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quote:CHAPTER TWENTY-ONE Oh thank goodness we don't have to read about all five men getting fitted as well! quote:He'd actually had clothes fitted to him, by a professional who did nothing but produce clothes. All his life his mother had made his clothes, and if they hadn't fit quite right, well, at least they were too big rather than too small. During his growing years the clothes had usually become too small too fast, so his mother had gotten into the habit of making things too big to be outgrown before they were worn out. And the material that was supposed to be so cheap ... he hadn't the nerve to admit the clothes would be the best things he'd ever owned. Actually good characterization. quote:"Then you ought to make a very successful rich man," Clarion Mardimil told him with the heavy annoyance that wasn't aimed at their group. "Those people were quite impossible, treating us like so many cattle from a nearby field. My personal tailor would have screamed in horror had he been here to watch them." To be fair, you guys ARE cattle from their perspective. I still have no clue why they are getting tailored uniforms at all. This seems like an unnecessary expense for a group of people that - from the perspective of the nobles running the show - are going to be eventually killed off during the course of qualifying/the competitions and/or Book 4 spoilers enslaved in the army. quote:"Even my tailor would have been outraged, and he's normally a very calm man," Eskin Drowd agreed, his tone dry and almost as annoyed as Clarion's. "Not to mention what they charged for the rags they'll be delivering tomorrow. All I have left is a single pair of silver dins." What kind of academic are you? Most academics don't have a lot of money! quote:"That's all I have left as well," Vallant Ro put in with a frown. "Did they leave any of us with more?" I'm having trouble imagining any other reason why you would learn this skill. I suppose it'd come in handy if you were told to open/close the shop till at the beginning/end of the day but who carries so much petty cash float that it'd be a serious enough chore to count it such that you require employing people with this specific talent? quote:"I have a feelin' this was done especially for our benefit," Vallant Ro said with a growl, glancing back at the tailor shop with an angry glare. "If I thought they were doin' it on their own I'd go back in, but somethin' tells me it has to do with those people runnin' the tests. They don't want us havin' money, but that's too bad about 'em. As soon as I get to the bank, I'll have all I need." Vallant:  quote:"And I," Clarion agreed with matching satisfaction. "If today and tomorrow weren't rest days I'd go straight there right now, but since they are I'll simply have to wait until the day after. In the interim I'll need to think of myself as penniless, for what can one do with just two silver dins?" If you were not smart and brought all of your money, at this point you guys can't even afford meals for the next week. Clarion's not wrong when he says that they're basically penniless but now they're gonna go hit the town in a law abiding way. This is very Bad With Money. Also what is with Lorand constantly referring to everyone in his head by their full name? He's just spent the entire day with these people; we should be beyond full names now. quote:The way he'd stared for a moment had been odd, as if he were trying to swallow down some kind of jealousy. "We all passed those wretched tests, and I for one would enjoy celebrating rather than returning to the residence for another early night. Are we all in agreement about that?" Sloppy foreshadowing! quote:"I think I might be best off not joining you," Lorand forced himself to say amid the general happy agreement. "Two silver dins are a lot better than none, and for me going to the bank would be useless. Why don't I just walk back to the residence, and—" Lorand is the only fiscally responsible one here. quote:"Nonsense, man, I won't hear of it," Mardimil interrupted, actually looking outraged. "Your efforts were no less than those of the rest of us, which means you're entitled to the same good time. When I visit the bank I mean to withdraw gold, therefore allow me the privilege of pledging to replace your dins. That should allow you to spend your own now with an easy heart." I'm just picturing four white guys leaning out of a quote:"I must admit that this will be a new experience for me," Drowd said, absently slipping his tag on its chain inside his shirt. "My friends and I often met to drink tea and discuss any number of fascinating ideas and facts, but never to . . . carouse. In my circle it simply wasn't done, but I've always been curious." Bet Green was super excited to kick off this sequence! I've had the fortune of being able to visit Amsterdam a few years ago - which means obligatory gawking tourist visit to the red light district. All of the negotiations took place on the street - the sex workers generally stood in provocative poses in their glass boxes and people would walk up to the doors and signal their interest. At that point, the sex worker would open the door just enough to begin verbal negotiations. Most people seemed to be fairly respectful of both the process and the sex workers, though I did see one drunk stoner roaming around with a posse make a lowball offer. The door slammed shut in his face so fast that I would have missed it if I hadn't happened to be looking in that direction. Minor spoilers for magic in Book 3 relating to sex work: Jovvi later tells Tamrissa that Spirit and Fire are the two most desirable aspects for courtesans. Personally, I'm not sure why Earth magic isn't ranked up there as well; you'd be able to tell whether your customer is carrying enough money to meet your price, you'd be able to control their body (good for customer experience and for personal safety) and you'd have healing powers over yourself, so you could probably prevent unwanted pregnancies and cure any STIs. That sounds like a no brainer to me! quote:"I feel like a small boy on holiday in a sweets shop, determined to enjoy myself until I'm too stuffed to move. It's amazing what a strong sense of freedom one acquires when one first escapes strong parental restrictions." These guys are being forced to live together after they each went through individually life endangering trials that they are not allowed to talk about, and have known each other for a day. Uniform fitting is not so terrible an ordeal that they should have developed any common bonds as a group; the only people who have any sort of rapport are Lorand and Clarion (in their budding broship), and Clarion and Vallant (on their mutual agreement to escape the situation). I know Green's just trying to keep coming back to her theme here, but who actually talks like this to people they barely know?  quote:"I believe I shall also admit that I have no experience with this thing called carousing," Mardimil said abruptly into the thickened silence. "Those of my class never indulge in such things, of course, so I find myself curious to know what will be involved." It's going exactly where you think it's going. quote:"I've never met a noble yet who didn't believe in indulging himself," Drowd said with a snort for Lorand's suggestion. "They tend to believe that the world and all the people in it are theirs for the taking and using, and most often they can prove the contention. How about showing us this instead of telling us lazily via dialogue? quote:Not that I'm really complaining, of course. When I become one of them, I mean to do the same myself." Drowd is despicable. quote:"So you've decided the game is worth your full effort?" Ro asked , finally turning from the window to examine Drowd. "I thought you considered the life of an academician the best a man could strive for." Why couldn't we have had this conversation last night? quote:I take it the situation holds no attraction for the rest of you?" So far the only reasons any of these characters are interested in being part of the ruling Blending are power and security - there is no difference between the protagonists' motivations and the antagonists. This is how shallow Green's characterization is. quote:"What about Mardimil's earlier objection?" Lorand found himself asking, just to hear Drowd's view of the matter. "Every Blending I've heard about for the last century or so has come from the ranks of the nobility. What makes you believe that things will be different this time?" Why didn't you raise this point last night, Mr Logical? You would have saved us from having to read a lot of internal monologuing over this stupid line of reasoning. quote:And how do you think the people who call themselves noble got that way in the first place? At some point in time, their ancestors were just as common as everyone else—until they found it possible to prove otherwise. It was their efforts which gave their descendants the free ride they now enjoy, so why can't I do the same for my descendants?" The whole point of this is to make us like Clarion. It's working. Sadly, none of the other attempts to make us sympathize with the other protagonists will work as well as this. quote:"Some people do," Ro commented, looking out the window again. "And I think we've arrived." We're so far up the pyramid of abstraction that I couldn't pick this tavern out of a line up. quote:Holter had gotten down from the box and come around to open the door, but Lorand had to nudge Mardimil when it was the lord's turn to leave the coach. Mardimil seemed really upset, and Lorand couldn't understand that. No noble wanted to admit that his ancestors had been commoners at one time, but they certainly all knew it. All but Mardimil, apparently, who looked like the sky had fallen on his head. What, no Earth magic analogy? quote:When Lorand finally made it out of the coach, the others were already following Holter through the unpainted wooden door of the brick building. Inside it was a lot dimmer than the late-afternoon sunshine, and it took Lorand's eyes a moment to adjust. Then he was able to look around to see a place that seemed little different from the posting house the men in his home district gathered in on rest days. I had to Wikipedia what a posting house is. quote:The area they'd come into was one large room, with hearths to both the left and the right separated by scattered tables and chairs. The hearth to the right was unlit and the benches near it unoccupied, but the one to the left had the usual workers preparing for the upcoming meal. A good-sized pig was spitted above the fire, and the way two of the workers kept glancing at it while they prepared salads and such said they were the ones turning the spit. Air magic was useful for that sort of thing, letting the workers turn the spit without actually touching it. And usually there was one with Fire magic, who oversaw the cooking fire to be sure the animal on the spit roasted evenly. At last, a description of the setting that I actually find interesting because Green's followed through on her premise and thought about how it would impact the world building! The implication is that because everyone has magical talent and it's very commonplace, things we would normally develop mechanical solutions for don't necessarily exist because people in this world simply use magic instead. Logically then, technological solutions would exist when: 1) it takes too much magic to construct/maintain/pay for a magical solution; and/or 2) it's too complex to be easily handled with magic; and/or 3) economies of scale are required Green will explore this in Book 6; sadly the secondary character involved decides to do something else for plot reasons. quote:"Hey, Holter, you cur, where you been?" a deep voice boomed out from behind the bar. "We ain't seen you in almost a week, an' some been sayin' yer too good now t'mix with yer old friends." Lorand being observant for the first time in his POVs! quote:Ginge came out from behind the bar to personally lead them to a large table to the right, far enough away from the cooking and preparing that they wouldn't be disturbed by it. He also gestured to a boy standing behind the bar, who then came out to take up a complex-looking stringed instrument. As a musician, I am FASCINATED by this application of magic and yes, I would totally choose Air magic to be my aspect. Rachmaninov's piano works would no longer be unplayable for one! (that man had gigantic hands and wrote his music requiring hands that can span ten notes at a time on the keyboard which is physically impossible for me  )quote:Holter interrupted their appreciation of the music by demanding the silver dins each of them had been left with. Once he had them he went to the bar where his friend had already returned, and engaged in a brief, low-voiced conversation. At the end of it he handed over all the silver including his own, then returned to the table with a very satisfied smile. It is a cardinal rule of Green's books that we count how many people agree with a proposed course of action every time. quote:Lorand had the distinct feeling that the young noble had more than one thing upsetting him, which meant he'd have to find the opportunity to speak to Mardimil alone. Lorand could believe that Mardimil had never had any friends, and he'd all but promised to be the first. It was enough that he'd let one friend down, if only by forgetting about him when he was certainly dead. Lorand now needed to be a friend as badly as Mardimil needed to have one. Bros before hoes, literally. quote:But the first cups of brew served turned out to be really good, almost as good, in fact, as the music. Lorand sat back and decided to wait a short while before looking for a chance to talk to Mardimil privately. That was mostly because he now knew the time with the ladies was really going to happen, and the thought of visiting the girls upstairs had warmed him a bit. It still felt faintly wrong, but being in Gan Garee also made it oddly acceptable. Nothing a man should do at home, but here in the wicked big city . . . which was supposed to end up being home. . . . Note how blasé Lorand is being about paid casual sex right now. We'll dig into it more when we get to Chapter 27. quote:Lorand took another swallow of brew, which helped him to ignore the confusion his thoughts were turning into. Tomorrow he'd sort out which was what, but tonight he'd have a wonderful time, if only to honor the memory of Hat. If it weren't for this closing line, you wouldn't be able to tell that Lorand is in Summary: Day 2 After an angsty, silent breakfast where everyone is stewing in their own thoughts, and a lunch with boring small talk, everyone is taken to be fitted for their Grown Up Magic Not-School Uniforms. Jovvi deliberately alienates Eskin and Beldara so Green can establish the best friendship of Jovvi and Tamrissa. Clarion outs himself as a literal man child on the way to a tavern. Counts so far: NAMED ON-SCREEN CHARACTERS WHO WE'LL NEVER SEE AGAIN: 14 Mildon Coll, Phor Riven, Jeris Womal, Eldra Sappin, Fod, Lord Astrath, Torrin Ro, Vish "the Fish", Jamrin, Hark, Reshin, Fellar, Ennis, Vosin, Parli Hafford, Regensi TOTALLY INDISTINCT ON-SCREEN LOCATIONS: 6 Rincammon, Haven Wraithside, Tamrissa's house in Gan Garee, Port Entril, testing facility in Gan Garee, Regensi's shop, Ginge's tavern MEALS ON-SCREEN: 4 Day 1 (lunch, dinner), Day 2 (breakfast, lunch, dinner) PLOTHOLES: 16 COACH RIDES: 12 MEETINGS IN COACHES: 3 OTHER MEETINGS: 1 INTERRUPTED MONOLOGUING: 16 "CLIFFHANGERS": 8 POINTLESS TAMRISSA NARRATION: 8 TEA DRINKING: 2 BLATANT MORALIZING: 11 BATH SCENES: 5 WILFUL MISUNDERSTANDINGS: 4 MIND CONTROL: 5 REPETITIVE POV EVENTS:
Possible fixes: One of the better chapters we've had in a while! There were a few nice character moments and two paragraphs of decent world building. This tavern sequence (Chapters 21-23) is trying to achieve three main things: 1) set up Lorand's discomfort with paid sex work for his romance arc with Jovvi 2) give Lorand a big brother moment to build on his budding broship with Clarion 3) establish a general fear of High talents Assuming the sequence doesn't get nixed as a result of bigger changes to character arcs, I'd combine the three tavern chapters into a single chapter. The scenes with the group musing at the tailor's shop and the coach ride can be skipped in favor of opening with the men already in the tavern, beers in hand, engaging in serious locker room talk (assuming I don't  while trying to write it). That's maybe 2-3 pages of dialogue, max.
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Sep 7, 2020 02:22
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I think cutting the sex mechanic is fine because it's not like there isn't enough going on in the rest of the plot that you must have a romance subplot. But good romance is about relationships between people above all else. Human interaction is the plot so if you can write a compelling friendship than you're more than halfway to writing romance because they rely on the same questions. Why do these people like each other? What brings them together? Why do they trust each other, and how do they rely on each other? So with that in mind, the way to accomplish 3 is to do what Green did and group the romance subplots by their function so you then figure out how much time you need to devote to them. You've essentially got three groups, the primary romances, the friends with benefits hookups, and then the necessary balancing out of the Blending. The Primary romances are your heavy-hitters plot wise. It's the emotional buy-in that's going to eventually lead to this group coming together and shows how each person is as member of a relationship and sexual partner. The other two show how the transition from friends to polycule is done. FWBs cover the people that just naturally click and it's easy, while balancing is the ones who need a little motivation or are actively struggling with the idea. So to make that work with even more pairings you'd want to 1. Make it a world where gay and bisexual identities are already to some degree known and accepted so you don't have to deal with a fundamental change in everyone's perspective to get them to see and accept sex with partners of the same gender. 2. Make at least two characters bisexual already. I'd recommend Valant and Jodi since they're the more worldly ones who've had multiple relationships. 3. Don't start with everyone in a primary monogamous relationship. Have some overlaps to drive the characters towards open relationships that will eventually lead to the full polycule. -Jodi wants to start her own whorehouse and either out of custom or personal preference she wants a female partner which makes her pursue Tamrissa. -Tamrissa is coming out of an abusive marriage with a man and is intrigued at the idea of having a relationship with another woman, but she's also got this hot-and-cold attraction to Valant. -Valant shares the hot/cold thing, but wants to swear off all women after his bad breakup and so has a casual thing with Rion because why not. -Rion is a naive virgin but it also means he does not have a lot of hangups around sex, so takes to easy pansexual FWB really quickly. He also hooks up with Jodi early because why not, and Tamrissa because she trusts him to have a casual but safe sexual experience as part of healing from the trauma of her abuse. -Lorand's conservative upbringing means he has a lot of hangups which leave him pining after Jodi and get in the way of him having any romantic relationships until later in the series. Make him the one that hooks up with Naran at first since he's the one who has to go outside the group for sex. -Naran is experienced and sexually confident in a way that makes her eventual integration into the polycule smooth and easy. She should have a positive interaction with each member of the group individually from each other so everyone can be like "oh, that cool chick I'm already predisposed to like" when they need her to round out the floating energyball thing. So your primary romances are the Jodi/Tamrissa/Valant love triangle, and Lorand's one sided thing for Jodi. FWB is Rion/most everyone else and Lorand/Naran, and balancing is Lorand/most everyone, Valant/Jodi, and Naran/someone/multiple someones however that works out. Include group sex and you can compress it all further.
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Sep 7, 2020 03:34
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there wolf posted:So your primary romances are the Jodi/Tamrissa/Valant love triangle, and Lorand's one sided thing for Jodi. FWB is Rion/most everyone else and Lorand/Naran, and balancing is Lorand/most everyone, Valant/Jodi, and Naran/someone/multiple someones however that works out. Include group sex and you can compress it all further.  This is awesome and I bow down to a master. It shall be done, even if my execution is terrible. Nobody improves without critique, right??
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Sep 7, 2020 08:53
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Here's the chapter you've all been waiting for!quote:CHAPTER TWENTY-TWO Poor Clarion. You've already outed yourself in the previous chapter, you just don't know it. quote:". . . sure you two don't mind?" Clarion heard the words from quite near, and came out of his thoughts to see that it was Ro who spoke, mainly to Coll but also to himself. "I'd be more than willin' to wait a while if you or Mardimil would rather go now." Said the guy who has massive hang ups with paid sex work. We'd never know it if we hadn't just had Lorand's POV. quote:Holter, Drowd, and Ro laughed as they stood, each man solemnly promising not to "wear the ladies out." They then made their way toward a staircase to the left of the bar and the right of the cooking area, and quickly climbed out of sight. Clarion returned his attention to his brew, but stirred in faint annoyance in his chair rather than simply drinking. What were they going to be doing up those stairs? This ability would sure be handy right now, in the time of COVID-19. quote:"The first time I did this, I made a small error," Clarion confided to an amusingly surprised Coll. "I also turned the air of my barrier opaque, so that no one could see inside. Unfortunately that meant I was unable to see out as well, so I had no idea that everyone in the house was frantically trying to 'rescue' me from the unexplained horror that had swallowed me up. When I finally dispersed the barrier and reappeared, Mother was in the midst of hysterics. I had to promise never to do that again before anyone was able to calm her." More proof of Hallina Mardimil's idiocy. Unless it's possible to self-suffocate. Who knows if people can actually affect themselves with their own talent? We will only ever see people accidentally burn themselves out. We'll get a Lorand POV in Book 4 where he attempts to use his talent on himself but it's actually not too clear whether or not he could have done it unassisted. quote:"Some mothers do tend to overreact," Coll said with a chuckle of appreciation. "My own mother had a fit once when she came out of the house and discovered how high I'd climbed into one of the shade trees. I'd seen my older brother do the same thing, you understand, so I couldn't comprehend why it was so terrible for me. The fact that he was seven while I was four wasn't a point I considered important." How the hell do you train a four year old to act "like a gentleman"? Toddlers gonna toddler, they don't care what you want. Though I suppose it's at this point that I guess we are supposed to realize that Clarion was probably beaten into submission. It'd have to be by a servant or somebody, because there's no way he'd be able to form the kind of attachment he has to his mother figure if she personally beat him or were connected to the beating in any way, shape or form in his mind. quote:Clarion took another swallow of the brew to wash away the taste of depression. Mother had only been trying to protect him, of course, but because of that most of his life had been sheer monotony. This is some weird stuff. Did Hallina just watch Clarion 24/7 and smack his hands every time he tried to  ? It's also funny that Green thinks this only happens when puberty occurs.quote:Clarion understood nothing of the muttering Coll was doing, but he'd just emptied his cup of brew. That was a much more important and immediate problem, but one that was quickly solved when Clarion spotted the pitcher which had been left on the table. He wasn't used to serving himself with anything, but critical situations called for unusual solutions. Pouring more brew into his rather nice pewter cup was actually very easy, and when he sat back after the satisfying accomplishment, Coll was apparently ready to abandon his muttering. In addition to not knowing where babies or noble families come from, Clarion has never poured himself a drink in his life. I call BS on this, since Lorand clearly saw Clarion serving himself breakfast that morning. quote:"Mardimil, I'm about to tell you something you obviously don't know," he said quite clearly, proving the point. "It will come as a shock, so I'd like you to brace yourself." Spoilers for Book 5: Clarion doesn't know where babies come from, not because his mother never explained, but because Hallina Mardimil doesn't know where babies come from either. She's a virgin who stole another woman's baby. This is a known fact among most of the nobility hence why Clarion was put through the testing process for commoners. quote:"That men are supposed to feel certain urges for women," Coll supplied, leaning forward a bit. "There are certain things a man does when he's alone with a desirable woman, and I'll describe those things for you in detail so you'll know what to do when we go upstairs. But what you must do right now is convince both your mind and your body that doing them is perfectly natural. If you don't, you'll find disappointment rather than pleasure."  quote:". . . so try to remember what I told you," Coll said, apparently winding up his lecture. "It's perfectly acceptable to touch the girl anywhere you please, but you mustn't hurt her in any way. Once you've completed your first experience you may feel the urge to cause her pain, but that will be anger stemming from having been unfairly denied so long. One of the town boys was raised by a mother like yours, and when he finally had his first woman the guilt and rage were too much for him. He beat up that poor girl something awful, and in school they had to take all the boys aside to explain why he'd done it. Just remember that it isn't wrong, only natural, and there's nothing to feel guilty about." Green?? Are you secretly a goon?! (if you are, please post in this thread!) quote:"Nothing for guilty," Clarion agreed with a smile, partly for Coll and partly for the brew. That sleazy tavern must have found the best vintage brew ever made. Lorand just gonna be peeping in on Clarion getting frisky with his magical powers. Should we throw an exhibitionist tag on this as well? quote:"Later," Clarion agreed heartily, looking fondly down at his cup. Coll was such a fine fellow for a member of the lower class, but now that was completely understandable. At one time everyone was a member of the lower class, and Mother was sure to shriek and faint when he told her. Nobility were now obviously superior, but at one time. . . . Actually good foreshadowing! quote:Clarion lost himself to his thoughts, but was pulled back briefly by Coll to remove the barrier of air he'd constructed. He did that with slightly less ease than usual, then sat back to enjoy the music and the brew. He was part of a group, and although the group was low-class and therefore not good enough for him, he still enjoyed being a part of it. He'd never admit that to Mother, of course, not with her precarious health, but he didn't mind in the least admitting it to himself. . . . Why, Lorand, WHY?? That would have been hilarious! quote:After a while Clarion noticed that people had approached their table, but not just any people. Drowd and Holter and Ro were back, and all of them looked thoroughly satisfied. Spoilers for Chapter 24: Jovvi tells Tamrissa to stay away from Eskin Drowd because he's a sick twisted woman abuser like her dead husband. Makes you wonder what was "different" about this experience for Drowd. quote:There was something sleekly ugly behind the man's tone and question, but Clarion couldn't quite make out what. Ah well, it didn't really matter, not when it was now his and Coil's turn. Green's really on a roll here. Clarion's whole POV chapter so far has been pretty decent. quote:"Here, let me help you a little," Coll said from his left, and then the man's hand was on Clarion's arm. Oddly enough Clarion immediately began to feel better, and even the floor became flatter. This will be the first of many times another character remarks on what a wonderful healer Lorand is. quote:"Okay, here we are," Coll said, and Clarion raised his eyes from the top tread to look around. This second floor had a fairly wide hall with doors every few feet along the walls, some of which were closed. Lamps lit the area well enough to show imitation Denigan carpeting on the floor, a poor imitation in ghastly colors that were thankfully almost worn away. The walls and doors—and ceiling—could have used whitewashing at the very least, but Clarion lost the chance to comment on any of that when he noticed something far more important. Is this a tribute Green snuck in?! We will never hear of anything "Denigan" ever again! quote:Someone—possibly Coll—had rung a small, tinkling bell, and now the open doors were beginning to show filled doorways. Girls were coming forward to stand where they could be seen, more unaccompanied women than Clarion had ever seen. Small, medium, and big women, young and not so young, dressed in . . . in . . . Clarion's body hardened so abruptly it made him grunt. Did Green lose track of the status of Clarion's since he was turned on by Lorand's lecture on babymaking?quote:"Go ahead and choose the one you like best," Coil's voice urged, reminding Clarion that he was there. "Then you can join her in her bedchamber rather than standing around uncomfortably out here."  Hi Naran!quote:"Dear lady, would you do me the honor of—entertaining me?" he asked her with a bow, the courtly words somehow coming effortlessly. "If you agree, I promise to be forever grateful." He's never had anything so it's not a real high bar to clear, Naran. quote:"Why would they hate you?" Clarion asked, raising her small hand to his lips. Her flesh felt so warm and wonderful in his hand, but not nearly as good as it felt to his lips. He had no idea that girls could be this magnificent, and was now eagerly looking forward to discovering even more marvels. Did you forget about the maid you tried to grab when you were younger before Hallina burst in on you? quote:"They'll hate me because of what you said," the girl informed him, pressing herself ever more closely to his body. "You were so beautifully gallant, like a real gentleman, not like the rough bulls they''ll get. I know it's what they're here for, but even girls like them need a little niceness every now and then." It's never really clear what "a real gentleman" is supposed to be, since we are shown plenty of nobles who are horrid people. quote:Clarion looked down at her, and it was almost as if he could feel the pain this girl had experienced in life. So small and harmless she was, and yet there were those who would hurt her with blows as casually as he had been hurt by words. Distantly he remembered someone telling him to be gentle with her, but the caution had been unnecessary. He'd never find it possible to harm her ... or anyone even remotely like her. . . Actually unclear whether Naran's also been a victim of sexual or physical abuse in the past. Book 2 spoilers: Naran does have a stalker and Book 5 spoilers it's Tamrissa's father. quote:"Come to the bed," she whispered when he put a hand to her lovely face to experience the feel of her silky skin. "I want to give you pleasure, but these clothes are in the way." I'm somewhat surprised this literal man child actually knows the general term of "manhood" and didn't refer it as his "pee pee". Though since Clarion is the only character so far to have had a reasonable character arc, I think I will stop making fun of him now, because he's now crossed into "likeable" territory. quote:"I can see you enjoyed that," she told him laughingly as she joined him on the bed, her fingertips on his desire sending unbelievable flashes and tingles through his body. "Would you like to kiss me first, or would you prefer to be eased?" Romance/erotica readers/authors, please explain what the rules are for how often you need to change up the nouns used to describe genitalia and what the various acceptable terms are. "Desire" screams "bargain bin bodice ripper" euphemism to me and is hilarious. quote:He lay panting and throbbing for an unknown number of moments, and just as he felt he was returning to himself she also returned to him. It took her very little time to bring him back to the state he'd first been in, and then she was in his arms again, sharing another kiss. I feel like Clarion would be a lingerie man. quote:"Please, love, please do it now," she begged, running her hands over his chest. "You're obviously made of steel, but you've turned me into pudding. Please do it now before I die of wanting you!" Legitimately good characterization! quote:"Guide me, sweet girl. Take me in your hand and guide me." He whispered the words as he kissed and nipped at her ear, making her slender body shiver where it lay beneath him. If I was Naran I'd have cracked up laughing at this cheesy line and the moment would be ruined. But hey, since she's technically at work, I guess she's probably heard much worse and she's a professional. quote:"Show me what pleases you most, and I will return the pleasure you gave me earlier." Would have been much less cringeworthy if this was his only line. quote:"Here, I need you here," she responded in a moan, reaching between them to grasp his renewed need. Then she guided it to the entrance of ultimate bliss, which was the heat and slick moisture of her own desire. Clarion thrust within the incredible tunnel, experiencing feelings he had never even dreamt of, not only grasped tight but also pulled even closer when her legs locked about his waist. Entrance/tunnel of ultimate bliss?  I'm starting a new count.quote:"Stroke deep, my fleeting love," she murmured, And possibly one for endearments as well.  quote:already beginning to move her hips in the most marvelous way as her fingers buried themselves in his hair. "Our time together will be over much too soon, but for the precious few moments we remain here, make me yours completely." Foreshadowing! quote:Clarion had begun to match her movements with his own, and was so lost to the flood of new and incredibly wonderful sensations that he found it impossible to reply to her. Instead he simply kissed her, loving her deeply for this precious gift she gave with no hint of reluctance. There's no reluctance because this is work and she's a professional. Spoilers for later in this book we'll actually find out that Naran showed up at this tavern just to shack up with Clarion because and Book 5 her Sight magic told her she'd meet the man she'd fall in love with forever by going there. quote:He now knew why the others had been so eager to visit with these ladies, and knew as well that next time he would take his turn with those going first. Mind blown! From this point on, Clarion proceeds to make up for lost time by having as much sex as possible. quote:Their motion went from slow to rapid to frenzied, and after a time it culminated in that indescribable explosion that left pulsing tremors tingling through him. The girl seemed to experience the same, and after they'd rested side by side for a short while Clarion turned to her again. He felt there was more to learn about this wonderful new undertaking, and that conviction led him to a determination to discover the rest. They began again, and this time Clarion asked to be shown the little things that pleased her. It's hard to hate a guy with this kind of dedication. quote:He would learn and learn, and then . . . when he felt a bit more clearheaded ... he would exhibit his knowledge to one whose face had taken to invading his dreams. But not this dream. Only this girl beside him belonged in it, and he would remember it forever. . . . We will never learn whose face this is! Summary: Day 2 After an angsty, silent breakfast where everyone is stewing in their own thoughts, and a lunch with boring small talk, everyone is taken to be fitted for their Grown Up Magic Not-School Uniforms. Jovvi deliberately alienates Eskin and Beldara so Green can establish the best friendship of Jovvi and Tamrissa. Clarion outs himself as a literal man child on the way to a tavern. Lorand has to explain where babies come from so Clarion can have supposedly mind blowingly good sex with Naran. Counts so far: NAMED ON-SCREEN CHARACTERS WHO WE'LL NEVER SEE AGAIN: 14 Mildon Coll, Phor Riven, Jeris Womal, Eldra Sappin, Fod, Lord Astrath, Torrin Ro, Vish "the Fish", Jamrin, Hark, Reshin, Fellar, Ennis, Vosin, Parli Hafford, Regensi TOTALLY INDISTINCT ON-SCREEN LOCATIONS: 7 Rincammon, Haven Wraithside, Tamrissa's house in Gan Garee, Port Entril, testing facility in Gan Garee, Regensi's shop, Ginge's tavern MEALS ON-SCREEN: 4 Day 1 (lunch, dinner), Day 2 (breakfast, lunch, dinner) EUPHEMISMS FOR BODY PARTS: 9 Male: <character name>'s body (x2), discomfort (x1), manhood (x1), desire (x2), renewed need (x1) Female: womanhood (x1), entrance of ultimate bliss (x1), desire (x1), incredible tunnel (x1) TERMS OF ENDEARMENT: 3 Male: love (x1), my fleeting love (x1) Female: sweet girl (x1) PLOTHOLES: 16 COACH RIDES: 12 MEETINGS IN COACHES: 3 OTHER MEETINGS: 1 INTERRUPTED MONOLOGUING: 16 "CLIFFHANGERS": 8 POINTLESS TAMRISSA NARRATION: 8 TEA DRINKING: 2 BLATANT MORALIZING: 11 BATH SCENES: 5 WILFUL MISUNDERSTANDINGS: 4 MIND CONTROL: 5 BADLY WRITTEN SEX SCENES: 1 REPETITIVE POV EVENTS:
Possible fixes: In the grand scheme of things, this chapter works just fine*. There's plenty of characterization for a mildly drunk Clarion, he completes a small character growth arc within the chapter so we get a clear sense of progress and a plot critical event happens (Clarion meets Naran). There was very little filler and stuff actually happened! I'd say we should go for Clarion as the main POV character because he's more fun than Lorand, except for the fact that he'd just run around trying to hook up with everybody else instead of progressing the main story. It's telling that the first chapter so far that I would call decently written happens to be a sex scene chapter and why I keep saying Green is really a romance author pretending to write fantasy. *While the sex scene itself isn't bad to the point of being Bad Sex Award worthy, it's not good either. If I hadn't already cracked up at "sweet girl", I would have lost it at "entrance of ultimate bliss". That said, it is significantly better than Green's other work. Compare the scene we got in Chapter 22 with this one from Chapter 4 of Princess Brat, the aforementioned book that's heavy on non-consensual spanking and humiliation:  (just look at that MS Paint job on the cover!) quote:In no time at all she found herself responding to his kiss, startled to find that she actually wanted to respond. The revelation confused her, but for some reason she wasn't up to thinking it through. The way his hands moved on her body their touch seemed to leave a trail of fire in their wake. The fire had begun to flame up through her skin, and she really needed to do something to quench it. It's SO BAD. Here's the kicker: the publication date on Princess Brat is 2010 (by ABCD Graphics and Design, Inc); the publication date on Convergence is 1996 (by EOS/HarperCollins). The writing in Convergence has been bad, but not Princess Brat bad! Two data points isn't remotely conclusive but since you normally get better with practice and Green has been fairly prolific, I can only conclude that - contrary to our earlier assumptions - The Blending books must have been extensively edited to the point where the editor could no longer cope with polishing things up any longer. Leng fucked around with this message at 13:58 on Sep 7, 2020 |
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Sep 7, 2020 13:52
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quote:CHAPTER TWENTY-THREE Called her Tamrissa in the middle of it, didn't you? quote:"The lordling isn't with you?" the academician said to Coll, the usual smirk in his voice, "What's wrong, wasn't he able to perform? If the ladies laughed him off the premises, we'll have to make an effort to search for him." Academician? I thought Eskin was just a run of the mill academic. I had to go back and check, and it seems Green is using academician and academic interchangeably. Is this an American English thing? quote:"If you intend to search, I can show you which chamber to begin in," Coll returned immediately, paying more attention to the cup of brew he reached for than he did to Drowd. "I happened to be right next door, and as I was leaving, they were starting what sounded like seconds. If you ask him nicely when he finally does get back, he may agree to give you pointers." Good job on keeping an eye on your new best bud, Lorand. Also  quote:"Don't be absurd," Drowd responded with a snort, clearly ignoring Holter's muffled amusement. "The day will never come that that boy can teach anyone about anything. Can't you all see he's completely out of his depth in most things? He doesn't even know the realities of his own class." What kind of academic are you? You just got a data point that disproves your hypothesis. Time to let it go. quote:"He knew enough to pass his initial test," Vallant pointed out, too annoyed with the man to keep silent. "And someone really should have told you the followin' truth sooner, Drowd: anybody who needs somebody to laugh at as badly as you do marks himself as a man who's afraid he's inferior. You talk about other people's lacks and faults just to make sure no one notices yours, but it's a really annoyin' habit that I'm mighty tired of. If you don't have somethin' good to say, just sit there without sayin' anythin'." That's two put downs in a day for Drowd, without the main characters trying to coordinate. Later on, we'll get to see all of them take turns to pile on people they disagree with, just so you know they are all absolutely agreed on the same points. quote:So Vallant was able to go back to his thoughts in peace. It had taken him some effort to get around being called a coward and a quitter by Tamrissa Domon, but once he had he'd been able to really notice the rest of what she'd said— and the way she'd said it. When she'd announced she would not be too afraid to do things the way other people were . . . Vallant was surprised he hadn't been knocked over by what she said she was determined not to feel. For a worldly guy who's travelled to a lot of different cities, Vallant is very bad at subtext, reading body language and facial cues. quote:Those observances had bothered Vallant, so much so that they had even interfered with his pleasure. It wasn't until he found himself calling the girl under him Tamrissa that he noticed he'd chosen a light-eyed blonde, and he'd barely managed to finish what he'd started. That seemed to be because the girl wasn't Tamrissa Domon, a cooling realization he'd never before had trouble with. Called it! quote:The thought of Mirra had never kept him from enjoying himself in other ports, and he'd known Mirra a good deal longer and better. That's not saying much, since you've known Tamrissa for all of a single day, during which you've had three interactions with her. quote:So why had the thought of a girl he barely knew and had never had—and one who clearly despised him—affected him so deeply? It was ridiculous and meaningless and puzzling and disturbing, Green found her thesaurus! quote:and he couldn't seem to stop thinking about it—or find any reasons for it. He wasn't an inexperienced child, after all, falling in love with the first pretty face he saw without knowing anything about what lay behind that face. I don't think it qualifies as "love" if you don't know anything about the person. "Obsession" is probably a more accurate term. quote:Hadn't he learned anything from his association with Mirra, like being wise enough to stay uninvolved? What in the world was wrong with him? Let me get my list! quote:Asking himself useless questions became a rut too deep for Vallant to climb out of, at least not easily. He was pulled out again when Mardimil finally returned, after a surprisingly long passage of time. How would you know? You've been staring at the wall, lost in your thoughts the whole time. quote:"You look like you enjoyed yourself, Mardimil," Coll commented as the young noble resumed his seat at the table. "If you died right now, it would take the burial people a week to get that smile off your face." That's macabre, Lorand. You guys all had a narrow escape from death yesterday - it's a little too soon. quote:"At the moment I feel as though the smile is a good deal more permanent than that," Mardimil replied with a small laugh as he reached for his cup of brew. "That girl was the most delightful creature I've ever encountered, and I couldn't seem to tear myself away. Perhaps I'll return a bit later, once I've restored my energies." Drowd is such an unimportant minor character, I can't believe all these words have been devoted to making him unlikeable. But I guess it's necessary to have characters who are more unlikeable than the main cast, otherwise we'd have nothing to cheer for. quote:With all of them back at the table, the landlord Ginge sent a girl over to ask if they were ready to eat. The answer was a unanimous yes, so they were supplied with a thick vegetable soup, hot pork sandwiches on fresh, seeded bread, small salads, and generous wedges of apricot pie topped with clotted cream. Not quite two silver dins worth from each of them even with the brew and girls included, but Mardimil asked for and was freely given another sandwich and a pot of tea. The rest of them were told to ask if they decided on seconds as well, which meant Ginge was an openhanded host. He would definitely make a profit on them, but not at the expense of their good time. They've spent 2/3rds of a week's fancy food costs in the official residence on one night of food, drinks and paid sex. I want to know what Ginge's cut is and how his profit margin would compare to Jovvi's hypothetical one. quote:The meal put them all in a nicely mellow mood, and when a group of musicians came out to relieve the boy and his instrument they sang and clapped along with everyone else. The trio played the most popular tunes that were known all over the empire, but Vallant noticed that Mardimil didn't seem to know the words to any of them. He clapped and laughed and even hummed the refrains, but clearly didn't know any of the words. Maybe that was because of the mild drunk he was in the grip of, something that had been true even when he'd come downstairs. I will admit that I hate it when authors dump entire ballads, song lyrics, etc into the middle of the text. This is too far on the other extreme - give us some song titles at least! Missed opportunity for world building. quote:The evening wore on pleasantly, despite the fact that the tavern had long since become full. Most of the patrons seemed to be regulars, and most of them came over at one time or another to greet Holter. The little groom seemed pleased to see them, but even though he laughed and joked with them he made no effort to introduce them to Vallant and the others. After a while Vallant realized that was to keep from having to invite all those strangers to join them, which was very thoughtful on Holter's part. He'd brought them to the tavern so they might enjoy themselves in peace, not to go on display for gawking outsiders. PLEASE DO. He's far more likeable than you are. quote:That thought pushed Vallant back down into depression, a state which perversely kept him from getting anywhere near as drunk as he would have liked. Why depression kept him sober was a question he'd never been able to answer, but that didn't stop it from being true. He didn't even notice when the trio of musicians paused to take a rest, and no one came forward to replace them. This is the worst portrayal of depression. Also, we're IN VALLANT'S HEAD. By definition, if he's remarking on the trio taking a break, he's noticed them taking a break. You can't just say he noticed that he didn't notice them! quote:But he did notice when the half-dozen customers at one of the tables began to loudly demand that the music start up again. The six seemed to be relative strangers to the tavern, sitting apart from everyone else and doing nothing in the way of exchanging greetings the way most of the other patrons had. They were all dressed in rough trousers and shirts and coats, looking not only well-worn but dirty. That description fit both them and their clothes, and their manners were a perfect match. I can't tell if this is supposed to feel scary or not. It's so laughably pathetic compared to the fireball and the death test that my reaction is honestly like, awww, how cute. quote:"I'm gonna help Ginge," Holter said over the shouts and bellows, looking around at the rest of them. "If'n any a you feels like doin' th' same, it would shorely be 'predated." Pagin, I think you got this on your own. You don't need the rest of them. quote:That was because more and more of the patrons were being drawn into the free-for-all, Vallant knew. He'd seen the same any number of times before, the exercising of ordinary talents in a way that was designed to let the combatants neutralize an opponent to a certain extent before the fight turned physical. The six who had started it all looked to be really practiced in the technique, which meant the landlord and his people needed all the help they could get. IN WHAT WAY?! You're the author in the head of a character who knows this technique. For the love of good writing, DESCRIBE IT instead of telling us about it. quote:"I'm with you," Vallant said as Holter began to turn away. "But before we start anythin', let's see how much more help we've got." This is way too much magical power in proportion to the actual problem. quote:They all then turned to look at Drowd, but the academician had somehow left the table without their noticing. Where he'd gone was something they didn't have the time to wonder about, not when the fight was already beginning to go physical. Telling us that the characters feel the urgent need to do something doesn't make us feel a sense of urgency as readers. quote:"Let's work this together," Vallant said quickly, addressing the other three. "Mardimil—do you think you can use air to circle and separate out the six who started this? Good, because that's the most important part. Next comes surrounding them with wood shavings which Coll will do—to let the other patrons know something is happening—and last but not least will come Holter's and my contribution. Let's get started." Where's that "Master-of-the-vessel snap"? Shouldn't Vallant have jumped straight into captain mode and started shouting orders the minute everyone present agreed to help? quote:Mardimil raised his brows, obviously wondering what Vallant meant to do, but then he shrugged and turned to look at the six main rioters. He'd apparently decided that he'd find out Vallant's intentions soon enough, and got down to doing his part. Sometimes I have so much trouble telling whether Green's being inconsistent with characterization or whether she's intentionally characterizing the POV character as being dense. Clarion's discovered sex and is slightly drunk but I wouldn't have thought that would be enough to predispose a noble, accustomed to a lifetime of leveraging familial connections to the Seated Blending, to take orders from a commoner without making some sort of comment even if Vallant - uncharacteristically - disguised it as a suggestion. quote:Vallant watched with a good deal of satisfaction as the six troublemakers were suddenly and forcefully separated from everyone else, most probably thinking some invisible giant was to blame. Uh, no. They know Air magic is a thing. quote:That was pretty much the way it looked, with the defenders being shoved back away from the six, and the six themselves pushed together. Vallant had never before seen a High practitioner of Air magic work, but knew he was certainly seeing one now. You guys can stop now. quote:Once the separation was complete, Coll took his turn with Earth magic. Not only did he use almost every wood shaving on the tavern's floor to surround the men, he also seemed to have used them to separate each of the six from the others. Again, the amount of strength and control necessary to do that was impressive, Why do the other patrons need this to know something's happening? They were being shoved back by the same barrier of Air magic, so it doesn't take a genius to draw some conclusions. quote:but since it was now Vallant's turn he left being impressed for some other time. Still can't work out if this is evaporating the water, or teleporting it. quote:Vallant was then able to signal Coll to release the wood shavings. As soon as the shavings had settled back in place Mardimil withdrew the fence of air, and they were able to look at the six again. Green is a master at stating the obvious. quote:When all six broke and ran for the door, fighting each other to scramble through, Vallant joined Coll, Mardimil, and Holter in laughing uproariously. Ok, that's kind of funny, but not that funny. And you might want to think about– quote:The laughter felt good, but suddenly it came to Vallant that they were the only ones in the large room laughing. Everyone else, patrons, servants, workers—and Ginge— stood and stared as though looking at ghosts. The laughter trailed off as one by one Vallant's companions noticed the same thing he had. The six men who had run out had been terrified, and the ones who remained weren't far from being the same. Too late! quote:"Whut's wrong with th' buncha you?" Holter suddenly demanded into the thickened silence, looking around from face to face. What's wrong with YOU GUYS? The troublemakers were neutralized the moment they were forcibly separated but you had to keep going. quote:"You sayin' you wanted them hungers t'tear this place apart? Actually, nobody else is saying anything. quote:Since we got it stopped, you oughta be thankin' us!" Not while you're laughing like lunatics! quote:"We do thank you," Ginge said after a long hesitation, during which no one seemed to move except for the requirements of breathing. "Leastways I thank you, this bein' my place 'n all. It's jest ... I ain't never seen nothin' like that, or felt it neither. The power you used t'bring that there water down . . . both a you ... it felt like a pair a kicks from a giant! How d'you pull in that much, an' why ain't you all burned up 'cause you did?" ...so the penalty for trying to escape the tests wouldn't apply to a High? Right then, show's over folks! Everyone here is a confirmed High talent, so they can just skip the rest of the sessions and disappear. quote:and the whispers claimed that that was so no matter what they did. Vallant had heard—and believed—the whispers himself, so their next move was obvious. How manically were these guys laughing to make everyone feel like they're on the verge of going dark right after they've saved the tavern? quote:"I never expected anyone to look at me like that," Coll said after a moment, sounding somewhat shaken himself. "They were afraid of us, but all we did was help them. Why would that make them afraid?" Because you guys: a) brought nuclear weapons to a fist fight and b) started cackling right afterwards. quote:"Probably because they've never known anyone even as strong as a Middle," Vallant offered when the others remained silent. "I never knew a Middle, not personally, and I remember agreein' with people that you just can't trust the ones with real power. Since I wasn't into showin' off, no one really understood how strong I was. That made me one of them rather than one of the faceless group with power, and I never saw myself any other way. Now . . ." Did you guys forget the memo that your Guild representative gave you? You were all confirmed Middles, that's how you ended up in this situation! quote:Now he and the others had suddenly had the ground cut out from under their feet, Ground?! Where my sailing imagery at? quote:changing their stance in a way that would never let them go back to what they'd been. Realizing that made Vallant feel horribly lonely, and led to another disturbing question: he'd been hoping that something would happen to let him go home, but could he go back? If his own family ever looked at him the way those people in the tavern had . . . Weren't you the only one with a stable loving family? You were bragging last night and this morning about how awesome your parents are. quote:"We better get th' coach an' go back to th' house," Holter said in a defeated voice, giving Vallant the impression that the small man had already been barred from ever going home again. "Wouldn't want Ginge t'look out an' find us standin' here, not after how nice he wus t'us . . ." Spoilers for Book 4 (I think, might be 5): guardsmen are drawn from the general populace, so therefore they're basically majority Low talents. We just saw Clarion take on a tavern full of Low talents without breaking a sweat. The whole Gan Garee guard force would need to show up before they could do anything. quote:Vallant had finally remembered something the others had clearly also forgotten, certainly because of all the brew they'd had. Individuals might be sent to the Deep Caverns for using their ability to harm others, but those of different aspects who tried to act together were summarily executed. Vallant and the others hadn't exactly acted together and all five aspects hadn't been represented, but the fine point of difference wasn't one Vallant would have enjoyed arguing before a court. Not when they weren't yet Highs, just a handful of hopefuls. . . . This is the "anti Blending" law. I'm unclear as to what constitutes "acting together", because Lorand's whole description of the casual use of magic in the inn surely meets that definition, yet I don't see any of those background characters being hauled off for execution! quote:"That reminds me," Vallant said suddenly as they approached the stable entrance. "Drowd is still missin'. If he hasn't already come out ahead of us, we'll have to send the driver back to the tavern to look for him." Is the only reason this line exists to make Vallant look like a considerate person? quote:The others muttered something in agreement without looking overly concerned, and Vallant couldn't blame them. A man like Drowd was usually popular, but only because those flocking around him were afraid of what he might say about them if they weren't his friend. With no one in their group willing to hear barbs against any of the others, Drowd's popularity had taken a severe beating. If he ended up gone for good, it was unlikely that anyone but the testing authority would be upset. Never mind! quote:The large stable doors stood open with a small amount of lamplight pouring a short way out into the dark. Just inside to the left, in a space about three stalls wide and deep, was a sitting area fixed up by and for the stablemen. Old, mismatched wooden chairs stood around a splintery wooden table with almost all of its finish gone. A large stable lantern illuminated the area, showing an old man and two boys along with their driver, all four sipping brew from battered cups and smoking pipes. When their driver saw them he rose to his feet, murmured something which the old man nodded to with a cackle, then proceeded to empty his pipe. Fire magic in a stable when there's a lantern to hand? Bad idea! quote:"And you were worried about Drowd," Coll said to Vallant, his air of disgust clearly aimed at the academician. "The man was ready to abandon us here, without even knowing whether or not someone would call the guard down on us. We ought to ask them to put him in a different residence." this stupid conflation between High talent and High position bugs me no end but I won't repeat that rant here.quote:And I meant to ask: why did we have to leave so early?" You're no charmer yourself, Vallant. It's a shame you can't keep your mouth permanently shut. quote:Their driver brought the coach forward to where they could board without worrying what they might be stepping into before stepping into the coach. A shadowy figure already sat inside in one corner, but that presented no problem at all. Holter wordlessly climbed to the box beside the driver where he'd sat on the way there, leaving just enough room inside for the others. You are the worst drama king. You have a stable loving family, a crew that adores you and an ex-fiancé who treats you like a life sized Ken doll with a vibrating dildo attachment and didn't agree to your break up. I think you'd be fine. quote:Vallant sat staring out the window at the dark streets of a dozing city, the tears in his eyes blurring the scene's details but matching the light rain which had started. He hadn't cried since the time he was very young, and probably wouldn't be crying now if he hadn't had so much brew. But he had had the brew, and the pangs of loneliness and homesickness were very strong and painful. Never to go home again . . , how were you supposed to think about that without crying?  quote:Vallant felt very small and very helpless and alone, almost the way he'd felt once before in his life. Back then he had been small and helpless, and he'd been certain things would have been different if he'd been a grown man. Well, he was a grown man now, and things certainly were different ... so different he almost couldn't stand it. . . . Book 3 spoilers: we'll eventually get a flashback to when Vallant nearly drowned as a kid in an underwater cave, leaving him with his claustrophobia Summary: Day 2 After an angsty, silent breakfast where everyone is stewing in their own thoughts, and a lunch with boring small talk, everyone is taken to be fitted for their Grown Up Magic Not-School Uniforms. Jovvi deliberately alienates Eskin and Beldara so Green can establish the best friendship of Jovvi and Tamrissa. Clarion outs himself as a literal man child on the way to a tavern. Lorand has to explain where babies come from so Clarion can have supposedly mind blowingly good sex with Naran. Vallant spends the entire time moping and pretending he's banging Tamrissa. A bunch of tavern toughs start a fight that is easily broken up by their group minus Drowd. The crowd turns fearful after they start cackling like proto-evil overlords so they leave. Counts so far: NAMED ON-SCREEN CHARACTERS WHO WE'LL NEVER SEE AGAIN: 14 Mildon Coll, Phor Riven, Jeris Womal, Eldra Sappin, Fod, Lord Astrath, Torrin Ro, Vish "the Fish", Jamrin, Hark, Reshin, Fellar, Ennis, Vosin, Parli Hafford, Regensi TOTALLY INDISTINCT ON-SCREEN LOCATIONS: 7 Rincammon, Haven Wraithside, Tamrissa's house in Gan Garee, Port Entril, testing facility in Gan Garee, Regensi's shop, Ginge's tavern MEALS ON-SCREEN: 4 Day 1 (lunch, dinner), Day 2 (breakfast, lunch, dinner) EUPHEMISMS FOR BODY PARTS: 9 Male: <character name>'s body (x2), discomfort (x1), manhood (x1), desire (x2), renewed need (x1) Female: womanhood (x1), entrance of ultimate bliss (x1), desire (x1), incredible tunnel (x1) TERMS OF ENDEARMENT: 3 Male: love (x1), my fleeting love (x1) Female: sweet girl (x1) PLOTHOLES: 19 COACH RIDES: 13 MEETINGS IN COACHES: 3 OTHER MEETINGS: 1 INTERRUPTED MONOLOGUING: 16 "CLIFFHANGERS": 8 POINTLESS TAMRISSA NARRATION: 8 TEA DRINKING: 2 BLATANT MORALIZING: 12 BATH SCENES: 5 WILFUL MISUNDERSTANDINGS: 4 MIND CONTROL: 5 BADLY WRITTEN SEX SCENES: 1 REPETITIVE POV EVENTS:
Possible fixes: As far as I can tell, this scene is supposed to make the main cast feel like they've passed the point of no return, but it's an awful lot of words for a pretty anti-climatic "action" scene. If we focus on the tavern sequence in the context of all the changes we've discussed to date, I think I'd go with something like this:
Not sure how to get Clarion in the mix here. I feel like we don't need another High talent in the mix with this kind of plot structure. Maybe we just meet him later on.
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Sep 8, 2020 13:59
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quote:CHAPTER TWENTY-FOUR Nobody's done anything with Fire magic at this point, so for all you know, Beldara is right and she is stronger than Tamrissa. Just because you have your eye on her as a potential cash generating asset does not automatically make Tamrissa better at Fire magic. quote:And without the men the house sounded almost empty, which reminded Jovvi that they were out having a good time. She would have enjoyed doing the same, but not without a guide who knew which areas to avoid. At least Tamrissa had been honest enough to admit she knew nothing about the city where partying was concerned . . . Green will never touch on this again, so I'm not really sure whether this is in-text confirmation that Jovvi is bi, or whether there are male equivalents to courtesans (because every courtesan we see or hear of in the books is always female). quote:And thinking about Tamrissa, Jovvi saw her heading for the small library after gesturing that Jovvi should follow. The girl had mentioned something about a secret she wanted to share, and Jovvi really was curious. The secret wasn't likely to be anything really forbidden like bramleaf juice or holban resin, not when those two drugs left their mark clearly on users. Tamrissa wasn't a drug user, despite the extreme pain Jovvi could sometimes feel inside her. World building info that will never be used again! Also, Tamrissa the drug addict would have been a more interesting angle than what we get. quote:So Jovvi followed her hostess into the library, where Tamrissa rang for tea. The service was brought rather quickly, and Tamrissa took a moment to ask the serving girl to tell the cook that the men probably would be absent for dinner. Then she closed the door behind the girl, and turned to Jovvi with a smile. Another thing I hate - people referring to the cook as "Cook". No other domestic service position gets referred to in that way - maids, butlers, coach drivers, footmen, hostlers, guards, general servants all get referred to either by name or by position. quote:Jovvi took her cup to the table between a pair of leather-covered chairs, put her purse and hat on the table as well, then followed instructions about making herself comfortable in one of the chairs. Tamrissa had gone to one of the bookshelves and removed two of the books, then reached in behind them. What she withdrew was a small leather-covered box in red, the sort which usually held writing paper of good quality. The two books were returned to their places on the shelf, but the box was carried over to where Jovvi sat. I have no idea why we're getting all this detail about Jovvi's every motion to sit down since none of it is important or reveals character. We could have had something like this instead: Jovvi kicked off her shoes and burrowed into the nearest armchair, knees tucked to her chest and feet curled underneath her skirts. She watched as Tamrissa withdrew a small writing case that had been hidden behind a bookshelf dedicated to Gandistran histories. What kind of secret was Tamrissa hiding? quote:"You must promise never to tell anyone about this," Tamrissa said, not yet opening the box. "I bought it the day after my husband died, using some of the gold he kept in there. If any of the others find out they'll expect to share it, and I no longer have the gold to replace it. It's horribly expensive, but I think you'll agree it's worth the price." Remember back in Chapter 17 when Tamrissa said she doesn't have any money of her own? Yeah, it's because she blew all of the gold she inherited on this one, extravagant purchase. quote:"Good grief, girl, what is it?" Jovvi couldn't help demanding. "Diamonds would fit in that box, but I can't imagine people expecting to share them. Beyond that I can't think of a single—" Diamonds aren't exactly a secret either. Smartest woman in the room, our Jovvi. quote:Jovvi's words ended abruptly when Tamrissa opened the box, showing something that Jovvi had heard about but had never tried. It was something the nobility most often kept to themselves, paying outrageous sums which even many merchants couldn't afford to match. It really was a treasure, and it was— I...don't buy this. Expensive foods are usually expensive because they are delicious and also hard to get. When it's a plant-based food, it all becomes about the yield over time. Saffron is expensive because you need 150 crocus flowers in order to hand pick enough stems to yield 1 g (0.035oz) of dry saffron threads. We're in a world where Earth magic can Encourage plants to grow faster/better than they otherwise could. Not to mention that Air, Water and Fire magic could all be used to harvest and process cacao beans more effectively and efficiently. Yet somehow Tamrissa blew ALL THE GOLD SHE HAD on a tiny box. quote:Jovvi hesitated only an instant, politeness quickly falling under the wheels of driving curiosity. A patron of hers had once promised to bring chocolate as a gift, but he'd never returned after making the promise. She'd heard later that he'd killed himself after losing his fortune to gambling and fast living . . . Jovvi just having a foodgasm here. quote:"Don't be ashamed to lick your fingers when the rest is gone," Tamrissa said with a laugh, having taken the other chair after helping herself to her own small chunk. "I always do, and I don't care how unladylike it's supposed to be. Letting any of this go to waste would be worse than a crime against humanity." Uh, what? You're a courtesan. Are you seriously telling me that you've only ever had good sex during the course of your career (statistically extremely unlikely and Book 5 Chapter 31 spoilers you basically admit you weren't having great sex before you landed in the Blending)? Because most of your patrons aren't gonna be like Clarion was with Naran - they're paying you for a service and whether or not the sex is good for you is irrelevant. Does this mean Jovvi was mind controlling all of her patrons to get herself off? Like I have some ethical issues regarding mind control in general, but assuming we can get past that, I would have thought that her patrons would only be consenting to the use of Spirit magic insofar as it makes sex better for them. quote:"How can you compare the two?" Tamrissa asked with a strange sound, giving most of her attention to the brown chunk she nibbled at. "Being with a man is vile and unending pain. Chocolate is the most marvelous thing ever created. The two can't possibly be discussed in the same breath." Despite all of the amateur porno descriptions, I still have no clue exactly how these two are beautifully different in being differently beautiful. quote:"It looks like we have something in common then," Jovvi said after a brief hesitation, now studying her own piece of chocolate. "My mother sold me when I was very young, but not into anything as nice as this house. The men who bought me expected to pass me on to one of their regular customers, someone who bought young girls rather often. I learned he bought so many because he tended to use them up, so I escaped before they were able to deliver me. Afterward I spent a very long time hoping they went back to my mother to reclaim my sale price." This is weird and abrupt and the fact that Jovvi is not surprised is weird. If we're still going with Jovvi the ex-street rat turned savvy manipulatress, what would actually be an in-character monologue is Jovvi deciding to strategically use the truth as a means to get close to Tamrissa in order to convince her that working as a courtesan under Jovvi's sponsorship is the best decision ever. Instead, we get this weird forced "omg we're long lost sisters from different mothers" to the point where I'm actually not sure if it's accidental foreshadowing for Book 8 spoilers someone from the advanced nation of full Blendings discreetly using Spirit magic subtly to influence them. Green's gone on the record to say that the second sequel wasn't originally planned (or at least that's how I interpreted her response): Crescent Blues: What's on the horizon for Sharon Green? What new marvels can we expect to see? Sharon Green: ...it came to me not long ago that the story of The Blending has a definite direction to continue in. The first five books tell the original story, but there's a second behind that and I'd like to write it. If Avon decides they'd like to print it, we'll all be happy. If not, who knows? Source: http://www.crescentblues.com/1_2_issue/green4.shtml quote:"The father of the family caught me trying to steal some food, and forced me to sit down and eat it along with more than I'd had the nerve to try for. They weren't rich people by any means, but they said that if anyone saw me leaving their place looking half starved, they'd never live it down. I stayed with them for almost two years, and when I finally began to earn more than coppers as a courtesan, I sent them silver on a regular basis." An actually interesting backstory that we will never see reflected in any of Jovvi's thoughts when we're in her POV. Once this info dump is over, we'll never hear anything else about these unnamed characters, other than a passing aside in Book 5. quote:"You were a courtesan?" Tamrissa asked, raising her brows before wrinkling her nose. "How did you stand it? Oh, of course, you were probably forced into it. Isn't it wonderful that now you won't ever have to go back to it?" Tamrissa isn't very good at following a conversation. Jovvi just told you she likes sex better than chocolate! quote:"My dear girl, I wasn't forced into it," Jovvi said gently with a sigh, knowing she had an almost impossible job on her hands. "You have to understand that not all men are like the one you married, and being with them is pleasure rather than pain. My first man was really a boy, the oldest son in that family I stayed with. He was beautiful and I fell in love with him immediately, but he refused to touch me until I grew old enough to join him rather than be used by him. He taught me what pleasure there was to be had, and then he left home to make his own way in the world." I'm having timeline issues with this. Based on Eldra, we know that this world seems to consider women to come of age when they turn 15. Jovvi's been a courtesan long enough that she's famous in Northern Gandistra, so let's assume she started right on turning 15. Jovvi had what sounded like an average childhood up until her father died (when she was 9). From that point on, she experienced abandonment, neglect and being unloved. She escaped being sold into underaged sex slavery when she was about 12. If she started as a courtesan when she was 15, after staying with this family for nearly 2 years, she would have found them when she was around 13. So...13 year old Jovvi "fell in love" to the point of making sexual advances on an older boy who had to decline them because she needed to be 14 before she was "old enough"? This is stretching the bounds of plausibility for me. I can buy that 13 year old Jovvi grew up a lot faster. I do not buy that the knowledge of sexual power and being confident enough to try to use it means that as a 14 year old sleeping with an older boy that the relationship is equal enough for it to be termed "joining" in any way. At that stage, no matter how mature you are as a 14 year old, the age difference as well as the physical difference is a pretty wide chasm. quote:"He left you just like that?" she asked, wide-eyed again. "I knew men were no good, and you're just too nice to understand it." I'm picturing Allestine running a pyramid scheme with these agents of hers, à la LuLaRoe. How much of an upline was Jovvi supporting? quote:"Obviously you did," Tamrissa said, looking Jovvi over from head to foot. "Your clothes are as beautiful as your face and figure, so you must have earned a lot of gold. Redundant reinforcement of something we already know by another character! quote:But if you weren't forced to be a courtesan and you enjoyed it, then . . . maybe you aren't as glad to be here as I thought. . ." This is why we would lose nothing by cutting all of the first POV chapters - all of the information we learn from those chapters eventually comes out in later dialogue! quote:Now . . . Tamrissa, what do you really think our chances are to become part of the new Blending? I mean, it's just a silly dream, isn't it? We aren't members of the nobility, but if we ever won a place ... no one could try to own us again." Green can't decide whether Tamrissa's a woman or a girl/child. We had Vallant salivating over how "ripe" she is, Tamrissa describing her own body as "lush" and now Jovvi's thinking of her as "pretty child". I think the intent was to characterize Tamrissa as having "child-like innocence" which I entirely do not buy. Nobody coming out of two years of abusive marriage retains an air of child-like innocence! quote:"I keep telling myself that thinking about becoming part of the new Blending is foolish, but some bit of me doesn't want to listen," Tamrissa said, idly licking melted chocolate from her fingers. "I can't imagine that any of us here have the least chance, but Jovvi—wouldn't it be wonderful?" Please don't repeat the speculation that we already covered last night. quote:Jovvi was in the midst of tasting her own chocolate again, so she didn't answer immediately. Once it was all down, though, she said, "Being completely free would be wonderful. Being a member of the new Blending would be—what? What do we know about the life they live, or what they're required to do? From time to time I asked some of my noble patrons, but even they didn't really know. They repeated the latest gossip about this or that threat having been overcome, but there were never any details. Do you know anything more about it? Have you ever even seen any of them?" Why didn't you guys discuss this at dinner last night so we didn't need to have another chapter speculating on these points?! I know it's because we were in Clarion's POV and he tuned out half way through, but if there was a discussion that was important for your readers to understand, maybe you should have picked a DIFFERENT POV Green! quote:"High practitioners, on the other hand, are very visible, and live like and among the highest nobles when they aren't needed for the most important jobs. But come to think of it, I've never seen a High at work, or met anyone who has. Middles are everywhere and doing what has to be done, but you just hear stories about Highs." How can a High practitioner be very visible and yet all you ever hear is stories about them? quote:"The same way you hear them about the Blending," Tamrissa agreed, the beginnings of suspicion clear behind her nod. "I don't like the sound of that, since High is supposed to be what we're trying for. If Highs don't do anything, why do they go to so much trouble gathering us in?" So much of the plot is driven by "the law". And there's never been a law written that can't be changed, unless you're talking about the laws of physics, which since we're in magic land, actually CAN be changed as well! quote:"So Highs are needed for something, but not necessarily the something we had in mind," Jovvi said slowly, then looked directly at Tamrissa. "If it would do any good, I'd suggest we rethink our plans to participate. I don't like dealing with people who have private objectives in mind, but participating has stopped being our choice. We have to go on with it, but we'll also have to do some serious thinking. Maybe we'll find a way to protect ourselves." Foreshadowing! quote:"And still get what we're after,'' Tamrissa said, the words grim. "Without the protection of this competition, my parents will come after me again. They'll arrange another marriage like the first, I'll refuse, and shortly thereafter, when they realize they can't change my mind, I'll be dead. That's better than going along with them, but dying isn't my first choice of desired outcomes. I'd rather fight to get a place of my own . . . even if I'm not always sure I can do it. . . ." Is Tamrissa implying that her own parents would have her assassinated? Because that's messed up on the next level. quote:Jovvi's brows raised at that strange combination of feelings, so unusual was it to find the two together. When Tamrissa spoke of refusing her parents, her emotions were steel-hard and twice as determined. But when she mentioned gaining something for herself using her abilities, the doubt and lack of confidence turned her determination to water. At first Jovvi couldn't understand how the two fit together, and then the answer became obvious. Why?! Did Jovvi suddenly gain a conscience? Is it because people can sense when they're being manipulated by Spirit magic? Who knows? (it's because Tamrissa and Jovvi are now bound as sisters by the power of chocolate) quote:"I'd guess that your biggest problem is having no one on your side, no one to occasionally lean on. Standing alone is very tiring, and when the weariness comes it brings memories of the lies you've been told. Your enemies want you weak and helpless, so they've always insisted that you were nothing else. Most of the time you know better, but when you tire you become afraid that they're right." That's...not how free will works. quote:"I repeat, it only happened because you had no one on your side," Jovvi said slowly and clearly, fighting off the waves of defeat coming from the girl without trying to change them artificially. "You now have me on your side, which gives you more than a single choice. If we decide we don't like what those people are up to and there's a way to get out in one piece, we'll take it and set up a residence together. With the two of us in it, we'll soon have so much gold we'll have to give it away to keep the banks from breaking under the load." 3114 words to get to the only relevant character/plot point in the chapter. quote:"That's a lot of gold," Tamrissa said with a laugh that broke her painful mood, but then she reddened. "I really like your idea, but me in a residence . . . pretending to be a courtesan ... I wouldn't have the first idea of what to do. Not to mention never being able to stop blushing. I can't imagine many men wanting a woman who looks as though she's fallen into a vat of red dye." I would like to read more about how Spirit magic users substitute for reference and background checks. Unfortunately, Green will never go there. quote:I never have trouble telling that sort, and no longer even bother making the effort to keep them from hurting me. I simply refuse them, and spend my time with men who have no sickness in their minds. For someone who's been living 3-4 years under Allestine's thumb - a sponsor who is so controlling that you only get like 2 days off per year - this doesn't seem like a thing you'd be able to do. But let's not repeat the rant about whether Jovvi gets to choose her patrons since we already covered that back in Chapter 2. quote:And speaking of that sort, stay away from Eskin Drowd. I knew he was one from the moment we first met." Remember how in Chapter 22, Drowd said his time with the girls working the upstairs room at Ginge's tavern was "rather different, but pleasantly so"? quote:But I still can't imagine finding it pleasant to be with a man, so I'm going to try to find a way to make this High practitioner thing work. Maybe no one ever sees them doing things because what they do is secret. What I can't figure out is what that sort of thing would be." Research into new knowledge about the application of magic? Or maybe what they do is so magically advanced that it's delicate and sensitive work requiring a lot of concentration that could easily be disrupted by an audience? Or maybe that it's dangerous and therefore you need to have a certain level of magical strength in order to be able to adequately defend yourself from any accidents? That's just off the top of my head. quote:"In what way could they be working against us?" Tamrissa asked, looking thoughtful rather than disbelieving. "People would notice interference that strong, and there would be rumors and gossip and guesswork flying everywhere. Have you ever heard anything like that?" Yep, this is all the set up that we get from Green for the main conspiracy plot. quote:Let's find another subject to talk about for a while, specifically one you can talk about while I finish my chocolate. It's just about all melted between my fingers, and I want to eat it before I lose any." Taking more chapters to drag out a conspiracy plot that lacks substance isn't going to make it better. quote:Jovvi returned to her room to freshen up just before dinner, taking the opportunity to check on the safety of her gold. It was still just where she'd hidden it, but the place under the loose floorboard in the corner of the room no longer looked as safe as it had. That business at the dressmaker's had disturbed her, leaving each of them exactly two silver dins. If they'd used Earth magic there to deplete the applicants' resources, they could just as well come to the house to do the same thing. She would have to find a better place to hide her gold, one that couldn't be found even by someone with Earth magic. And there might be just the place . . . We've had three Jovvi POVs obsessing over her gold and it will never end up being relevant to the plot whatsoever. quote:Dinner consisted of small game birds baked in a variety of sauces, vegetables with complementary sauces, bread, cheese, and wine. Jovvi took the chair next to Tamrissa's rather than her own, but Beldara Lant sat in her usual place and still pretended to be alone in the world. A reminder that this is what the table looks like (T = Tamrissa, L = Lorand, B = Beldara, V = Vallant, E = Eskin, C = Clarion, J = Jovvi, P = Pagin): pre: T
P L
J B
C V
E
Maybe Beldara sat in her own spot because didn't hear your conversation with the driver at the Regensi's shop because she was still upset about how bitchy you were in the morning and the insult from Regensi so she didn't know that it was only you three for dinner. The bitch move would have been if Beldara had gone to sit in Eskin's spot or asked for her dinner to be delivered on a tray to her room. quote:Her anger and spitefulness hadn't eased in the least, nor did it seem like it would. Apparently Beldara was someone who never changed her mind once she'd made it up, and telling her about the suspicions Jovvi and Tamrissa had would have been a waste of breath. Ah well, the girl was too singleminded to have been much help anyway. After the mostly silent dinner, Jovvi proposed that they all use the bath house together. Beldara got up and left the room even before Jovvi finished speaking, which made her response perfectly clear. Yeah, I have no idea why Beldara's not falling over herself to be best buds with you guys either.  quote:For some reason Tamrissa also tried to beg off, but Jovvi wasn't in the mood to be alone so she insisted. Tamrissa finally gave in and agreed, and the two of them went for lounging wraps and slippers, then walked together to the bath house. This is not going where you think it's going because only heterosexual relationships are acceptable for Green's main characters. quote:"I still think we should have brought clean clothes rather than wraps," Tamrissa said as they reached the bath house door. "We don't know when the men will be back, and they could find us parading around almost naked. Which reminds me . . ." What? Everything we've read up to this point indicates Tamrissa has never experienced anything other than men endlessly looking at her in appreciation of her beauty. quote:How did he look without clothes?" Not that it matters, because even Jovvi's own description was terrible. According to this website, it quotes an interview from Green's now defunct website on her skill with description as follows: In an interview published on her Web site, Green noted that she "exploded and hit the ceiling" when she began one of Norman's "Gor" books. "When I sat down to counter him, I also tried to lampoon his style of overstating every description. I didn't quite get that far, but I got far enough to add to my own writing what it was lacking: a decent amount of description. . . . So I can't really complain about that Gor book. I read one of his, and got ten of my own from it." Green's commenting in relation to her Terrilan and Jalav books which I have never read and have resolved to never read. Has anyone following along read these? And if so, please comment! quote:"Yes, I'd believe it," Tamrissa replied, more serious than amused. "He's really nice, and what's more he wants to be here. But what you said . . . about women having as much right to choose as men ... I never looked at it that way before. Do you really think it's a matter of choice rather than a matter of right and wrong?" This is the extent of philosophizing that happens in these books. I wish Green had actually studied some philosophy on morality because this is so painful to read. Contrast what Green wrote to this excerpt from Sanderson's Way of Kings: "That was horrible," Shallan finally said, hand still held to her breast. "It was one of the most awful things I've ever experienced. You killed four men." "Four men who were planning to beat, rob, kill, and possibly rape us." "You tempted them into coming for us!" "Did I force them to commit any crimes?" "You showed off your gemstones." "Can a woman not walk with her possessions down the street of a city?" "At night?" Shallan asked. "Through a rough area? Displaying wealth? You all but asked for what happened!" "Does that make it right?" Jasnah said, leaning forward. "Do you condone what the men were planning to do?" "Of course not. But that doesn't make what you did right either!" "And yet, those men are off the street. The people of this city are that much safer. The issue that Taravangian has been so worried about has been solved, and no more theatergoers will fall to those thugs. How many lives did I just save?" "I know how many you just took," Shallan said. "And through the power of something that should be holy!" <snip> "Am I a monster or am I a hero? Did I just slaughter four men, or did I stop four murderers from walking the streets? Does one deserve to have evil done to her by consequence of putting herself where evil can reach her? Did I have a right to defend myself? Or was I just looking for an excuse to end lives?" Now granted, we're comparing a conversation between a young courtesan and a young merchant housewife, versus a conversation between a leading scholar and her talented ward, so the characters are on entirely different levels. But come on! A little more effort would be nice. quote:"That's what they want us to believe, but it isn't so," Jovvi said, beginning to enter that marvelous bath. "If you remember that most people have ulterior motives when they tell you you have to do something, you'll find it easier to refuse. And if I happen to fall asleep in here, wake me up when you're ready to leave. I'd hate to come out tomorrow morning looking as shriveled as a prune." At this point, Tamrissa should be asking herself what Jovvi's ulterior motives are. quote:Tamrissa laughed and promised not to leave without waking her, if Jovvi would do her the same favor. The two of them took pleasure in the warm water and swimming about a little before choosing corners to soak in, but Jovvi's pleasure was slightly dimmed. The poor child's body was scarred in one or two places, giving Jovvi some idea of what that marriage had been like. No wonder she was shy about being seen without clothes. You can't write a monologue where the character spends most of the monologue thinking about inconsequential things and then end it with a decision like this! The point of a monologue is to have the character wrestle with a decision and then come to a decision. quote:Would they ever get to the point where they would no longer have to pass the tests to stay alive? That was Jovvi's most pressing question as she snuggled down comfortably in bed. After that came all the other questions she and Tamrissa had discussed, a list too long to be considered when she was half asleep. Tomorrow she'd think about it again, and maybe even discuss it with one or two of the men. It would be a good excuse to get Lorand Coll alone, but not Vallant Ro. Tamrissa actually liked him, although she wasn't up to admitting it even to herself. It's like Green has no idea how to plot a chapter tightly so that there's a logical arc to it. All things considered, I suppose we should be surprised that there is an arc at all across all eight books. Summary: Day 2 After an angsty, silent breakfast where everyone is stewing in their own thoughts, and a lunch with boring small talk, everyone is taken to be fitted for their Grown Up Magic Not-School Uniforms. The group splits up at the fittings:
Counts so far: NAMED ON-SCREEN CHARACTERS WHO WE'LL NEVER SEE AGAIN: 14 Mildon Coll, Phor Riven, Jeris Womal, Eldra Sappin, Fod, Lord Astrath, Torrin Ro, Vish "the Fish", Jamrin, Hark, Reshin, Fellar, Ennis, Vosin, Parli Hafford, Regensi TOTALLY INDISTINCT ON-SCREEN LOCATIONS: 7 Rincammon, Haven Wraithside, Tamrissa's house in Gan Garee, Port Entril, testing facility in Gan Garee, Regensi's shop, Ginge's tavern MEALS ON-SCREEN: 4 Day 1 (lunch, dinner), Day 2 (breakfast, lunch, dinner) EUPHEMISMS FOR BODY PARTS: 9 Male: <character name>'s body (x2), discomfort (x1), manhood (x1), desire (x2), renewed need (x1) Female: womanhood (x1), entrance of ultimate bliss (x1), desire (x1), incredible tunnel (x1) TERMS OF ENDEARMENT: 3 Male: love (x1), my fleeting love (x1) Female: sweet girl (x1) PLOTHOLES: 19 COACH RIDES: 13 MEETINGS IN COACHES: 3 OTHER MEETINGS: 1 INTERRUPTED MONOLOGUING: 17 "CLIFFHANGERS": 9 POINTLESS TAMRISSA NARRATION: 8 TEA DRINKING: 3 BLATANT MORALIZING: 13 BATH SCENES: 6 WILFUL MISUNDERSTANDINGS: 4 MIND CONTROL: 5 BADLY WRITTEN SEX SCENES: 1 REPETITIVE POV EVENTS:
Possible fixes: Apart from the problems due to pacing, bloat, repetition, etc, this book is dragging so much because every main character's relationships with every other main character is non-existent. Starting the story from a point where some of these characters have a history would go a long way to fixing this. Chapters 20 and 24 are really focused on establishing the Jovvi and Tamrissa relationship - and as per the suggested fixes on Chapter 23, I'd move all of this into backstory for these two characters. If we needed to see these events on screen in a flashback (and assuming we didn't make the larger scale changes outlined at the end of Chapter 23), I'd condense Chapters 17, 18, 19, 20 and 24 into a single Jovvi chapter. Most of the actual sequence could be kept intact but Jovvi's POV would need to be rewritten so we get a clear sense of Jovvi's motivations and goals. And since the sex mechanic is important to the magic and plot critical, Jovvi is plausibly bi and an experienced courtesan, it should go like this:
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Sep 10, 2020 15:39
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quote:CHAPTER TWENTY-FIVE Is someone using Earth magic on you harder to detect or is it because Clarion was still drunk even after Lorand made him more sober? quote:He raised his arms and gently ran both hands through his hair, his thoughts centering instead on the unexpected. He'd decided that if he watched the others and did as they did he'd begin to learn what he needed to know, but he'd never anticipated anything like last night. He felt as if he'd floated through it, half a participant and half an observer, actually performing those acts while at the same time watching it all from a short distance off. That must be because of the way he'd acted, unlike anything someone who knew him would have recognized. Shameless plug for romance novels! Because they are such realistic and authentic depictions of how normal, healthy, stable, relationships between mature consenting adults work! Just take a look at any of Sharon Green's works! quote:Now he knew what those enigmatic things were, and felt a brief but very intense burst of outrage that he'd been kept from them so long. He'd lain with that lovely, dark-haired girl the way those heroes had lain with the ladies they'd rescued, and the writer's words hadn't been nearly adequate enough to describe the pleasure to be had. Ok, maybe I should give Clarion a pass on his POV chapter using such awful euphemisms for body parts. Maybe he was reading romance novels with lurid prose and just ran with it. I wonder what exactly he was picturing in his head when he was reading about men entering incredible tunnels of ultimate bliss. quote:Men did that with ladies all the time, Coll had said, but before last night he hadn't even known it was possible. And after having had the experience he felt different, somehow, more relaxed and in some obscure manner not the same man. What he'd turned into wasn't clear at all, but there was no doubt about his being different. Why are we getting another monologue about this, you already thought about this last night! quote:And in any event it was Mother's lacks, not the girl's, which had kept him from learning the truth sooner . . . ...oh, Green had trouble finding a segue to this point. Which we covered in Clarion's previous POV chapter, because it was stated outright by Lorand. quote:Clarion got out of bed and went to wash his face, needing the touch of cool water when his thoughts reached a point he now understood only too well. He remembered asking Coll why they'd had to leave so early, and Coll had gently put him off. Now, without the floating caused by all that brew, he understood clearly why they'd had to leave. Those people in the tavern had been afraid of them, and all because of what they'd done to stop that roughhousing. At one point in his life Clarion would have-gloried in being feared by others, a condition he'd considered far superior to being laughed at by them. But now that he'd had the experience, he realized how childishly narrowminded he'd been. It wasn't satisfying to be feared, it was depressing, and not only because their excellent carouse had been interrupted. Two steps forward and one step back. I guess it was too much to hope for a 180 on the classist attitude within the space of one transformational life experience. quote:"I can't imagine why I never noticed that before," Clarion mused, frowning down at the table. "Everyone talks about Middles and Highs and some even know where practicing Middles live and work, but they never turn up at parties even as novelties. Middles aren't quite good enough even if they're members of our class, and Highs are much too busy with truly important matters to be imposed upon. Or at least that was what everyone always said. . . ." And that is different to your previous life...how? You weren't invited to any parties or considered a part of any of the noble in-groups, ever. quote:So Clarion now had some serious thinking to do. Going back to the way things had been would have been impossible for him even under ordinary circumstances, but at least then he would have had the option. Now he had to find an altogether different life for himself, preferably one that involved his power level equals as well as his social equals. That meant staying with this tiresome testing program and doing his utmost best, which should eventually end him among those he belonged with— We are covering absolutely no new ground with this monologue. quote:With so many people in the house I hadn't expected a quiet morning, but that was just what I got. No one was in the dining room when I went down to breakfast, but I learned that Beldara Lant had been there before me. The men had returned after the rest of us were already in bed, so no one expected them down for a while. Jovvi Hafford had apparently chosen to sleep late as well, so I ate alone except for my thoughts. Seriously, on a reread after knowing how the sequel series ends, it's really hard not to read this as someone from a full Blending influencing things subtly from the background with Spirit magic undetected by the protagonists. quote:I sat back for a moment with my cup of tea, considering that changed outlook. Before yesterday afternoon, I would have been frantic to realize that something wasn't quite right with the system I'd been counting on to free me from my parents' influence. Now it was just a vexing problem that needed to be investigated, but nothing to get frantic over. If I couldn't become a High I'd do something else, me and the person who was now my friend. Yes, this is going to drag out for more chapters. quote:I finished breakfast while my thoughts wandered to improbable places, then went to the library and sat down to read. Second rest day was the time I'd begun to insist that no one intrude on my privacy, and the staff had finally learned that that included their problems. They were all quick enough to make sure their own rest days were undisturbed, but mine had tended to be open to the world. Now that I'd managed to get an entire day to myself, I felt reluctant to give it up—although the change in circumstance had to be considered. If everyone appeared for lunch I might have to share the afternoon, but the morning was going to be mine. Oh look, the novel equivalent of a "random encounter"! Since Green's written herself into a corner where the protagonists can't actually do anything, she has to manufacture drama by having it show up on their literal doorstep. quote:I suddenly remembered how much I'd loved my father as a child, just the way all his friends and business associates loved him. He was a fairly tall man with hair as blond as mine, slightly overweight with a round and jolly face and warm gray eyes. It was extremely rare to see him without a smile, and his voice was never raised in anger. People had always joked privately that they were amazed his marriage to an ice princess like my mother had turned out so well, but apparently even ice princesses weren't immune to his charm. Nice characterization, now how about trying to show it to us instead of telling us? quote:"Tamrissa, child, how good it is to see you again," my father said in his warm, friendly baritone, smiling lovingly at me. "Do come closer so that I may feast my eyes. I've let business keep me away far too long, but that's over with now. I promise we'll be seeing a lot more of each other from now on." More incest overtones. quote:"You shouldn't make promises it won't be possible to keep, Father," I said after I swallowed, reluctantly moving to a place about six feet away from them. "You won't get this house away from me without a fight, and even if I lose then I won't return to your roof. I've already told that to Mother, and now I say it to you: you'll never have the chance to sell me again." Odrin Hallasser is genuinely terrifying. Also we're just over half way through the first book without any of the primary conflicts being resolved and Green's introducing yet another antagonist (like we don't have enough of them already). Guess it's time to start a counter of antagonists.quote:"I won't do it," I managed to get out, tearing my gaze away from the thing in human form trying to capture it and me. "You can't force me to marry, so I won't do it. Find another sacrifice for that . . . that. . ." You JUST refused him?  so clearly it's not impossible?quote:"Ah, Tamrissa, good morning," I suddenly heard, and then Jovvi was stopping beside me. "I don't mean to interrupt, but I've been thinking about the conversation we had yesterday. If you intend to sell this house I'll be glad to buy it from you, and I'm even willing to pay a bit above what others might offer. This is exactly the kind of neighborhood I've always wanted to live in, and you know you'll always be welcome here—for as long as you care to stay." Why do we need to see Jovvi rescue Tamrissa again? Friendship established, let's move on! quote:"What she says or doesn't say is beside the point," my father countered before I could speak, his manner now more sleek and self-satisfied than open and friendly. "This marriage was arranged on her behalf, and Dom Hallasser would be fully within his rights to sue both me and her if anything should interfere. Again, I'm quite certain the courts would insist on having the marriage gone through with rather than allowing me to suffer for having acted out of concern for my child." See, this actually advances the Tamrissa/Vallant romance subplot! quote:And daddy would certainly stand behind me with every copper he has." Dude, you just undermined yourself. Badly. quote:And then Vallant Ro was standing beside me to my right, his arm coming to circle my shoulders. I had the strongest urge to gape at him after what he'd said, but all that support let me find something of my own to say. No potential matches on the horizon and then suddenly engaged to some random guy your parents have never met? Your father would have to be pretty oblivious not to see through that one. quote:He had to put a hand to his "friend's" arm to get his attention, and then all three of them left. The awful man hadn't stopped staring at me the entire time, and I couldn't keep from shivering again. My father had said that he refused to give up, and the thought of having to face him again made me sick to my stomach. ...not really? He's relying on his trust fund and Papa Ro's stacks of gold and lines of credit at the Gan Garee bank to fight a threat of a lawsuit with another lawsuit. quote:"Discouragin' them was what I had in mind," Vallant Ro said, having taken his arm away as soon as my "visitors" were out the door. "I've never liked seein' the helpless bein' taken advantage of, so if—'Tamakins'—needs my help again, it will be my pleasure to supply it." Annnnd you just put your foot in it again. quote:"Helpless," I echoed, feeling even worse as I straightened away from Jovvi. "Everyone thinks I'm helpless, but I refuse to let all of you be right. I will be strong, and I won't give up no matter what they do. And for the sake of sanity, don't ever call me that nauseating name again!" Then maybe you should have prioritized this! quote:and should have thanked him for helping, but instead I'd yelled at him and then had stalked off in insult. And all because he'd gotten even on his own by calling me helpless. Aren't you and Jovvi closer than blood sisters now? Anyway, this was actually good characterization so I'm not going to include this as a wilful misunderstanding. I'm not sure if Green realizes that Tamrissa's just coming across as a socially inept person who is bad at reading people and extremely thin skinned rather than innocent. To be honest, I'm not really sure what Green was going for with "innocent" and why she would even go down that route because you already have Clarion rounding out the group as the innocent one so this just seems like unnecessary doubling up. quote:Maybe I'd been deluding myself into thinking I could win, in the tests as well as against my parents. Maybe I ought to just give it all up, pick a direction, and simply walk away. I'd heard it said that if you wander too far, you can never find your way home again-Even if you actually have a home ... or something to make you want to go back . . . instead of wanting to be dead. . . . Wanting to be dead is going to be a desire that Tamrissa will never let go of. All the way into the end of Book 5. Summary: Day 3 Tamrissa experiences her first random encounter, with her parents and intended second husband showing up on her doorstep unannounced. Jovvi and Vallant come to her rescue. Counts so far: NAMED ON-SCREEN CHARACTERS WHO WE'LL NEVER SEE AGAIN: 15 Mildon Coll, Phor Riven, Jeris Womal, Eldra Sappin, Fod, Lord Astrath, Torrin Ro, Vish "the Fish", Jamrin, Hark, Reshin, Fellar, Ennis, Vosin, Parli Hafford, Regensi, Weeks TOTALLY INDISTINCT ON-SCREEN LOCATIONS: 7 Rincammon, Haven Wraithside, Tamrissa's house in Gan Garee, Port Entril, testing facility in Gan Garee, Regensi's shop, Ginge's tavern MEALS ON-SCREEN: 5 Day 1 (lunch, dinner), Day 2 (breakfast, lunch, dinner), Day 3 (breakfast) EUPHEMISMS FOR BODY PARTS: 9 Male: <character name>'s body (x2), discomfort (x1), manhood (x1), desire (x2), renewed need (x1) Female: womanhood (x1), entrance of ultimate bliss (x1), desire (x1), incredible tunnel (x1) TERMS OF ENDEARMENT: 3 Male: love (x1), my fleeting love (x1) Female: sweet girl (x1) ANTAGONISTS: 9 (I'll only up the counter either when the protagonists recognise that these characters are antagonists or we get explicit in-text confirmation to avoid spoilers. Henchmen/subordinates are not counted separately) General: Unnamed Chairman and the five Seated Highs in each aspect Lorand: Eskin Drowd Jovvi: Allestine and her henchmen Ark and Bar, Clarion: Hallina Mardimil, Eskin Drowd Tamrissa: Storn and Avrina Torgar, Beldara Lant, Odrin Hallasser Vallant: Mirra Agran PLOTHOLES: 19 COACH RIDES: 13 MEETINGS IN COACHES: 3 OTHER MEETINGS: 1 INTERRUPTED MONOLOGUING: 19 "CLIFFHANGERS": 9 POINTLESS TAMRISSA NARRATION: 8 TEA DRINKING: 4 BLATANT MORALIZING: 13 BATH SCENES: 6 WILFUL MISUNDERSTANDINGS: 4 MIND CONTROL: 5 BADLY WRITTEN SEX SCENES: 1 REPETITIVE POV EVENTS:
Possible fixes: Clarion's entire POV section in this chapter covers no new ground so it should be ripped up into tiny pieces and thrown into the ocean. I'm not a fan of the "random encounter" mechanism used by Green to escalate the conflict between Tamrissa and her parents and advance the Tamrissa/Vallant romance subplot. Using the threat of a second marriage to advance the romance is probably ok, but unnecessary just from looking at the various loose ends for Tamrissa as a character:
All of these things would probably be ok if Tamrissa was the sole protagonist but we have four other protagonists to balance and they all have similarly long lists. Green would have been better off picking 2-3 things and making those arcs deeper. In that light, I would probably change Tamrissa's arc as follows:
Leng fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Sep 11, 2020 |
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Sep 11, 2020 14:17
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Honestly, I don't like the idea of Tamrissa becoming a courtesan. She doesn't have a natural interest in the profession and there's no reason for her to be pushed into it because she's not totally broke in world where there are no other options. What if she turns the house into a temporary boarding house for some quick cash. That means you can still have these characters all coming into town for the testing, and staying in the same place, but you can ditch the needless bureaucratic manipulations. Then you have Tam worrying about what she's going to do for money with the testing is all over, and Jodi has the idea of turning it into a proper tea house (of whatever finer establishment for procuring sex workers you prefer) for her to work out of; Tam puts up the house and Jodi puts up her gold for starting capitol and they start a business together. As for the testing, it would make more sense if people just dodged on the testing all the time and the authorities know that but don't really give a gently caress. The motivation of the bad guys isn't to build an army of highs to invade (why keep that secret when you could stoke a nationalistic fury over it and have mass support for you imperial ambitions) it's to divide up the powerful so there's no threat to the noble's control. So they create a testing system and if you're found to be too powerful then you get disappeared into some unknown position of power, and no one ever sees or hears from you again. This makes a lot of people start underplaying their skills because they don't want to be taken away, and people slowly forget what really powerful talent looks like. So in a few generations you end up with a lot of powerful people being ignorant of how truly strong they are because being flashy is discouraged. A few ambitious people deliberately go for testing, or show off when they shouldn't and have to go, and they get brainwashed and sent to the high talent army that's being used to attack a different country that still has common blendings, if flawed ones, because the nobles don't want anyone knowing that you can blend outside the seated high. That way you can diversify people's back stories more, like Lorand volunteered for testing to get out of his podunk town, Valant did something actually heroic which outed him, while Tamrissa doesn't know she's all that powerful at all.
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Sep 11, 2020 15:53
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Oof, I just caught up on like a week’s worth of chapters all at once. My mind feels....blended. I’d forgotten that these scenes happened so early in the series. In my memory Book 1 was an entirely symmetrical POV rotation from introductions to testing to competitions. So I have to give Green credit for breaking it up a little. I actually like the bar fight scene where everyone realizes just how different they are from the rest of the populace, especially Pagin who’s coming to this realization in front of friends instead of strangers. This is a much more compelling way for the characters to demonstrate their strength than the snoozefest fireballs. Re: polyamory, I think the solution is to go all-in like There Wolf is describing, or else to cut it out entirely. Maybe my memory is just faulty again or else there’s more stuff in the later series, but I recall that by the end of Book 5 they’ve settled into some pretty firm monogamous pairs. The “polyamory” of earlier books is either a) forced drama or b) flimsy worldbuilding contrivance in service of the same. (“Our magic works better if everyone sleeps together! Also, don’t let the dicks touch!”) It seems more driven by external necessity than characters’ desires, and is dropped when convenient. To really make the poly aspect shine I’d want to see how the characters behave in subgroups bigger than pairs but smaller than the whole Blending. We see how Tamrissa and Jovvi have a budding sisterhood and how Lorand is taking a friendly interest in Rion. But what is the Lorand-Vallant-Jovvi dynamic like and how is it different from Lorand-Vallant-Tamrissa? How do the rest of the characters behave when just one person is missing? Do they get more bawdy when innocent Rion is absent or more fractious when Jovvi isn’t holding them all together? Magic: the Gathering has a good parallel here since it also deals with the blending of elemental magic. There are 31 possible permutations of the five game colors (counting solo colors) and each of them has a good deal of discussion on the philosophy and mindset that the combination represents. In a 5-person polycule there are that many distinct relationships you could write about.
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Sep 12, 2020 08:22
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wizzardstaff posted:I actually like the bar fight scene where everyone realizes just how different they are from the rest of the populace, especially Pagin who's coming to this realization in front of friends instead of strangers. This is a much more compelling way for the characters to demonstrate their strength than the snoozefest fireballs. Yep! That tavern sequence is legitimately the best sequence in Book 1. Pagin's actually a fascinating character - he's more lowborn than everyone in the main cast other than Jovvi but he's actually smarter and more observant than all of them as well. He's the one who points out that it's a competition year, and later, when they are tackling the mind control stuff, he thinks of something critical that everyone else overlooks. there wolf posted:That way you can diversify people's back stories more, like Lorand volunteered for testing to get out of his podunk town, Valant did something actually heroic which outed him, while Tamrissa doesn't know she's all that powerful at all. So many good ideas! I think you've hit the nail on the head here. While the back stories are superficially different, they all feel too same-y to actually create distinctive characters. wizzardstaff posted:To really make the poly aspect shine I'd want to see how the characters behave in subgroups bigger than pairs but smaller than the whole Blending. We see how Tamrissa and Jovvi have a budding sisterhood and how Lorand is taking a friendly interest in Rion. But what is the Lorand-Vallant-Jovvi dynamic like and how is it different from Lorand-Vallant-Tamrissa? How do the rest of the characters behave when just one person is missing? Do they get more bawdy when innocent Rion is absent or more fractious when Jovvi isn't holding them all together? Another great idea. Green doesn't really utilise most of those possible combinations after the primary relationships are established; instead she either has them discover things individually, as a full group or generally splits them along gender lines. There's sometimes small interactions in non-primary relationship pairs but it's very limited.
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Sep 12, 2020 21:58
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quote:CHAPTER TWENTY-SIX At least he's aware of his dickish behavior this time. quote:"She wasn't really angry with us, you know," a gentle voice said from behind him. "She's horribly frightened of what those people want to do to her, and she thinks her courage failed. It didn't really, but I can't think of a way to tell her so that she's likely to believe." No, you really did! quote:"She wasn't telling the truth," the beautiful woman said with a sigh, pain showing in her lovely eyes. "She was feeling despair rather than determination, and I can only hope she manages to pull out of it. That awful man ... I'd kill myself before I'd let him touch me." Somewhere in Vallant's backstory, is a time or many times when he got swindled as a merchant shipping captain and doesn't even know it (or more probably, thinks it was a huge success). quote:"No, not smitten," Jovvi answered quickly and firmly. "He has . . . centered on her as an object he means to possess, an item of obsession that won't let him rest until he owns it. I've come across people like him before, and they never take no for an answer. Her father's a fool for thinking he can deal with someone like that, because the man will use anything including him to get what he wants." Surprising that Jovvi says something like this, because if her Spirit magic lets her read emotions accurately, she should know that Storn Torgar doesn't care. Tamrissa is saleable merchandise to him, end of story. quote:"I think I knew someone like that once," Vallant said with a frown as a distant memory surfaced. "That man wanted my daddy's business, and set about tryin' to ruin it when Daddy refused to sell. I was young then and only startin' to ship out, and the man brought a bunch of paid bullies on board my ship one night. They were supposed to wreck the ship while he came after me, intendin' to kill me to pay Daddy back for refusin' his offer. He said as much before tryin' to throw me overboard near the place on deck where I slept." If Green wanted to paint Vallant as a hero, she should have opened Chapter 4 with this scene instead! quote:And you think this Hallasser is one like that?" Every time I think the dialogue's improved, we get unnatural moments like this. Nobody self announces that they've become friends with someone! quote:Vallant nodded his thanks for the offer, then headed directly for the library. If he hadn't been so distracted with worry about Tamrissa, he would have wondered about Jovvi's amusement. As it was, he reached the library door, knocked once, then walked in without waiting for a response. Look, the knock is an improvement but STOP WALKING INTO PRIVATE PLACES WITHOUT CONSENT. Tamrissa can't even see you through the door, there's every chance she wouldn't have assumed it was you and just told you to come in. quote:Tamrissa was in a chair, her beautiful face looking drawn and pale, and Vallant gave her no chance to order him out. "I know I'm a massive rear end in a top hat who doesn't understand the concept of personal boundaries especially when you've made it clear that you want nothing to do with me even before I manhandled you in front of your father on the false premise of being your fiancé - but just be cool with that, ok?" quote:"There's somethin' you need to know, and then I'll get out of your way again. But first I'd like to apologize for what I said. Somehow it came out soundin' as if I was callin' you helpless, but I really wasn't. It was the situation—" Uh, look Tamrissa, the guy is an rear end in a top hat but you were JUST THINKING that you needed to apologize to him AND you were berating yourself for not thanking him before. The mature, adult thing to do is to say "I'm sorry, I was really upset before and I forgot to thank you, and also apologize for what I said to you the day before. Now please go away and leave me in peace because I need some time to get myself together." quote:"I was tryin' to say that that was a misunderstandin'," Vallant replied, swallowing down a flash of his own annoyance as he moved a few steps closer to her chair. "That bunch thought they could make you helpless, but they were as wrong as it's possible to be. Even if Jovvi and I hadn't come along to help, you still would have been able to handle them." It's one thing for Green's characters to wilfully misunderstand misunderstand each other and go on about it in their internal monologue. It's another thing for them to be doing so OUT LOUD in front of the person they're misunderstanding. quote:But now that it's been seen to, Dom Ro, I'd like you to go away and leave me alone." He probably would be helpless because his entire identity is "daddy's boy", but she's actually not fine, and Jovvi definitely does not think she's fine. quote:"Jovvi's a friend, so what else would she say?" the beautiful female mule responded with a gesture of dismissal, a stubborn glint now in those incredible violet eyes. "And for someone who's not in the habit of lying, you seem to do well at it. Or was it my imagination that you said you'd asked me to marry you? No wonder you have trouble with women. Being a Knight in Shining Aspect will do it every time." Five minutes ago, you put Jovvi on the same level as Vallant, as mere acquaintances. Also Knight in Shining Aspect is hilariously dumb. quote:"That wasn't a lie, it was moral support," Vallant stated, now thoroughly annoyed. "You listen to me, little lady, and you listen good. I don't have trouble with 'women,' I have trouble with beautiful females who have too much spirit for their good and mine. You could have agreed to whatever your father said, which you would have if you really were helpless. Instead you stood there defyin' his right to use you like a worthless piece of trade goods, and that took more courage than most men have. It's easy to stand up for yourself when the person givin' you grief is a stranger, but it's damned hard when they're somebody who's supposed to love you. You are not helpless, and I don't ever want to hear you say you are again." Wow. You just referred to her as a :female:, yelled at her, dismissed her own feelings and then ordered her not to feel her own feelings because they're wrong.  quote:"Now see what you made me do," he grumbled after a moment of useless searching for the right thing to say. "I came in to apologize, and ended up yellin' at you instead. Just for that I ought to punish you by takin' a kiss." What? That is not the usual reaction. The usual reaction is a  RAPE RAPE RAPE warning going off in her head and her immediately looking to evacuate the area. The reaction you're thinking of ONLY happens when you've already had enough flirting on both sides and either an explicit or tacit consent that the relationship is going have a Dom/sub element to it.quote:Instead she went pale again, so quickly and completely that Vallant was shocked. And she'd begun to tremble! What in the name of the Five was wrong? LET GO OF HER and back up a few paces! Or maybe entirely out of the room, since she already asked you to leave. "What was it that frightened you so badly?" he put as gently as he knew how, watching her face. "I see now that it was a rotten joke, but do you dislike me that much? If so, I'll certainly leave at once—" quote:"No," she interrupted, clearly trying to pull herself together. "It wasn't really you at all. I—had an unpleasant marriage, and the ghost of it keeps haunting me. I don't want you to think you were responsible, not when you were just trying to help me. That would be very unfair." Because visiting physical violence on Gimmis (if he were alive) would solve everything. I wish I could just put this down to Vallant's characterization but Green's gone on and on at length about "fighters" and how we need more of them in society. quote:"Tamrissa, I want you to hear me and believe what you hear," he said then, slowly but deliberately reaching for her hand and taking it gently between both of his. "There's nothin' in this world that will ever make me hurt you, and what's more I'll never let anybody else hurt you either. I mean to be there if your daddy comes back with that friend of his, and if I'm not you'd better make sure I'm called. Will you do that?" This is a super uncomfortable dynamic. Green is trying to write "big strong protective hero" and I'm just reading Vallant as controlling.quote:May I have my hand back now?" Dude, she already knows. You're the only one who was that unobservant. quote:"Since it's nearly lunchtime, I think I'll go and freshen up," Vallant said when the silence grew too heavy. Who the hell "freshens up" before lunchtime when you've done nothing all morning? As far as we know, Vallant woke up late after sleeping off a hangover, in which case he should have done like Clarion and taken a bath before wandering around the house. Unless he had been on the way to take a bath when he saw Tamrissa's unwelcome guests, in which case someone would have noticed him reeking of alcohol, etc. (I know this is trying to show Vallant being awkward, but it's so uncharacteristic. He's supposed to be some smooth worldly womanizer, unlike Lorand and Clarion. He should be much better at reading people and at extricating himself out of potentially awkward social situations, or at least smoothing them over) quote:She sat staring down at her hands, obviously waiting for him to decide to leave. "I'll—see you in the dinin' room." FINALLY. quote:There were any number of things disturbing Vallant's thoughts, but one of them kept returning while he washed his hands in the room's basin. She'd said she believed his determination to stand beside her, but something about the way she'd behaved led him to believe she hadn't been telling the truth. She didn't believe him, but why in the world would she doubt— Sudden perceptiveness! quote:But had he been lying? There was something about Tamrissa Domon that drew him more strongly than any other woman he had ever met, maybe even more strongly than the need to go home to the sea again. We have never seen Vallant pay any attention to anything about Tamrissa that doesn't relate to her physical beauty. quote:How he would get around his problem with closed-in spaces he had no idea, but suddenly he wanted to get around it. He had to stay to help her, but the matter still came down to whether his affliction would allow it. It's not like this world has Spirit magic users who can directly read and manipulate emotions and therefore probably mind healers! quote:He'd given his solemn word, but would he be allowed to keep it? If his fear is that crippling, I don't understand how he manages to live inside a house at all. This selective claustrophobia is stupid. quote:Vallant took the hand towel and threw it as far as he could, then had to use the power to dry his hands. He seemed to have picked up the habit of acting thoughtlessly and then regretting it, but maybe things would change. Maybe some-how, in some way, he would find it possible not to be a liar after all. . . . What, Vallant not be an rear end in a top hat? Nah. Summary: Day 3 Tamrissa experiences her first random encounter, with her parents and intended second husband showing up on her doorstep unannounced. Jovvi and Vallant come to her rescue. An upset Tamrissa runs off to the library and is pursued by Vallant. An extremely uncomfortable scene where Vallant yells at her to not feel her emotions and threatens her with unwanted sexual contact as "punishment". Counts so far: NAMED ON-SCREEN CHARACTERS WHO WE'LL NEVER SEE AGAIN: 15 Mildon Coll, Phor Riven, Jeris Womal, Eldra Sappin, Fod, Lord Astrath, Torrin Ro, Vish "the Fish", Jamrin, Hark, Reshin, Fellar, Ennis, Vosin, Parli Hafford, Regensi, Weeks TOTALLY INDISTINCT ON-SCREEN LOCATIONS: 7 Rincammon, Haven Wraithside, Tamrissa's house in Gan Garee, Port Entril, testing facility in Gan Garee, Regensi's shop, Ginge's tavern MEALS ON-SCREEN: 5 Day 1 (lunch, dinner), Day 2 (breakfast, lunch, dinner), Day 3 (breakfast) EUPHEMISMS FOR BODY PARTS: 9 Male: <character name>'s body (x2), discomfort (x1), manhood (x1), desire (x2), renewed need (x1) Female: womanhood (x1), entrance of ultimate bliss (x1), desire (x1), incredible tunnel (x1) TERMS OF ENDEARMENT: 3 Male: love (x1), my fleeting love (x1) Female: sweet girl (x1) ANTAGONISTS: 9 (I'll only up the counter either when the protagonists recognise that these characters are antagonists or we get explicit in-text confirmation to avoid spoilers. Henchmen/subordinates are not counted separately) General: Unnamed Chairman and the five Seated Highs in each aspect Lorand: Eskin Drowd Jovvi: Allestine and her henchmen Ark and Bar, Clarion: Hallina Mardimil, Eskin Drowd Tamrissa: Storn and Avrina Torgar, Beldara Lant, Odrin Hallasser Vallant: Mirra Agran PLOTHOLES: 19 COACH RIDES: 13 MEETINGS IN COACHES: 3 OTHER MEETINGS: 1 INTERRUPTED MONOLOGUING: 20 "CLIFFHANGERS": 9 POINTLESS TAMRISSA NARRATION: 8 TEA DRINKING: 4 BLATANT MORALIZING: 13 BATH SCENES: 6 WILFUL MISUNDERSTANDINGS: 5 MIND CONTROL: 5 BADLY WRITTEN SEX SCENES: 1 REPETITIVE POV EVENTS:
Possible fixes: This whole sequence is so extremely uncomfortable that if we're supposed to be moving towards free flow happy polyamory situation that I think it needs to go entirely, or be rewritten so that Vallant is less of a controlling rear end in a top hat.
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Sep 12, 2020 22:45
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quote:CHAPTER TWENTY-SEVEN Actually good characterizaton! quote:Everyone had been upset except for Clarion, who'd been too tipsy to think the thing through. And Drowd, who'd left the tavern—and them—at the first hint of trouble starting. A whole night of reflection and you still can't see there's a middle ground between throwing magic around like you guys did and being subtle about it, since everybody else there was a Low talent so any single one of you would have been enough to stop them. quote:Lorand crouched beside a flower bed composed of jonquils and peonies, an odd combination that nevertheless attracted him. Anybody from the plants thread or into flowers? Flowers are not my thing so...why is this a weird combination? quote:All of the flowers and bushes and mosses and grasses seemed to have perked up only recently, as though something in the soil—or the atmosphere—had recently changed. He'd Encouraged the entire area in general when he'd first come out, and now could simply enjoy being near their happy eagerness to grow. In-text confirmation that plants and things move around happily when Lorand appears. quote:But the pleasure of that wasn't up to taking away all the unpleasantness of breakfast. Pagin Holter had been at the table when Lorand first walked in, but the little man had been so deep in his thoughts that Lorand had decided against disturbing him. Holter had worn a look of grieving since they'd left the tavern, his mind mourning the loss of something he couldn't speak of. Lorand knew he'd realized he could never go back to the places where he'd felt so at home, and he sympathized more fully than Holter would ever know. We've had so many chapters at this point that I feel like it's been an eternity and a half since Lorand was disowned. We're still in Day 3, so technically that was like...last week for Lorand. And since Chapter 1 Lorand has been entirely, "I expected my dad to blow up and I'm never coming back to this place ever", I don't buy that Lorand understands what Pagin is feeling at all. quote:A small amount of sunshine blossomed as the clouds briefly parted, then it disappeared again even more quickly than it had appeared. It took the beauty of the riotous garden colors with it, just as last night had taken the joy from Holter. Ow. quote:He'd had to offer his help, just as the rest of them had had to agree to do the same, and it wasn't fair, although that was hardly a comfort. Even Mardimil had been affected, since he'd done little more than greet Lorand warmly before sitting down with his meal and sinking into his thoughts. At least this guy only fondles plants with their consent. quote:Drowd had appeared after Mardimil, and his air of amused condescension had returned as though it had never been gone. He'd talked languidly about nothing as he filled his plate, but once he'd sat down he'd tried to go back to his old tricks again. This guy is the worst academic, or is maybe lying about being an academic, because when academics get into verbal fights, they don't clam up speechless. They pick apart logic, bring in both relevant and irrelevant examples, use obscure references, attack other people's credibility, look for ways to enhance their own credibility and status. Most of all, the style of most academics is not to pick verbal fights in the same way the tavern toughs from last night were looking for a physical fight, they generally make comments that are sufficiently ambiguous that it couldn't be obviously said to be an insult, but you know that they're just steadily making subtle digs about you to anyone who's listening so that the cumulative effect drags down your reputation. quote:"But it's too nice having him quiet," Lorand murmured to another flower before straightening. "If the others don't do anything to make it happen, I'll have to try my own hand at it." If this attitude was that common in Widdertown, then more of it should have been evident in Lorand's thoughts in Chapter 1, as well as in the dialogue from Camil and Phor. Also Book 5 spoilers by the time they return to Widdertown, Green has forgotten all about this. I'm calling plothole. quote:No, the people he'd grown up among would turn their backs if they learned he'd passed the first test for High, but so what? It wasn't as if he'd ever expected to go back there, so what they thought made no difference at all. They and their values could drop into a bottomless pit, and Lorand would do no more than say good riddance. That's the end of this internal monologue and I'm not sure what we got out of it. Lorand's concluding sentiment was already established way before this chapter. quote:He turned away from the garden and toward the house, knowing it should be getting on toward lunchtime. It had only been a few hours since he'd finished breakfast and he hadn't done anything particularly strenuous, but when lunch was served he would be there to eat it. I would have liked this scene much more if we saw Lorand absently grazing on edible plants from Tamrissa's garden as morning tea and everyone else was like, what are you doing?! quote:But then he saw Jovvi Hafford strolling out of the house with a smile of real amusement on her face, and all thought of food suddenly disappeared. Yes, yes, we all remember that horrible lazy bath sequence. quote:"I've been trying to find the chance to talk to you again, but life hasn't been willing to cooperate. Until now. What were you laughing about when you first came out?" It's been THREE DAYS into the Vallant/Tamrissa drama and we've now had (checks OP) at least 7 chapters on this when counting chapters where either Vallant or Tamrissa or just other characters are discussing their drama. I never watched soap operas or anything, but I did spend my youth religiously watching teen dramas like The O.C. and Dawson's Creek. Green's pacing of relationship drama - like her pacing of everything else - is terrible. quote:"I can understand how he feels, and I sympathize. There are some things just too . . . impossible to discuss." FFS why can't the male characters in this book stop GRABBING WOMEN AND KISSING THEM AT WILL?! Yes, Jovvi is obviously hitting on him but we've seen NO CUES in text of her consent. Flirting =/= consent, Green! quote:Silken didn't begin to describe them, especially when they immediately began to join in the kiss. His hand went to her glorious hair as her arms slid around his middle, and then Lorand was lost to an experience more intense than what he'd had above the tavern the night before. You're just lucky that we know from Jovvi's POVs she's into you. quote:It was quite a while before the kiss ended, and when it finally did Lorand had to keep an iron hold on his control-He wanted nothing so much as to lift her in his arms and carry her to his bed, but that, unfortunately, would have been rushing things more than most women cared for. This does not stop Lorand from rushing things differently later in this chapter. quote:"If that's the way you hate, I hope you eventually get to loathe me," Lorand murmured after kissing her still-closed eyes. Jovvi never said she hated you. You guys were gossiping about Tamrissa and Vallant.quote:"And in case you were wondering, the dance was the best I ever attended." Usually there has to be some sort of actual courtship or sex before you start using this dancing euphemism. quote:"I was hoping you were, and I haven't been disappointed. I find you very attractive, Lorand Coll, and I'm glad you find me the same." This part of the conversation should have happened BEFORE the kiss - which should have been initiated by Jovvi. This dynamic makes sense for the early stage Jovvi/Lorand relationship - she's the worldly experienced courtesan making the moves on a young farmboy fresh to the big city. quote:Lorand stopped to keep from falling into that bottomless pit he'd been thinking about earlier, wondering in passing why his command of the language seemed to have deserted him completely. A man was considered crude if he mentioned his intentions straight out, a lesson he'd learned at an early age. The only kind of girl you behaved that way with was one you paid, another part of the same lesson. He would have to find a gracefully roundabout way to ask his question, Real smooth, Lorand. Also, unlike Vallant, you technically haven't put your foot in it yet. You just need to finish that statement with "–bed. Because if you don't, would you like to go for another walk in the gardens with me?" Since I'm pretty sure walking in the gardens is the fantasy some time in 17th century/Victoria/Regency era British equivalent of going on a date, assuming Green's just going off Pride and Prejudice entirely. quote:but before the proper words showed up they were interrupted by the appearance of Clarion Mardimil. Hahahahahahahahahahaha, beaten to the punch. quote:"Clarion, I need to have a word with you," Lorand said hastily, taking Mardimil's arm. "Let's step back a short way toward the house." Probably because she knew you were just about to proposition her! quote:"Really, Lorand, what's gotten into you?" Mardimil demanded with annoyance as he finally managed to free his arm. "You interrupted before the lady was able to give me her answer." How would you know? You haven't actually spent any time talking to Jovvi and getting to know her as a person during the two conversations you've had in the bath house and just now. quote:Any other woman would have gotten terribly insulted, and it's simply your good fortune that she's kinder than that." Depends on the woman. Because women are people, who are individuals. I realise that is mind boggling, but work with me here Lorand. quote:"You're saying it isn't done?" Mardimil asked, his frown now showing confusion. "I hadn't realized there was different protocol for different occasions and situations. Good grief, how complicated does this get?"  quote:"Were you really taught nothing at all about. . . associating with women? It isn't necessary to sleep with them in order to learn how to behave in their company. Weren't you ever out alone with girls?" Based on what happened in this scene right before Clarion walked in, I'm not convinced that Lorand has ever done this. quote:"Alone?" Mardimil echoed, a distant look in his eyes. "No, not alone. I apologize for blundering so badly, Lorand, and would like to apologize to Dama Hafford as well." Last night you took him under your wing like a little lost chick and this morning we're back to "poor fool"? Come on. quote:"Jovvi, Clarion would like to apologize for what he said," Lorand began as soon as they'd retraced their steps. "He really didn't mean to insult you, it was just ... a mistake." Jovvi, you traitor. The greatest compliment a PERSON can receive is a compliment on WHO THEY ARE, not what other people want to do to them. quote:Possibly, if you will allow it, I can return the gift with one of my own." Your internal monologue regarding Clarion has been changing so rapidly that this could be due to a headache rather than sympathy. quote:"Thank you," Jovvi said with one of her devastating smiles, her hand still on Mardimil's arm. "My gift is something that I promise will help you—if you decide to use it. If you don't, you won't be any worse off than you are right now. I would like to give you a different name: Rion. In my opinion it suits you far better than the one you have, even though it comes from the original. What do you think of it? Is it possible you may decide to use it?" Jovvi should do more things like this to show us all what a perceptive person and good judge of character she is. If only. quote:"Which worked even more against his coming out into the world," Jovvi agreed. "And very frankly, his request surprised me. Only yesterday I had the distinct impression he had no idea what men do with women." this is setting me off badly in all sorts of ways. I don't care if a guy thinks I'm a whatever on his scale of who cares with who knows what kind of arbitrary conditions and criteria - it's still insulting if he's treating me like a sex object instead of a person.quote:"But that's not a subject I'm used to discussing with ladies—even if they do seem to know more about it than I do. And while we're on the point, how do you know so much? You aren't— married?" Lorand just jumping right off the cliff, into waters filled with hungry sharks, while bleeding from a gut wound here. So much for not "rushing things". quote:"Marriage?" she echoed, raising her brows. "Why would I want to get married? And being the most famous courtesan in and around Rincammon wasn't terrible at all. Quite the opposite, in fact, not to mention enriching to the purse. If things don't work out with this High practitioner business, I mean to open my own residence here in Gan Garee. But that doesn't mean I can't have a . . . special patron, one who will never be required to pay. You aren't too shy to accept something like that, are you?" Yes, of course the WOMAN is wrong about what is right for her and her choices when it comes to her body, and all it will take to straight out the mess is for the MAN to tell her so and control what she's allowed to do and think. And by "wonderful" Lorand means "hot" because they've gone straight from learning each other's names while seeing each other naked, to kissing, to an unwanted marriage proposal that was rejected, to a conflicted acceptance of friends with benefits, to foreplay. I am supposed to be engaged in reading more about this relationship why again? quote:Clarion—no, Rion! —walked into the dining room for dinner a bit early. He'd managed to miss lunch entirely, so taken had he been with the wonder of his new name, and now he was starving. Yes, starving, rather than quite hungry, the namby-pamby phrase Clarion would have used. Clarion had been a cripple too twisted even to see straight, but Rion was a man who simply had a few things yet to learn. It had surely been the Rion part of him which had become determined to learn, and now all of him was the same and under the proper name. I'm picturing Rion just wandering aimlessly throughout Tamrissa's house murmuring his new name to himself. quote:No one was at the table when Rion took his seat, which was disappointing even though expected. But the others were fairly prompt, so there shouldn't be too much of a wait. In the interim he took one of the fresh-baked rolls placed on the table by a servant, something else that poor fool Clarion never would have done. He'd been taught not to ruin his appetite by nibbling before a meal, and that no matter how hungry he was. Rion, however, was free to think for himself, not to mention satisfy part of his hunger with a roll. To be fair, filling up on bread means there's less room in your stomach for more expensive and possibly tastier things. quote:Rion had been looking forward to the others arriving, but unfortunately the first to walk in was the liar Drowd. Rion gave the man a cool appraisal as he approached the table, making no effort to avoid the other's gaze. Drowd no longer disturbed him, not in any way at all. This is the first really effective thing Drowd has done as an antagonist. quote:Drowd fell silent then, but that didn't matter since Rion was no longer listening anyway. He now waited for the others with a different purpose, and when Coll escorted Jovvi into the room, a bolt of pain flashed through Rion. From the way Coll looked at Jovvi, there was no possible doubt. He wanted the woman and planned to have her, even though it was Rion she'd given that marvelous gift to. If not for Coll, he would be the one she smiled at so beautifully. . . . Dude, being nice to you does not mean she wants to sleep with you. quote:Rion ate the food put in front of him, but the details of what it was blurred behind his thinking and planning. If Coll were put out of the way somehow, he would have a clear path to Jovvi. Disappointment in Coll let Rion do that planning, a painful disappointment he hadn't expected to experience. Muck-foot or not, Coll had started to be a friend, but friends weren't supposed to behave the way he had. Rion had never had a friend, but even he knew that much. Just when I was starting to like Rion as a character, Green just has him casually plotting Lorand's murder at the dinner table so he can sleep with Jovvi. quote:"Excuse me," a voice said, cutting through thoughts and table conversation alike. "I have an announcement you all need to hear." This is literally all Eltrina comes to do. Green never goes into what kind of salary or benefits come with Eltrina's job, but this is a lot of menial make work for a suitably high ranked member of the nobility to be doing. If I had to waste a few hours every second evening around dinner time driving around to half a dozen different houses just to drop off pieces of paper and make logistical announcements, I would rage quit on the spot. This is literally work that could be done by messengers. quote:With that she came forward to distribute the sheets of paper, leaving Rion, at least, undecided. Tomorrow they would all be tested again, so maybe he would do well to change his plans. It would be foolish to do away with Coll tonight—foolish and hard to force himself to actually do— when one of the tests tomorrow could well do the job for him. Yes, that was the ticket, he'd let the tests kill Coll for him, and do it himself only if Coll survived. Who else has whiplash? I want the alternate story where Rion did try to assassinate Lorand in the middle of the night over Jovvi to play out. It'd be interesting to see how they move past that to happy polyness forever. Summary: Day 3 Lorand fondles plants in the garden, is interrupted by Jovvi and starts kissing and fondling Jovvi instead. He's awkwardly trying to ask her to sleep with him when Clarion interrupts them to ask Jovvi if she wants to sleep with him instead. Lorand pulls Clarion aside to say "no, bad, don't do that" and Jovvi renames Clarion to Rion, who wanders away aimlessly repeating his new name to himself until dinner time. Meanwhile, Lorand discovers Jovvi is a courtesan who has no interest in his marriage proposal and would rather make him her number one stud instead. After Eskin clues Rion in on the Lorand/Jovvi relationship, Rion spends the rest of dinner plotting murder before changing his mind. Counts so far: NAMED ON-SCREEN CHARACTERS WHO WE'LL NEVER SEE AGAIN: 15 Mildon Coll, Phor Riven, Jeris Womal, Eldra Sappin, Fod, Lord Astrath, Torrin Ro, Vish "the Fish", Jamrin, Hark, Reshin, Fellar, Ennis, Vosin, Parli Hafford, Regensi, Weeks TOTALLY INDISTINCT ON-SCREEN LOCATIONS: 7 Rincammon, Haven Wraithside, Tamrissa's house in Gan Garee, Port Entril, testing facility in Gan Garee, Regensi's shop, Ginge's tavern MEALS ON-SCREEN: 5 Day 1 (lunch, dinner), Day 2 (breakfast, lunch, dinner), Day 3 (breakfast, lunch, dinner) EUPHEMISMS FOR BODY PARTS: 9 Male: <character name>'s body (x2), discomfort (x1), manhood (x1), desire (x2), renewed need (x1) Female: womanhood (x1), entrance of ultimate bliss (x1), desire (x1), incredible tunnel (x1) TERMS OF ENDEARMENT: 3 Male: love (x1), my fleeting love (x1) Female: sweet girl (x1) ANTAGONISTS: 9 General: Unnamed Chairman and the five Seated Highs in each aspect Lorand: Eskin Drowd Jovvi: Allestine and her henchmen Ark and Bar, Clarion: Hallina Mardimil, Eskin Drowd Tamrissa: Storn and Avrina Torgar, Beldara Lant, Odrin Hallasser Vallant: Mirra Agran PLOTHOLES: 20 COACH RIDES: 13 MEETINGS IN COACHES: 3 OTHER MEETINGS: 1 INTERRUPTED MONOLOGUING: 21 "CLIFFHANGERS": 9 POINTLESS TAMRISSA NARRATION: 8 TEA DRINKING: 4 BLATANT MORALIZING: 14 BATH SCENES: 6 WILFUL MISUNDERSTANDINGS: 5 MIND CONTROL: 5 BADLY WRITTEN SEX SCENES: 1 REPETITIVE POV EVENTS:
Possible fixes: Stuff actually happened in this chapter to advance character arcs and relationships, yet somehow the feeling of unnecessary bloat is still present. I'd continue with the changes from Chapter 23: Leng posted:
From here:
Not too sure about running with Rion plotting Lorand's murder - I feel like that was a weird blip in Rion's characterization from Green - it could be interesting but it would significantly change Rion's character and he's the least awful one of them all.
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Sep 16, 2020 22:58
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Jumping straight to murder is pretty weird for Rion. But "she smiled at me, therefore she wants to be with me" is sadly realistic, for both him and Lorand. Especially with the deep swerve into chauvinism/chivalry that they are both taking. That's a breed of masculinity that too many Nice Guys fall for. Also, according to Google you're not supposed to mix peonies with bulbed perennials that might multiply and crowd out the roots.
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Sep 16, 2020 23:22
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wizzardstaff posted:Jumping straight to murder is pretty weird for Rion. But "she smiled at me, therefore she wants to be with me" is sadly realistic, for both him and Lorand. Especially with the deep swerve into chauvinism/chivalry that they are both taking. That's a breed of masculinity that too many Nice Guys fall for. This is a scenario where I imagine resting bitch face is actually a blessing! I had to practice this a lot when I lived in New York. Though it comes with its own set of curses as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1XGPvbWn0A
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Sep 19, 2020 13:35
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quote:CHAPTER TWENTY-EIGHT Or maybe it was actually Jovvi's offer that made the difference, which you're not even thinking about. quote:I looked over at Vallant Ro where he stood with the men, dressed exactly the way they were and almost indistinguishable from Lorand Coll and Clarion Mardimil. All three were tall and broad-shouldered and blond, As an Asian female, I'm pretty resigned to not seeing myself represented in most works of fiction, but I'm thinking even most white men would be complaining about the lack of diversity here. quote:but Vallant Ro wasn't really like them. He had no intentions of making the most of the opportunity he'd been given, and would be gone as soon as he was allowed to leave. That was what had made his offer to protect me so useless, but I hadn't had the heart to say so. Part of what makes the Vallant/Tamrissa drama so aggravating is that you always get BOTH sides of the internal monologue which removes all of the suspense and mystery. Instead, it just makes you want to throw the book and scream at these two idiots to just sit down and talk to each other like the mature adults that they aren't. quote:"They do look rather impressive, don't they?" Jovvi murmured from my right, amusement in her voice. "Lorand without those ill-fitting bags is even more attractive than usual, Rion looks positively handsome without one of his costumes, and Vallant looks more like the dashing sea captain than ever. This, but with three blond guys:  quote:Did you enjoy how concerned he was about you yesterday?" Wouldn't be a romance novel without a reference to "big hands". Oh wait, sorry, this was marketed as fantasy/action/adventure. Huh. quote:"It's Rion rather than Clarion now," Jovvi said with obvious approval. "I suggested the name change, but he was the one who embraced the idea wholeheartedly. It will hopefully take him out of the narrow confines of his previous life, and let him expand and grow as a person should. I take it you'd rather not talk about Vallant Ro." Beldara gets a disproportionate amount of hate, which is naturally her due since she's an ambitious woman defying gender roles. She don't need no man's help to do anything. quote:This time we were taken to another part of the city, the one that lies across the Magross bridge in what's considered Noble territory. Most of it looks just like any other part of Gan Garee, but the only people living in the lower-class housing are those who work in the shops and businesses based there. The members of the patrol guard make it their business to know all of them by sight, since anyone they don't know is summarily ejected from the area. And it isn't even possible to claim to be there just to shop. The price of everything is double to nonresidents, and residency has to be proven. Did we...did we just get an actual description of a location in Gan Garee city? *looks again* nope, it was deceptive and misleading. quote:Carriage and coach traffic was, of course, much heavier in that part of town. It would have been fractionally better if it hadn't been raining, but not enough to have made the trip any shorter. The very quiet trip, with Beldara and Rion lost in their individual thoughts, and Jovvi apparently as reluctant as I to break the silence. Logically we should all have been thinking about what lay ahead, but somehow I felt that that wasn't the case. Jovvi might have been considering the coming tests, but I was fairly certain the other two had different things on their minds.  says Jovvi's having group sex fantasies right now.quote:We finally turned off the main thoroughfare into the approach drive of two large buildings which stood fairly close together. A stone awning arched across the forty or so feet between them, providing a shelter for the side doors which opened opposite one another over there. Our coach pulled up to the building on the right, and the second coach, filled with the rest of those at my house, stopped to the left. We four were guided out and into the right hand building, then up five or six steps, with our driver leading the way. Ok, that's a pretty early start. Eltrina did warn them! quote:"Well, we might as well get on with it," Jovvi said, and I gave up watching the departing back of our driver to see that Beldara and Rion had already begun to walk toward their respective doors. "Let's wish each other good luck, even if we won't need it. We have skill and talent, which take the place of a good deal of luck." This is such lazy characterization of an antagonist. From what we've seen of Beldara's actual behavior, all she's indicated is supreme confidence in her own abilities. While she did talk down to Tamrissa (which - however patronizing - was coming from "good intentions" of letting Tamrissa know she's no pushover), Beldara's done nothing to indicate she's a sabotaging sort. Except since this is Jovvi speaking (and she can read minds), well, we have to take this statement at face value. quote:I nodded to show I already knew that, then parted from Jovvi to follow after Beldara. The woman who shared my aspect acted as if she were all alone in the building, but her pace was faster than your average uncaring stroll. She seemed to want to leave me far behind, but walking wasn't the way she'd be able to do that. I increased my own pace a little, and passed under the flame sign only a moment behind her. What? That's not the message Tamrissa got after she passed her initial test! quote:He took two paces back, and then a long rope of fire appeared in front of him. I say a rope, because that's what the section of fire most resembled. It burned as greedily as fire always does, but I could feel the way his talent held it firmly in the shape and state he wanted it in. When do you suppose we'll meet his colleagues Conclave, Assembly, Conference, Convention and Symposium? quote:He led the way up the narrow hall to the right, and at the end of it put each of us in a separate area that was rather small, lit by a glaringly bright lamp, and which contained a single chair. The chair was a crude wooden thing that promised to be very uncomfortable, but I'd seen much better chairs in the areas closer to the door we'd come in by. That had to be another way to convince us to do the best we could, along with the threat of holding back the gold most of us needed to pay for food with. They were determined to find out what we were really capable of, but I'd decided to be determined about something too. This is the lamest way of convincing people to do their best. quote:I sat down in the chair inside my little cubicle, but still had no trouble seeing the others through the transparent resin. Even the man in the cubicle opposite mine was behind resin, as the door to his cubicle wasn't lined up with my own. That had to be a precaution against someone losing control of the fire they'd summoned, which made a good deal of sense. Those who lose control also occasionally lose their heads, and I had no desire to need to defend myself. Annnd that's the game. The main plot as it relates to the competitions will not advance again until Chapter 39. Like every single time Green has had these characters run up against some challenge with their magic, she has to take a minimum of two chapters to deal with it for every aspect. quote:About an hour after that, Adept Forum came through with a placard announcing lunchtime. I let my flames die out and got painfully to my feet, wondering if my back would ever be the same. Four hours of sitting in that chair had almost crippled me, and trying to stretch out the kinks hurt even more. I glanced around to see that the others were also on their feet, but Beldara was looking at me rather than trying to twist her body back into proper shape. Her face wore a look of spiteful triumph, and I didn't have to wonder why. She was the one I'd followed directly along after, which apparently had convinced her that she was my superior. Well, if it made her happy, let her think it. Only time would tell both of us the truth. Spiteful triumph, really? Methinks you're reading way too much into Beldara's expression, which is probably just a smirk, if you were going to impart any attitude to it. quote:Our group had to wait until everyone else had left the room before we were free to go, but there were still plenty of empty tables where we could take our solitary meals. I'd hoped to be able to join Jovvi in either her area of mine, but the three aspects were being kept strictly separated. Most of our six stood or walked around their chosen table until servants appeared with trays of food and drink, but two of the men had collapsed into the more comfortable chairs as though they were exhausted. One of those two had only just managed a tentative coil before lunch was announced, and the other hadn't even gotten that far. This is such a fallacy. People who excel at what they do - the ones who are true masters of their field - LOVE teaching and talking about their craft. It's true that there are a lot of incompetent hacks teaching as well, but you can usually tell them apart pretty quickly. quote:So the position of Adept was one I had no interest in, for more reasons than simple prestige. I needed real power and standing to stay out of my father's reach, which at times stretched even to certain members of the nobility. That meant I couldn't afford to stay down near the bottom of the group, even if we didn't know what happened to everyone who showed strong ability. Not showing it would doom me as surely as anything the testing authority might do, since there was no doubt that marrying another man like Gimmis would break my mind. The first time Odrin Hallasser hurt me I would turn him to cinders, and then probably not even notice when they sent me to the Deep Caverns. Spoilers for the rest of the first series: none of this will ever matter. Storn Torgar is completely ineffectual and almost dresses up as a literal clown in Book 4 and Odrin Hallasser gets killed off by Lorand and Vallant in Book 5 quote:I took a long swallow of the tea to warm the chill from my insides, determined to keep any of that horror from happening. It was a shame that so few people knew those with more than ordinary ability, or fewer women would be savaged. No one tried to rob or attack a stranger, not when that stranger might be capable of anything, but those who were known were another story. If it was understood that even those supposedly known might show stronger ability under stress . . . Well, that was a dream. People knew what they knew, and facts weren't going to change their minds. A reminder that you spent two years in an abusive marriage and never did anything with your talent, even though you were a confirmed Middle and that would have been stronger than most of the population in Gan Garee judging by that tavern sequence. quote:It was quite some time before food was brought to my group, and predictably enough I was the third to be served. Beldara luxuriated in that fact, all but preening herself and laughing aloud. Such spoiled-child behavior really irritated me, and I couldn't wait until the session started again. Green only has one gear for her antagonists as well. It's like she can't conceive of a likeable antagonist. Maybe she doesn't understand the broader concept of an antagonist and thought it just means people who don't like the protagonists because they are "anti-protagonists". quote:Which didn't take long. When you're served last you have only a short time to eat, and I wasn't quite through when Adept Forum appeared to order us back to the room. I knew I should have anticipated that, so I was more annoyed with myself than with the testing authority when I reclaimed that awful chair in my cubicle. If I wanted to be free of harassment, I'd have to use ability to achieve it. Can you guys believe we're going to get like 10 chapters of this drivel? 10 chapters of watching the protagonists grumble about the awful chairs, the food and struggling to braid magical patterns using their control of elemental magic with the ultimate answer being "more power" and the determining factor of whether you can handle said additional power is completely up to the author. Thank goodness I'm interspersing this Let's Read with a re-read of Stormlight Archive in preparation for Rhythm of War. quote:Most of the afternoon had gone by while I fought with the three strands, and the woman and two men who had arrived last had already left. But Adept Forum hadn't come by to release us, so I started all over again with the three strands. Doing it a second time proved easier, and by then Beldara had tamed her three strands and had plaited them half way. She'd also sweated with the effort, but the heavy man who'd managed his plait along with my first sat cool and serene. He hadn't tried it a second time, only maintained his first effort, and maintaining is a good deal easier than doing. This will never matter either. quote:Adept Forum gathered us in the area near the doors again, then looked around and said, "You will all be here tomorrow morning at the same time, to practice the same exercise. For those of you who have been at it quite a while, let me remind you that this week is your last chance. If you haven't qualified by week's end, you never will." No other character will make any reference to "The Trials" again after this chapter. quote:The man who'd protested seemed about to cry, but he didn't say anything else. Adept Forum waited to be certain of that, and then he looked at me. None of this will matter either. quote:I stretched my back gingerly as I followed them, forcing away consideration of possible spiteful retaliatory actions in order to think about what was really more important. What we hadn't been told earlier was that these would be practice sessions, and that after this week there would be no more of them. Those who had passed the initial test months ago would have had all this time to practice for the Trials, but all we would have was this single week. If I'd thought the testing authority had any sense of decency and fairness, this latest fact would have quickly changed my mind. You literally just got told that if you can't pass these sessions quickly, you never will. This makes no sense whatever from any perspective but it's just one more of Green's arbitrary rules so her protagonists can progress without having to actually grow as characters. quote:There appeared to be less than twenty people left in the large building, but the others were all heading for the front doors rather than the side one I'd come in by, so I did the same. It would be nice if it had stopped raining, but it would be nicer yet if I could rid myself of the sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach. Adept Forum had said the people left in my session were those who would never qualify, and they'd obviously been trying for a good deal longer than a week. What if I turned out to be just like them, and couldn't qualify either? What would become of me then? Remember how Jovvi gave you an out? And if there's no time limit for how long you can sit in these sessions, so long as you have an independent source of income - like from a side hustle as a courtesan - you'd be fine to just keep rocking up, sitting there without trying too hard to pass and eating free food. And you already got your start time pushed to 9 AM which is a late start to the work day as far as I'm concerned. quote:I discovered I'd stopped in the middle of the floor, one hand to my middle to hold back the sickness, so I hurried on toward the doors. I needed very badly to be home, to help me come to grips with the stark truth: in less than a week and in one way or another, my future would be settled forever. Yawn. Summary: Day 4 Tamrissa drinks tea, hates on Beldara and plaits fire into a three-strand braid. Counts so far: NAMED ON-SCREEN CHARACTERS WHO WE'LL NEVER SEE AGAIN: 15 Mildon Coll, Phor Riven, Jeris Womal, Eldra Sappin, Fod, Lord Astrath, Torrin Ro, Vish "the Fish", Jamrin, Hark, Reshin, Fellar, Ennis, Vosin, Parli Hafford, Regensi, Weeks TOTALLY INDISTINCT ON-SCREEN LOCATIONS: 8 Rincammon, Haven Wraithside, Tamrissa's house in Gan Garee, Port Entril, testing facility in Gan Garee, Regensi's shop, Ginge's tavern, Magross bridge MEALS ON-SCREEN: 7 Day 1 (lunch, dinner), Day 2 (breakfast, lunch, dinner), Day 3 (breakfast, lunch, dinner), Day 4 (breakfast, lunch) EUPHEMISMS FOR BODY PARTS: 9 Male: <character name>'s body (x2), discomfort (x1), manhood (x1), desire (x2), renewed need (x1) Female: womanhood (x1), entrance of ultimate bliss (x1), desire (x1), incredible tunnel (x1) TERMS OF ENDEARMENT: 3 Male: love (x1), my fleeting love (x1) Female: sweet girl (x1) ANTAGONISTS: 9 General: Unnamed Chairman and the five Seated Highs in each aspect Lorand: Eskin Drowd Jovvi: Allestine and her henchmen Ark and Bar, Clarion: Hallina Mardimil, Eskin Drowd Tamrissa: Storn and Avrina Torgar, Beldara Lant, Odrin Hallasser Vallant: Mirra Agran PLOTHOLES: 21 COACH RIDES: 14 MEETINGS IN COACHES: 3 OTHER MEETINGS: 1 INTERRUPTED MONOLOGUING: 21 "CLIFFHANGERS": 10 POINTLESS TAMRISSA NARRATION: 8 TEA DRINKING: 5 BLATANT MORALIZING: 14 BATH SCENES: 6 WILFUL MISUNDERSTANDINGS: 5 MIND CONTROL: 5 BADLY WRITTEN SEX SCENES: 1 REPETITIVE POV EVENTS:
Possible fixes: Now is a good time to talk about how Green has messed up the stakes all round in her plotting of the magical challenges across the first two books before the big competition:
 I've already mentioned some changes that I made in the four and a half chapters that I rewrote at the beginning of this year when talking about Chapter 1 and Chapter 14. The biggest change I made was to the first test - I substituted the first part of the basic braiding challenge (forming a rope) under the supervision of an Adept. There was still a "pass or die" element, but instead of that being the default setting for everybody, it was some additional pressure that the Adept decided to apply to Lorand specifically. After that point, I skipped everything about learning more patterns in one paragraph and made the first level masteries the milestone reached after all the basic patterns are mastered. The second level masteries and individual time trials also got cut in favor of doing all those good things that High talents in service to the Empire are supposed to do for the benefit of all but that Green never shows us in the books. From that point on, progression in the magic becomes all about the Blending mechanic rather than advancing each individual's magical talent so it got a little harder to plot because it then becomes more about the relationships rather than the magic. The magic aspect is pretty straightforward and we'll dig into it once we get into Book 3. At the rate I'm posting (we've done 28 chapters in roughly 6 weeks, and there's another 16 chapters in Book 1, with 46 more in Book 2 and another 14 chapters in Book 3 before they learn to Blend), we should get there in...19 weeks or so (basically the end of January or early February next year).
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Sep 19, 2020 15:12
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"Braid stuff, then braid it better" has got to be the dullest possible application of magic. Especially when repeated five times over.quote:
Pretty sure this isn't intended to be characterization of Tamrissa and her marriage, it sounds more like an author-insert monologue on the Second Amendment.
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Sep 19, 2020 15:34
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Not being American, this didn't jump out at me but now that you've mentioned it, I can't read it any other way.
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Sep 20, 2020 00:11
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As an American it is my curse by birthright to be hyper-aware of 2A bullshit.  I may be a little too eager to read this series with Goodkind-level conservative moralizing (especially with regards to gender politics) but given Green's interviews I don't thinks that interpretation is too far off.
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Sep 20, 2020 02:38
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quote:CHAPTER TWENTY-NINE I can't help but think this is where Green falls over in trying to write from a male perspective. Why on earth would Rion think pursuing multiple women at once would have been far too much? As far as his POVs are concerned, he's trying to make up for lost time. quote:So Rion endured the silent carriage ride, accompanied the ladies into the building they were brought to, then went in the direction of the banner with the symbol of Air magic on it. The door beyond the banner led into an odd sort of room, large but separated into individual cubicles, all to the left and right of the area just inside the door. In that area stood two women and a man, and a moment after Rion joined them another woman, without the identification the rest of them wore, appeared from the left. "Now that our newest addition has arrived, you may all take your cubicles," the woman said, her tone and manner almost as haughty as that of Lady Eltrina, the testing authority representative. "Go and begin your practice, and I'll see to him individually." why did the other people have to wait for Rion at all?quote:The others nodded and obediently moved off toward the right, making Rion frown. He was the only newcomer, and all the others were ahead of him? The thought of that was an uncomfortable one, but he wasn't given time to consider the point. I feel like if we went through these books and tried to identify all the female characters who weren't described as "pretty" or some variation on that theme, we'd come up with maybe a handful. quote:"Just a moment," Rion said, stopping her before she might turn away. "I have one small matter I'd like to see to before we begin. This identification card which was given me has an error which must be corrected. My given name is Rion, not Clarion, so your records and the card have to be changed." All it took for Aminto to go from hostile to swooning was Rion requesting a name change to his identification. What?? quote:"The manipulation of air is too difficult to see, so we've provided these ribbons to make the exercises more visual," Aminto said as soon as Rion was settled, picking up two silk ribbons of different colors from a small table which held five ribbons. "What you'll do is surround them with columns— thin columns—of thickened air, and then you'll coil them about each other. But make sure the columns remain separate, otherwise the ribbons will show that they've merged." Why do the Air magic people need ribbons?! They are supposed to be High talents who can sense the air and what it's doing. quote:"In a moment," Rion said, suspecting he would have little trouble performing the trick. "Tell me first why these others seem to have failed at so simple a task. Haven't they been here for a while after having passed the initial test?" So if Rion is capable of logical thought, then he should be realizing at this point that this round of testing is pretty safe and therefore he might need to plot Lorand's murder after all. quote:When it was clear that Rion had nothing more to say, Aminto left him alone to practice. He thickened the air around the red and yellow ribbons Aminto had returned to the table, then lifted them up and began to twine them about each other. He'd done the same thing any number of times with blades of grass when he was younger, but he took his time "learning" how to do it. What he'd already learned was not to rush into anything, at least until he'd had a look around. Could it be that we're about to have a meaningful and interesting interaction between characters?? quote:"Congratulations on your progress," the man said wryly, glancing tiredly at Rion. "I'm Mem Follil, and if you're willing to share your secret, I'm willing to listen." Woooahhh he dropped the "Lord"! Are we supposed to take this as continuation of his character's earlier resolution post bath house to do his best to blend in? Or is this the beginning of his shedding of his noble identity? Either way, it's a good step for Rion and I'm really surprised Green's not hammering this into our faces as she usually would. quote:"But what do you mean by 'secret?' If you have more than a Middle's ability with magic, you should be able to do the same." This is why Rion is the most likeable - he decides to do things earlier and then he actually follows through on them. quote:"You can't mean you don't know?" Follil said with a short laugh that had no amusement in it. "You're an applicant, so your bank won't be permitted to give you a single copper. You'll have to beg funds from the testing authority like the rest of us, or else go hungry. Until you qualify to compete, that is, but you still have a long way to go. There's double the difference in handling four strands rather than three than there is between three strands and two. When it comes to five strands you can triple the difference from four, so you might as well sit down to lunch and recoup your strength." Even the minor characters can't behave consistently. This guy has figured out that the amount of power required to handle each additional strand but is insisting that there's some weird trick he doesn't know. Somebody good at algebra reduce the information we just got here into an equation. I would do it but my brain isn't firing on all cylinders this late at night. Anyone? quote:Follil pulled out a chair and took his own advice, but Rion hesitated. The man had sounded certain about what would happen at Rion's bank, but Follil was obviously not a member of Rion's class. Best would be to check on the matter personally, although a terrible suspicion had begun to grow in Rion's insides. Oh. Here's the hammer to the face we were missing earlier. quote:Outside it was still raining, so Rion used a shield made of air to keep himself dry while he jogged to the bank. He also tucked his identification inside his shirt in case Follil was partially right, but he might as well not have bothered. The office's manager came out to bow and scrape, but his roundabout apology came to the same thing a rude rebuff would have: the testing authority had cut him off from all his funds, and the suggestion of a loan was quite impossible. On the one hand, this is actually a sensible course of action for the government to do in terms of applying economic incentives. On the other hand, this seems like the kind of short sighted move that would cause black market activity to skyrocket. quote:Rion jogged back to the testing building, needing the effort to help cool his temper. Those people had turned him into a pauper, and the only way to change that was to compete and earn one of their bonuses. Rion intended to do just that, but the idea of having no choice in the matter threatened to make him furious. He wasn't a loser who needed to be forced to perform, so how dare they do that to him? Yeah, I don't understand the whole point of this either. We got an info dump about how to pass these tests from a minor character...who then proceeds to ask the protagonist to explain how to pass the tests. quote:Those questions were apparently too profound to be answered quickly, as Rion was called back to the practice room with the others before any explanations came to him. He was prepared to return to the cubicle and that abominable chair, but Aminto stopped him before he reached them. Did some Spirit magic user next door inadvertently give Aminto a magical lobotomy while Rion was asking for his identification to be changed and then again during lunch? The abrupt change in her behaviour from hostile to flustered to predatory is weird on so many levels. quote:She touched his arm again as though directing him into the new cubicle, but her palm slid over his biceps and triceps in a way that was more annoying than interesting. He hadn't invited her to touch him, so what right did she have to do it anyway? Such behavior was outrageous, and apparently it wasn't one of those things considered acceptable that Rion didn't know about. Aminto hadn't let the others see what she was doing, and once having done it she glided away to wherever she waited while they practiced. You have Air magic, why don't you put yourself behind one of your neato barriers like you did at the tavern again? I mean, she does as well so I guess technically she might be able to stop you but she'd sure get the message. quote:Rion had to deliberately calm himself as he entered the cubicle, but sitting in the new chair helped. It was padded to a certain degree and angled a bit rather than rigidly straight, and that made sitting in it a good deal less uncomfortable. Not actually comfortable, but definitely less uncomfortable. Ah well, he was there to practice, after all, not to nap, but maybe once he'd mastered four ribbons. . . . A reminder that these people are like 18 years and older. quote:He plaited three ribbons again just to warm up, then tried his hand with four. His first try turned into a disaster, and the four ribbons, clinging to one another, fell to the floor when he released them. Managing four columns of air was harder than managing three, a lot harder than he'd thought it would be. Maybe Follil was right about those increasing degrees of difficulty . . . Mem told you exactly how much more power you needed to take in at lunch! quote:But just what was his limit? Rion didn't know, and the truth of the matter was that the only way to find out was to press on until he was stopped. That was far from the best way of doing things, and sudden insight suggested that this was the problem which had stopped Follil and the others. Those two men who had achieved handling four and five strands respectively ... no wonder they'd only been trying to hold their own rather than working for a surer grip. Doing the second would have required more power, and they surely feared they were already pressing their limits. I hate everything about this mechanic because it's clearly the product of a fixed mindset. People are just born with whatever they happen to win (or not win) in some random genetics lottery and strength is the be all and end of all of everything in this magic system and these books. The entire first series is "strong people are better" and Green doesn't try to backpedal this until the second series and to be honest, it's too little too late. Every level up in the protagonists' magic is basically either: 1) take in more power or 2) learn one neat trick that solves the immediate problem. This is the worst, laziest writing with magic ever.  quote:Rion took a deep breath as he studied his hands, wishing he could scoff at those fears as he once would have. Now he was in the midst of understanding them only too well, as he had no desire to die after having only just begun to live. As little as it was, he nevertheless had something to lose—but if he refused to take the risk, would he win? They would most likely release him eventually to return to the life he'd left, which was exactly what he'd wanted. Basically in text confirmation that Jovvi and Vallant should literally be like "oh yes, three strands are so hard, oh, how terrible that I can't do this, oops, I guess you'll just have to let me go do my own thing now." I mean, yes, we should take this with a grain of salt since it's Rion reasoning things out here, but it's not like any of the Adepts are pushing the issue are they? quote:But could he do that now, after everything he'd experienced? It had been hard enough then, which meant that now it would be impossible. Look, the character flaws from other protagonists are catching! Here is the exact same reasoning used by Tamrissa in the last chapter, and Lorand in every chapter where he's done anything with his talent, popping up in Rion's POV. This is why all the characters could basically be condensed into a single character or one female and one male protagonist and you'd hardly miss anything. quote:Turning his attention to the ribbons again, Rion opened himself to enough more power to handle four separate columns of air. That brought him the hint of a tingle he'd never felt before, but the tingle faded quickly and didn't return so he wasn't distracted. Handling four columns and keeping them separate took concentration, but that too became easier with practice. Not easy, at least not at first, but certainly easier every time he did it from scratch. I'm feeling sorry for the coach drivers here. They're going to be doing multiple drop offs and pick ups all day tomorrow. quote:She turned left and walked away from them then, but not before showing Rion the gleam in her eyes at mention of the next day. She apparently looked forward to something that would never happen if he had any say in the matter, but there was no need to mention that. He would also save correcting her use of "dom" rather than "lord" to him, specifically if she tried to press him. Some men might accept that sort of treatment, but Rion had no intentions of being one of them. You omitted your title when introducing yourself to Mem earlier so why are you getting all hung up on this now? And shouldn't you be thanking your lucky stars? She threatened to drag you off to dinner earlier! quote:Follil and the women glared at him before leaving the room with noses in the air, and that amused Rion as he followed. He had quite a lot of practice at being snubbed or ignored, and by people who were much better at it than these three fools. And it seemed to have stopped raining, which was delightful news. They would be able to await their coaches out front in the fresh air, rather than crowded together inside by the side door. Book Five spoilers Naran's "appointment" is to use her Sight magic to stalk Rion and deliberately run into him here, which kicks off their actual relationship, otherwise Rion would have just ended up pursuing Jovvi or Tamrissa and messing up Green's perfect outline, probably. quote:"Wait," Rion said as she began to leave. "Where can I find you when the supper becomes possible? At the tavern?" It is actually really weird for Naran to flee into the Air magic building. quote:The question was so absorbing that the ladies found him instead of him finding them. Their coach was just behind the one now being boarded, so when it pulled up he helped them inside Even Beldara? quote:and climbed in himself. All three of them looked just as tired as he felt, and when the carriage began to move, Tamrissa sighed deeply. This is...not funny. Sorry Green, try harder. quote:but noticed that Beldara was back to ignoring the world. This time the red-haired woman's silence seemed more sullen and seething than previously, but Rion was too uninterested to wonder why. He had much better things to think about, like Naran Whist and when he would be able to see her again. He'd have to get to those competitions as quickly as possible, and then he'd have to win. . . . Summary: Day 4 Counts so far: NAMED ON-SCREEN CHARACTERS WHO WE'LL NEVER SEE AGAIN: 17 Mildon Coll, Phor Riven, Jeris Womal, Eldra Sappin, Fod, Lord Astrath, Torrin Ro, Vish "the Fish", Jamrin, Hark, Reshin, Fellar, Ennis, Vosin, Parli Hafford, Regensi, Weeks, Adept Aminto, Mem Follil TOTALLY INDISTINCT ON-SCREEN LOCATIONS: 8 Rincammon, Haven Wraithside, Tamrissa's house in Gan Garee, Port Entril, testing facility in Gan Garee, Regensi's shop, Ginge's tavern, Magross bridge MEALS ON-SCREEN: 7 Day 1 (lunch, dinner), Day 2 (breakfast, lunch, dinner), Day 3 (breakfast, lunch, dinner), Day 4 (breakfast, lunch) EUPHEMISMS FOR BODY PARTS: 9 Male: <character name>'s body (x2), discomfort (x1), manhood (x1), desire (x2), renewed need (x1) Female: womanhood (x1), entrance of ultimate bliss (x1), desire (x1), incredible tunnel (x1) TERMS OF ENDEARMENT: 3 Male: love (x1), my fleeting love (x1) Female: sweet girl (x1) ANTAGONISTS: 9 General: Unnamed Chairman and the five Seated Highs in each aspect Lorand: Eskin Drowd Jovvi: Allestine and her henchmen Ark and Bar, Clarion: Hallina Mardimil, Eskin Drowd Tamrissa: Storn and Avrina Torgar, Beldara Lant, Odrin Hallasser Vallant: Mirra Agran PLOTHOLES: 21 COACH RIDES: 16 (yeah I know the morning was the same coach ride we saw in Tamrissa's chapter but since we have to read about it multiple times, I'm counting it again) MEETINGS IN COACHES: 3 OTHER MEETINGS: 1 INTERRUPTED MONOLOGUING: 22 "CLIFFHANGERS": 10 POINTLESS TAMRISSA NARRATION: 8 TEA DRINKING: 6 BLATANT MORALIZING: 14 BATH SCENES: 6 WILFUL MISUNDERSTANDINGS: 5 MIND CONTROL: 5 BADLY WRITTEN SEX SCENES: 1 REPETITIVE POV EVENTS:
Possible fixes: Same points as the previous chapter, and there wolf already covered how to work Naran into the group previously. I feel like this is the novel equivalent to Big Brother and other reality TV shows - there's so much manufactured drama and boring daily stuff that takes up all the page count instead of Green actually exploring the world and the main storyline. WHY?!?!?! Edit: oops, messed up a count and formatting a quote. Leng fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Sep 20, 2020 |
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Sep 20, 2020 13:37
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quote:There's double the difference in handling four strands rather than three than there is between three strands and two. When it comes to five strands you can triple the difference from four... This is certainly more thought than Green put into it, but....  Start with a variable for each prize amount. If you master 2 strands you get A silver, 3 gets you B, and so on. The differences in the quote above can be written as code:code:code:code:code:Now the real trick is to come up with four more ways that minor characters can explain the pay structure to the other protagonists as word problems, each one phrased differently but arriving at the same result. 
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Sep 20, 2020 15:40
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Algebra aside, these chapters about opening up to the power really get under my skin, and it's not just the return to lazy repetition. Again, maybe I'm reading more into Green's politics than I should but I don't think she's being particularly subtle. A secondary theme in the series besides parents can really screw up their children is success comes to those who deserve it. But we are given two different ways of "deserving it". In text, the instructor says that people who don't push themselves and take charge of their lives are losers. We might read this as characterization of that particular instructor if the sentiment were not immediately accepted by Rion and repeated by other protagonists throughout the book. In practice though, we see that "deserving it" is a matter of opening yourself up to your potential to channel more magical power. This potential is inborn and predefined; there's nothing you can do to change it. You just push yourself as far as you dare, and you either succeed or you burn out. And if that's not a metaphor for right-wing politics of personal responsibility then I don't know what is. Everyone is encouraged to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, and if they can't then they're losers who didn't apply themselves hard enough. Green is a cheerleader for this system because it lets people with natural advantages shine. It grosses me out much more now than it ever did when I was reading these as a teen.
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Sep 20, 2020 15:42
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wizzardstaff posted:Plugging that in to what we know about the final amount: You know what, until you typed that out, I did not see that the whole exchange could have plausibly been about how much silver they would be winning as a result for passing each test. Just gonna reread that bit again: quote:"You're an applicant, so your bank won't be permitted to give you a single copper. You'll have to beg funds from the testing authority like the rest of us, or else go hungry. Until you qualify to compete, that is, but you still have a long way to go. There's double the difference in handling four strands rather than three than there is between three strands and two. When it comes to five strands you can triple the difference from four, so you might as well sit down to lunch and recoup your strength." I interpreted this bit as five strands requiring 9X + A amounts of power to handle comfortably, rather than the additional silver they would be winning for qualifying. I had to check ahead in my notes to confirm when they earn more silver - and it's Chapter 40 spoilers 1 silver for each first level mastery and 2 silver for every second level mastery. Green's editor sucks. How did something this ambiguous get left in the published version? We'll avoid the larger question of how did something this badly written get published.  wizzardstaff posted:Algebra aside, these chapters about opening up to the power really get under my skin, and it's not just the return to lazy repetition. Again, maybe I'm reading more into Green's politics than I should but I don't think she's being particularly subtle. My knowledge of American politics was close to non-existent until the lead up to the 2016 election which I figured I should probably care about even if I was no longer living in the US, so I never would have picked up on this growing up. This explains so much about Green's characterization. That said, what remains unexplained is how she sold this many books because there's a whole lack of natural advantage here! 
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Sep 20, 2020 17:07
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Actually I think you're right, the full passage does read more like it's describing magic effort instead of prize money. I must have been conflating that with the escalating rewards that get brought up later. But the math still works!
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Sep 20, 2020 18:01
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I can see money as a motivation to ensure everyone gives their best effort, but uncomfortable chairs? What a bizarre system. The money thing seems absurdly easy to circumvent anyway, at least for city dwellers, since apparently it's common knowledge. Just withdraw some from the bank before testing starts. You might get caught out by the sliding-payment-for-not-school-uniforms trick, but that only works if you actually have the money on you at the time, not hidden it somewhere in your lodgings, or given it to a friend or relative to keep.
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Sep 20, 2020 19:31
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wizzardstaff posted:And if that's not a metaphor for right-wing politics of personal responsibility then I don't know what is. Everyone is encouraged to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, and if they can't then they're losers who didn't apply themselves hard enough. Green is a cheerleader for this system because it lets people with natural advantages shine. It grosses me out much more now than it ever did when I was reading these as a teen. Same, but I didn't have the nose for Randian bullshit as a teen that I do now. What's that you say? Society is run by a bunch of entrenched elites who use government bureaucracy to weaken and dispose of the truly powerful. And they're all about endless unnecessary wars, and also academics are useless do nothing snobs. And the ideal family unit is a polycul, except a strictly hetero one where the men are all manly men and the women are all strong and determined, but still appropriately feminine because gotten stick to that strict gender binary. If this weren't as old as it was, I'd assume it was written by one of those women from the Less Wrong circles who acknowledge that the men around are exclusionary, prejudice, and abusive trash, but still think feminism is dumb.
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Sep 21, 2020 00:35
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wizzardstaff posted:As an American it is my curse by birthright to be hyper-aware of 2A bullshit. Nah, that's totally fair. Green is a deeply and proudly Traditional Southerner, and that carries some politics with it.
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Sep 21, 2020 07:07
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quote:CHAPTER THIRTY Because the Highest Aspect forbid that anybody does anything better than the perfect Tamrissa. quote:"Difficult in more ways than one," Jovvi replied, rubbing her back with one hand as she walked in to find the bath house empty—as she'd known it would be. "That first chair was impossible, and the second one was almost as bad. They generated fields of pitching emotions for us, and we had to balance tiny spheres in the field. You have to use both strength and finesse to balance the emotional field, and once you get it settled with two spheres, they add a third. It goes all the way up to five spheres, with each balance-point different, but I don't know what happens after that." Ok guys I think I figured it out. They've got these chairs, see:  quote:"After that, I think, are the competitions," Tamrissa said slowly, also slowing in the midst of undressing. "Jovvi ... I kept my progress down to a minimum at first because of what we discussed, you know, not knowing what happened to all those people who passed the test. I still don't know if I did the right thing by passing so many of the others, but we were told that this is the last week of sessions. Anyone who doesn't qualify by week's end won't have another chance to do it." Exactly! quote:"Would it?" Jovvi asked, finally able to discuss the thoughts she'd had on the subject. "It occurred to me that I've never met anyone who'd been through testing for High, and didn't even know someone who had. The only Middles I've ever met weren't strong enough to qualify for testing, so they don't count. Have you ever met a former applicant, or know someone who met one?" "I have no idea how to make my characters behave like they're three dimensional people or to foreshadow the things that are going on in the background so I'm just going to make up arbitrary crap like this to keep the plot on track, though you'd never know it since we're thirty chapters into Book 1 and barely anything has happened." quote:Tamrissa silently nodded her reluctant agreement with that, and then they finished undressing in a matching silence. Jovvi led the way into the water, submerged completely to rid herself of the leavings of sweat, then headed for a corner and a headrest where she might soak a little. Oh, so now your unconfirmed  theory is now fact? You've both seen people in your sessions who have been there for ages and haven't been thrown out.quote:"Vallant Ro," Tamrissa grudged after a moment's hesitation, her voice low and her gaze on the warm, rippling water around them. "He's never wanted to be here, and made that perfectly plain right from the beginning. I . . . mean to apologize for calling him a quitter and a coward, but I'm afraid that's just what he is. Getting back to the marvelous life he left is all that concerns him." Tamrissa just hating someone because they actually have a life that they enjoy as opposed to exercising some empathy. quote:"No wonder he was so convinced you hate him," Jovvi murmured, uncertain whether Tamrissa heard her. The girl's misery was so strong that Jovvi could feel it without the least effort, including the other emotions mixed in. That faint jealousy tinged with bitterness, for instance. ... It was obviously aimed at the fact that Vallant Ro did have a life he wanted to go back to, the sort of "marvelous" life that Tamrissa had never had herself. It's a terrible thing to have to admit that your parents care nothing about you, and tends to make you believe that everyone else is just the same. If we were seeing Tamrissa through anybody else's eyes instead of the POVs we do have, she would not be likeable, at all. quote:"And then there's Eskin Drowd and Beldara Lant," Tamrissa said after taking a deep breath. "Beldara wants to succeed with every fiber of her being, but I don't think she's had much practice in delicate manipulation. She probably put on lavish shows for her townful of admirers, throwing giant gouts of flame all around. If you never have to keep your doings small and inconspicuous, you can easily miss the possibility that you might someday need to." What did you ever do that required delicate manipulation? Reminder that Tamrissa passed her first test by reforging a bar of metal but spent two years in an abusive marriage to a sadist and never used her talent in self defence, at all. Fire is possibly the least versatile element in this universe - Tamrissa can reheat her own food and water, dry things, warm herself, produce light, sense body heat and Book 3 spoilers set someone's blood 'aflame' when having sex without being conscious of doing so. quote:"And Drowd almost certainly lacks the self-confidence needed to stretch himself," Jovvi agreed. "If he didn't have rather strong feelings of inferiority, he would hardly spend so much time telling people how important he is—and how inferior they are. Or trying to make trouble among those around him. I'll bet anything you care to name that he didn't do at all well." We are literally reading about people who wake up, eat breakfast, go braid things magically, eat lunch, do more magic braiding, take a bath, have a nap, eat dinner, repeat. quote:Jovvi agreed with the idea of a nap, so she reached for her own jar of soap and finished washing. Once they were out of the bath and toweled off, Tamrissa used her talent to dry most of the residual dampness from the two of them. Delicate manipulation, she'd called it, and delicate it was. The flames had been almost invisible, but had done an efficient job. They all seemed to be in better condition than they'd been after the test, but that had to be because they'd expended all their strength during the test in order to stay alive. ...so Tamrissa spent 2 years grinding her Level 3 "Delicate manipulation" Fire spell because she doesn't know how to use a towel to dry herself completely? I'm having a really hard time trying to make sense of this one. Maybe Green just doesn't know how to use towels. quote:They left the bath house together carrying their well-worn session outfits, but as soon as they reached the sitting area just inside the main house Tamrissa uttered a low squeak and then disappeared at a run. The poor thing was obviously embarrassed over being in nothing but a wrap, because all the men were in the sitting area, clearly waiting for their turn in the bath house. Or maybe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyGOy1SQbXc quote:Rion smiled and nodded as he passed her, but Pagin Holter just nodded. There was a . . . coldness inside the small man that hadn't been there before, but before Jovvi could wonder about it she saw Lorand. Green needs to be clearer about when Jovvi is using her talent and when she isn't. I can't tell whether she's "forcing patience on herself" because she's using her magic, or whether she's just being a normal human about it. quote:Jovvi considered letting him sleep, but the man was sprawled in a chair that was more decorative than comfortable and would certainly wake up feeling as if he'd gone through torture. A nice warm bath would do a lot more for him, so she walked over and put a hand to his shoulder. It actually took two shakes before he woke, and then he looked at her blurrily. Hello echo chamber! It just takes one person to confirm your theory and then you're off to the races!quote:He rose to kiss her hand, then took his clean clothing and left the sitting area. Jovvi very much enjoyed the way he said thank you, and smiled all the way back to her room. If Lorand hadn't been there, Vallant would have made a substitute almost as good. Jovvi decided she'd have to find a way to get Tamrissa and Vallant much closer together. The poor girl could use a little pleasure in her life, and the poor man felt so awful thinking he was hated. But Tamrissa didn't hate him, and all Jovvi had to do was let them both know that. . . . Hahahahahaha Jovvi thinks she's dealing with two adults who can communicate with each other in a mature fashion. Summary: Day 4 Everybody (except Beldara) heads straight to the bath house after an exhausting day of magical braiding, though thanks to Tamrissa declaring mixed bathing off limits, we're spared any further awkward bath scenes with the full cast. Jovvi goes head first into territory with early converts Tamrissa and Vallant.Counts so far: NAMED ON-SCREEN CHARACTERS WHO WE'LL NEVER SEE AGAIN: 17 Mildon Coll, Phor Riven, Jeris Womal, Eldra Sappin, Fod, Lord Astrath, Torrin Ro, Vish "the Fish", Jamrin, Hark, Reshin, Fellar, Ennis, Vosin, Parli Hafford, Regensi, Weeks, Adept Aminto, Mem Follil TOTALLY INDISTINCT ON-SCREEN LOCATIONS: 8 Rincammon, Haven Wraithside, Tamrissa's house in Gan Garee, Port Entril, testing facility in Gan Garee, Regensi's shop, Ginge's tavern, Magross bridge MEALS ON-SCREEN: 7 Day 1 (lunch, dinner), Day 2 (breakfast, lunch, dinner), Day 3 (breakfast, lunch, dinner), Day 4 (breakfast, lunch) EUPHEMISMS FOR BODY PARTS: 9 Male: <character name>'s body (x2), discomfort (x1), manhood (x1), desire (x2), renewed need (x1) Female: womanhood (x1), entrance of ultimate bliss (x1), desire (x1), incredible tunnel (x1) TERMS OF ENDEARMENT: 3 Male: love (x1), my fleeting love (x1) Female: sweet girl (x1) ANTAGONISTS: 9 General: Unnamed Chairman and the five Seated Highs in each aspect Lorand: Eskin Drowd Jovvi: Allestine and her henchmen Ark and Bar, Clarion: Hallina Mardimil, Eskin Drowd Tamrissa: Storn and Avrina Torgar, Beldara Lant, Odrin Hallasser Vallant: Mirra Agran PLOTHOLES: 21 COACH RIDES: 16 MEETINGS IN COACHES: 3 OTHER MEETINGS: 2 INTERRUPTED MONOLOGUING: 22 "CLIFFHANGERS": 10 POINTLESS TAMRISSA NARRATION: 8 TEA DRINKING: 6 BLATANT MORALIZING: 14 BATH SCENES: 7 WILFUL MISUNDERSTANDINGS: 5 MIND CONTROL: 5 BADLY WRITTEN SEX SCENES: 1 REPETITIVE POV EVENTS:
Possible fixes: This is the official beginning of Green's conspiracy plot line and it's lame. Jovvi has no real facts to base her theory on - though with wizzardstaff's recent commentaries I'm not...entirely surprised by this. Spoilers for the rest of the first series Jovvi happens to be right - because Green wanted her to be right since she's not able to write real characters who are observant or have an uncanny sense of intuition. It's like Green's forgotten that most stories rely on conflict to drive the plot. If we wanted to keep this conspiracy angle and not change too much, we should see the following:
And after 30 chapters of reflection, I think it would be good to swap the general perceptions of Beldara and Tamrissa:
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Sep 21, 2020 14:03
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I like how Jovvi is the only one not doing the strand weaving thing, but we only get to hear about it second hand. It's like Green deliberately didn't want to have to write something different. I don't think you should do that re-characterization with Tamrissa and Beldara, or you should but soften it a little bit. Like I think it's a good idea to have Beldara be more likable if only because having a positive character who isn't going to end up in the policul is a good idea. But don't make Tamrissa rage filled and homicidal, just highly defensive and erratic. Maybe her parents/husband was adamant about her not using her powers for anything, even lighting candles, because that's what servants were for. That makes Tamrissa 1. get really good at fine detail usage so he never found out, and 2. terrified and then empowered by bigger usage in a way that's really dangerous. Her arc is then about control, both of her powers and her emotions. You can have the rest of the group kind of split over who to bond with, with the people who value group cohesion favoring Beldara, and the people valuing raw power favoring Tamrissa.
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Sep 21, 2020 21:20
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there wolf posted:I like how Jovvi is the only one not doing the strand weaving thing, but we only get to hear about it second hand. It's like Green deliberately didn't want to have to write something different. Agreed - I wanted to find out more about how exactly they're generating pitching (mini) fields of emotion, like how does that even work? It's way more interesting than the braiding going on with the rest of the cast but nah, who needs to see actual interesting stuff?! there wolf posted:I don't think you should do that re-characterization with Tamrissa and Beldara, or you should but soften it a little bit. Like I think it's a good idea to have Beldara be more likable if only because having a positive character who isn't going to end up in the policul is a good idea. But don't make Tamrissa rage filled and homicidal, just highly defensive and erratic. Maybe her parents/husband was adamant about her not using her powers for anything, even lighting candles, because that's what servants were for. That makes Tamrissa 1. get really good at fine detail usage so he never found out, and 2. terrified and then empowered by bigger usage in a way that's really dangerous. Her arc is then about control, both of her powers and her emotions. Yeah I think you're right about pulling it back. Cutting out all of the early Tamrissa POVs will help a lot. I'm not sure Green realizes just how bad the first two Tamrissa chapters are. It'd take a really good writer to somehow make a rage filled and homicidal character turn into someone you cheer for. All I want to do is produce a first draft that's better than this mess Green left (not a high bar, but we all gotta start somewhere). What's going to be interesting to figure out is how Spirit magic is going to play into all of this. Stephanie Meyer leaned on Edward Cullen's mind reading powers way too much because he had no limitations other than Bella, and it made everything stupid! And in Green's world, ALL Spirit magic users (at least the Highs anyway) can basically read minds at will, so that creates a headache for plotting. But it's just one of the many things about the magic system that needs reworking. By the time we finish the first series, I hope to have figured out most of the fixes. Books 1-3 don't have much magic use really so we haven't really gotten into it yet.
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Sep 22, 2020 23:58
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quote:CHAPTER THIRTY-ONE Reminder that Vallant's talent is WATER MAGIC which apparently involves being able to summon water from CLOUDS and any other bodies of water through invisible wormholes/portals. Why the hell does he even need to go to the bath house? If I were dead tired I would head on up to my room and summon myself the clean bath water from the bath house, hold it in a suspended globe of water in the middle of my room while I bathe and then return it all through the same magical wormholes nobody else can see. Technically if the water gets pulled from the bottom of the bath, all anyone in the bath house would wonder is why the water levels in the bath keep randomly changing. quote:Walking into the bath house showed the other men already in the water, but there wasn't much in the way of conversation going on. Coll and Mardimil were closest to the entrance steps, while Holter and Drowd had retreated to the two farther corners of the bath. Both of them seemed to be taking pains to show that they had no interest in socializing, something Vallant already knew about Holter. Ok, I guess there's not enough space in your room if you want to swim. quote:"Glad to see you made it, Ro," Coll said quietly after Vallant wiped the water from his eyes. "When I realized you were missing, I also realized you might have fallen asleep. I'd just decided to cut my bath short and go back when you walked in." I...what the hell? Who can parse this garble of a sentence: "an admission of pleasure-murder along with the intention to repeat the act with Coll as the victim" An admission of being a person who takes pleasure in murdering other people with the intention to murder Coll? An admission of being a joy kill with the intention of killing Coll's happiness? An admission of being a murderer who admits to planning on pleasuring Coll? quote:"So that is your problem," Mardimil said gently to Coll, putting a hand to his shoulder. "I could feel that in some of the people around me, the fear of opening themselves to enough power to do the exercise properly. I hesitated myself at first, but then I realized I had very little to lose if I lost control of whatever power I drew in. I'm all through with being pitiful and useless, and I'd rather be dead than fail to earn myself a place in this world." In Chapter 16, we worked out that roughly 1200 people are sent for testing each year, with a 2 in 3 chance of dying in the attempt, 1 in 6 chance at passing and 1 in 6 chance at being told sorry, it was a pointless test just go home and forget all this happened. That means if they were playing ball, there's only 200 confirmed Highs who survive and get sent through these sessions, and 200 confirmed Middles who are sent packing. At each of the sessions so far, we've only seen a handful or so of people in each aspect. This is also the first time we'll hear about the two alternate Seateds and it'll never become relevant. quote:"Apparently the ladies have considered that point as well," Vallant said, wishing more than ever that he might sit down. "I was told that they're aware of the danger ahead, but movin' in that direction anyway will buy them the chance to think of a way around the thin ice. They feel that if they don't keep movin', they're likely to fall through the ice sooner rather than later." The spreads. this toxic masculinity. Also, what is up with having ladies in air quotes? I'm not sure Green realizes this reads like Lorand is particularly upset about Jovvi's choice of career and has for whatever reason lumped Tamrissa in accordingly.quote:It should have been comforting to Vallant to know that he wasn't the only one who had a problem with the sessions, but in that particular situation it was more depressing. His own problem had forced him to go forward, while Coll's could end up costing the man his life. Vallant sat down right where he was, needing the feel of warmly soothing water on his exhausted body. Well hey now, that's a problem and a half for Lorand, isn't it? quote:Coll nodded his agreement, then said, "What about Holter? He's a decent-enough sort, and maybe he can make use of the warning." Hearing the main characters complain about how tired they are after using magic is going to be a thing across all eight books. I'm not doing a count of these because it's so prevalent you can just assume the counter is ticking up at least once every two chapters. quote:"Managing four buys you two extra hours, but I've decided against taking them," Mardimil said, remaining seated. "I noticed that those who take them seem to be stuck in place, and that's the last thing I want happening. With the bank refusing to release any of my funds—thanks to our friends of the testing authority—I need to get to the competitions and do some winning." This is why I like Rion so much better than Vallant. I realize we're supposed to be feeling sorry for him dealing with his extreme claustrophobia but it's a weird unresearched quirk that pops up whenever Green feels like Vallant would otherwise be too competent and be doing stuff instead of progressing through things at roughly the same pace as everybody else in the group and I HATE IT. quote:Like the sudden worry he felt over Tamrissa Domon. She was stuck in the middle of that mess with them, and even her father wasn't likely to be able to get her out of it again. He'd promised to take care of her and not let anyone hurt her ever again, but how he would keep that promise in their current situation was something he had no idea about. Between that and his problem with closed-in spaces, he'd be lucky to keep himself in one piece and sane. By rights she should have laughed in his face when he spoke about protecting her, instead of gently dismissing the boast with polite thanks. . . . This is a weird image to use for a sailor, who spends most of his life on the ocean and has probably never been far enough inland to see a dry streambed. quote:Had he gotten so used to moaning and complaining that it was making him forget how to be a man? He'd had to fight twice as hard for a captaincy of one of his daddy's ships, simply because he was his daddy's son. He'd had to prove beyond all possible doubt that he deserved the job, since he and his daddy wanted no one to think that anyone could hold a position with their family's firm without earning it. And the ragging he'd had to put up with before he did get a ship of his own. . . . Actually interesting back story that somehow doesn't influence any of Vallant's actions as a character. quote:So what was it that was now making him give up on all fronts without even a token fight? As soon as he saved his life by passing that test, he should have admitted to himself that going home again would, be impossible. He was neither stupid nor innocent, and had known—without admitting it!—even before he left that he would never see Port Entril again. And the way he'd been behaving with Tamrissa . . . He'd never met a woman who drew him so strongly, so what did he do about it? He apologized for living and stayed out of her way. Obligatory because this is some controlling creepy rear end in a top hat behavior that Tamrissa "better get used to". At this point trying to pick out the differences between Odrin and Vallant is like splitting hairs, yet Jovvi's warning Tamrisa away from the former and trying to set her up with the latter. I know Green's going for the enemies to lovers trope here, but other than being told in each character's internal monologues that they're obsessing over each other, there's no indication of chemistry in their behavior or actions whenever they're in a scene together. The Valissa ship has been grounded from the beginning.Summary: Day 4 Everybody (except Beldara) heads straight to the bath house after an exhausting day of magical braiding, though thanks to Tamrissa declaring mixed bathing off limits, we're spared any further awkward bath scenes with the full cast. Jovvi goes head first into territory with early converts Tamrissa and Vallant, who brings Rion and Lorand for the ride. Eskin and Pagin get left out because Counts so far: NAMED ON-SCREEN CHARACTERS WHO WE'LL NEVER SEE AGAIN: 17 Mildon Coll, Phor Riven, Jeris Womal, Eldra Sappin, Fod, Lord Astrath, Torrin Ro, Vish "the Fish", Jamrin, Hark, Reshin, Fellar, Ennis, Vosin, Parli Hafford, Regensi, Weeks, Adept Aminto, Mem Follil TOTALLY INDISTINCT ON-SCREEN LOCATIONS: 8 Rincammon, Haven Wraithside, Tamrissa's house in Gan Garee, Port Entril, testing facility in Gan Garee, Regensi's shop, Ginge's tavern, Magross bridge MEALS ON-SCREEN: 7 Day 1 (lunch, dinner), Day 2 (breakfast, lunch, dinner), Day 3 (breakfast, lunch, dinner), Day 4 (breakfast, lunch) EUPHEMISMS FOR BODY PARTS: 9 Male: <character name>'s body (x2), discomfort (x1), manhood (x1), desire (x2), renewed need (x1) Female: womanhood (x1), entrance of ultimate bliss (x1), desire (x1), incredible tunnel (x1) TERMS OF ENDEARMENT: 3 Male: love (x1), my fleeting love (x1) Female: sweet girl (x1) ANTAGONISTS: 9 General: Unnamed Chairman and the five Seated Highs in each aspect Lorand: Eskin Drowd Jovvi: Allestine and her henchmen Ark and Bar, Clarion: Hallina Mardimil, Eskin Drowd Tamrissa: Storn and Avrina Torgar, Beldara Lant, Odrin Hallasser Vallant: Mirra Agran PLOTHOLES: 21 COACH RIDES: 16 MEETINGS IN COACHES: 3 OTHER MEETINGS: 2 INTERRUPTED MONOLOGUING: 22 "CLIFFHANGERS": 10 POINTLESS TAMRISSA NARRATION: 8 TEA DRINKING: 6 BLATANT MORALIZING: 14 BATH SCENES: 8 WILFUL MISUNDERSTANDINGS: 5 MIND CONTROL: 5 BADLY WRITTEN SEX SCENES: 1 REPETITIVE POV EVENTS:
Possible fixes: We've covered no new ground at all. This whole scene could have been covered by the last chapter if Vallant had just added the statement "I'll let the others know" in his parting line to Jovvi last chapter.
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Sep 23, 2020 00:55
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quote:CHAPTER THIRTY-TWO "Something"? Like...a nightmare? Or just a vague nebulous feeling of "fear"? A little girl who magically burned herself out is a horrific image but somehow there's just nothing here in the scene to evoke that horror. I normally hate dream sequences but here is a perfectly good place to put dream sequence to explore all of Lorand's issues with burnout and Jovvi and his chauvanistic toxic masculinity, annnnnd we don't get any of that because saying that "something woke him up" and that "it was fear" is far easier. quote:Lorand got to his feet quickly, but the surge of nausea quieted down to the point where he could control it. All day today he kept seeing himself like that, unliving rather than dead, no one on hand to ease him by ending it completely. It was stupid to think even for a moment that no one would see to him if he did burn himself out, but part of him insisted that he wasn't "home." At "home" his father would have taken care of the matter even after the words they'd had, but he'd never be able to go "home" again. What? Lorand's afraid of existing for the rest of his life as a drooling vegetable (who wouldn't be cognizant of anything), as opposed to the fact that turning himself into vegetable would basically mean ending his own life? quote:Lorand sighed and began to dress, wondering just how much had to happen before he actually got it through his head that he would never, under any conceivable circumstance, return to the place he'd once considered home. Intellectually he knew all about it, but emotionally he was a child crying in the woods, frightened at being lost and screaming for his parents to come and find him. His mind knew well enough that he would have to find his own way out of the woods, but those child-level emotions. . . . You couldn't wait to leave Widdertown and you haven't spent any time thinking of anyone or anything from your hometown fondly. I don't buy this sudden bout of homesickness. quote:Being alone with his thoughts was just making things worse, so he wandered downstairs to see if his luck had changed and Jovvi was also up and around. He'd promised to tell her about the problem he was having, but even more than that he wanted to discuss the idea of marriage. She seemed to think there was nothing wrong with the life she'd been leading, and he had to make her see the truth. As much as he wanted to take her in his arms, he couldn't get over the feeling that it was wrong. You proposed and she said no, including her reasons why. Just drop it! quote:At first the house seemed deserted, but then Tamrissa and her companion Warla came out of the library. They seemed to be discussing something about the house, which Warla must have been in charge of. Lorand had caught glimpses of Warla during the last couple of days, but the girl had always been hurrying to or from somewhere, or in the midst of speaking to the servants.' Lorand was about to leave them to the privacy they probably wanted, but Tamrissa saw him and smiled. In the alternate timeline where Jovvi hires Lorand and Hat after they save her residence from being torn apart, Lorand earns extra coin by running his own laundry service when he's off duty as a bouncer. quote:Tamrissa and Warla finished discussing whatever it was they'd been talking about, and Warla curtsied to them both before starting off on the run again, while Tamrissa began to walk toward him. Neither one of them took more than two or three steps, however, before someone knocked at the front door. Tamrissa stopped short with dread and fear flashing briefly across her face, but Warla veered toward the door with the obvious intention of answering it. Remembering what Jovvi had told him about the trouble Tamrissa had been having with her parents, Lorand moved quickly to stand by her side. He was ready to handle anything—except for what the situation turned out to be. What is with this random insertion of third person omniscient commentary in the middle of a third person limited chapter? We haven't had third person omniscient since Chapter 16! This is not how you foreshadow, Green. quote:"It's someone asking for you, Dom Coll," Warla said, turning at the door to look at him. "Shall I ask him in?" Drumroll please! Are you ready for Round 1, Random Encounter #2? quote:Him? Lorand thought even as he nodded his agreement. I don't know anyone in Gan Garee, but maybe it's Master Lugal, come to see how I'm doing. Guild men don't usually leave the area where they live and work, but maybe— Uh, hang on a moment. YOU'RE the miserable excuse for a friend! You distinctly decided that you should probably find out what happened to Hat in Chapter 14 and then never acted on it. Why are you blaming Hat for not letting you know he's alive while he's in the process of letting you know he's alive? quote:"Because I didn't know where you were," Hat answered hoarsely, strangely stiff and standoffish, and then he forced a laugh. "They made the stupidest mistake during that test, you know. They miscalculated the amount of earth to drop on me, and because of that I passed out. When I woke up I was out of that room, but I was also being told to go home. Just a Middle, they said, you're nothing but a Middle. Go home and get a job you can handle." I hate the direction Green's taken with Hat. It would have been so much more interesting if both Hat and Lorand had passed! Then from the minute Pagin raises the point about challenging Blendings in Chapter 18, we suddenly have conflict! Does Lorand care enough about his friendship with Hat to let him win? Or does the appeal of being close to Jovvi outweigh his concerns about Hat so may the best man win? Is Hat's ambition going to tempt him into deliberately sabotaging Lorand's efforts, since Lorand's always been better at Earth magic and Hat can't risk it? There's nothing that Eskin does as a character (pick on Clarion, jump at the chance to be made a noble, be a rival Earth magic talent for Lorand) that Hat couldn't have done. Eskin's unique back story is he's an academic from Regisard (aka University) which means he could legitimately have been used as a way to seed information about Blending, the Empire's history, etc, but we just get petty bullying instead. quote:"I think I'd better tell you right now how lucky you really are," Lorand began, incredibly relieved that he'd thought of a way to help Hat. "This isn't anything like what we imagined it would be, and you're lucky to be out from under. You see—" Believe it or not, this will not be the first time that we hear the argument "you got ahead because you're tall and good looking" from an "antagonist". quote:"What kind of help do you want, Hat?" Lorand asked, trying to stay quiet and reasonable. "Would you like to join us for dinner? I'm sure there's enough for one more, and I can help you clean up while—" In-text confirmation that magical strength (and potentially only in a shared aspect) is what stops other people from being able to do magic to you at random. Normal people in our world already are pretty terrible at respecting physical boundaries - especially given social distancing requirements. Imagine if you could just do whatever you wanted to someone who disagreed with you! This is why that "tingle" Lorand feels in Chapter 1 is kind of important to figuring how this would work. If you CAN feel when other people are using their ability, regardless of aspect, then at least you stand a chance of being able to react and possibly flee, defend or counter attack. If you can't, then it becomes first mover advantage and you're at the mercy of whoever is fastest. There should be massive cultural impacts from this! Yet all we see in-text is characters spouting lines of "you don't set off other people because you never know how strong they are magically" and characters going around doing the exact opposite. quote:"No, trying to confuse me won't work because I know the truth," Hat continued, and then his expression crumpled. "But you have to give me the silver, Lor, they said they'll kill me if I don't get it! They cheated me and robbed me, and now they're threatening to kill me! If you don't give it to me, there's no place else to get it!" We've seen Hat be ambitious and lecherous, but we have never seen him be practical about anything. quote:"You won't do it?" Hat said, obviously hearing nothing but what he wanted to. "You won't part with some lousy silver even to save my life? Something told me it would be that way, but I refused to believe it until it happened. Now I have to believe it, but there's something for you to believe as well: I'll get even for this if it's the last thing I ever do. Enjoy your silver and your clothes and your fancy house, because you won't have them for as long as you think." Are you guys ready for Tamrissa to dual wield Facts and Logic? If you are, you need to hold your breath for a moment while the spreads.quote:"I wonder if that applies to men who refuse to work," Lorand said, sending her a brief smile of thanks. "But in any event, I appreciate the help you tried to give. Maybe if he hadn't been drunk, what you said might have done some good." Why did we need this recap of what just happened in the last two chapters? quote:"Please make yourself comfortable in that chair, and I'll pour the tea," she said with another smile and gesture after closing the door. "And I agree completely about not telling Dom Drowd, but not because of any worries over him. The man is positively poisonous, and doesn't deserve to have any of us help him." Tamrissa just sabotaging someone's reputation on the strength of Jovvi's warning to "stay away from Eskin Drowd". quote:"Rion—Dom Mardimil—feels the same way," Lorand admitted, taking the chair she'd pointed out. "I can't say I like the man myself, but that doesn't mean I'll enjoy seeing him dead or worse. Which will happen if all our speculations turn out to be true." This most definitely does not qualify as intrigue. quote:But there is something we can talk about, if you don't mind my asking for some advice. And if you and Dama Hafford are as close as you seem to be." Tamrissa:  quote:"Let me see if I can find the proper way to put it," Lorand temporized, thinking frantically. How was he supposed to describe Jovvi's profession to an innocent and sheltered young lady? But with that as the core of his problem, he had to describe it. Why couldn't he have just kept his mouth shut or simply discussed the weather? Uh, dude? You literally just did. quote:"Lorand, I'm not a child," she said with the slightest trace of annoyance in her tone. "I know what a courtesan is and does, and just like most young girls, I used to dream about being one. On some level I still consider the life unbelievably romantic, even if my late husband made the thought of associating with men more than just a little distasteful. But that's my problem rather than yours. What part of all that did you need advice about?"  Yeah, totes sis, we all wanna be Satine. A reminder that I read this book as a FOURTEEN YEAR OLD GIRL because it somehow ended up in my high school library. This is such an incredibly damaging thing to put in a book. At that point in my life, my friends and I all had body image issues to the point where one had anorexic tendencies and I had seriously considered bulimia. Add the constant sexualizing of women and young girls well before the age of consent and we were pretty messed up. And a bunch of us read this crap in a book where we're told by a protagonist who is characterized by the author as a Strong Female Character that most young girls dream about being a courtesan, where the most common job description is to exist solely to provide sexual pleasure to men and that it's freaking ROMANTIC. Green.quote:"Romantic?" Lorand said, finding it almost impossible to get beyond that word through his shock. "It isn't romantic, it's . . . wrong. And what did you mean by that dreaming comment? Most young girls do not dream about becoming courtesans." Engaging Facts and Logic! quote:"What has decency got to do with being a courtesan?" Tamrissa asked, beginning to look as confused as he felt. "A standard of decency is applied to things that would harm others, but what harm does a courtesan do? Her task is to provide pleasure, and the more popular she is, the more of it she provides. What's indecent about that?" Why do I feel like Tamrissa just stopped being Tamrissa for this whole section and became an author self-insert? Oh, yeah, because there was this interview and Green's soapbox about courtesans. quote:"Please, enough," Lorand interrupted, holding up a hand. "Your points are well taken, but that doesn't change the fact that the whole idea of courtesans is . . . immoral. Just because everyone else might be doing wrong, that doesn't make what they do right." Paging aparmenideanmonad to this thread. quote:Lorand almost stated the reasons he'd been given, but then he remembered they'd already discussed and dismissed them. Scoundrels would be scoundrels with or without courtesans, no man turns his back on true love, and some women drive their husbands to other arms than theirs. It was something else entirely bothering Lorand, and he was finally forced to admit it. In this middle of Tamrissa's powerful deconstruction of Lorand's arguments with Facts and Logic, we get this random detail about rare blood diseases and uncontrollable bleeding that can't be cured by Earth magic. This will never be relevant to the plot or other character building, ever. quote:"Actually I do know, and the answer is no, I wouldn't refuse to marry her," Lorand corrected himself after thinking for a moment. "But that's just the point. I want to marry her, but she wants a—a—permanent liaison while she continues to be a courtesan. That's the part I'm really having trouble with." There is no way that any sponsor of a courtesan residence would go without employing an Earth magic practitioner. In between bouncer duties, loads of laundry, Lorand could dispense birth control AND also be the emergency first aid officer. That kind of versatility and skill in an employee is gonna cost...probably on par with Jovvi's courtesan fees. No wonder Jovvi thinks it's a good deal for both of them! quote:"So if there were any children you'd know who their father was," Tamrissa said once it was clear he had nothing to add. "That leaves the rest of your objection, which comes down to sharing intimacy. I hate to keep asking, but could you explain that? I know what the word means to me, but not how others look at it." Despite this revelation here in Book 1 and Lorand's character arc in Books 3-5, this is going to come up as an issue AGAIN in the second series. quote:"I think that's the best way I've ever heard it described," she said with a shy smile that illuminated the beauty of her face. "Thank you for telling me that, Lorand, it was very kind of you. What did Jovvi say when you told her the same thing? Doesn't she see it like that?" Actually, what Tamrissa did isn't advising, it's facilitating!quote:"At least I like it better, so it's settled. Now, what else can we talk about until dinner is ready? How about the weather?" The only person who's been on the receiving end of Tamrissa's "sharp tongue" is Vallant, and Jovvi's the only person who's witnessed it. The Vallant/Lorand staking of claims on "their" women is yet to happen so Lorand's got no basis for this impression since Tamrissa hasn't done anything to convey this impression in a group setting. Also the fact that these primary love romantic pairings are locked in on the basis that they met first. quote:If anything made a difference with the threat of death or worse skulking around in the shadows. And if he somehow managed to get around his other personal problem before he ran out of time. . . . So. Much. Summary: Day 4 Everybody (except Beldara) heads straight to the bath house after an exhausting day of magical braiding, though thanks to Tamrissa declaring mixed bathing off limits, we're spared any further awkward bath scenes with the full cast. Jovvi goes head first into territory with early converts Tamrissa and Vallant, who brings Rion and Lorand for the ride. Eskin and Pagin get left out because Counts so far: NAMED ON-SCREEN CHARACTERS WHO WE'LL NEVER SEE AGAIN: 17 Mildon Coll, Phor Riven, Jeris Womal, Eldra Sappin, Fod, Lord Astrath, Torrin Ro, Vish "the Fish", Jamrin, Hark, Reshin, Fellar, Ennis, Vosin, Parli Hafford, Regensi, Weeks, Adept Aminto, Mem Follil TOTALLY INDISTINCT ON-SCREEN LOCATIONS: 8 Rincammon, Haven Wraithside, Tamrissa's house in Gan Garee, Port Entril, testing facility in Gan Garee, Regensi's shop, Ginge's tavern, Magross bridge MEALS ON-SCREEN: 7 Day 1 (lunch, dinner), Day 2 (breakfast, lunch, dinner), Day 3 (breakfast, lunch, dinner), Day 4 (breakfast, lunch) EUPHEMISMS FOR BODY PARTS: 9 Male: <character name>'s body (x2), discomfort (x1), manhood (x1), desire (x2), renewed need (x1) Female: womanhood (x1), entrance of ultimate bliss (x1), desire (x1), incredible tunnel (x1) TERMS OF ENDEARMENT: 3 Male: love (x1), my fleeting love (x1) Female: sweet girl (x1) ANTAGONISTS: 9 General: Unnamed Chairman and the five Seated Highs in each aspect Lorand: Eskin Drowd Jovvi: Allestine and her henchmen Ark and Bar, Clarion: Hallina Mardimil, Eskin Drowd Tamrissa: Storn and Avrina Torgar, Beldara Lant, Odrin Hallasser Vallant: Mirra Agran PLOTHOLES: 21 COACH RIDES: 16 MEETINGS IN COACHES: 3 OTHER MEETINGS: 2 INTERRUPTED MONOLOGUING: 24 "CLIFFHANGERS": 11 POINTLESS TAMRISSA NARRATION: 8 TEA DRINKING: 7 BLATANT MORALIZING: 15 BATH SCENES: 8 WILFUL MISUNDERSTANDINGS: 5 MIND CONTROL: 5 BADLY WRITTEN SEX SCENES: 1 REPETITIVE POV EVENTS:
Possible fixes: We're now nearly three quarters of the way through Book 1 and NOTHING IS HAPPENING. We've had:
= 142,332 words total about the minutia of these awful characters' daily lives with a healthy helping of blatant moralizing throughout We're no closer to A few days ago, TOR just posted Chapter 12 in Sanderson's Book 4 of Stormlight Archive (Rhythm of War). It is 6,568 words long (515 words longer than the chapter we just read from Green) and is a pure character scene that's sort of expository (we're seeing characters in the same space after a 1 year time skip in the series so it's basically a re-introduction of everybody). The action consists of one character dragging another character to a winehouse to drink and chat with other characters - basically the same as what Green's got going on in most of her chapters. But the way Sanderson has his characters interact and how the dialogue is written, it feels so natural to the characters that they feel like real people. And there's so many relationships that get progressed and an ACTUAL CHARACTER ARC that happens to the POV character - to the point where it is my favorite chapter of the 12 that have been released so far. In one Sanderson chapter, more stuff has happened to advance characters and relationships than in the entirety of Green's book so far. Comparisons aside, at the freaking 3/4 mark of a book (if we're going by the Save the Cat model), we should be on the edge of our seats, thinking All is Lost, page turning as quickly as possible to see how the protagonists escape the Dark Night of the Soul! The Break into (Act) Three should be happening in the next couple of chapters. And yet I'm still here, reading about people having baths, taking naps and drinking tea while discussing conspiracy theories and not DOING ANYTHING. Changing NOTHING ELSE about Green's plot, world, or characters, you could at least sort of fix the overall narrative flaws by rearranging the chapters:
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Sep 24, 2020 05:18
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Ah, now we come to the standard beat in every fantasy-romance novel: the chapter where the characters drop everything to have a Socratic dialogue about the ethics of prostitution. Totally normal, see it all the time. The weird blood disease thing stands out because Green isn't content to leave Tamrissa's serial monogamy scenario a hypothetical. She has to invent a convoluted backstory so that Lorand can say "oh yeah, blood disease, marrying down the line of brothers, makes total sense" and get on with learning that Sex Work is Good, Actually but also The Real Problem is Frigid Wives.
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Sep 24, 2020 08:47
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I had flashbacks to Deuteronomy 25:5:The Bible (New International Version) posted:If brothers are living together and one of them dies without a son, his widow must not marry outside the family. Her husband's brother shall take her and marry her and fulfill the duty of a brother-in-law to her.
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Sep 24, 2020 10:58
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This was a beautiful tour of some very dated politics around sex work. Like I can't even say I disagree with the fundamentals of it, except that it's just so thin and...well, romanticized. Sex work is work like any other job, and deserves the same level of respect and security as all labor. Green never engages with that aspect at all, so instead it's entirely the Satine fantasy as you pointed out. Not wouldn't it be great to valued and respected for your skills and the work you do, but wouldn't it be great to be pretty and wear pretty clothes and have all the boys like you? And it's exceptionally ridiculous in this setting where the courtesan in question CAN READ AND MANIPULATED EMOTIONS. A great deal of sex work is about companionship and socialization rather than just sex. So in a setting where sex work is openly accepted as a legitimate career for anyone not a total rube, that spirit talents aren't commonly, or at least in high demand as, sex workers is nuts. Actually, is sex work accepted? It's certainly common, but is it like Victorian England where there were tons of prostitutes because that was one of the few avenues for economic independence for women, but the culture was highly prejudiced against them leaving them terribly marginalized and despised despite their commonality? Or is it like the co-bathing between genders thing where only rubes are upset by it, and everyone in the cities thinks it's totally cool and normal. Like how does Vallant, the most cosmopolitan of the men think of prostitution? Would he marry a courtesan himself or openly socialize with them outside of their workplaces?
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Sep 25, 2020 00:11
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quote:CHAPTER THIRTY-THREE Our new bros Rion and Lorand really should have coordinated on their laundry efforts. quote:He was definitely hungry again when he went downstairs, but this time he wasn't the first to show up at the table. As he reached the bottom of the stairs just behind Vallant Ro, Lorand Coll and Tamrissa Domon came out of the library together, laughing. All four of them ended up walking into the dining room as a loose group, where Pagin Holter and Beldara Lant were already seated. Then Jovvi Hafford arrived, followed a moment later by Eskin Drowd, and dinner was underway. Why does every character feel the need to constantly refer to other characters by their full name?! quote:There was a small amount of conversation during the meal, principally among Tamrissa, Jovvi, and Coll. Rion was included from time to time as well, and he felt that his responses were a good deal more satisfactory than the ones made by Ro. It was as if Ro had other things on his mind besides idle conversation, but Rion couldn't imagine what that might be. Why did we need three paragraphs summarizing dinner? I mean, I am grateful that we got a summary instead of having to read through it all, but why?? quote:Holter refused politely and left the room, while Beldara Lant simply walked out without the least response. The others ignored those two and left the dining room amid companionable chatter, and Rion was about to join them when Drowd put a hand to his arm to gain his attention. Oh. Green wanted us to see a character moment from Rion. Ok, this is cool and all, but I feel like we already saw this in the previous chapters. We haven't covered any more new ground and quite frankly the antagonist is becoming boring, because he's seriously just tried the same tactic again. quote:The others greeted his appearance in the library with smiles, a glass was pressed into his hand, and his opinion on the vintage was actually sought. Rion tasted the brandy then declared it the best he'd ever had, but that wasn't the vintner's doing. The warmth of the group that actually welcomed his presence meant enormously more, but he kept that part to himself to save everyone concerned the embarrassment. And instead of having continued character growth, we have him crumble just so the others can swoop in and save him. quote:"You can't mean it took you that long to find the most ridiculous and demeaning name possible," Jovvi said to her with a smile. "Surely a woman of your talent and ability was able to accomplish the thing much sooner than that." As a person who constantly overuses the word "actually", I actually can't believe the editor actually left TWO instances of the word "actually" in this sentence that was actually published. quote:"Clarion, who is this person?" she demanded, looking daggers at Jovvi. "Tell her to remove her hand from your arm at once, and to apologize to me immediately! Even though you stand about while I'm being abused, I refuse to accept such treatment from a commoner!" Uh, no, the name was really not the only thing holding Rion back. A crappy name at the end of the day is just a name. quote:"And you can forget about his going with you," Tamrissa added as Mother's face turned an even deeper red. "The law insists that he stay right here, and I'd guess that you've lost to the law once already. If you hadn't, he never would have come here in the first place. If you had even the least amount of ordinary manners I'd invite you to join us for a while, but as you were so obviously raised in a barn, you can flounce out just the way you came in." A reminder that Hallina Mardimil is related to three members of the Seated Blending. quote:"Clarion, I insist that you say something!" Mother ordered in a strangled voice, so livid that it was a wonder she didn't burst. "Tell these harlots that you haven't a copper of your own, and then let me hear that you mean to accompany me! I refuse to stay in this disgusting place one moment longer than necessary!"  all that ever happens in this book is people saying quote:The hall was empty and he crossed it quickly, taking the stairs two at a time to let him reach his room sooner. For some reason he abruptly remembered his original intention to complain about that room, a place that had grown more welcoming than his apartments in Mother's various houses had ever been. How could he have seen it as stiflingly small rather than cozy, garish rather than lively, inferior rather than wonderfully warm . . . ? how does that actually help at all? We've already seen that there's ranks within the nobility itself and constant jockeying for position.quote:Yes, that was it. Rion smiled where he'd stopped in the middle of the room, and then began to get undressed. He'd forgotten briefly that he was a noble, and no one forced nobles to do anything they didn't care to. quote:—hopefully against any and all trouble that Mother would certainly manage to generate. . . . What is going on with this punctuation??? This isn't even a separate thought that is interrupting anything. It's almost enough to make me start hating Rion again. Summary: Day 4 Everybody (except Beldara) heads straight to the bath house after an exhausting day of magical braiding, though thanks to Tamrissa declaring mixed bathing off limits, we're spared any further awkward bath scenes with the full cast. Jovvi goes head first into territory with early converts Tamrissa and Vallant, who brings Rion and Lorand for the ride. Eskin and Pagin get left out because Counts so far: NAMED ON-SCREEN CHARACTERS WHO WE'LL NEVER SEE AGAIN: 17 Mildon Coll, Phor Riven, Jeris Womal, Eldra Sappin, Fod, Lord Astrath, Torrin Ro, Vish "the Fish", Jamrin, Hark, Reshin, Fellar, Ennis, Vosin, Parli Hafford, Regensi, Weeks, Adept Aminto, Mem Follil TOTALLY INDISTINCT ON-SCREEN LOCATIONS: 8 Rincammon, Haven Wraithside, Tamrissa's house in Gan Garee, Port Entril, testing facility in Gan Garee, Regensi's shop, Ginge's tavern, Magross bridge MEALS ON-SCREEN: 7 Day 1 (lunch, dinner), Day 2 (breakfast, lunch, dinner), Day 3 (breakfast, lunch, dinner), Day 4 (breakfast, lunch, dinner) EUPHEMISMS FOR BODY PARTS: 9 Male: <character name>'s body (x2), discomfort (x1), manhood (x1), desire (x2), renewed need (x1) Female: womanhood (x1), entrance of ultimate bliss (x1), desire (x1), incredible tunnel (x1) TERMS OF ENDEARMENT: 3 Male: love (x1), my fleeting love (x1) Female: sweet girl (x1) ANTAGONISTS: 9 General: Unnamed Chairman and the five Seated Highs in each aspect Lorand: Eskin Drowd Jovvi: Allestine and her henchmen Ark and Bar, Clarion: Hallina Mardimil, Eskin Drowd Tamrissa: Storn and Avrina Torgar, Beldara Lant, Odrin Hallasser Vallant: Mirra Agran PLOTHOLES: 21 COACH RIDES: 16 MEETINGS IN COACHES: 3 OTHER MEETINGS: 2 INTERRUPTED MONOLOGUING: 25 "CLIFFHANGERS": 11 POINTLESS TAMRISSA NARRATION: 8 TEA DRINKING: 7 BLATANT MORALIZING: 15 BATH SCENES: 8 WILFUL MISUNDERSTANDINGS: 5 MIND CONTROL: 5 BADLY WRITTEN SEX SCENES: 1 REPETITIVE POV EVENTS:
Possible fixes: The reason why these random encounters bug me so much is because they are exactly that - random! There's no apparent rhyme or reason behind which antagonist is dropping in or when they're dropping in and no obvious link to the main plot for their visit, other than "the protagonists are getting on really well so we need more drama to reinforce the tight knit dynamic of the group and we need some sort of conflict to go forward". Last chapter I already pointed out how stupidly backwards the whole structure is. It's like somebody gave Green a diagram of the standard three act structure drawn on a really thin piece of paper and she got confused and looked at it from the reverse side in order to plot her book. Rion's entire arc is about learning to adult. Let's say we're doing a very small arc - by the end of Book 1, he's become somebody who can look after himself:
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Sep 25, 2020 01:11
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there wolf posted:Actually, is sex work accepted? It's certainly common, but is it like Victorian England where there were tons of prostitutes because that was one of the few avenues for economic independence for women, but the culture was highly prejudiced against them leaving them terribly marginalized and despised despite their commonality? Or is it like the co-bathing between genders thing where only rubes are upset by it, and everyone in the cities thinks it's totally cool and normal. Like how does Vallant, the most cosmopolitan of the men think of prostitution? Would he marry a courtesan himself or openly socialize with them outside of their workplaces? As far as I can tell, Green never did enough world building on this point because ultimately it's irrelevant to the plot. Jovvi's backstory is just a backstory so Green could have her little soapbox moment via Tamrissa in Chapter 32 and it's never brought up again in the first series; it's referenced in one line at a party in Book 6 and then I think in either Book 7 or Book 8, it becomes a plot point in relation to partner swapping shenanigans which ultimately doesn't matter. We'll actually get another courtesan POV character in the second series where spoilers for Books 6-8 Issini is a courtesan who had a regular patron, Edmin, a former High Lord and son of former High Lord Embisson Ruhl. She helps him hide and find a new life after the main crew take over, round up all the former members of the nobility and turn them over to the Astindans as slaves as part of the peace treaty. Eventually they end up in a Blending which is basically the "real/better than marriage" thing in this universe. You could probably go off Vallant's thoughts in Chapter 5 as being a fair representation of what wealthy merchant sons (and probably noble sons by extension) think - he's supposed to marry Mirra for her connections to another merchant shipping family to consolidate power, wealth and connections (very similar reasons to noble matches). The fact that he finds Mirra sexually attractive is probably a bonus for him, but marrying Mirra would be advantageous to his family regardless. His parents are supposed to be the only "decent" parents in the books so that means if he really didn't want to marry Mirra he wouldn't get forced into it, but I don't think they'd like it if he decided to marry a courtesan instead. I think in Chapter 5 he states outright that if he couldn't find a plain woman to suit him, he'd just visit courtesans for the rest of his life. That said, I think Green's drawn a distinction between courtesans (Jovvi) and other sex workers (Naran/the tavern girls) though she's never gone into exactly what the distinction is. I've always thought courtesans were intended by Green to be something like the Companion's Guild from the Firefly universe, except she completely neglected to give Jovvi any actual skills during her time with Allestine so in reality, we're just looking at branding and market positioning by different players in the sex work industry. Courtesans probably brand themselves as luxury, high end sex workers, are super selective (though STILL not clear whether they personally get to make the selection or whether it's up to their sponsor) and charge hefty premiums while tavern girls are doing it for extra money and don't get a lot of choice in clients.
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Sep 25, 2020 12:32
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quote:CHAPTER THIRTY-FOUR A reminder that Vallant is supposed to be an experienced, adult man who has had loads of relationships with women. I don't know about you guys, but once I was done with high school crushes and those first early relationships, my brain was also done with constantly obsessing about guys because as a grown woman, I had other, more important things to think about. Male goons, please confirm whether this is also the case for grown men. quote:Holter, Coll, and Drowd were in the coach with him again, and the first coach also carried its original complement. Apparently everyone had decided to start as early as they had yesterday, and that no matter what level they'd achieved. Vallant wanted the torture over and behind him as quickly as possible, but others, like Drowd, needed the extra practice time. The man looked positively grim this morning, and if stares could have killed, Coll would have been an unmoving body on the ground. "Breast-beating"? Green's definitely written this right after reading something from the Old Testament. I'm surprised that I'm not seeing references to sackclothes and ashes. quote:But he'd spent the entire ride thinking, and now it was time to decide that he hadn't lost out. It wasn't like him to simply give up without a fight, but this being stuffed into tiny, airless spaces was playing havoc with his usual self-confidence. He had to take care of that first, but as soon as he got back to the residence he intended to go looking for Tamrissa. He'd find out if he really had no chance with her, and if that didn't happen to be the case. . . . This guy is worse than a teenaged girl. quote:Having made up his mind brought Vallant almost to the point of whistling, but he wasn't quite that confident about going back into the session room. He was able to square his shoulders and enter the building as if doing it were easy, and actually crossed the floor without hesitation. The hesitation appeared when it came time to walk into the room itself, but Vallant forced himself to bear in mind that the sooner he got to it, the sooner it would be over. Swallowing from a dry mouth proved rather difficult, but remembering that no one would be between him and the door finally let him go inside. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdvugjyP6ZI quote:But not only hadn't he forgotten anything, forming the patterns was so easy it was as though he'd done it all his life. Vallant frowned at that, not understanding why it had happened. It was true that he'd found using his talent easy over the years, but he'd never needed to do anything this complex. Maybe weaving five strands would prove more of a strain, the same strain he could feel in the stranger who wove water to his right. Braiding things is so complex, wow. Oh, the strain to my suspension of disbelief. quote:Vallant opened himself to more of the power than he'd ever tried to control before, the silent roaring of its arrival echoing in his head. He, also experienced a surge of strength and vitality, making him feel like a seven-foot giant of good health, but that feeling couldn't be relied on, he'd learned. The more power you took in the faster it drained your physical strength, and that no matter how good you felt before you fell over from exhaustion. The best thing to do was to get on with it, do what was necessary—and then get out. All of this is so complex! But our protagonists are so perfect that anything difficult is surprisingly easy, to the disbelief of everyone including the protagonists! quote:A movement out of the corner of his eye took Vallant's attention, and he turned his head to see Holter getting up to leave his cubicle. Vallant remembered glimpses that showed Holter going through the three patterns as well, and now the man seemed ready to leave. In Vallant's opinion that was an excellent idea, so he banished the five strands back to the air they'd come from, then forced himself to follow Holter slowly. Annnnd that's it, struggle's over folks. By that I mean the struggle to stay awake while reading this section. quote:Something about his smile disturbed Vallant, but Holter was heading for the door after nodding, so Vallant lost no time following. The large open floor of the building's interior brought a small amount of relief, but what Vallant needed was the true outdoors. For that reason he lengthened his stride to reach the front door more quickly, stepped outside into the sunshine, then moved to one side to lean against the wall and close his eyes. He had no idea how long they'd have to wait before the coach returned for them, but he'd be fine as long as he could do his waiting right here. Stop. Ruining. Characters. Pagin was so likeable, right up until now when Green's decided to make him say that crap about his friends "looking down on him" and thinking "he's not good enough for them". Are we even talking about the same tavern sequence here? Ginge and Pagin's other friends are TERRIFIED of the fact that Pagin (and his new friends) have a thousand times the magical strength that they do, and think that they'll use it to get whatever they want. Which, given the maniacal cackling this crew engaged in after putting the tavern toughs in their place, is perfectly justifiable.quote:That was another question Vallant preferred not to get into, especially since it didn't seem possible to do anything about it. The little man had been invited to join them in the library for brandy last night, and he'd refused. It isn't possible to ease the pain of someone who doesn't want to be eased, someone who's decided to use the pain as a goad on the way to success. Obviously that's what Holter was doing, and the man didn't seem prepared to let himself be diverted. Still waiting for the hook in this primary romance, 34 chapters into the book. quote:Lorand left the coach right after Drowd, still upset about the night before. He'd meant to speak to Jovvi right after the small party, telling her how he saw things and then asking how she saw them. It would have been the perfect time, if Mardimil's mother hadn't shown up. The woman had probably bribed someone to tell her where Mardimil was, and then she'd sailed in and tried to take over Mardimil's life again. Once he'd left for his room, Jovvi and Tamrissa had been furious, which ended the possibility of any sort of calm exchange of ideas. That's a pretty big "if". In 34 chapters, we've seen that Jovvi is a super strong mind reader who also happens to have a significant chunk of gold on hand and is supremely smoking hot to anyone who lays eyes on her. She doesn't need you, and that's a cool thing. quote:Which wasn't all that likely to happen. He eyed the door he approached, the one Drowd had already gone through, trying to remember if he'd ever heard someone boast about almost having made it to the High competitions. He hadn't realized sooner that he should have known someone like that—unless those who came close never went home again. Middles were a different story, but then there was no competition involved with being declared a Middle. Just in case you missed the in the last couple of chapters.quote:So Lorand had to accept the fact that his life was probably at stake again, and refusing to use the necessary power wasn't likely to save him. Not to mention get him any of the gold he needed, for others as well as himself. Hat. . . Hat had been his friend for a very long time, and couldn't be blamed for what he'd said while drunk. The disappointment had been devastating for him, but he'd always been a lot stronger than he looked. He'd pull out of the depression and disappointment and then begin a new life—with the help of the gold Lorand would lend him. This internal monologue is kinda getting old. quote:Weaving two and three strands of earth from the containers provided in each cubicle turned out to be much easier than it had been yesterday, encouraging Lorand to go straight to four strands. He held his breath when it came time to take in more of the power, but it still seemed to be well under his control. That helped him to relax even more, which let him go through all three of the required patterns twice by the time lunch was announced. No, we will never see any characters display any sort of subtlety. This is about as subtle as Green's characters get. quote:Lorand turned away from the man's murderous glare, walked to his new, very comfortable chair, and sat. This new cubicle was very much of a lure to relaxation, a place where he'd be very comfortable while he pretended to try for control over five strands. That was what he had to do next, open to enough more of the power to control five strands of weaving, but the thought of that made Lorand sweat even more than he had before lunch. He was still ahead of Drowd, after all, so he had plenty of time before he would really need to move ahead. . . . The SAME monologue, twice in the SAME chapter. quote:Nevertheless, Lorand should now be able to handle five strands of earth. He moved them out of the container one at a time, making sure he had complete control over one before adding the next. The power roared inside him, demanding that he do and accomplish faster and with more assurance, making him dizzy as he fought to control it. That control became easier once he had all five strands and began to weave with them, but he did have to concentrate more than ever before. I seriously don't understand why you couldn't just skip the stupidity of the first tests and just have everyone who's a Middle try this braiding exercise in their home towns. Even if Book Four spoilers it's so you can snatch up all the strong magical talents and enslave them in your army you can STILL do that by only sending the people who qualify to the capitol AFTER they can braid five strands. quote:Toblis walked away from him then, so Lorand left the session room and headed for the front of the building. Only half of the afternoon was gone, but hopefully he'd be able to get the coach to take him back to the residence now rather than later. He needed badly to use the bath house, and then he would find Jovvi and get to that conversation he meant to have. Tomorrow would bring new situations and new problems, so he'd be smart to take care of the old ones before the new ones arrived. It's not a complete sequence until somebody mentions they need to take a bath. quote:Even if he was already dreading what he'd need all that rest for. . . I'm truly perplexed - what does Lorand need all that rest for? He qualified just as easily as Vallant did, because taking in more power gives you more strength as a side effect. Summary: Day 5 Vallant and Lorand head back to their sessions and qualify by taking in more power to weave five strands. Counts so far: NAMED ON-SCREEN CHARACTERS WHO WE'LL NEVER SEE AGAIN: 18 Mildon Coll, Phor Riven, Jeris Womal, Eldra Sappin, Fod, Lord Astrath, Torrin Ro, Vish "the Fish", Jamrin, Hark, Reshin, Fellar, Ennis, Vosin, Parli Hafford, Regensi, Weeks, Adept Aminto, Mem Follil, Toblis TOTALLY INDISTINCT ON-SCREEN LOCATIONS: 8 Rincammon, Haven Wraithside, Tamrissa's house in Gan Garee, Port Entril, testing facility in Gan Garee, Regensi's shop, Ginge's tavern, Magross bridge MEALS ON-SCREEN: 7 Day 1 (lunch, dinner), Day 2 (breakfast, lunch, dinner), Day 3 (breakfast, lunch, dinner), Day 4 (breakfast, lunch, dinner), Day 5 (lunch) EUPHEMISMS FOR BODY PARTS: 9 Male: <character name>'s body (x2), discomfort (x1), manhood (x1), desire (x2), renewed need (x1) Female: womanhood (x1), entrance of ultimate bliss (x1), desire (x1), incredible tunnel (x1) TERMS OF ENDEARMENT: 3 Male: love (x1), my fleeting love (x1) Female: sweet girl (x1) ANTAGONISTS: 9 General: Unnamed Chairman and the five Seated Highs in each aspect Lorand: Eskin Drowd Jovvi: Allestine and her henchmen Ark and Bar, Clarion: Hallina Mardimil, Eskin Drowd Tamrissa: Storn and Avrina Torgar, Beldara Lant, Odrin Hallasser Vallant: Mirra Agran PLOTHOLES: 21 COACH RIDES: 18 MEETINGS IN COACHES: 3 OTHER MEETINGS: 2 INTERRUPTED MONOLOGUING: 25 "CLIFFHANGERS": 12 POINTLESS TAMRISSA NARRATION: 8 TEA DRINKING: 7 BLATANT MORALIZING: 15 BATH SCENES: 8 WILFUL MISUNDERSTANDINGS: 5 MIND CONTROL: 5 BADLY WRITTEN SEX SCENES: 1 REPETITIVE POV EVENTS:
Possible fixes: I think the problem is Green can't decide whether her characters are going through magic school or not. She's picked an arbitrary set of trials, grouped everyone by intake and aspect, but then failed to structure it in any interesting way. The trials are so straight forward that there's no puzzle for the main characters to solve and the key (taking in more power) is genetically determined so they don't actually gain any skills or new abilities as a result of passing the trials. There's a half-hearted attempt at introducing some rivalry but the protagonists and antagonists never come to actual blows with each other because they're separated into completing individual challenges so it's all extremely boring. Some immediate fixes:
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Sep 27, 2020 08:44
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quote:CHAPTER THIRTY-FIVE The whole "Tamrissa is a naturally FIERCE and BRAVE person whose instincts have been repressed with regards to herself because of her horrible past" would be a lot more interesting and genuine if we didn't get any Tamrissa POVs - mainly because every time we're in her head it's written so disingenuously. quote:So I followed Adept Forum to my cubicle with more determination than ever before. Beldara already sat in her original cubicle among the four men we'd been with yesterday, but this time I ignored her as thoroughly as she'd been ignoring me. I had things to do, the first of which was to run through the braiding exercise again. Starting with three strands warmed me up, so to speak, and then I was ready to try four. Looks like Green's caught on and realized there's a complete lack of narrative tension in these chapters! Instead of going back and fixing the macro issues or having her characters do interesting things, it's yet another random cautionary incident happening to a bystander character that we've never met, is unnamed and we do not care about. quote:"All right, now, let's settle down," Adept Forum said as he came through, heading for the cubicles in back. "This does happen from time to time, tragedy though it is. It's not likely to happen to the rest of you, or it would have done so already. Settle down, I say and let the men do their job." Not having half of the butler and maid dialogue doesn't make it less obvious that it's butler and maid dialogue. quote:"That fool sitting there staring at a world he'll never come in contact with again is burned out, and he did it to himself. In all this time he hasn't even been able to coil two strands, but he obviously decided to change that. I felt him open himself wide enough for a herd of horses to pass through, showing he had no sense of judgment at all. You do have to walk before you can run, but what he tried was to fly." In the midst of this painful dialogue, we get a tidbit of information that's sort of interesting. Every time someone has talked about opening to the power so far, there's been no mention of what other people can feel (particularly those with the same aspect). Here is the first in-text confirmation that states the act of opening to the power - and how much power is taken in - can be felt by others. I'm picturing there's this intangible barrier to the power that everyone born with magic can sense, and you access it by temporarily cutting your own doorway through the barrier. Because everyone can sense the barrier, they can feel you doing it as well. Is there a range limitation on this? Because this would be a really interesting mechanic to use to find people who are in hiding, or reasons to pretend you're weaker than you really are. quote:Adept Forum and the other man had to step into an empty cubicle to let the two men leading the burned out one to go by, and I couldn't stop staring until it was no longer possible to see the slack face above the stumbling body. A small shiver passed through me at the sight, but nothing I couldn't cope with. The man was now beyond anyone's ability to hurt him, a condition I considered quite comforting. The other one, though . . . the smell was definitely beginning to turn my stomach. I also feel strangely untouched by the fact Tamrissa thinks becoming a vegetable is a "luxury" because she wouldn't have to worry anymore. Green keeps leaning on this device and it's tiring to constantly hear it from every single protagonist. quote:After returning to my chair I finished the first pattern with five strands, then did the other two. Running through all three for the second time was easier yet, and then Adept Forum was gesturing to me through the cubicle's clear resin wall. I rose and followed him out, not to the area near the door but through the door to the open floor of the building. This parting line from Adept Forum and Tamrissa's narration of his bow is just bizarre. We've got another indication that he's attracted to her (no surprises, please find me a character who ISN'T attracted to Tamrissa or Jovvi and I'll be surprised), then he says something about Tamrissa enjoying herself more than most and being happy about it. Tamrissa's got no idea what's ahead, but Adept Forum probably does know and thinks she's going to enjoy slaughtering other people and that makes him happy? quote:Stepping outside felt wonderful, as though I'd been released from some invisible shackle, and a pleasant surprise was waiting. Jovvi and Rion stood together to one side, and when they saw me they waved me over. Ok so if everyone can feel how wide everyone else is opened to the power, how the hell are these qualification rounds even any mystery? You would just look closely at the people handling five strands, how wide they are opened to the power, and then copy them from the beginning. quote:"There's our coach at last, so let's not waste any time getting to it. We're supposed to relax and enjoy ourselves today, and that's what I mean to do. I get the impression that tomorrow will be harder than anything we've faced so far." REALLY CRAPPY FORESHADOWING. quote:"I don't care how good they are," Rion said after helping Jovvi and me into the coach and then following. "I need the gold that winning a competition will bring, so I intend to win. Plan or no plan, I will succeed." So why couldn't this logic apply to Beldara before? Oh, because she's not one of Green's protagonists and therefore it's morally wrong for her to be confident and assertive. quote:"And I," Rion agreed with a merry grin, just about the first I'd seen him show. "The idea is marvelous, and I agree with it completely. We're all the best, and when we win positions as Highs, we'll have parties and invite only each other." You are horrible people. quote:Before we knew it we were back at my house, so we went inside intending to see about lunch. We actually made it about halfway across the hall before Warla appeared and stopped us. Really? She can't imagine who it could be? If Jovvi was as smart as she's supposed to be, she should be 1) opening up to the power to sense who the visitors are, then either 2a) fleeing the house right now, or 2b) exercising her talent from a distance to make Allestine and her henchmen leave. quote:Our good mood still clung to us, so Rion and I agreed at once to go with her. Warla led the way to the sitting room, and that location showed her opinion of the visitors more than anything else. If she'd approved of them, she would have put them in the larger and much more comfortable library. I wondered who they could be—until we followed Warla in to see a woman and two men. The woman was no longer young but still very beautiful, the men were the sort I would have been much happier not meeting, and all three together took the merry smile from Jovvi's face. Make Eldra the protagonist instead. She actually does stuff! quote:"I'm certain she's trying to reach you," the woman answered, her smile as sleek as her manner and words. "I have no idea how she'll accomplish it, but I have every faith that she will. With that in view, I think it would be best if you gathered your things now and prepared to return with me. These people here in Gan Garee are easily bribable, which means I don't expect to have any trouble in getting them to release you. And until I find the proper people to approach, I'll just stay here in this house." The moment Allestine has to actually act the antagonist, she loses all ability to be subtle and to be a character in her own right. From the little we saw of her, she has a complete mother hen act, so why wouldn't she be playing this up for all she's worth? Her line of argument should be:
quote:"Guess again," I said, the words popping out when I felt the surge of panic in Jovvi. It wasn't unusual for me to be afraid, but there was something . . . criminal in doing the same to her. It's like Green forgot how to write people trying to achieve something in a scene and decided all of her characters - antagonists particularly - just self-narrate their internal thoughts to other characters in place of actual dialogue. quote:"That's enough," I interrupted, now closer to outrage than I'd been in quite a while. "You and my parents must have been born under the same rock, and you make me just as sick as they do. To begin with, this is an official residence of the testing authority, so deciding to move in won't do you the least good. In the second place, your search for someone to bribe will be a long one, since both Jovvi and I have just qualified for the competitions for High practitioners. In the third place, I have no intentions at all of getting to know you, nor do I intend to let you take me over and own me. With all that in view, you can leave now." Facts and Logic! quote:"Throwing temper tantrums isn't at all becoming in a beautiful young lady," the woman said, the look in her eyes hard above a brittle and uncompromising smile. "You'll certainly learn better once you've been with me for a while, just as Jovvi and the others have. I've no idea what this— qualifying—is, but it undoubtedly means nothing at all. And with that in view, you may now find rooms for me and my . . . associates. We've had a long and exhausting trip, and their tempers are unfortunately a lot shorter than they should be." Can you please remember for once that you guys are HIGH TALENTS. quote:And that was when something . . . clicked inside my head. It was a very small happening, not even really a sound, more like a change of direction of sorts. I'd sworn not to let myself be hurt again, but even more I couldn't bear the thought of letting my friends be hurt along with me. I'd never had friends before, I'd never been allowed to have them. Now that I'd gotten past the restriction, I'd never go back to the old way again. FINALLY. quote:"You . . . you can't use that . . . that . . . obscenity against us," the woman tried in a trembling voice once I'd let the flames die, her eyes certainly wider than she would have liked. "It happens to be against the law, which I'm sure you know. If I report this incident you'll be sent to the Deep Caverns, so—" Oh come on. This is about as scary as the bogeyman. quote:"I was told that the laws don't apply to those of us who have qualified to compete as High practitioners, something that should be perfectly clear to a practical woman like you. We're of more potential value than people who have barged in where they don't belong, so if anyone is charged it won't be us. And now I think you'd better take Tamrissa's advice and go." What? In Chapter 9, the last time "terror hit you" when a man made unwanted physical contact with you, you immediately went to attack him with Fire magic. Yet now you're freezing? I don't buy it. Ark and Bar should be dead right now, with Allestine, Jovvi and Rion as witnesses. That would have INTRODUCED SOME CONFLICT because Tamrissa straight up killed two men in self defence using disproportional force. quote:—when they both choked at once, then began to claw at their throats. As soon as I was free I rushed over to where Jovvi and Rion stood, for the first time noticing the terrible expression Rion wore. And of course Rion has to save the day, because he's a man and it'd be terrible if he just stood back and did nothing because the women were clearly capable of saving themselves. quote:"Oh, you two were wonderful!" Jovvi exclaimed, looking back and forth between Rion and me. "Allestine is the most poisonous woman I've ever met, especially when she uses those two conscienceless curs to get her way. This is probably the first time in years that she hasn't gotten exactly what she wanted." And of course we have to have this outright explanation for why he wasn't doing anything because a real man would have jumped in immediately and sent them packing. quote:"It certainly was," Jovvi said with a laugh, giving him a hug before turning to me. "And so was what Tamrissa said and did. What you told Allestine infuriated her, Tamma, something I could see even if you couldn't. I noticed her deciding she wanted you in the residence as soon as she saw you, and no girl she's ever decided on has managed to refuse her successfully. You were marvelous to come to our rescue like that, and I couldn't be more proud of you." This book. quote:"Something which many ladies would have found beyond them," Rion said, sober and obviously sincere. "There are any number in Mother's circle who would have allowed themselves to be imposed upon even without two animals threatening them, simply because they see themselves as helpless. This is going to be a recurring theme - "animals" as an insult or derogatory term is second only to "fool". quote:I've begun to learn that one is helpless only if one believes it so, and you and Jovvi, my dear, happily see it otherwise. The two of you are so marvelous, in fact, that should either of you wish someone to lie with tonight and give you pleasure, the honor would most definitely be mine." Actually good characterization that got a smile out of me! These tiny flashes of what these books could have been are frustrating because they're so infrequent. quote:Jovvi shook her head at him with mock impatience, but still took his arm with an amused smile. They left the sitting room still exchanging comments which made them both laugh, and I watched for a moment with my own smile before beginning to follow. Jovvi's ease in handling herself with men was something I really admired, and maybe one day I'd also be able to— After 35 chapters, Vallant finally remembers that he's got some actual skill in chatting up women and decides to use them. quote:"I . . . really did nothing at all," I managed to get out, both wanting and not wanting to pull my hand back. "You were the one who—accomplished it all, and—and—so all congratulations should be yours." Judging by things Vallant has said and done, plus his obsessive internal POVs, this is a rather sinister line to have here. quote:His grin made me laugh, bringing back my previous good mood with a rush. He was going to be here, just like the rest of us, and now wanted to be here as well. I hadn't thought it would happen, hadn't even hoped because hope never works, but now . . . Am I the only one entirely unconvinced by Tamrissa's sudden change of heart? quote:"May I have the honor of escortin' you in to lunch?" he asked, offering his arm the way Rion had with Jovvi. "I'm starvin' and you're probably the same, but maybe later we can walk in the garden. It would be a real nice place to share thanks and congratulations." Someone needs to get this woman a vibrator. Summary: Day 5 Vallant and Lorand head back to their sessions and qualify by taking in more power to weave five strands. So does everybody else. Allestine and her henchmen show up to kidnap Jovvi and Tamrissa, only to be chased out after deadly displays of Fire and Air magic. Rion flirts with Jovvi, and Vallant flirts with Tamrissa, on their way to lunch. Counts so far: NAMED ON-SCREEN CHARACTERS WHO WE'LL NEVER SEE AGAIN: 18 Mildon Coll, Phor Riven, Jeris Womal, Eldra Sappin, Fod, Lord Astrath, Torrin Ro, Vish "the Fish", Jamrin, Hark, Reshin, Fellar, Ennis, Vosin, Parli Hafford, Regensi, Weeks, Adept Aminto, Mem Follil, Toblis TOTALLY INDISTINCT ON-SCREEN LOCATIONS: 8 Rincammon, Haven Wraithside, Tamrissa's house in Gan Garee, Port Entril, testing facility in Gan Garee, Regensi's shop, Ginge's tavern, Magross bridge MEALS ON-SCREEN: 7 Day 1 (lunch, dinner), Day 2 (breakfast, lunch, dinner), Day 3 (breakfast, lunch, dinner), Day 4 (breakfast, lunch, dinner), Day 5 (lunch) EUPHEMISMS FOR BODY PARTS: 9 Male: <character name>'s body (x2), discomfort (x1), manhood (x1), desire (x2), renewed need (x1) Female: womanhood (x1), entrance of ultimate bliss (x1), desire (x1), incredible tunnel (x1) TERMS OF ENDEARMENT: 3 Male: love (x1), my fleeting love (x1) Female: sweet girl (x1) ANTAGONISTS: 9 General: Unnamed Chairman and the five Seated Highs in each aspect Lorand: Eskin Drowd Jovvi: Allestine and her henchmen Ark and Bar, Clarion: Hallina Mardimil, Eskin Drowd Tamrissa: Storn and Avrina Torgar, Beldara Lant, Odrin Hallasser Vallant: Mirra Agran PLOTHOLES: 23 COACH RIDES: 19 MEETINGS IN COACHES: 3 OTHER MEETINGS: 2 INTERRUPTED MONOLOGUING: 25 "CLIFFHANGERS": 13 POINTLESS TAMRISSA NARRATION: 8 TEA DRINKING: 7 BLATANT MORALIZING: 16 BATH SCENES: 8 WILFUL MISUNDERSTANDINGS: 5 MIND CONTROL: 5 BADLY WRITTEN SEX SCENES: 1 REPETITIVE POV EVENTS:
Possible fixes: Since we're in a repetitive sequence territory, I don't have any more to add plot wise, so let's go to world building details instead. The current conspiracy theory is that there's a black hole somewhere in the Empire sucking up all of the strong magical talents for sinister purposes (which Book Four spoilers is true, it's the enslaved Gandistran army). There's also the "Deep Caverns" which we'll never see, though Book 3 spoilers Allestine and her henchmen will get sent to the Empire's deep mines as punishment for attempted kidnap of Jovvi. Magical talent (and strength) passes down genetically, the nobility have somehow bred themselves too thinly and we'll see a fairly horrific conversation in Book 4 about deliberate efforts to bring magical strength and talent back into the nobility. Finally, people who are burned out become vegetables whose bodies function but their minds are gone - and are put out of their misery. The whole point of a conspiracy theory plot is to have the characters discover a secret that is either horrifying in its own right or has horrifying implications for the world. The actual conspiracy theory is horrifying not because of the ends (i.e. having an army - which any nation of a reasonable size would have to have) but the means (people are enslaved using mind control drugs rather than being conscripted or willingly enlisted) and the purpose (to pillage and burn their way across neighboring nations for no reason other than "we want to make our Empire bigger" - like not even the most token of justifications such as "they have a rare resource that we want"). As a result, there's no payoff when the protagonists uncover the secret. What can we do about that? Well, let's start with some basic, pretty common assumptions about the Gandistran Empire which we can invent based on what we know from the books:
Just off the back of that, I'd say there could be a secret conspiracy on what happens to the husks of burned out people. Rather than putting them down (which would be a waste of perfectly functional bodies that have genetic potential), there's a grey market that's semi-sanctioned by the government for the bodies of people who were once Middle or High talents. Burned out men and women would end up being baby makers/incubators in a morally dubious fantasy equivalent of test tube baby factories. Most of the operations are funded by noble families wanting to improve their magical bloodlines. That's a super gross thing that would be arguably justifiable by the philosophies in this fictional setting, yet horrifying enough that you probably don't want it to be generally known to the entire population. There's a lot of scope for where to go story wise with this but it wouldn't really fit with the narrative Green has planned. I'm kind of meh on whether we need a conspiracy theory plot at all, given the number of character and relationship arcs that need to be juggled on top of the main plot. If I end up doing one, it'd have to be a main plot in and of itself, otherwise it'll be too distracting.
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Sep 27, 2020 22:55
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Earlier in the Tamrissa Explains It All chapter about courtesans, she told us that even if it's not ideal for men to seek companionship outside of marriage, the real blame lies with their wives for being so frigid. I'm getting strongly similar vibes here:Rion posted:"Men who attack women aren't men at all," he said, looking at Allestine, who had gone white again. Her ruffians continued to claw at their throats and began to turn very red, no more than grunts coming from them. "And women who tell men like that to attack are even worse, lower than the lowliest peasant. If anything like this ever happens again, you'll join them in searching fruitlessly for enough air to fill your lungs. Do you understand me?" Violent men are bad, but manipulative women are worse. So much worse, in fact, that it's okay for men to be violent to them.  You'd think that seeing Rion deliver a death threat before effortlessly transitioning into a complete charmer would set off all of Tamrissa's "abusive sociopath" red flags, but she seems pretty okay with it.
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Sep 28, 2020 00:19
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Well you see Rion delivered a death threat to somebody who's NOT a protagonist so that means it's all ok!
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Sep 28, 2020 12:09
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