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Zat posted:It is, and this applies even to the One X. They originally planned to make the One X UI 4K but decided against it to maximize the amount of memory available for games. Per Microsoft using a 1080p UI instead of 4K leaves 1 GB more of RAM for games. Right and I believe this is where that 2GB of slower RAM comes into play on the Series S, that's purely the OS/system RAM. The X is using 2.5GB we believe for that and I'm sure for this gen will be at 4K, the S can run at 1080p and be well under that budget.
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Sep 11, 2020 15:19
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ErrEff posted:Interestingly, only 4% cited download limits as a reason to not buy digital. After all, many major games come with mandatory huge day one patches anyway. I don't think download limits exist in most of Europe. I've never had one in the UK, my phone also has unlimited GB's. Think digital makes a bit more sense with Xbox Access and with the fact you have to install the whole game and download a massive patch all the time anyway. I guess that trick (stealing) where you and a buddy set your consoles as each others home console and can both play one digital game will still work? The only reason I'd go with a physical game would be so you can pick games up for a lot cheaper a few months after release. Reselling games you've completed also works well for Nintendo consoles as they never lose their value - but it gets kind of pointless a few months post release with the other consoles as they're worth close to nothing.
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Sep 11, 2020 15:21
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Gutcruncher posted:Every meg matters some months, but even ignoring a data cap I usually still want the benefits of physical, especially on Switch where getting cartridges saves tons of space on the sd card i thought cartridges would be fun for the switch but i stopped bothering and have been selling them off and rebuying digital because they're really just an annoyance
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Sep 11, 2020 15:26
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Digital is great overall but I don’t want to lose the ability to install stuff like RDR2 off a disk, which saves almost one tenth of my data for the month. Edit: I also don’t want to lose the option of buying games that exist on disk but have been de-listed from digital stores Edit: Give me a console like those old CD players that could hold 5 disks and shuffle them at random. Extreme Warioware. Gutcruncher fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Sep 11, 2020 |
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Sep 11, 2020 15:31
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There have been multiple occasions where I have clicked to play a game and immediately changed my mind when I realised I would have to go over to my console and put the disc inside. It's 2020 baby, don't make me move.
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Sep 11, 2020 15:32
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I dont get the resale argument ether, like it made sense when you almost always had to dig out an old console or cart to replay some game. But it seems like any worthwhile games are getting ported (or remade) for the latest gen consoles/pc. Like why in world would I go hunt down a Gears of war disk when its likely on game pass and the dlcs are $5 in total or included in the game pass version? (I just used it as an example of an old game idk how much it actually costs)butt dickus posted:the benefits of physical are having to keep all of your disc cases out in the same area as your console, eject the game you're done playing, put it away in the case, get the game you want to play out, insert it and then wait for it to download the exact same update the digital version needs Same, though I've bought a few carts just because either was on sale in store. Nintendo is expensive dang.
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Sep 11, 2020 15:46
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Twerk from Home posted:I don't understand the "data caps" argument now that games have 50+GB downloads even after you installed from the disk. Discs seem to be a physical license management system to me. This has been my experience. I'm too lazy to sell used games. So discs have become annoying ownership tokens that make the console rattle from time to time when the drive spins up. So I buy games on sale and try real hard not to buy a game unless I'm ready to play it. Game Pass has really worked for me. I've been keeping track of how many games I've bought on sale that have ended up on game pass before I got them out of my backlog. It was uncomfortably high. So I'm buying less and less games and seeing what ends up included in the subscription before I get to it.
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Sep 11, 2020 15:49
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I went full digital for this current gen. I bought like 3 games on disc at launch and then no more. For me I realized that I have good internet with no caps, more games than I can play, fairly discerning with what games I do buy full price, keep my games and don't trade them in, digital sales started to be worthwhile so I could save a lot waiting to play a lot of games, hard drives got big enough that I didn't have to juggle uninstalling/reinstalling. Frankly I wish the Series X had an option with no drive.
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Sep 11, 2020 15:54
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any other devs bury the xboss yet today
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Sep 11, 2020 15:59
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For some reason first party Nintendo games I'm like "I want to pop in a cartridge" but everything else hell yeah digital baby. I think over the course of this gen I ended up with maybe 4 physical Xbone games, most of which were gifts.
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Sep 11, 2020 16:01
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I still buy single player games on disk because I finish them quick enough to get a resell value to buy the next game.
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Sep 11, 2020 16:04
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Rad Valtar posted:I still buy single player games on disk because I finish them quick enough to get a resell value to buy the next game. Hell yeah I'm so glad I've been able to sell/trade back some of the absolute stinkers I've bought over the years
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Sep 11, 2020 16:14
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The obvious advantage to discs is you can still sell your games if you want so I do that a lot too. I also get them tax free in the state which is a bonus
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Sep 11, 2020 16:47
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So basically what I’m getting is that: - The S is really the “main” product because given the absolutely massive gap in specs, third parties will almost unilaterally target the lowest common denominator. - Continuing with this, the S will be the actual focus of MS moving forward because it’s way more in line with the goal of making “Xbox” synonymous with a service rather than a device. - All this is moot anyway because, at least for the first year or two, first party studios are going to have to make sure that games run on everything back to the original launch day Xbox One from 2013, which fuckin lollin my tits off tbqh. They learned nothing.
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Sep 11, 2020 16:56
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at least it doesn't have esram? they're still making the xbox one s which does though just to keep the despair around devs dealing with it
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Sep 11, 2020 16:59
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Phil spencer gets a lot of praise for making the changes that anyone would have had to make in 2015 to sell bones and not a lot of criticism for his hardware mania and cycles of closing/buying studios with no hype games to show for it even when it really should have mattered for multiple console launches His one positive is making bc happen. Services are a ms wide directive gamepass would have happened without him imo. I'd fire his rear end if this launch is a flop but hes like a folk hero to some of these xbox guys i see online
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Sep 11, 2020 17:07
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bloodysabbath posted:- All this is moot anyway because, at least for the first year or two, first party studios are going to have to make sure that games run on everything back to the original launch day Xbox One from 2013, which fuckin lollin my tits off tbqh. This turned out to be almost irrelevant because turns out almost everything they have in the pipeline obviously isn't going to come out until holiday 2022 at the earliest.
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Sep 11, 2020 17:30
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Real hurthling! posted:I'd fire his rear end if this launch is a flop but hes like a folk hero to some of these xbox guys i see online Well, Don Mattrick basically told everybody to go gently caress themselves a bunch during the Bone launch, so— It’s like when your ex-partner’s a giant shithead, and then you end up dating somebody who’s just less of a shithead, not even *-not a shithead- * just less of a shithead, but they seem like they’re the bee’s knees for a while because, hey, an improvement’s an improvement.
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Sep 11, 2020 17:34
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I have no idea what to think about the Series S specs. Mostly because I have no idea if what people are saying is true because it's true, or if it's because people still seem to think that the Series S is a 4K console. The S has 8GB for use by games between CPU and GPU, and the X has 10GB. The X has to use larger textures, which takes up more space, so are they really that different? In regards to RAM speed, it seems my GPU's RAM can transfer at 14GB/s and my normal RAM can transfer at 25GB/s. So the RAM in these console seems like it is apparently faster than what I have. I'm not an expert in console hardware so I have no idea. I'll just wait and see how things actually perform on the real hardware and not what random people think is a big deal. I would be annoyed if the Series S still has the problem where Microsoft's bloated UI is slow as hell. I haven't even turned my bone on in a while, since I mostly just use PC gamepass anyway.
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Sep 11, 2020 17:37
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I wanted to believe the goddamn DirectX people know their poo poo and the limitations are specifically tuned not to matter for a different target, but seeing actual devs get pissed off is extremely worrying
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Sep 11, 2020 17:40
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Devs always get pissed off.
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Sep 11, 2020 17:43
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i dunno they seem really happy with ps5 specs, probably because the major lesson sony learned from the ps3 was to talk to devs to inform their hardware and the major lesson microsoft learned was "make more fragmented platforms"
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Sep 11, 2020 17:50
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Devs aren't consumers and don't care about how affordable a console is, only how many toys it comes with.
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Sep 11, 2020 17:53
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in the end ms doesn't care if the specs are poo poo because they know people will buy it and devs will just have to make it work as someone with no intention of buying any console that doesn't play mario i just hope the series s flops and dies so games can be developed targeting modern specs for the sake of better games on PC
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Sep 11, 2020 17:53
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Cojawfee posted:I have no idea what to think about the Series S specs. Mostly because I have no idea if what people are saying is true because it's true, or if it's because people still seem to think that the Series S is a 4K console. The S has 8GB for use by games between CPU and GPU, and the X has 10GB. The X has to use larger textures, which takes up more space, so are they really that different? In regards to RAM speed, it seems my GPU's RAM can transfer at 14GB/s and my normal RAM can transfer at 25GB/s. So the RAM in these console seems like it is apparently faster than what I have. I'm not an expert in console hardware so I have no idea. I'll just wait and see how things actually perform on the real hardware and not what random people think is a big deal. I would be annoyed if the Series S still has the problem where Microsoft's bloated UI is slow as hell. I haven't even turned my bone on in a while, since I mostly just use PC gamepass anyway. The lead engine programmer at iD is not a random dude.
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Sep 11, 2020 17:54
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Real hurthling! posted:Phil spencer gets a lot of praise for making the changes that anyone would have had to make in 2015 to sell bones and not a lot of criticism for his hardware mania and cycles of closing/buying studios with no hype games to show for it even when it really should have mattered for multiple console launches
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Sep 11, 2020 17:56
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American McGay posted:Devs aren't consumers and don't care about how affordable a console is, only how many toys it comes with. They may not be a consumer but they are a customer and their input matters. Epic pushed for doubling the RAM on the 360 and that massively paid off for the 360. As for consumers, I really can't imagine there are very many of them who make their own buying decisions, were going to buy a 1 tb PS5, and are now going to buy a 500 gig Series S, especially if getting the storage up to 1tb makes the price difference disappear.
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Sep 11, 2020 17:59
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I'm just saying if game devs had their way all consoles would cost $1200 because that would make their job easier, even though that would drastically limit the number of people who could experience their games.
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Sep 11, 2020 18:02
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FlamingLiberal posted:My main issue with him is that somehow the XSX is going to have basically no first party launch games of note, despite them presumably planning this launch years ago I'm still baffled there's no Forza. Between Turn 10 and Playground they released a Forza game a year for like 8 years, now there's nothing coming until 2022 at earliest most likely, which will be a 4 year gap. Even if you know Turn 10 are going to be taking their time on the next mainline Forza, have Playground knock out another Horizon game on an iteration of the current engine to fill in. Yes they're working on Fable but that also is years away, and didn't they expand to two teams?
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Sep 11, 2020 18:02
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Red Warrior posted:I'm still baffled there's no Forza. Between Turn 10 and Playground they released a Forza game a year for like 8 years, now there's nothing coming until 2022 at earliest most likely, which will be a 4 year gap. Even if you know Turn 10 are going to be taking their time on the next mainline Forza, have Playground knock out another Horizon game on an iteration of the current engine to fill in. Yes they're working on Fable but that also is years away, and didn't they expand to two teams? They are probably trying to build like a 10 year platform out of it like halo and hitting the same roadblocks
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Sep 11, 2020 18:04
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I mean Sony asked the Devs what they wanted and they said instant load times and so thats why we’re getting the tech we are in the PS5. It’s really not that hard.
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Sep 11, 2020 18:05
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American McGay posted:I'm just saying if game devs had their way all consoles would cost $1200 because that would make their job easier, even though that would drastically limit the number of people who could experience their games. Game devs are always saying this!
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Sep 11, 2020 18:06
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Rad Valtar posted:I mean Sony asked the Devs what they wanted and they said instant load times and so thats why we’re getting the tech we are in the PS5. It’s really not that hard. I really want to see their tear down bcause of cerny's talk about cooling a machine that runs at a constant power draw without temperature spikes.
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Sep 11, 2020 18:13
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Red Warrior posted:I'm still baffled there's no Forza. Between Turn 10 and Playground they released a Forza game a year for like 8 years, now there's nothing coming until 2022 at earliest most likely, which will be a 4 year gap. Even if you know Turn 10 are going to be taking their time on the next mainline Forza, have Playground knock out another Horizon game on an iteration of the current engine to fill in. Yes they're working on Fable but that also is years away, and didn't they expand to two teams? it's a bit complicated... until now forza has been on 2 year product cycle since forza 1 so it's always been a crunch. but a lot of people were unhappy with very common repeatable bugs being carried forward from game to game this way. Now the sim racer crowd is certainly niche, but they've all but abandoned forza for other games now and for pretty good reasons, both the bugs and new features being added to other race games that forza hasn't gotten. That's not just serious iracers. A lot of people played project cars 1 and 2 / assetto corsa in 2013-2017 and thought it was a much better sim lite. I tend to agree. More games like that are coming out. (pcars 3 is a big stinker though) For a game like forza, that niche is probably at least some significant fraction of their customers jumping ship. forza motorsport is still a sim lite after all. Now they've have to compete directly with a rather big gran turismo release that is coming either this holiday or sometime in 2021. it's definitely felt like since forza 6 they've been going more and more arcade and i wont argue some people like that more. but if you are at all involved in the forza community you cannot seriously deny a serious lack of hype towards new forza games. what i'm saying is, putting another year or two into it when it's only been a 2 year cycle and in decline isn't necessarily a bad call. they need to make forza 8 as feature and track filled as possible to bring people back. I'd argue they need to be using a brand new engine. rushing forza 5 out for release on xbox one was a critical mistake for the series (maybe it helped the xbox launch out) when it toppled over because of problems edit: i speak only of forza motorsport, not horizon, which is a different dev and much more successful edit2: looks like the horizon devs were acquired by ms in 2018. well if you know anything about microsoft acquisitions..... they don't always go super smoothly with whatever the dev is currently working on ethanol fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Sep 11, 2020 |
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Sep 11, 2020 18:20
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Forza 7 had one track made from the ground up for 4K and the differences were stark. Going into another generation they will have to do the equivalent of Polyphony dropping all legacy car models going from 6 to Sport and redo a ton of assets.
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Sep 11, 2020 18:27
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Ruffian Price posted:Forza 7 had one track made from the ground up for 4K and the differences were stark. Going into another generation they will have to do the equivalent of Polyphony dropping all legacy car models going from 6 to Sport and redo a ton of assets. which track?
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Sep 11, 2020 18:47
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Sep 11, 2020 18:56
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Ah yeah lol now I remember that track did look shockingly better than everything else
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Sep 11, 2020 18:58
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Twerk from Home posted:I don't understand the "data caps" argument now that games have 50+GB downloads even after you installed from the disk. Discs seem to be a physical license management system to me. This depends a lot on what games you buy. If you avoid GaaS games and are on PS4 (this last part is important), the patch sizes don't usually get into "what the gently caress are you doing" territory (exceptions exist but overall they're pretty rare). Even the newest Resident Evil games (2 and 3 remakes) have tiny patches, for example. Sekiro has less than 4 gigs. Death Stranding is like 1.2 gigs, Horizon: Zero Dawn is sub-1 gig no matter which version you get, I think the same is true for every Yakuza game. Final Fantasy VII Remake never got a patch at all, version 1.00 all the way. Based on a look at patch sizes, not even 20% of PS4 games seem to have patches larger than 10 gigs currently (with a few of those having had later disc reissues which were updated). But even if it nuked and redownloaded every time there's still value in having a physical representation of your license. So take me, for example. I don't own Batman: Arkham Origins on Xbox 360. I can't buy it digitally, it may have been available digitally at some point but it isn't now. If I was a SADboner or a Series S owner, I'd be SOL for getting the game at all. But if I have an Xbox with a disc drive I can buy a disc copy on eBay, stick it in, and while the game will still have to fully download since the disc is just a license check, I can actually at least play it. And if poo poo gets really bad and Xbox closes all their servers, I can still stick those discs into an Xbox 360 and play the full game that way.
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Sep 11, 2020 19:17
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univbee posted:And if poo poo gets really bad and Xbox closes all their servers, I can still stick those discs into an Xbox 360 and play the full game that way. edit: sorry cannot read today batman arkham origins is real bad though
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Sep 11, 2020 19:19
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