied to any of the exclusive cards from the precons. A lot of this conversation could be moot, since it seems like with zendikar onward they are shifting the whole printed commander product anyway . *Edit* I think infinite karma is spot on just because of pull rate. There is no evidence the floor would fall out on the older versions of cards. I think the outlook regarding how available the reprints would be is probably right, but I know a number of 10-20 dollar cards were available in reprint after mystery boosters came out for very cheap. It might not move stuff they decide is mythic, but it certainly would help, and there are a ton of rares and lower that just need any reprint to start moving lower. Grevlek fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Sep 11, 2020 |
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Sep 11, 2020 03:32
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Toshimo posted:How is this the counterargument to "put edh cards that need reprinting in precons because they'll never get done anywhere else"? Because it’s irrelevant to what they want the precons to do (entry-level product), and it still risks the same kind of thing happening if they incorrectly gauge the interest of commander players/speculators. For the specific examples you gave, I’d add that I don’t believe the people WotC has on the case are apt enough to identify those kinds of cards as being in-demand for reprints. I think you hit the nail squarely on the head as far as Sheldon and crew being out of touch with what makes an edh deck effective outside of the battlecruiser/kitchen table meta.
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Sep 11, 2020 03:47
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weird vanilla posted:I think you’re quick to dismiss the relevance of something that actually happened, especially given the distribution problem that resulted from it. True-Name Nemesis being a Legacy-playable card meant Mind Seize was perpetually sold out at any store you went to, while 20-30 copies of Nature of the Beast sat unsold on shelves.WotC only distributed C2013 in the 5-packs, which created an awkward supply and demand issue as a result. That was bad business for everyone involved. You're basically making the point you think you're arguing against. If WotC had released five decks that all had valuable or at least desirable "EDH staple" reprints, there wouldn't have been the massive sales imbalance, or the massive stock issues in general. Instead, they released four decks' worth of garbage, and, in their ignorance, one deck that had a card that was garbage in EDH but an immediate Legacy staple. EDIT: weird vanilla posted:I don’t believe the people WotC has on the case are apt enough to identify those kinds of cards as being in-demand for reprints. I think you hit the nail squarely on the head as far as Sheldon and crew being out of touch with what makes an edh deck effective outside of the battlecruiser/kitchen table meta. At least we can all agree that WotC and Sheldon are lovely card evaluators. Though I'd add that the man who rushed to ban Sylvan Primordial is probably also out of touch with what makes an EDH deck effective inside of the battlecruiser/kitchen table meta. disaster pastor fucked around with this message at 03:52 on Sep 11, 2020 |
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Sep 11, 2020 03:49
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I didn't know enough about the situation and that seems like the perfect place for a card to go into Core 15 or whatever. If they released five precons, and there was only one playable card out of the lot, people should have the confidence that it will show up this summer in the core set at some level. Instead you get players/speculators spiking a single product, and WotC with it's hands in it's pockets like oh shucks it was popular what are you gonna do??? It's like having an emergency outlet switch for hot fire, but instead you drop it in a core set
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Sep 11, 2020 03:59
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Grevlek posted:I didn't know enough about the situation and that seems like the perfect place for a card to go into Core 15 or whatever. Putting True-Name Nemesis in the next core set would have required them to also immediately ban it from Standard (and probably Modern), which made the chances of it being printed in a core set less than zero.
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Sep 11, 2020 04:36
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disaster pastor posted:Putting True-Name Nemesis in the next core set would have required them to also immediately ban it from Standard (and probably Modern), which made the chances of it being printed in a core set less than zero. Maybe they should normalize that? They banned Lutri out the gate so people in other formats could play with it. Maybe non standard legal cards in standard will incent those players to use those cards in other formats or sell trade them to the formats that want them? Edit one of their weird personalities could go on one of the youtube programs they like appearing on and say, "sorry standard but.." and it would generate so much buzz
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Sep 11, 2020 04:47
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