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I got the impression that the Shadows didn't know what the Vorlons were doing. That's why Morden went to try asking the question to Delenn.
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Aug 18, 2020 23:16
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SlothfulCobra posted:I got the impression that the Shadows didn't know what the Vorlons were doing. That's why Morden went to try asking the question to Delenn. They had just reawakened and were trying to get the lay of the land. The Minbari had been major Vorlon allies in the last war a thousand years prior. Probing whether they'd be amenable to Shadow influence was probably just perfunctory - unless as speculated above they were behind the Warrior/Religious caste conflict. Vorlons creating telepaths to equip their allies to fight the Shadows isn't a new tactic, or the Shadows wouldn't have eradicated all the Narn telepaths in the last war. Organized groups of telepaths would be a huge priority for subversion or destruction in your opening moves.
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Aug 19, 2020 00:50
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I think the Shadows would have manipulated Earth and Centauri to go to war against the Minbari first, what with the Minbari being the big Vorlon client state and all, and also with so many Clark supporters being still embittered from the Minbari War. That's what I think the Advanced Omega project was really aimed at. Yeah, that checks out. A revenge war would be an easy sell to Clark's regime. Hell, you'd have to hold them back once that full squadron is online.
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Aug 19, 2020 01:23
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DrBouvenstein posted:Man, say what you will about The Shadows, but they are GREAT at subtle manipulation. The Shadows seem pretty good at adapting tactics to their enemies and understanding how to manipulate others through their desires. The Vorlons mostly decide what to do and want to force others into going along, and they tend more towards tailoring the people they are going to work with (teaching to genetic engineering) instead of meeting them where they already are. We know a Minbari assassin, almost certainly Warrior caste, tried to indirectly kill Sinclair and destroy B5 by framing him for Kosh’s murder. Assuming the Vorlons didn’t share with the Minbari that they can be poisoned, one suspects that assassin had help from others aware of Vorlon weaknesses. And the Windswords seem to have released Deathwalker just in time to trigger a massive conflict over her immortality drug, though the Vorlons halted that gambit through direct action. The odds of a connection between elements in the Warrior caste and the Shadows seems very high.
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Aug 19, 2020 05:10
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Narsham posted:The Shadows seem pretty good at adapting tactics to their enemies and understanding how to manipulate others through their desires. The Vorlons mostly decide what to do and want to force others into going along, and they tend more towards tailoring the people they are going to work with (teaching to genetic engineering) instead of meeting them where they already are. Though that does beg the question of why the Shadows didn't tell Morden to avoid Delenn as well as the Vorlon. By the way, Jha'dur wasn't released by the Wind Swords because they were never holding her. She was sheltering with them while she perfected the immortality drug. Her leaving at that particular time could just be a coincidence. A more telling piece of evidence towards collusion between the Warrior caste and the Shadows is that when Delenn made the final call to war on the Shadows the Warriors did not respond. But again that could be because they considered it a religious war rather than a war on the Minbari.
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Aug 19, 2020 08:54
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Jedit posted:A more telling piece of evidence towards collusion between the Warrior caste and the Shadows is that when Delenn made the final call to war on the Shadows the Warriors did not respond. But I'm not discounting the possibility that I couldn't count that day
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Aug 19, 2020 18:43
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Jedit posted:Though that does beg the question of why the Shadows didn't tell Morden to avoid Delenn as well as the Vorlon. Well, Morden didn't approach Kosh--they encountered each other when Morden was on his way to talk to Sinclair. And if the Shadows found someone willing to listen in the Warrior caste, why not try with the Religious as well? We've seen evidence of a Religious caste Minbari willing to cut a deal with the Shadows' servants. Are you suggesting that the Wind Swords, who not only must have been sheltering Jha'dur but were supporting her experiments, somehow lost track of her and she slipped away? Either they permitted her to leave, or they actively supported her. She claims that she's giving her secret to Earth because Earth defeated the Dilgar, but the ending makes very clear that it's a form of attack on Earth, intended to drive humans to fight and kill one another. I suppose the Wind Swords might have been entirely innocent, but I doubt it. They told her specifically about Sinclair, and routing her through B5 instead of a direct trip to Earth runs the risk of exposure, which is only a good thing if she's meant to be provoking conflict not just among humans but between Earth and others. I suspect what we're seeing is Minbari-style collusion. Indirection, betrayal through passivity or inaction instead of direct action, at least until the Warrior caste starts their civil war. It is interesting that the Warrior's leader, Shakiri, did not launch this conflict until after the Shadows were defeated. Even there, I suspect it was less a matter of an alliance with the Shadows and more a matter of injured pride after the Religious caste wins a war. Most likely, any collusion between Shadows and Warrior caste didn't rise to the level of support the Drahk offered to the Religious caste, but the mere fact that the Drakh knew about the internal Minbari conflict implies an existing information stream. I would not be surprised if the Drahk made an offer to Shakiri first, and were turned down with contempt. "You offer to assist my warriors in defeating the Religious caste, after they vanquished your masters? I have no need of your help, and if it proved as effective as it was for those you served before it would be rather a hindrance!" Ayin posted:If I understood correctly (and if I'm not thinking of a different scene), three Warriors stayed behind in that scene -- but right then, there were *four* on the Council. One of 'em broke rank (and was stopped by one of the ones who stayed behind, before they continued on). The script book says that five leave with Delenn, so all four Warriors stay. (Haven't checked the DVD to see if the staging is consistent.)
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Aug 19, 2020 19:33
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There are only three Warriors in the Grey Council. Three from each caste. I'd suspect that one of the Workers stayed behind.
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Aug 20, 2020 01:25
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Delenn breaking the Council is after she's replaced with a Warrior caste.
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Aug 20, 2020 02:47
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Narsham posted:The script book says that five leave with Delenn, so all four Warriors stay. (Haven't checked the DVD to see if the staging is consistent.)
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Aug 20, 2020 10:10
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Q_res posted:Delenn breaking the Council is after she's replaced with a Warrior caste. Oh, right.
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Aug 20, 2020 10:31
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Found and read this thread over the last few weeks. Awesome nostalgia trip, greatly enhanced by the squabbling about protecting the Younger Races thread from over-interference in a very enjoyable and knowing parallel. I'm thinking the YR mod is more OG Kosh than Cherry. Have just located my dvd box set. I hope the pantheon have been kind and they all still work.
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Aug 23, 2020 17:58
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If you want to see Walter Koenig duck behind things and shoot at people? buddy I got a show you should see
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Aug 25, 2020 20:06
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Endless Trash posted:If you want to see Walter Koenig duck behind things and shoot at people? Is it the 1989 film, Moontrap? Walter Koenig shoots space things with his trusty sidekick played by Bruce Campbell.
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Aug 26, 2020 20:07
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Hi all, Reading this thread out of boredom got me into rewatching again. Currently through 1x06, but saw this in Parliament of Dreams and had to share (please excuse the hastily thrown together phone job):  He's just so gleeful that G'Kar's finally figured out he's the assassin
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Aug 27, 2020 06:55
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Expired Vitamin posted:Is it the 1989 film, Moontrap? Walter Koenig shoots space things with his trusty sidekick played by Bruce Campbell. How have I never heard of this before!? I guess I know what I'm doing this weekend (besides working  )
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Aug 27, 2020 14:08
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SnagglePuss posted:How have I never heard of this before!? I guess I know what I'm doing this weekend (besides working If you want proof that Walter Koenig can anchor an action flick...well this isn't it. It is bad enough to be fun though. My uncle had a copy on VHS that he taped on HBO around the time it came out. I'm not sure I have seen it all the way through since.
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Aug 27, 2020 17:57
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Bruce Campbell's fans don't watch his movies cause they're good.
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Aug 27, 2020 18:07
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Now that I think about it, Trek may have actually gotten the idea for the Borg from Moontrap.
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Aug 28, 2020 15:09
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I did it, people. I watched Grey 17 Is Missing without screaming. Then I finished off S3 as a brain purge.
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Aug 29, 2020 09:03
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Expired Vitamin posted:Now that I think about it, Trek may have actually gotten the idea for the Borg from Moontrap. The earlier JMS series Captain Power might have inspired the Borg: one villain was a cyborg with a glowing red eyepiece, and another villain was a computer that spoke in an echoey monotone. I know those ideas aren't unique in science fiction but the fact they appeared together in a show that aired a year before the Borg were introduced makes me wonder. Action Jacktion fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Aug 29, 2020 |
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Aug 29, 2020 16:42
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Jedit posted:I did it, people. I watched Grey 17 Is Missing without screaming. Then I finished off S3 as a brain purge. The main story of that episode is fine, even good. And Garibaldi’s adventure is just stupid enough to be passably entertaining.
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Aug 29, 2020 21:51
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The Borg were originally intended to be insects but budgeting issues are what prompted the change to cyborg gimps. So I'm not sure if the look of the Borg was inspired by any actual inspiration/external media per se so much as it was inspired by 'well we can glue a bunch of crap to this guy and make him into a spooky cyborg.'
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Aug 29, 2020 22:31
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Endless Trash posted:The main story of that episode is fine, even good. And Garibaldi’s adventure is just stupid enough to be passably entertaining.
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Aug 29, 2020 22:45
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Ayin posted:This was my favorite episode as a kid because I've always been a huge nut for "stumbling into a lost area" stories and also Marcus, and also excellent quotes So what you're saying is it's a dumb episode that only kids would like  (obv sarcasm)
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Aug 30, 2020 13:30
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At least they did not use that ape suit from the original pilot for the monster in that episode. It may have been funnier if they did though.
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Aug 30, 2020 15:47
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The_Doctor posted:The titles have a starfury firing on another starfury and that’s yet to be in an episode! I was wondering when one of the newbies would pick up on that.
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Sep 6, 2020 02:18
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Robin Atkin Downes is 44 today, which is unbelievable considering how long ago S5 was made. He also looks uncannily like Jason Carter.
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Sep 6, 2020 12:48
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Jedit posted:Robin Atkin Downes is 44 today, which is unbelievable considering how long ago S5 was made. He also looks uncannily like Jason Carter. Who will be 60 in a few weeks
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Sep 6, 2020 22:57
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AntherUslessPoster posted:Who will be 60 in a few weeks It's a good run, Delenn, especially for a B5 principal cast member.
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Sep 6, 2020 23:58
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Jedit posted:Robin Atkin Downes is 44 today, which is unbelievable considering how long ago S5 was made. Discovering that actors I watched in my HS/College years aren't actually much older than me has become kinda normal now, but it was freaking me out regularly for a while.
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Sep 11, 2020 21:27
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We reached Point of No Return and Severed Dreams tonight. I so can't wait for the blind watch peeps to get there, they're so close I can taste it. I'm watching The Expanse now (with its own blind watch thread in SciFi Wifi) and I'm liking it, but it's got a long way to go before it gets B5 good.
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Sep 12, 2020 03:24
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It's p good. Definitely gonna check out that thread.
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Sep 12, 2020 04:14
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Son of Sam-I-Am posted:We reached Point of No Return and Severed Dreams tonight. I so can't wait for the blind watch peeps to get there, they're so close I can taste it. Season one of The Expanse is mostly putting pieces into place just as B5's does. It's well worth sticking with for what'll kick off once it all comes together though.
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Sep 12, 2020 04:25
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Son of Sam-I-Am posted:I'm watching The Expanse now (with its own blind watch thread in SciFi Wifi) and I'm liking it, but it's got a long way to go before it gets B5 good. I kinda bounced off of The Expanse after the first few episodes. Most characters were a lot less appealing to me than their book counterparts. I've thought about giving it another try though.
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Sep 12, 2020 04:29
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You should, it's incredibly good and constantly gets better. The inter-crew conflict they added to the show version is mostly sorted through by the end of the first season.
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Sep 12, 2020 04:31
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Son of Sam-I-Am posted:We reached Point of No Return and Severed Dreams tonight. I so can't wait for the blind watch peeps to get there, they're so close I can taste it. Oh poo poo I'm going there. I was wanting to start a blind watch on that since I hadn't seen it yet, but was going to wait until the B5 blind watch ended.
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Sep 12, 2020 04:37
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Grand Fromage posted:You should, it's incredibly good and constantly gets better. The inter-crew conflict they added to the show version is mostly sorted through by the end of the first season. I bailed after season 3? or maybe 4? After a while the constant swapping of aliances and friendships and watching that one lady be just loving pure evil is tiring to me personally.
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Sep 12, 2020 04:46
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Bell_ posted:Oh poo poo I'm going there. I was wanting to start a blind watch on that since I hadn't seen it yet, but was going to wait until the B5 blind watch ended. The blind watch threads are the best thing about the sci fi forum, there's ones for Stargate and Farscape too. Personally I can't wait for the Lexx thread to appear.
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Sep 12, 2020 04:54
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Son of Sam-I-Am posted:The blind watch threads are the best thing about the sci fi forum, there's ones for Stargate and Farscape too. Personally I can't wait for the Lexx thread to appear. I might do Lexx after i'm done doing Farscape. I promised the OP in the farscape thread that i'd do at least through season 2. But I gotta tell you it's getting harder and harder.
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Sep 12, 2020 04:55
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