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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:Whole lotta tipper gore rear end posting in the last page or so That's a good point. Many of the planks and tenets of QAnon feel like regurgitations of the fantastical hysteria over heavy metal music in the 1980s. The amount of social media comments I've seen in the last few days that boil down to "I'm cancelling Obama, Hillary and Netflix right this instant!" is remarkable and shows how politicized this has become (and how close the election is looming). In another respect I'm reminded of The Last Temptation of Christ (1988) in that Cuties will be commented on to death with very few viewers. Currently has a 1.7 rating with 6,594 votes on IMDb. Probably not all legitimate. Professorjuggalo posted:https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1997-12-30-1997364099-story.html Kind of interesting because some consider Amistad Spielberg's mea culpa for The Color Purple (1982). Skwirl posted:I met two different people at two different colleges who were there on the GI Bill and said they joined the military because of the movie Full Metal Jacket. Probably just too young to fully grasp the meaning. The ending of that features a really gruesome shootout.
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Sep 11, 2020 22:18
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Zogo posted:
loving obviously they saw it young, how many people who aren't literal teenagers join the military?
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Sep 11, 2020 22:23
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Gargamel Gibson posted:Little Miss Sunshine is loving canceled! thats a thing I kinda wanted to bring up, like, both Donnie Darko and Little Miss Sunshine have scenes that are doing exactly the same poo poo as Cuties, making exactly the same kind of point with actresses that are just as young (iirc I think the girl from LMS was even younger) and yet, nobody freaked out about those on nearly the same sort of level, even in the retroactive "wow, John Wayne is CANCELLED" way you occasionally see?
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Sep 11, 2020 22:25
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:thats a thing I kinda wanted to bring up, like, both Donnie Darko and Little Miss Sunshine have scenes that are doing exactly the same poo poo as Cuties, making exactly the same kind of point with actresses that are just as young (iirc I think the girl from LMS was even younger) and yet, nobody freaked out about those on nearly the same sort of level, even in the retroactive "wow, John Wayne is CANCELLED" way you occasionally see? It's probably just ignorance and/or forgetfulness. There are lots of other films available on Netflix (and other streaming sites) that have even more explicit content than Cuties. Skwirl posted:loving obviously they saw it young, how many people who aren't literal teenagers join the military? I've heard of some in their thirties enlisting but the vast majority are young and poor last I checked. They don't know what they're really doing. It's one of the tragedies of society. It's like the ending of Hair (1979) featuring zillions of headstones: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhNrqc6yvTU
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Sep 11, 2020 22:38
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Zogo posted:I've heard of some in their thirties enlisting but the vast majority are young and poor last I checked. They don't know what they're really doing. That is just a myth and basically always has been, the majority of people who join the army are middle or upper class.
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Sep 11, 2020 22:43
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Gargamel Gibson posted:Little Miss Sunshine is loving canceled! It is pretty fuckin weird that the dead grandpa was teaching her that dance in secret, though. Like if he were still alive he'd have some splaining to do. Also weird: that dj who when he's handed the music is like "Oh hell yeah".
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Sep 11, 2020 22:45
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People are way less likely to go after established cult classics with big fan bases. The kinds of people who crawl out of the darkest and wettest corners of the internet to defend Donnie Darko is not the fight to pick. Cuties feels like a movie victimized by its bad press. The hosed up and creepy imaging got into the wild faster than intention of the film was disseminated and in truth while I support this movie in theory (its an important thing to talk about and you should be able to discuss something artistically instead of just as a dry documentary) but in practice I cannot begin to imagine what mood I’d have to be in to want to watch this, or how long I could put up with it. I worked with children of all ages for the majority of my career and I get incredibly defensive of them as a result, so a movie all about objectifying and victimizing young girls is something I doubt I can stomach. IShallRiseAgain posted:That is just a myth and basically always has been, the majority of people who join the army are middle or upper class. According to two scientific studies I just looked up from the University of Syracuse and the research center for industrial economics, this not true and in general the average FAMILY income of soldiers is like 65,000 a household. Where are you getting your numbers from? Bust Rodd fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Sep 11, 2020 |
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Sep 11, 2020 22:45
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IShallRiseAgain posted:That is just a myth and basically always has been, the majority of people who join the army are middle or upper class. I suppose there can be many caveats. Are you saying it's always been a myth that the poor join the military more? Or just in more recent times it's a myth concerning the US Army? If it's always been a universal myth I wonder how it came about. PS Any time I see "middle class" lately I wonder what it means and how it's being defined exactly. Because I've seen some definitions where middle class people could still have negative net worths etc. which seems dubious. Or that we're living in the greatest economy in world history when a growing number find themselves in the negative net worth bracket. But that's just Trump doing his shtick so I shouldn't pay that much attention.
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Sep 11, 2020 23:04
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Bust Rodd posted:Cuties feels like a movie victimized by its bad press. The hosed up and creepy imaging got into the wild faster than intention of the film was disseminated and in truth while I support this movie in theory (its an important thing to talk about and you should be able to discuss something artistically instead of just as a dry documentary) but in practice I cannot begin to imagine what mood I’d have to be in to want to watch this, or how long I could put up with it. It also suffers from bad timing because this year has seen a great expansion in a movement that uses “we’re protecting the children from sexual trafficking” as a cover for the same old anti-Semitic “Jews rule the world” conspiracy. This is like tailor made for those people to latch on and attack because they can frame it as Hollywood catering to pedophiles, despite the only Hollywood aspect of it being Netflix’s marketing (which is truly tasteless and atrocious). All of the concern trolling posts about this movie are likely being spread by people who post pastel IG memes about how terrible child trafficking is between posts about how vaccines cause autism, they’re lying to you about COVID, Wayfair is selling furniture with kidnapped sex slave in it, and how you shouldn’t click the link in that spam text you just got because the International Kidnapping Cabal is going to hack into your phone, track you down, and kidnap you.
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Sep 11, 2020 23:07
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OK, so of the people who have discussed it at length in the last couple pages... who has actually watched the film?
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Sep 11, 2020 23:54
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Boywhiz88 posted:OK, so of the people who have discussed it at length in the last couple pages... who has actually watched the film? Both the best and worse descriptions of it make me not want to watch it. If I had a young daughter I'd probably watch it to figure out if I either need to warn her about it or watch it with her to try and have a conversation with her about society and how it treats her.
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Sep 12, 2020 00:00
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Boywhiz88 posted:OK, so of the people who have discussed it at length in the last couple pages... who has actually watched the film? I had to skip some parts they were so uncomfortable to watch. There's a scene where an adult neighbor male finds out she stole his cellphone so she could set up an IG acct to post, view etc. He confronts her and she tries to flirt somehow with him not understanding what she's doing, and he looks at her in disgust and demands to know what is going on. I couldn't even watch the dance scenes or similar, I just saw the shots panning to the crowd showing the difference in reactions. It's a very depressing sad movie because you watch a girl who doesn't understand any of the implications of the dancing and behavior but embraces it because it allows her to escape from her heavily restricted home environment and make new friends with the 'cool' kids rather then be bullied by them. Then with free access to social media and the internet she leans so heavily into it because of all the likes and positive comments and just spirals downwards trying to maintain that sense of freedom and happiness. It reminds me a lot of the movie Thirteen, I'd say they both kind of address major issues girls face in the tween-teen age range and how they don't understand how the male gender is starting to notice them and treat them differently; the effects of which can rapidly go from simple mistakes to life ruining events. pentyne fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Sep 12, 2020 |
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Sep 12, 2020 00:10
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Skwirl posted:Both the best and worse descriptions of it make me not want to watch it. If I had a young daughter I'd probably watch it to figure out if I either need to warn her about it or watch it with her to try and have a conversation with her about society and how it treats her. it's absolutely the latter kind of movie it's not a pleasant watch at all, but it's more 12 Years A Slave unpleasant than Larry Clark unpleasant
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Sep 12, 2020 00:12
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It sounds like the problem becomes when people act exactly the same as conservative Christians, who think the only answer to the problem of teenage pregnancy is abstinence-only sexual education.
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Sep 12, 2020 08:23
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I feel like this is the only time this anecdote will be relevant to conversation so hell, I'll stop lurking and just share it. When I was in about 8th grade (so maaaybe a year or two older than these girls at best), I was in this after school club-type thing with different activities you could sign up for on a day to day basis, and one of the activities was a dance troupe taught by one or two twenty-something women. They'd choreograph a routine for the kids with the goal of eventually performing it in front of the parents. And I distinctly remember, at the time, they were learning a routine to the song "Lose Control" by Missy Elliott feat. Ciara. I remember on one hand, feeling weird about the fact everybody was dancing to something that literally opens up with the lyrics "I've got a cute face, chubby waist / thick legs, in shape / Rump shaking both ways / Make you do a double take", especially since we were all girls between the ages of 11 and 13. but on the other hand I honestly, really legitimately wanted to sign up for the activity because it looked like an absolute blast. I never signed up for it in the end but a year later in high school, I took an actual dance class for a PE credit. I loved learning routines, getting all the steps down, it legitimately felt incredibly freeing to participate in. At the end of the term we did a routine loosely based off of this one from So You Think You Can Dance, and our outfits were basically "wear red/black and a lot of makeup". I remember my mom expressing concern over the way I had dressed (I had described the look at the time as "zombie hooker"), and I wanted to hang out with some older teen friends from the same class afterwards. She didn't want me to because she suspected The Worst™ but we literally just went to a Dairy Queen up the road and celebrated in the most wholesome and benign way possible. We weren't thinking about how we looked or how the routine looked as performed by a bunch of teenage girls. We were just trying to have a good time. These were both really tame situations compared to things like child beauty pageants--everybody was fully clothed, and I think the majority of us were in it by choice instead of feeling pressured into it--but I thought it might benefit the thread to hear from somebody with adjacent life experiences. I think there's a place for a film that portrays this sort of emotional and psychological dissonance, between wanting to express yourself and realizing that said expression doesn't exist in a vacuum. I mean particularly in the current age of social media. Everybody had a myspace back then, sure, but it wasn't something we were connected to 24/7 like it is today. I can't imagine what being plugged in to all of this bullshit from birth does to a person or how it influences their growth. I will say that the clip posted absolutely made me uncomfortable (as a cis woman nearing 30) but then that was likely the point. The comparison to the movie Thirteen feels apt. Anyway thanks for coming to my TEDtalk
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Sep 12, 2020 08:31
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Zogo posted:PS Any time I see "middle class" lately I wonder what it means and how it's being defined exactly. Because I've seen some definitions where middle class people could still have negative net worths etc. which seems dubious. e: vvv: Is that guy playing a character, or is "ironically" being aroused by children a new spin on "ironically" shouting racist slurs? Vir fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Sep 12, 2020 |
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Sep 12, 2020 08:41
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Here's a review that casts some light on how people feel about Cuties https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9CQxIu9_cw
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Sep 12, 2020 14:54
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https://twitter.com/tulsigabbard/status/1304587833584226305?s=21 This will probably settle things down and not make this filmmaker’s life a total living hell.
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Sep 12, 2020 16:42
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Help fuel the sex trafficking trade, is she deranged? Oh, it's Tulsi Gabbard.
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Sep 12, 2020 16:54
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https://twitter.com/SenTedCruz/status/1304754228477472768 And Ted Cruz is getting in on it now. It's looking like this film's going to be the wink and nod for elected GOP officials to gesture towards QAnon without actually claiming The Hollywood
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Sep 12, 2020 16:59
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A bunch of lefty twitter types being baited into getting behind a Qanon-level thing to harrass a black woman is kind of amazing.
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Sep 12, 2020 17:04
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I love how despite our very best efforts to keep this thread as apolitical as possible...
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Sep 12, 2020 17:25
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mycot posted:A bunch of lefty twitter types being baited into getting behind a Qanon-level thing to harrass a black woman is kind of amazing. sickos eager to make posts like this on behalf of the sexy children movie. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 12, 2020 18:04
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Precambrian posted:https://twitter.com/SenTedCruz/status/1304754228477472768 Is there actually something that you could consider pornographic, or is ol' sack-of-wasps just riding the outrage train? (I suspect I know the answer but not gonna watch the film)
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Sep 12, 2020 18:26
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Crackbone posted:Is there actually something that you could consider pornographic, or is ol' sack-of-wasps just riding the outrage train? Well this is where it’s tricky. A non pedo probably doesn’t think it’s pornogrpahic, just deeply creepy. But there’s no way there aren’t copies of this being freely shared and distributed on the dark web because high production value movies about little girls twerking in sparkly outfits are actually really hard to produce without people asking lots of questions. This movie will absolutely “serve the needs” of the people it’s explicitly trying to protect the children from.
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Sep 12, 2020 18:32
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The Kingfish posted:sickos eager to make posts like this on behalf of the sexy children movie. I mean this is why this discussion is doomed no one can bring up something like "maybe there's people who are talking in bad faith like Ted fuckin' Cruz" without being called a pedophile or pro-pedophilia.
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Sep 12, 2020 18:35
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I think that was just a shitpost on the same tier as passing off any complaint of the movie with ‘wow, Qanon much?’.
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Sep 12, 2020 18:37
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Bust Rodd posted:Well this is where it’s tricky. A non pedo probably doesn’t think it’s pornogrpahic, just deeply creepy. This isnt something that hasn't existed in excess for decades in America and the gross moralizing extreme reactions are just cheap fodder for outrage votes. I don't see any of these same people talking about how child beauty pageants are just the pedophile versions of adult beauty pageants. It's just a perfect storm of media, Hollywood, foreign film, poc, and the Qanon hype to give cover to the typical voter pandering. mycot posted:I mean this is why this discussion is doomed no one can bring up something like "maybe there's people who are talking in bad faith like Ted fuckin' Cruz" without being called a pedophile or pro-pedophilia. The closest analogy I can think of its the curb stomp scene in American History X. If someone just posted that clip and said that was what the movie represented it would be called horrifically racist in an unforgivable way. That the entire point of the movie is to say such things like that scene are abhorrent and dangerous isn't going to matter to the people who both love the scene unironically and who hate the scene no matter what context its in. pentyne fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Sep 12, 2020 |
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Sep 12, 2020 18:41
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I also agree big mouth isn’t comparable and I even said myself the problem with this is the same problem as exploitation movies. There’s gonna be adults watching this film who don’t see the message or ignore it and kids who also watch it and miss it only adding to the alarming and already pointed out trend in society (but with a official studio backing). Which means at best this is something for the audience to chew over and not something FOR the exploited groups it’s preaching on. This is all stuff feminist and black groups were saying about horror and exploitation films (but both have addressed this in ways with some drat good modern horror movies and the entire blaxploitation genre). And horror and exploitation films had histories with demands from the top to put in extreme scenes to justify making movies about heady topics in the first place. While that’s a larger problem with capitalism in itself I feel these things amplify way worse with the nature of child labour. From wikiapedia: An exploitation film is a film that attempts to succeed financially by exploiting current trends, niche genres, or lurid content. I’m not arguing that exploitation films don’t have a place in society, but that using children put them past a grey area from the power dynamics involving children. The same reason I let big mouth go makes me hate a movie like Good Boy Plus I’m sure the film director is gonna get off smoother than any of the child actors. Most of the Qanon paranoia is directed at Netflix the corporation Edit: I’ve never watched big mouth so idk about anything regarding it other than it’s a cartoon about adults voicing teens during puberty. That’s all I used to base this off of and isn’t defending or trashing the show cause I don’t know poo poo about it Professorjuggalo fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Sep 12, 2020 |
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Sep 12, 2020 18:44
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Big Mouth is like.. an entirely different scenario than Cuties. Massively bad faith comparison.
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Sep 12, 2020 18:49
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Yeah, I don’t think declaring all coming-of-age stories, no matter how they’re told, verboten is a good take-away from this. Big Mouth seems like a good compromise.
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Sep 12, 2020 18:51
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But Big Mouth isn’t cautionary. It’s a nostalgia trip for folks who went through puberty and it’s maybe somewhat relatable to teens who are going through that. It’s meant to be over the top and absurd. Presumably, something like Cuties is speaking to parents and adults and how they factor into this. What they do or do not discuss with their child, how they approach certain topics or behaviors. I’m probably gonna watch it w my GF this weekend to just have an actual understanding of the film and how it portrays these topics. My understanding is that the main character isn’t a latchkey kid. That she has her parents in her life. Isn’t that an avenue for self examination right there? Hey, I’m involved w my kid but what am I focusing on or expressing to them? In high school, I remember an all school spiritfest where there was a dance routine that started off with T.I’s Tip Drill. For reference, you could only find the video uncensored on porn sites. Those were girls between 14-17yo dancing to that song, even if the dancing itself wasn’t explicit. It wasn’t “right” per se, but it’s also just the reality of things. Kids want to be into adult things even if they don’t understand all aspects of these situations. I knew a peer who was dating a guy 6 years older than her, in his early 20s. I just feel like it’s this weird erasure of how a lot of people live and grow in the world. Especially one where sexuality is used in advertising and media non-stop. It may also be the more Puritan aspect of American culture. Think of the discussions around portrayal of violence in American media vs the world. We’re far more comfortable with blood and guts, then nudity and sexuality.
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Sep 12, 2020 19:06
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Isn't Big Mouth a cartoon with adults providing the voices?
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Sep 12, 2020 19:24
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Skwirl posted:Isn't Big Mouth a cartoon with adults providing the voices? Yes, and also shows graphic sexual content of children. If it had been an anime most people would've laughed and said "lol pedo cartoons amirite" but since its a Netflix cartoon everyone raves about how deep and insightful it is.
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Sep 12, 2020 19:30
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You guys keep talking about how there’s stuff valid in the movie but constantly sidestep my whole exploitation point. It’s not a Puritan argument I’m making since I spent posts positioning my thoughts on exploitation as a whole. Theres TONS of media for adults and teens and kids alike that tackle this stuff without needing to resort to filming kids twerking in a worse gaze than a hype Williams music video. I never watched Donnie darko but even Little Miss sunshine handled its worst scenes with a infinitely better gaze than that cuties clip. A lot of these defences on what we think the kids can handle or internalize during these filmings I think get addressed in the Foucault ‘competent child’ argument. The same commodifications that happens from war movies or slavery movies or woman getting slashed up on screen fall short on how children are socially and mentally, and by extension how society views kids thereafter (and even before but I don’t wanna turn this into the Foucault show). It’s not some ‘save the children!’ pearl clutching but another bump in the long road of media, capitalism and sexualization. If media is a window into society (if you’ve never seen a Frenchman in your life and are asked to imagine one you’re probably gonna think up some caricaturization in a beret with baguette) then by showing this as is even with its message it’ll get commodified even in the smallest amount into what the Netflix marketers and outragers all see it as. Anime is a whole other can of worms on top of how japan views sex and children (wasn’t child porn banned there in 1999? The guy that made rurouni kenshin got caught with a bunch of child porn and was accepted back in society with open arms), plus it doesn’t apply to this discussion or argument
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Sep 12, 2020 20:57
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I’m really done posting but something can be exploitative and come from the exploited group. There’s a billion think pieces on how typically exploitative and tired 12 years a slave is and it was made by a black man. The Qanon outrage is bullshit for sure but people are trying to handwave everything with this large narrative of Puritan conservative backlash when there’s other legitimate grieving. Society has a huge problem with teens and the whole Britney Spears ‘Im not that innocent’ tilt of sex appeal, and has for a long time. Making people uncomfortable by blasting it on screen and then having the film go ‘wow isn’t that hosed up?!’ Isn’t new or impressive and my entire point the means aren’t enough to justify the ends, especially when the means are laid on extra thick TO justify the end. I can maybe assume that’s why hollywood gave up on this bullshit as a way to pull out cheap ethos
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Sep 12, 2020 21:08
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pentyne posted:Yes, and also shows graphic sexual content of children. Big Mouth would absolutely be a pedo cartoon if it was anime. Its art style is self-consciously ugly to avoid depicting sexy children. Lmao at the idea anyone is talking about how deep and insightful Big Mouth is. The Kingfish fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Sep 12, 2020 |
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Sep 12, 2020 21:13
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The Kingfish posted:Big Mouth would absolutely be a pedo cartoon if it was anime. Its art style is self-consciously ugly to avoid depicting sexy children. Lmao at the idea anyone is talking about how deep and insightful Big Mouth is. If it wasn’t for that whole “Big Mouth got renewed for multiple seasons at once while Tuca and Bertie got canned after 1 season and being utterly buried by the Netflix Algorithm” debacle, I wonder if people would even talk about Big Mouth at all. AceOfFlames fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Sep 12, 2020 |
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Sep 12, 2020 21:35
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Michael Cohen's Daughter Reveals How She Was Sexualized by Donald Trump as a Teen https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/michael-cohens-daughter-reveals-she-232420061.html Cohen writes that he remembers Trump whistling and looking over at the tennis courts: “Look at that piece of a**,” Trump said. “I’d love some of that.” Little did Trump know, he was talking about Cohen’s then 15-year-old daughter. Cohen turned to Trump and said, “That’s my daughter.” Cohen’s book continues to recount the uncomfortable anecdote: “That’s your daughter? When did she get so hot?” Trump said. Court rules secret videos cannot be used in Robert Kraft case https://sports.yahoo.com/court-rules-secret-massage-videos-cannot-be-used-in-robert-kraft-case-165207113.html Kate Winslet on working with Woody Allen and Roman Polanski: 'What the f*** was I doing?' https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/kate-winslet-regrets-working-with-woody-allen-roman-polanski-001341327.html Kevin Spacey Accused of Sexually Assaulting Two 14-Year-Old Boys in New Lawsuit https://www.thewrap.com/kevin-spacey-accused-sexual-assault-14-year-old-boys/
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Sep 12, 2020 22:17
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Cuties is turning into one of the most controversial films in years.Vir posted:The most expansive definition is that the "middle class" is just all the people who are not in the 20% poorest and 20% richest of people, but that kind of eliminates the "working class". On the other hand, negative net worth by itself can't exclude you from being middle class, since just having a mortgage on your house or having debts on your business can bring you into negative net worth even if you live in luxury and own your own business. Yeah, those are some things I'm curious about. Because it seems like usury (through mortgage debt, credit card debt, student loan debt, auto loan debt, payday loan debt et al.) is increasing for a large percentage of people in the country. And that a middle class today probably has more than it once did. I guess this is getting into a bunch of quibbling over definitions. What is "poor" and "rich" etc.
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Sep 12, 2020 22:18
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