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 They do have some speculative tech, to assist with certain species needs. And they probably have spaceships? At our level though. They have cell phones.
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Sep 16, 2020 04:35
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It's sci-fur
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Sep 16, 2020 06:41
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Easy, it's fantasy. It's a world like ours, but different in a few fundamental ways. The tech reflects those differences.
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Sep 16, 2020 09:18
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Its urban fantasy, so fantasy Its also a film that did not sit right with me at all at the time and I think considerably more of the US has caught up to that feeling. Barudak fucked around with this message at 10:15 on Sep 16, 2020 |
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Sep 16, 2020 10:08
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Barudak posted:Its urban fantasy, so fantasy It's truly an all-timer for a 'that aged poorly' film. The most scifi aspect of it is that there's a single city that air conditions an entire district right next to a superheated district, but since that could be anything from magic to mundane but expensive climate control, I don't think it matters.
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Sep 16, 2020 13:15
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It's fantasy. Even if you buy into the basic ideas (anthropomorphic animals? sure), there are WAY too many unanswered questions. Beginning with "what's keeping herbivore population in check?"
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Sep 16, 2020 15:43
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The fox eats grapes, therefore it is part of the classical canon.
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Sep 16, 2020 16:43
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I would call it fantasy except that it is constantly trying to justify the fantasy elements with some boring, internal, self-contradictory logic. "Cartoon animals living in a city and behaving like people" is so easy to imagine that it formed the foundation for popular animation 100 years ago, so the film ends up being a lot of very old jokes about ways animals are, but they can't really do any of the fun stuff cartoon characters can do, and all their character momentum is directed toward a plot with very dark and down-to earth themes. In fact, the themes of racial prejudice and rejecting stereotypes completely contradict hilarious, cutting edge jokes where lemmings eat a lot of popsicles all in order, and sloths are slow. It's like, it is technically fantasy, but it cannot possibly be because it is pulling back so hard from its natural fantasy elements. It's hard sci fi. Cobalt-60 posted:It's fantasy. the guy who shot bambi's mom
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Sep 16, 2020 16:43
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Super funny that the original concept for the movie got reworked hastily because test audiences saw the setting as a horrific dystopia
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Sep 16, 2020 16:52
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Cobalt-60 posted:It's fantasy. Well, the sign outside the rabbit town has a population counter that is just increasing wildly all the time, so it looks like "nothing." Nobody seems to be starving so I think we're just supposed to accept that the food production & distribution systems have massive capacity above and beyond the current population. Ghost Leviathan posted:Super funny that the original concept for the movie got reworked hastily because test audiences saw the setting as a horrific dystopia First I've heard of this, was the original concept better?
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Sep 16, 2020 16:57
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Original concept was way more specific about predators being controlled to the point of mandatory shock collars iirc, they had a young bear being given one on his 'bear mitzvah'
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Sep 16, 2020 16:59
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Original concept was way more specific about predators being controlled to the point of mandatory shock collars iirc, they had a young bear being given one on his 'bear mitzvah' More like Beastars (I haven't watched Beastars)? That's a massive change in not just tone but meaning, to the point of being totally incompatible. The main 'in' we have to understand Zootopia as having anything to say other than animation gags is that the predators are historically and politically privileged, so to have them be both the elite and under dramatic social restrictions is to tell a very different story.
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Sep 16, 2020 17:05
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The original treatment they aren't the elite, they're basically a hated minority group.
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Sep 16, 2020 17:51
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Barudak posted:The original treatment they aren't the elite, they're basically a hated minority group. Yeah, so it's a completely different social structure and thus different set of tropes and so on. Which is a hell of a thing to change at the last minute.
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Sep 16, 2020 18:51
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lol, get it. The purple stuff makes them super predators.
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Sep 16, 2020 19:53
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You know
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Sep 16, 2020 19:53
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like Hilary
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Sep 16, 2020 19:53
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Hilary Clinton
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Sep 16, 2020 19:53
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Tulip posted:It's truly an all-timer for a 'that aged poorly' film. 💯
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Sep 16, 2020 21:24
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It's a straight-up sequel to Sing, centuries later after the apocalypse. (edit: it's also criminal that it won Best Animated over Moana)
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Sep 16, 2020 22:01
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I haven't seen it, but if, other than the animal people, it's a contemporary society, wouldn't it just be fiction? Or is the big twist that everyone used to be human?
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Sep 17, 2020 00:57
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Maybe I missed it, but what are the carnivore animals supposed to eat if they live side by side with herbivores? Also why has no one in the entire internet mentioned that Nick the fox sells the Marlon Brando mouse a skunk skin rug? That's some Ed Gein poo poo.
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Sep 17, 2020 01:35
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Rabbit cop fights prejudice and bias regarding her small size to become a cop only to end up confronting prejudice and bias that she against normally carnivorous animals that she herself shared. Seems relevant to me. I'm not sure what the original plan for the plot was, but it sure was something. A lot less subtle about the oppression, but also a lot more of a stretched metaphor for real-world oppression. Not being able to get a bank loan because of being an oppressed minority is very real though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNY3TBMILgI Cobalt-60 posted:It's fantasy. Birth control. They're people. What's keeping the Irish population in check? Linux Pirate posted:Maybe I missed it, but what are the carnivore animals supposed to eat if they live side by side with herbivores? There's kind of a lot of kids' movies with talking animals that act like animals don't really have any dietary needs, they can all eat the same thing. But also I think only mammals are sentient in the movie, so fish, birds, bugs, bivalves.
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Sep 17, 2020 03:04
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It's Utopia/Dystopia, kinda like The Giver, so I think that puts it in Sci Fi. Utopia because it appears that a society caters to all of it's citizens needs equally, dystopian turn when it turns out there are still cops.
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Sep 17, 2020 04:09
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Cat Army
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Linux Pirate posted:Maybe I missed it, but what are the carnivore animals supposed to eat if they live side by side with herbivores? Human Beings.
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Sep 17, 2020 04:29
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it was funny when detective pikachu wound up being pretty much a remake of zootopia
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Sep 17, 2020 05:08
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Aglet56 posted:it was funny when detective pikachu wound up being pretty much a remake of zootopia and then disco elysium turned out to be a remake of detective pikachu
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Sep 17, 2020 06:39
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Ghost Leviathan posted:and then disco elysium turned out to be a remake of detective pikachu Having never played disco elysium, this is by far the most compelling thing I've heard about it
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Sep 17, 2020 07:17
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Linux Pirate posted:Maybe I missed it, but what are the carnivore animals supposed to eat if they live side by side with herbivores? They eat fish and birds since only mammals are anthropomorphic in the film universe. It's a better compromise than something like Kimba where they just bully all the other meat eaters into being vegetarians. Also since there were no humans there are no domesticated animal species like dogs or housecats in the movie.
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Sep 17, 2020 08:13
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ikanreed posted:lol, get it. The purple stuff makes them super predators. they must be brought to hoof
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Sep 17, 2020 10:20
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Some Goon posted:I haven't seen it, but if, other than the animal people, it's a contemporary society, wouldn't it just be fiction? Or is the big twist that everyone used to be human? Yeah it's probably not worth trying to fit it into the major genre fiction traditions. There's something to be gained by comparing it to movies like Ringing Bell or even just stuff from Aesop's Fables, and ikanreed probably brings up the most salient point about what the movie is. That said this really is interesting to me Barudak posted:The original treatment they aren't the elite, they're basically a hated minority group. Because in the movie as released, the big supervillain speech is centered around how predators hold the majority of power. So instead of the sheep being the Hillary Clinton to the lion's Barack Obama, the sheep is the member of the marginalized group working tirelessly for the default accepted white guy in power. This reverberates down the plot - the predator attacks move from being like, Reaganite fear/fiction of black-on-white crime to having more in common with white supremacist terror attacks. Which leads to one of the two main lessons of the movie being pretty loving gross - the plot of the movie becomes that terrorist attacks by the political elite on the political minority are the result of political machinations on the part of the political minority. Like if somebody blamed KKK attacks on Al Sharpton or Frederick Douglass. (The other main lesson is also pretty bad - that civilian government power needs to be held in check by police forces.) If the production made such an abrupt change - nearly a 180 - would explain how this gets muddled weirdly. There's scenes that imply that the prey animals are the privileged group, like Nick being bullied as a kid or Judy's "you're one of the good ones" line, even though they run contrary to the central villain thesis. These parts make more sense as remnants of the previous draft. But in the case of a pretty blunt race allegory, switching things around has some fairly negative repercussions.
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Sep 17, 2020 13:29
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Handling of fictional race relations in sci-fi or fantasy settings tends to be incredibly fraught at best. (see the Avatar thread) The allegory in Zootopia ends up at best confused, and maybe more sexism than racism, but honestly I don't think the writers even knew. Funny thing is that they basically fumbled with what furry webcomics have been dealing with for decades plural at this point.
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Sep 17, 2020 13:55
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Handling of fictional race relations in sci-fi or fantasy settings tends to be incredibly fraught at best. (see the Avatar thread) The allegory in Zootopia ends up at best confused, and maybe more sexism than racism, but honestly I don't think the writers even knew. Dreaming of Zootopia
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Sep 17, 2020 13:59
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The fact that the predator/prey dynamic in Zootopia doesn't map 1/1 to any particular real world form of systemic oppression is the entire reason the movie works. Kids might need to discuss it with their parents to get that but I would hope an adult would recognize that and be able to explain it to them.
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Sep 17, 2020 15:52
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It does however let the film let the main cop make unquestioned racist as hell and wrong statements and face zero repercussions and the mayor get out of jail despite running a kidnapping ring. Poor Shakira her character was supposed to be the heart of the movie but well she's just a big weird focus with no point in the final version
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Sep 17, 2020 15:54
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SlothfulCobra posted:Birth control. They're people. What's keeping the Irish population in check? until 100 years ago, the UK
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Sep 17, 2020 16:58
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Just because the mayor is I think the size bias is more confusing, because there's a whole segment of the city that's even smaller than Judy so I guess there's just no police for them? And that may be why one of them is a mob boss.
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Sep 17, 2020 17:58
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The predator thing works really well as an ableism metaphor, especially for mental health. There are people who through no fault of their own have a greater capacity to harm themselves and others but are also fully capable of living a safe and fulfilling life and there are people who would rather dehumanize them (literally, in the case of the berries that make the predators revert to a feral and bloodthirsty state against their will) and then use that to justify eliminating them from society for their own selfish ends instead of allowing them to be accommodated.
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Sep 17, 2020 18:37
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Sleeveless posted:The fact that the predator/prey dynamic in Zootopia doesn't map 1/1 to any particular real world form of systemic oppression is the entire reason the movie works. Kids might need to discuss it with their parents to get that but I would hope an adult would recognize that and be able to explain it to them. I think this point is worth emphasizing. If you take Zootopia as a 1:1 mapping to the real world it looks like a mess. If you think of it as a fable, then it works perfectly. This also answers the original question too: is Zootopia sci-fi or fantasy? It's neither, it's a fable. This is a good read on fables. The "Life of Aesop" portion is especially worth reading. Think about what Zootopia tells us by having Judy as a central character. Then think about Disney and its place in the world. Aesop being a slave and Judy being a cop aren't accidents. That's also why a lot of people react negatively to Zootopia: because it isn't meant for them. Aesop being a slave tells us the intended audience for Aesop's fables. Judy being a cop from a rural (though it often reads suburban) background tells us the intended audience for Zootopia. Incelshok Na fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Sep 17, 2020 |
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Sep 17, 2020 19:49
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Barudak posted:It does however let the film let the main cop make unquestioned racist as hell and wrong statements and face zero repercussions and the mayor get out of jail despite running a kidnapping ring. The mayor is still in jail at the end.
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Sep 17, 2020 23:28
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