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15 order cap is the single best decision they could've made to deal with the spam for good Tac Window was a breath of fresh air for list diversity and now they can design around it in full New Tankhunters suck rear end though, upping cost on not-that-awesome units and cutting price while buffing monsters like Su Jian is not what I expect from new edition updates honestly Cat Face Joe posted:Corvus built Hassassin Bahram around a specific, asymmetrical play style. The ability to field a bunch of cheap units to trade up with is perfectly valid. With this limitation in place and the previews of new units they've basically made it RTF2. HB players here dont use anything but ghulams+asawira/muyib haris and daylami spam with some fidays, maybe now they will learn their army has other units other than coinflip fuckers also I am thinking of trading for some HB minis because finally their force might look like badass freemen and not a horde and the new tag rules fatherboxx fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Sep 10, 2020 |
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Sep 10, 2020 22:03
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Cat Face Joe posted:That, the focus on jammers when smoke causes way more issues, Jammers are hated by the community and needed to be addressed. I don't think they were too strong, but they were very strong and required some very counterintuitive steps to work around - steps that many less experienced players straight couldn't get their heads around in the limited number of games they had. They needed a nerf from a gamefeel perspective, same as symbiomates. quote:link teams with wildcard ruling builds, Why is this a problem? quote:putting important rules in places you'd never look for them, Denesting rules is the flagship feature of the new edition. quote:releasing new units when old ones aren't fixed, corvus belli is a company that wants to make money and that means selling new units hth quote:proliferation of named or unique characters across all armies, An entirely subjective problem. quote:sectorials sectorials sectorials sectorials, quote:armies continuing to become more and more "the same". These two complaints are incoherent to have in parallel. Each sectorial is a completely unique army and each one presents a new, diverse challenge. Look, your arguments are random mix of subjective opinion and incorrect takes on what's competitive. Everything I've seen about the new edition has me extremely excited as a competitive player. They've made a number of small, deliberate changes that will have really big ripple-on impacts and naturally push armies to be more elite and focused. Ending chain rifle hell is implicit in a 15 order cap which opens the door to a lot more unit variety. HMGs have been dethroned as the one-and-only gun with the change to critical hit rules and how that interacts with TAGs, meaning taking things like feurbachs is a serious consideration for armies. These are very carefully thought through and targeted changes and they're going to make the game way better.
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Sep 10, 2020 22:04
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Maybe we can wait for the actual N4 rules and Army release before passing judgement.
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Sep 10, 2020 22:07
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Cat Face Joe posted:15 orders max is an overreaction to the fallacy that two full order groups were dragging down the game. If you have a player who takes too long with 20 orders, they'll probably take too long with 10 orders. We had a 60 person tournament last year and not one game went over because someone had "too many orders". When that one guy with the three or four group list lost won that tournament it showed that large order groups are a manageable play style but instead everyone wrung their hands and cried fat tears over fears that this would somehow become the new normal. Cat Face Joe posted:That, the focus on jammers when smoke causes way more issues, link teams with wildcard ruling builds, putting important rules in places you'd never look for them, sectorials sectorials sectorials sectorials, releasing new units when old ones aren't fixed, proliferation of named or unique characters across all armies, armies continuing to become more and more "the same". There's lots and these previews are giving little indication that they'll be fixed. So, as some other people have stated, I think the 15 order limit is a sensible change to curtail 20+ order lists. Not because they take too long (I never even considered that as a reason behind it) but because they are the dominant style of competitive play. That in turn makes the cheapest units in factions into auto-takes, it elevates factions which can access good cheap units, it suppresses variety in the game, because armies are more likely to consist of several good pieces and then as much chaff as possible. Infinity's order/activation system obviously incentivises not having a selection of totally equal models, but you have to admit the balance was too far towards chaff. Many of the best players I know wouldn't play an army that didn't have good options to hit 18+ orders, unless specifically to challenge themselves. I don't think that access to a couple high-AVA, good cheap units alone is what defines Hassassin Bahram, I'd quite like to see a variety of cool assassins and not just a couple point men for the Mutt/Daylami squad. I don't think the utility of jammers in the reactive turn is at all similar to smoke, since it didn't require LoS and could cripple a model rather than stopping its effect in one spot, and it was their reactive turn which frustrated people. I do think you have some points about the pace of new units and sectorials running ahead of their capacity to update and balance things. But I can see why they do it. People like new stuff, period. Got to have some new concepts added to keep things fresh. I think most mini games will run into this at some point. Don't know what the answer is. Ruthless cutting of old stuff (which is essentially how most creative media, eg. video games work, spread over sequels) leads to great wailing and gnashing of teeth. But the game can't just stay with the same units and resculpting old models, it will die. I hope the eventual number of Sectorials will level off when they reach the limits of fluff they've written in. Eg Nomads don't seem to have any scope or desire to go beyond the 3 ship sectorials. It's a shame the current number runs beyond their ability to produce models, but I'm reconciled to it. I agree that Wildcard/character profusion isn't my favourite thing. Hardly strangling the game though, is it? While all armies are getting more stuff, and you could say that is blurring the distinctions, well, that's more choice for you. I personally really like that Infinity is a game where factions draw on a common pool of kit. The possible combinations of stats/weapons/equipment/skills is so broad that many specialist units are still likely to remain unique or nearly unique. I don't see a lack of variety in the armies I play against. fatherboxx posted:15 order cap is the single best decision they could've made to deal with the spam for good Totally agree about 15 models, and also a bit concerned about the balance changes. Guess we'll wait and see. I prefer to keep in mind that while Infinity's balance isn't perfect, experienced players can and do identify the optimum profiles, it's pretty drat good and a head above most other wargames. Mugaaz posted:Maybe we can wait for the actual N4 rules and Army release before passing judgement. Fair.
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Sep 10, 2020 23:47
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I'm gonna endorse default Tactical window because while I liked playing lists with 16-19 orders it wasn't any fun to play against. Sucks when you run up against another guy with just as many orders in a tournament and know the game's only gonna be two turns. I think roster size as a resource is going to make armies more diverse... in N3, if I had ten points left at the end of a list, I'd buy another morlock and a warcor, full stop. Other sectorials have the same thing - there was no situation where you didn't want two more highlanders, or another jaguar, or another grunt infiltrator. Now you might have a reason to take something like a multi-rifle, since your roster's full.
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Sep 11, 2020 00:19
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Under 15 posted:I'm gonna endorse default Tactical window because while I liked playing lists with 16-19 orders it wasn't any fun to play against. Sucks when you run up against another guy with just as many orders in a tournament and know the game's only gonna be two turns. The meta shift will be huge. Drop troops, for example, become way more viable when there's not six eyeballs on every single possible spot in your opponent's DZ.
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Sep 11, 2020 01:13
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Thanqol posted:The meta shift will be huge. Drop troops, for example, become way more viable when there's not six eyeballs on every single possible spot in your opponent's DZ. I absolutely adore using drop troops and in my vanilla pan o lists I take the crusader bro and akali a lot. They're just so good. I'm so excited to play them in N4. IDK they need to do less to pay for themselves than many other units in the game, I think people really underestimated them in n3 because dropping them into position, even if it's only to delete one guy, is like 2-4 orders saved.
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Sep 11, 2020 01:24
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Default tactical window is a huge improvement not because of time management but because of how brain dead and forgiving they are to play. Not a dig directly at Ariadna players specifically but those type of lists are very easy to play and very forgiving in a way that warps the game around it. In a game designed around resource and risk management with the ARO system, being able to throw models with no real regard to them because you have so many is a big issue.
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Sep 11, 2020 01:33
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Toalpaz posted:I absolutely adore using drop troops and in my vanilla pan o lists I take the crusader bro and akali a lot. They're just so good. I'm so excited to play them in N4. IDK they need to do less to pay for themselves than many other units in the game, I think people really underestimated them in n3 because dropping them into position, even if it's only to delete one guy, is like 2-4 orders saved. I love using them too, they feel really exciting to put into play.
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Sep 11, 2020 02:21
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I said come in! posted:Do any of you play over Table Top Simulator? I was wondering if someone could sit down with me over Discord and teach me the rules with TTS? Yeah, I've run a couple of leagues over TTS now and have a few dozen games under the belt (woo lock down). If you're anywhere near the +10GMT timezone I'd be happy to show you the ropes.
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Sep 11, 2020 04:24
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I was thinking about picking up one of the iniation sets for something to paint/play during quarantine. How are they as play experiences? The models in Coldfront appeal to me the most, but it looks like it is out of stock in most places, is that just a supply chain issue or is it being discontinued with the new edition?
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Sep 11, 2020 15:23
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neaden posted:I was thinking about picking up one of the iniation sets for something to paint/play during quarantine. How are they as play experiences? The models in Coldfront appeal to me the most, but it looks like it is out of stock in most places, is that just a supply chain issue or is it being discontinued with the new edition? Coldfront is discontinued but the Ariadna/TAK half of it (plus the expansion) will be sold as an "action pack" in October
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Sep 11, 2020 15:29
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fatherboxx posted:Coldfront is discontinued but the Ariadna/TAK half of it (plus the expansion) will be sold as an "action pack" in October Hm, I would want both sides to have a play experiences. Is Kaldstorm going to be the only initiation set then?
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Sep 11, 2020 15:31
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For the near future, yeah. There'll be a new one in the next 6ish months, rumours are probably nomads v aleph, but who knows. They've moved to only having one introduction box in print at a time, nominally to keep shelf space down for retailers. If you're keen it'll be fairly easy to find older ones on second hand groups.
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Sep 11, 2020 16:09
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Operation Wildfire is still pretty easy to find, despite being repackaged/resold
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Sep 11, 2020 16:19
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New seminar/previews on FB. Corregidor get (as far as my Spanish can make out) 1W NWI/shock immune HI built for generalist gunfighting (and all have haris) with engineer options, the Evaders; and another NWI unit, the Sombras, with camo and 8" fwd deployment, with some good gunfighter and hacker options. All Nomads, presumably, can draw on the new Vostok remotes, 2STR, armoured with Albedo and - 6mimetism options. I am extremely content.
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Sep 11, 2020 20:55
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And an English video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNN11tv-VSo New stuff look pretty dope, I especially like the Vostok.
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Sep 11, 2020 21:14
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New Shas sculpts look baller as does the Cheer killers, posting from phone so not pics.
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Sep 11, 2020 21:15
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Autodrop Monteur posted:And an English video: drat right. I mean, it's not even that much more than the Tsyklon, and 2Str is huge, plus the excellent special rules. And climbing plus continues as a faction strength! Guess we'll see how points (and support ware) change in N4. But currently a B5 red fury you can buff up, w/albedo, seems like a great attack piece. Flipswitch posted:New Shas sculpts look baller as does the Cheer killers, posting from phone so not pics. See I love the look of O-12 models, to the extent I'm considering buying into the faction. Shas also great, but I can't stand the silly cheerleaders or indeed the mincing Grenzer pose.
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Sep 11, 2020 21:28
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I like the cheerkillers, and the cloak on the Lynx is incredible looking.
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Sep 11, 2020 21:37
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Genghis Cohen posted:See I love the look of O-12 models, to the extent I'm considering buying into the faction. I really like the new sculpts, I think I'll get them just to paint and use them as proxies or something. Not looking at starting another army right now.
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Sep 11, 2020 21:52
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I swear, CB is trying to turn me to Nomads. They keep getting cool stuff. Vostok profiles are so fun looking. Cheerkillers are still hilarious to me. Other profile tweaks they've talked about are exciting. I think I'm still more excited for Cosmoflot and my hopes for JSA, but man. Depending on how N4 shakes out for the rest of Nomads, I might be interested. Heh.
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Sep 11, 2020 22:18
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Cheerkillers actually look like decent sculpts for a change. They don't even have combat heels! I'm also surprised how enthusiastic I am for Guard to be potentially useful, too. It's pretty much just fluff, but I like the idea of a melee bubble beyond base-to-base.
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Sep 12, 2020 00:21
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Had a quick check-up on the CB forums this morning for a laugh. Yu Jing in complete melt-down over the Nomad profiles being better than their stuff. HIlarious. Really pronounced mindset of being persecuted which loads of people seem to buy into. I don't get it, vanilla Yu Jing is probably the best tournament army in the game?
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Sep 12, 2020 09:49
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It's been like that since forever - there's a real victim complex lmao.
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Sep 12, 2020 10:18
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Genghis Cohen posted:Had a quick check-up on the CB forums this morning for a laugh. Yu Jing in complete melt-down over the Nomad profiles being better than their stuff. HIlarious. Really pronounced mindset of being persecuted which loads of people seem to buy into. I don't get it, vanilla Yu Jing is probably the best tournament army in the game? Vanilla Yu Jing is absolutely the best tournament army in the game and the Yu Jing section of the CB forums is that "Paradox tore away my ability to feel human" post writ large.
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Sep 12, 2020 11:11
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It's not entirely unjustified. Now that Steel Phalanx is dead, YJ players are the group that deserves bullying the most after MO.
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Sep 12, 2020 15:55
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I'll definitely say locally at least that yu Jing attracts the most salty try Hards of the bunch
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Sep 12, 2020 16:03
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I really don't get why people say the armies are dead when they're just out of production. You will still play against them. 
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Sep 12, 2020 17:05
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Genghis Cohen posted:Had a quick check-up on the CB forums this morning for a laugh. Yu Jing in complete melt-down over the Nomad profiles being better than their stuff. HIlarious. Really pronounced mindset of being persecuted which loads of people seem to buy into. I don't get it, vanilla Yu Jing is probably the best tournament army in the game? Just morons who refuse to let go of their dream of a functional full HI list without drawback and pretend that anti-HI hacking is opressive in N3 Yeah, vanilla yj is extremely tier 1 thanks to Long Ya
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Sep 12, 2020 17:13
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fatherboxx posted:Just morons who refuse to let go of their dream of a functional full HI list without drawback 
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Sep 12, 2020 18:53
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Pierzak posted:IA's gonna get a real buff in the new 15-order mode though IA is also pretty good.......... as it is............. its very very good now with tactical window crit change and mutt debuff.
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Sep 12, 2020 19:22
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On top of that, HI is getting cheaper in general. Looks like IA will be in a good place. YJ players are still upset about uprising despite getting all kinds of fancy new stuff. Haven't seen much White Banner in play yet in my local meta, but all other YJ sectorials and vanilla have been doing well over here.
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Sep 12, 2020 20:05
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I think IA is gonna be in an okay place, now that armor means more, and if costs drop some that'll be good. Course, with hacking changes they may actually be more vulnerable to that if what I've heard/seen is right. Or maybe not more vulnerable, but more access by hackers that can attack them instead of worrying really about 1 AHD.
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Sep 12, 2020 20:56
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Autodrop Monteur posted:YJ players are still upset about uprising I just decided to treat my JSA as still loyal and ignore the whole Uprising fluff. And not buy any more fluff books. 
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Sep 12, 2020 22:41
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I don't play YJ, and armies getting discountinued doesn't bother me. I play CA, and I would be pretty loving salty if they decided one of the CA sectorials left the main army for <reasons>. I get why it happened, but it still seems crazy to me. I can't fault people for being salty about it still.
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Sep 12, 2020 22:46
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Pierzak posted:And not buy any more fluff books. This is the correct take
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Sep 12, 2020 23:03
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I just purchased operation kaldstrom on a whim and now I'm panicking. I have no hobby supplies and no skill at painting. The terrain is cool tho.
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Sep 18, 2020 04:38
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HardKase posted:I just purchased operation kaldstrom on a whim and now I'm panicking. I have no hobby supplies and no skill at painting. The terrain is such a pain in the rear end to put together! But this set is great because its enough for two people to play together. Painting the miniatures is fun, and we can help you when you are ready.
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Sep 18, 2020 06:08
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HardKase posted:I just purchased operation kaldstrom on a whim and now I'm panicking. I have no hobby supplies and no skill at painting. I have multiple infinity armies sitting unpainted in my closet. Take a deep breath, get some superglue, put your starter together, and have fun. The painting will wait for when you're ready.
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Sep 18, 2020 07:34
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