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I mean if you want to say Butcher took liberties with mythology (or just didn't read farther in his copy of The Big Book O' Myths For Writers And Other Idiots than the title of the Foo Dog entry) that's cool, and probably accurate. But the Marvel No-Prize approach is so much more fun.
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Sep 12, 2020 16:18
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Beachcomber posted:You're going to have to be more specific than "like this". Kchama had explained that "foo dogs"/shishi are lions, not dogs. Saying they might as well be dogs because it's mythological, it doesn't matter, and that the ignorant, made-up Orientalising version is just as good, is wrong. It's demeaning to Chinese culture in the abstract and at best disrespectful to Chinese people in practice, because it implies that you don't care about that culture and that person - and, by extension, other cultures and people. You don't know who's reading your posts, if you see what I mean. Not knowing that shishi are lions* is another thing, it's fine not to know stuff - the problem is not caring. That was a bit  for a single post that wasn't a big deal, but do you see where I'm coming from?Fun fact to lighten the post up: Shishi (normally) stand at each side of a gate. One is male and the other female, so they can have baby lions to ensure the place will be safe in the future, too. If you look, you can tell which is which, because they're, ah, anatomically complete. *They are pretty stylised, after all...
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Sep 12, 2020 18:06
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the other way you can tell is that the female usually has her paw on a small cub, and the male has his paw on a small globe.
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Sep 12, 2020 18:35
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All said, if Butcher says he's a dog, then I'm fine with that. He's a dog. It's like getting upset about alpha werewolves.
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Sep 12, 2020 20:16
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Wizchine posted:All said, if Butcher says he's a dog, then I'm fine with that. He's a dog. It's like getting upset about alpha werewolves. I never questioned his dog-ness. I just questioned Butcher's mythological accuracy.
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Sep 12, 2020 20:44
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DarkHorse posted:"Why is everyone treating me like an unstable idiot with a bomb?" thinks Harry as he pets his magical lion he thinks is a dog in the smoking ruins of yet another building that exploded and wasn't his fault. I'm going with Mouse is 100% a lion from now on. Makes his name even better if he's a cat as well.
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Sep 12, 2020 20:45
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Saros posted:I'm going with Mouse is 100% a lion from now on. Makes his name even better if he's a cat as well. And why everyone has to handle Harry with kid gloves because holy poo poo this guy has a lot of magical power and a pet lion and is too stupid to realize it's a loving lion
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Sep 12, 2020 21:02
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Saros posted:I'm going with Mouse is 100% a lion from now on. Makes his name even better if he's a cat as well. Mouse is a lion cosplaying as a really big dog. On my own, I don't really care if Mouse is a dog or a lion, but I certainly understand that people of that culture would care, so I guess I'm a little irritated on their behalf, if that makes any sense. It's a little bit the way that Stargate SG-1 kind of annoyed me with various pantheons turning out to be aliens, but it's not like they were ever going to have Jesus be a secret brain slug.
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Sep 12, 2020 21:05
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DarkHorse posted:And why everyone has to handle Harry with kid gloves because holy poo poo this guy has a lot of magical power and a pet lion and is too stupid to realize it's a loving lion "Doesn't he know that's a lion?" "Dude, SHUT UP. He doesn't even know he's wearing a loving hat."
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Sep 13, 2020 01:18
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Everyone posted:Mouse is a lion cosplaying as a really big dog. Jesus was a Tok'Ra
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Sep 13, 2020 07:21
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His Divine Shadow posted:Jesus was a Tok'Ra I think an argument could be made that he was an ascended.
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Sep 13, 2020 11:36
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StonecutterJoe posted:"Doesn't he know that's a lion?" "Dude, SHUT UP. He doesn't even know he's wearing a loving hat." “Didn’t anyone show him the book covers?” “SHHHHHHHHH!!!!”
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Sep 13, 2020 16:41
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His Divine Shadow posted:Jesus was a Tok'Ra World of Darkness has it clear, he's a werewolf kin from the Children of Gaia, it's right there in the tribebook 2e
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Sep 13, 2020 16:41
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Ironically, the most necromancy I've had in Anita Blake in a while is in Cerulean Sins, book 11, and it's also the one that has the most group sex so far. To be clear I'm LOVING this new focus on relationship drama with crime-solving and supernatural politics (Bella Morte is terrifying!) but alright alright I can see why folks don't like the series at this point. Fortunately this is more for me, and it doesn't negate any of the previous stuff in the books. If this post is somehow your first time hearing about Anita Blake, read the first three books, understand that they're the most pure noir/horror/supernatural hunting, and it slowly evolves over the course of the next seven books to become more relationship drama focused, and please stop before you get mad/upset. Or keep reading and enjoy it with me! On a different series note, I'm starting the Sookie Stackhouse novels because vampire relationship drama with examination of how vampirism is similar to being queer in 90s/2000s America? Hell yes give this all to me. e: I have to add, Anita's entire conflict with Dolph is easily the best thing in this book so far, god drat. She's become a monster, she hangs with the monsters, and her most staunch ally is having a real crisis over this. And then you do that back to back with Anita talking to Jason frankly about how she's terrified of loving anyone completely because the three people she's given her whole heart to have either died or been assholes (HI RICHARD gently caress YOU) But also to be clear, I adore Richard's role in these books and he's a fascinating character, almost my favorite "villain" to read about in this series at this point? I understand him, I understand how stupid he is, it's great to read. gently caress you, Richard. 
StrixNebulosa fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Sep 13, 2020 |
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Sep 13, 2020 18:34
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StrixNebulosa posted:World of Darkness has it clear, he's a werewolf kin from the Children of Gaia, it's right there in the tribebook 2e Okay, but what was Rasputin?
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Sep 13, 2020 18:37
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Lemniscate Blue posted:Okay, but what was Rasputin? I don't remember and looking it up, well, that's for a reason: quote:Rasputin is a historical figure that has been reported to be a Malkavian, Follower of Set, Ventrue,[1] Nosferatu,[2] and even a Shadow Lord, Ecstatic,[3] or a Puppeteer.[4] The truth remains murky. The identity of the famous monk was also used as a cover identity by various Justicars and Archons, a practice that originated from the master of disguise Vidal Jarbeaux.[5] e: source: https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Rasputin StrixNebulosa fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Sep 13, 2020 |
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Sep 13, 2020 18:39
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StrixNebulosa posted:I don't remember and looking it up, well, that's for a reason: What...what is this?
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Sep 13, 2020 18:44
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smertrioslol posted:What...what is this? old World of Darkness (extremely 90s tabletop rpg) liked to rewrite human history with "but there were vampires in it" and then they'd happily claim historical figures (except for Hitler) and it was and is INSANE in the best possible way. It also was a rpg that tried to be progressive, often failed, and had some REAL problematic stuff in it. It's giant and huge and fun and I recommend reading the core books for Vampire, Mage and Werewolf at least if you like urban fantasy at all.
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Sep 13, 2020 18:46
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Yeah the WoD lore is always entertaining either for being really interesting or just being batshit crazy. Having the luxury of a wife who did the hard part of collecting all of the changeling stuff in one place and taking notes in the margin before I could read through it, I can unironically endorse it as a hilarious read. It's not so hilarious you should drop megabucks to collect it yourself mind, but if you find it in your local library and have a coffee to drink, well you're in for a treat. I'm so glad you're is into the post-obsidian phase and I can watch you react to Anita's life falls apart but she can't let it go completely without horrifying nation-state level consequences, so it's time to be honest and rebuild. (gently caress YOU RICHARD). Watching her friendship with some normal people be A-OK and other normal people just go completely to pieces because they can't deal is this not-subtle-at-all commentary on how ordinary the average racist/bigot looks and how harmful they are to people who trust them with something different but ultimately personal and non-threatening about themselves.
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Sep 13, 2020 18:57
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Yeah, that's the joke. In oWod especially 1e nearly every vampire clan, Garou tribe, and Tradition claimed that Rasputin was either one of them or associated with them. It became something of a running gag.
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Sep 13, 2020 19:01
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Anias posted:Yeah the WoD lore is always entertaining either for being really interesting or just being batshit crazy. Having the luxury of a wife who did the hard part of collecting all of the changeling stuff in one place and taking notes in the margin before I could read through it, I can unironically endorse it as a hilarious read. I could probably write an essay on Ronnie v Dolph v Zebrowski and how they handle the shades of racism going on. And the pregnant cop who tried to open up to Anita because she thought Anita was pregnant! The sheer betrayal from her when Anita refused to lie, drat.
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Sep 13, 2020 19:18
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StrixNebulosa posted:I could probably write an essay on Ronnie v Dolph v Zebrowski and how they handle the shades of racism going on. And the pregnant cop who tried to open up to Anita because she thought Anita was pregnant! The sheer betrayal from her when Anita refused to lie, drat. Yes! I always forget about projection pregnancy Karen being mad. Also throw least fun jogging partner Ronnie on the list.
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Sep 13, 2020 21:48
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Anias posted:Yes! I always forget about projection pregnancy Karen being mad. Also throw least fun jogging partner Ronnie on the list. Holy poo poo the entire scene where Dolph arrests Jason and while being recorded goes full racist and basically ends his career I want to be sympathetic because having a kid willingly become a vampire would be really hard But "he deserves to be locked up because he's a werewolf" jesus loving christ
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Sep 13, 2020 23:38
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Safety Biscuits posted:Kchama had explained that "foo dogs"/shishi are lions, not dogs. Saying they might as well be dogs because it's mythological, it doesn't matter, and that the ignorant, made-up Orientalising version is just as good, is wrong. It's demeaning to Chinese culture in the abstract and at best disrespectful to Chinese people in practice, because it implies that you don't care about that culture and that person - and, by extension, other cultures and people. You don't know who's reading your posts, if you see what I mean. Not knowing that shishi are lions* is another thing, it's fine not to know stuff - the problem is not caring. god I'm Chinese and I'm just now realizing those guardian statues was what Butcher was trying to refer to this whole time 
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Sep 13, 2020 23:48
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Hi I'm reading Peace Talks and I hate Jim Butcher. 
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Sep 13, 2020 23:56
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Somberbrero posted:Hi I'm reading Peace Talks and I hate Jim Butcher. That. That's really uncomfortable to read
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Sep 13, 2020 23:58
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It almost reads like he originally had Harry noticing her boobs then decided hips would be less a creepy substitute and actually made it worse.
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Sep 14, 2020 02:22
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You would think Dresden would be too terrified of the capabilities of the Archive to male-gaze her. But then again, he male-gazes Mab too, even though he acknowledges it's a remarkably bad idea even for him.
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Sep 14, 2020 02:22
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Don’t worry it’s just the mantle.
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Sep 14, 2020 02:25
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I feel like there could be better ways to show the bestial/primal influence of Winter on people other than "perpetually horny." Especially for someone like Molly who would literally lose her powers (if not worse) if she ever acted on it. Like, make them noticeably more confrontational, a shorter temper. Harry has always had authority issues, crank that up a couple notches when the Mantle is feeling ornery.
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Sep 14, 2020 02:37
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the_steve posted:I feel like there could be better ways to show the bestial/primal influence of Winter on people other than "perpetually horny." Or make them less empathetic / more "cold".
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Sep 14, 2020 04:55
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the_steve posted:I feel like there could be better ways to show the bestial/primal influence of Winter on people other than "perpetually horny." The thing for me is that it didn't really seem to be the Mantle. There's wasn't any lust or desire attached to him looking at Ivy. Mostly it was Dresden thinking "drat, it really has been a pretty good while since I've seen her." Presumably there's better/more tasteful ways to notice that someone last seen as a child is no longer really a child, physically, at least.
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Sep 14, 2020 05:22
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Wonder if Harry's going to use the same language to describe his daughter growing up.
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Sep 14, 2020 11:05
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Wizchine posted:Wonder if Harry's going to use the same language to describe his daughter growing up. He literally did it when noticing that Hope Carpenter was also "developing"
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Sep 14, 2020 11:17
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Yeah I am absolutely not someone to jump to criticism of authors for various isms but this is one of the following: - sloppy; - creepy; or - pandering to an audience that expects and wants creepy.
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Sep 14, 2020 11:20
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Beefeater1980 posted:Yeah I am absolutely not someone to jump to criticism of authors for various isms but this is one of the following: I'd go with sloppy. It's not like Dresden was thinking "God-drat, She's got teh hips 'n' tits now! I want to roll around in some Ivy!" Yeah, the hips thing is awkward (and a little gross) but Dresden is clearly thinking in terms of "Wow, it really has been a goodly while since I saw Ivy last."
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Sep 14, 2020 12:35
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Being sloppy like that is completely unacceptable and I'm not comfortable with you defending it, Everyone.
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Sep 14, 2020 12:45
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Also I came in here to let Anias and anyone else curious know that I wrote up reviews for Anita Blake 9-11 and if you're curious here they are: Obsidian Butterfly Narcissus in Chains Cerulean Sins I'd crosspost them in here but they're long and three of them at once would be a pain. tl;dr I loved that sequence of books, three strong books that kept being insanely good in very different ways. I am a giant sucker for supernatural/sci-fi overlays hiding racism/distorting it through a weird lens so I can engage with the topic and think about it without having the raw pain of, well, /gestures vaguely at everything happening in America right now. Then you toss in the great character drama, the completely awful horror (shoutout to Anita Blake deciding that it would be better to execute a serial killer in a shopping mall point blank instead of risking him escaping, while there were toddlers and suburban moms in the same food court) (shoutout to the body horror and the existential horror and the whole sequence of being under psychic vampire assault while you're in a car on the highway that was fun!) and everything else and these books are a cocktail of things I love. /happy sigh Okay one more note: I'm impressed that so far between 11 Anita Blake books and 3 Merry Gentry books despite the plethora of romantic interests in them, none of them are clones of the other? I'm still burned by reading like ten Nalini Singhs in a row and I love those stupid paranormal romances so much but she has a real problem with writing the same two people falling in love over and over despite giving them different names and powers. Short fierce woman/big tall protective man, no nuance at all. Meanwhile LKH's dudes have enough complexity and poo poo going on that I can pick out who is who at fifty paces, even accounting for her love of long hair and angst. The only two characters who I think might be the same/similar in inspiration for her are Asher and Frost, and even then I'm just picking that out because they're both whiny to the point of irritating their lovers. 
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Sep 14, 2020 12:54
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StrixNebulosa posted:Being sloppy like that is completely unacceptable and I'm not comfortable with you defending it, Everyone. We have different tastes and triggers. LKH's polyandry fetish is way more creepy and gross to me than it is to you and that's okay. I don't think the "hips" thing is good and I really do wish Butcher had made his point in a different way (just say she's taller), but it's not a total deal-breaker and I don't think he was deliberately attempting to sexualize an underage character, even though I can see how it might have seemed that way. I will admit that I was comparing this scene and the one with Hope with other stuff he's done in the past with Molly and her GLORIOUS AWESOME CHESTICLES, so they didn't come off that bad in that light. If anything, I saw them as being better and more tasteful/subtle than previously. Everyone fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Sep 14, 2020 |
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Sep 14, 2020 18:10
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Everyone posted:We have different tastes and triggers. LKH's polyandry fetish is way more creepy and gross to me than it is to you and that's okay. I don't think the "hips" thing is good and I really do wish Butcher had made his point in a different way (just say she's taller), but it's not a total deal-breaker and I don't think he was deliberately attempting to sexualize an underage character, even though I can see how it might have seemed that way. Okay, uh, to be clear: I'm happily on the side of "your kink/fetish is not my kink/fetish" except when it comes to sexualizing children or basically anything to do with children, that's loving illegal and gross and I will not put up with it. Poly meanwhile might be a real red flag but it's between consenting adults who probably know what they're doing. So Butcher being sloppy in that description still isn't okay with me, like how the gently caress did he not realize what he was doing.
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Sep 14, 2020 18:13
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