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Sleeveless posted:Look, I think we can all agree that the show's two biggest flaws
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Jul 31, 2020 14:16
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Onehandclapping posted:I feel like the general consensus is that the show is amazing from the start, reaches an incredibly high peak with the flashback episode, then just kind of shits the bed by switching focus to some really uninspired scifi. The Kavalry wanting their own Manhattan was basically an allegory for white America's consumption, appropriation and jealousy (of the perceived strength and "inherent coolness") of black culture. Or at least that's how I read it. Like the same metaphor from Get Out but less elegant. White America loves to take things that are traditionally black and repackage them for a white audience as new, trendy and edgy. This works for the show even better imo because the show is taking a traditionally white story and Hero (Watchman/ Dr M) and made him black instead, pissing off a lot of white boys who have no doubt taken part in the white America's cannibalism of black culture at some point in their lives whether they're aware of it or not.
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Jul 31, 2020 15:20
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Koalas March posted:The Kavalry wanting their own Manhattan was basically an allegory for white America's consumption, appropriation and jealousy (of the perceived strength and "inherent coolness") of black culture. Or at least that's how I read it. Like the same metaphor from Get Out but less elegant. This is a great read, though it does make me wonder how Lady Trieu fits into all that.
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Jul 31, 2020 16:42
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Sleeveless posted:This is a great read, though it does make me wonder how Lady Trieu fits into all that. The "model minority" that also treats black people pretty much the same as white people do on average, although they should be on the same side? Also with her entire motivation being impressing her white father?
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Jul 31, 2020 17:59
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Koalas March posted:White America loves to take things that are traditionally black and repackage them for a white audience as new, trendy and edgy. See also: The in-universe Minutemen TV show where the first costumed vigilante becomes a white man.
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Jul 31, 2020 18:53
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KoRMaK posted:Whoo cares? Why does it have to exactly match the same beats from the comic Sorry, I wasn't clear - I don't care about that, I just think it reduces the emphasis of the allegorical element of Ozymandias' plot line. It reads more as temporally parallel than thematically parallel (which means that, to me, it felt a bit superfluous but for the last hour, as great as Irons performance is.) It's entirely possible I'm just too thick headed to see the parallels, though. Sorry if it's been covered a billion times.  EDIT: also everyone knows the show's biggest flaw is insufficient blue manhattan cock
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Jul 31, 2020 19:23
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What is the allegorical significance of his plot line with the main one?
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Jul 31, 2020 19:55
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Boxman posted:EDIT: also everyone knows the show's biggest flaw is insufficient blue manhattan cock There was not a drat thing insufficient about that! What will really make you feel cheated is the show ending 5 minutes before a glowing, naked blue Regina King.
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Jul 31, 2020 20:23
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Sleeveless posted:This is a great read, though it does make me wonder how Lady Trieu fits into all that. Something about pandering to Asian audiences to boost international sales? Also, Trieu stole from the colonizers and beat them at their own game, but there's also a morality tale because in becoming like the colonizers she despised, she destroyed herself?
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Aug 1, 2020 04:38
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I just realized that the thing that crashes down in the farmland Lady Trieu buys in her first appearance is, in fact, Adrian Veidt's ship.
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Aug 1, 2020 06:03
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:Something about pandering to Asian audiences to boost international sales? Also, Trieu stole from the colonizers and beat them at their own game, but there's also a morality tale because in becoming like the colonizers she despised, she destroyed herself? Yeah, I mean, that's pretty much it. Her mother was employed by a colonizer who was going to sacrifice her, then stole (DNA) from him and escaped instead so she could try raising the world's smartest kid. Trieu herself went a step further to claim his estate, but that wasn't enough since she also wanted the power of her country's conqueror. And her dead mother back to boot. Like her father, her goal was ostensibly world peace and she might have meant it on some level, but the story of her life was always taking as much as she could grab.
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Aug 1, 2020 06:14
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Killer robot posted:Yeah, I mean, that's pretty much it. Her mother was employed by a colonizer who was going to sacrifice her, then stole (DNA) from him and escaped instead so she could try raising the world's smartest kid. Trieu herself went a step further to claim his estate, but that wasn't enough since she also wanted the power of her country's conqueror. And her dead mother back to boot. Like her father, her goal was ostensibly world peace and she might have meant it on some level, but the story of her life was always taking as much as she could grab. It didn't help that she idolized Veidt so much that she literally had a statue that was literally Veidt, which she frequently and lovingly gazed at... There actually seems to be a lot of subtext to her character, now that I think about it?
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Aug 1, 2020 15:18
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She could have unfrozen him at any time, but instead chose to keep him as a lawn ornament until she actually wanted him. I think her feelings for him are "complicated" The visible frustration in her face in the final episode when Veidt suddenly isn't around to witness her big thing was a great touch.
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Aug 2, 2020 15:15
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NZAmoeba posted:She could have unfrozen him at any time, but instead chose to keep him as a lawn ornament until she actually wanted him. I think her feelings for him are "complicated" Yeah, she wants his approval, but also wants to receive it grudgingly?
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Aug 2, 2020 21:03
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She wants him to acknowledge that she's better than him.
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Aug 2, 2020 21:28
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She's definitely got a complex about Ozy rejecting her as unworthy. She idolizes him but also wants to surpass and ultimately destroy him.
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Aug 5, 2020 15:58
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I watched this for the first time finally It was incredible. Loved all the symbolism and subtext and amazing plot twists Eighth episode things started losing their shine. Dr Manhattan was being played like Data from ST:TNG, I didn’t quite buy the romance between Angela and him. While I could get into the Hooded Justice episode’s framing gimmick for an expo dump, I didn’t quite buy it for the 8th episode. Finale was hot garbage. Almost every plot thread got a happy ending. All the villains get some comeuppance. Nothing particularly emotionally or morally challenging.
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Sep 19, 2020 13:08
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Eleven Emmys for this piece of poo poo show nobody likes. Universal acclaim. In before the “the Emmys are hot garbage too” takes.
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Sep 21, 2020 15:46
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One emmy for every second of blue penis screentime
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Sep 21, 2020 15:51
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I’ll honestly be pretty happy if award shows end up being one of the things COVID kills for good. Them and handshakes.
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Sep 21, 2020 16:49
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Nieuw Amsterdam posted:Eleven Emmys for this piece of poo poo show nobody likes. Universal acclaim. Life must be so much easier when you're the kind of person who can dismiss ratings, reviews, and awards as all being totally fake because they don't line up with your personal tastes.
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Sep 21, 2020 18:19
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Sleeveless posted:Life must be so much easier when you're the kind of person who can dismiss ratings, reviews, and awards as all being totally fake because they don't line up with your personal tastes. It’s even easier when you don’t read the thread or understand sarcasm.
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Sep 21, 2020 18:28
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I wish the Emmys and Academy Awards had more fun categories for random qualifiers instead of just good acting and production. Like the MTV and Nick awards used to have. What I'm saying is that there should be a category that allows Lube Man to get a nomination.
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Sep 21, 2020 18:34
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Nieuw Amsterdam posted:Eleven Emmys for this piece of poo poo show nobody likes. Universal acclaim. hate to say the emmys got one right but here we are i guess
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Sep 21, 2020 18:41
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Nieuw Amsterdam posted:It’s even easier when you don’t read the thread or understand sarcasm. 
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Sep 21, 2020 19:56
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Ror posted:I wish the Emmys and Academy Awards had more fun categories for random qualifiers instead of just good acting and production. Like the MTV and Nick awards used to have. And the Academy Award for Best Summer Movie You Haven't Seen Yet goes to...
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Sep 21, 2020 21:13
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You're right, Emmy's are the objective standard of quality and if you don't like it you're Wrong because it won Emmy's.
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Sep 21, 2020 21:19
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Kazy posted:You're right, Emmy's are the objective standard of quality and if you don't like it you're Wrong because it won Emmy's. I'm convinced voters only watched the first few eps that dealt with historical racial atrocities and the power dynamics of law enforcement of the 8 eps total...ya know the stuff they abandon fast as hell. cuz then the show devolved into fart jokes, stolen cum babies, bad VHS monologuing, full-body lubing, blue metal dildoes, and whatever the hell that really hacky 90s climax with the satellite was about. and all that is without the reverence for the source material factored in, it's especially egregious when you get janky dollar store versions of characters that somehow forgot all the progress made in their respective book arcs. book sally* = realizes she's been a pawn of everyone, says gently caress that i choose my own path, and forges some individuality for the first time in her life. tv sally* = pines for john with dildoes and phone booths e: *laurie, mixed up my silk spectres book adrian = what kind of loving idiot gives a big villain speech, this isn't a comic book. tv adrian = i made this movie of my evil plan for u mr prez Oh well, I'd watch this thing again anyday over the synder movie though. my big watchmen hot take: it exists in its own capsule and all the work made after it using its name has been bad to mediocre. the book is a product of the time period and the tone of the medium itself (grim dark 80s wave over everything) on top of being tied directly to the medium itself. the thing has an entire symeterical chapter, something that doesn't exactly translate. i'm really good on followups, prequels, spin offs, videogames (lol at that xbox beat em up from len wein) forever. this show had some interesting elements that really didn't revolve around watchmen that could have been a neat fleshed out show in it's own right and then missed that mark hard for me. DC gunna DC tho, there's a new watchmen sequel (book) coming out as we speak. zer0spunk fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Sep 22, 2020 |
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Sep 22, 2020 16:00
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lol still getting mad about it AND the movie
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Sep 22, 2020 16:10
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KoRMaK posted:lol still getting mad about it AND the movie yes, it does suck being a fan of the book. even the guy that wrote it wants nothing to do with it at this point, continuing to stand up for it feels like you can't win. the people that made it are no longer on speaking terms, that's how hosed the entire thing is. people not liking this show shouldn't lessen your enjoyment of it. echo chambers are also dumb.
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Sep 22, 2020 16:24
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It didn't lessen my enjoyment lol, it's funny you think that you're opinion is so important that I'd give a poo poo enough to affect my watching of a television show that you are still mad about
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Sep 22, 2020 16:30
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zer0spunk posted:yes, it does suck being a fan of the book. Good news, the book still exists and remains unchanged.
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Sep 22, 2020 16:31
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KoRMaK posted:It didn't lessen my enjoyment lol, it's funny you think that you're opinion is so important that I'd give a poo poo enough to affect my watching of a television show that you are still mad about he said on a discussion forum, you weirdo
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Sep 22, 2020 16:33
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Sleeveless posted:Life must be so much easier when you're the kind of person who can dismiss ratings, reviews, and awards as all being totally fake because they don't line up with your personal tastes. I mean they are totally fake because they manifestly do poo poo like give awards to people that deserved to win them in previous years for better projects but didn't. Doesn't mean you can't be happy when the thing you like gets one. And I'd say this one won about 4 more Emmys than it should have, at least. loving Devs blew it out of the water on some of those sound Emmys, it in no way had exceptional costumes, poo poo like that.
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Sep 22, 2020 17:20
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zer0spunk posted:I'm convinced voters only watched the first few eps that dealt with historical racial atrocities and the power dynamics of law enforcement of the 8 eps total...ya know the stuff they abandon fast as hell. I'm really confused by how this criticism keeps coming up. What else were they supposed to do? I feel like including the Black Experience in America and baking it into the DNA of their characters was brilliant and will probably be timeless. The opening five minutes of the show did more to advance the knowledge of America's sordid racial history in the mind of the Average American than an entire Ken Burns documentary, nevermind that it was some of the most visually amazing television of the last twenty years...were the writers supposed to solve the issues of America's police state and Black relations in eight episodes as well?
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Sep 22, 2020 17:52
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I watched this show over a week back in February or March and thought it was the smartest and coolest thing I’d seen on TV in a long time. Count me as one of the people who learned about the massacre from the show and being just hosed up by it. I really enjoyed the whole thing and I think it’s funny how all the criticism at the time were like “these hyper militarized masked police being infiltrated by white supremacy is just kinda far fetched” and now look at the state of our entire country, just insane. The highlight of the show is definitely the drug sequence but I was invested the whole time. I even forgave the stupidity of the Time stuff, even though I absolutely loathe time traveling in any form, they make an earnest attempt to weave Timelessness into the very fabric of Dr. Manhattan’s character I respect that. It was also weird being on such a roller coaster with Ozzy, I feel like you go from hating him to rooting for him and back and forth over and over.
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Sep 22, 2020 18:22
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Bust Rodd posted:I watched this show over a week back in February or March and thought it was the smartest and coolest thing I’d seen on TV in a long time. Count me as one of the people who learned about the massacre from the show and being just hosed up by it. I actually paused the show to look it up on the internet cause I wanst beliving it could be true
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Sep 22, 2020 18:27
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Same. I was watching Man In the High Castle at the same time this was airing so my first thought was “okay, starting with some alternative history.....wait a minute....this really happened? gently caress.”
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Sep 22, 2020 19:23
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:I'm really confused by how this criticism keeps coming up. What else were they supposed to do? nah, i don't think you understand what i'm saying at all i liked those elements and they get dropped fast (like 1/4th of the way in) for 12 other plotlines, some of which go absolutely nowhere. it didn't need to solve racism (what are you talking about??) it just could have kept going with those themes as the core of the show instead and I would have enjoyed it. you really are confused by that sentiment? I liked the show that shined a spotlight on tulsa, something that doesn't get taught, as evidenced by most people's reactions to it in this show...I wanted more of that. the least interesting things this show did imo was anything related to watchmen. there's an entire show of material alone in the "masks" concept that runs through the pilot hardcore and nowhere else. people get really weird about any criticisms on this thing to the point where i'm glad it's a one and done personally ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Sep 22, 2020 19:54
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You can both think it's good that they shined a light on the Tulsa massacre and think the show's "most cops are good brave people its just a few bad apples" moral stance is extremely tone deaf at best 
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Sep 22, 2020 20:14
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