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Xand_Man posted:
For real tho homosexual undertones have been a part of the genre since the extremely early days (three sweaty dudes ramming their hypermasculine mechs together to combine their powers in an ultimate display of camraderie and strength) and pretty much every major development since has had an element of it. Gundam literally only exists because of fanfic about char and amuro making out. This isnt a joke it is a fact of history, the original run aimed at kids was a failure but it found an audience of mostly older women that let it make a second go of things that did take off. Obviously we're talking mostly undertones here but plenty of stuff has taken it in a fairly explicit direction and while mecha is primarily a genre with male protagonists, its natural those elements would continue to stuff like iczer, dancouga nova, magic knight rayearth, etc with female protagonists. Again the explicitness varies (iczer is explicit, nova has a few elements of it but not really any endgame romance, rayearth goes pretty hard into 'evil lesbian' and then has her also be the protagonists buried feelings that she has to accept and then she winds up with a dude so like. Figure that out.) But saying its not an element of the genre is pretty out there. Im not saying the game is bad or anything or even that it being as explicit as it is isnt relatively rare just that the 'imagine mecha... but gay' marketing bugged me.
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Sep 22, 2020 17:51
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anyway whats everyones favorite lesbian to main in a fighting game, mine is riesbyfe from melty blood
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Sep 22, 2020 18:02
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Endorph posted:Controversially i think yuri manga might have a lot of lesbian works You can't point to a ghettoized microgenre exclusively about lesbians and pretend it says anything about media at large. Edit: Having mild gay subtext also does not make something a "gay work." mango sentinel fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Sep 22, 2020 |
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Sep 22, 2020 18:05
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mango sentinel posted:You can't point to a ghettoized microgenre exclusively about lesbians and pretend it says anything about media at large.
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Sep 22, 2020 18:05
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Real hurthling! posted:Are they going to make a fighter? My guess is no, I don't think they necessarily feel the desire to make fighting games as opposed to anything else, and I don't even think Indivisible would have been so action-y if not for Mike's pigheadedness.
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Sep 22, 2020 18:07
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Eh, indivisible was clearly designed from the top down to ape Valkyrie Profile. Not just the combat, but the idea of recruiting fallen warriors with their own stories to tell and such. That said some of the fighting game elements that leaked into its controls and pace might have been Mike, yeah.
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Sep 22, 2020 18:08
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I think it's pretty pigheaded to act as though a queer woman making an independent game focused on lesbian romance and sexuality using the mecha genre isn't a landmark. Tomino isn't a lesbian and CharxAmuro isn't own-voices storytelling. Every single prior example you listed in your post, Endorph, is so heavily qualified. I say this as a consumer of genre trash and toyetic garbage who also desperately grapples to see myself, a bi autistic man, in those stories. There's a difference between shipping RabbitDragon in Kamen Rider Build, and writing and producing and successfully selling a queer superhero visual novel about sad motorcycle karate bugmen.
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Sep 22, 2020 18:28
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Im also a queer woman. Am I allowed to have opinions like 'the marketing of this one video game was somewhat offputting considering my personal experiences with fiction' without being called pigheaded or lectured at? The entire point I'm making is that it encourages behavior like this that i'm pretty sure even the creator wouldnt be down with, so iunno why you think that'd change my opinion.
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Sep 22, 2020 18:34
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Endorph posted:Im also a queer woman. Am I allowed to have opinions like 'the marketing of this one video game was somewhat offputting considering my personal experiences with fiction' without being called pigheaded or lectured at? If that had been the opinion you actually expressed, yeah.
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Sep 22, 2020 18:37
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mango sentinel posted:If that had been the opinion you actually expressed, yeah. Like it bugged me to see 'shes gonna make fighting games gay!!!' as if thats what she did to mecha, instead of just being anothet branch in the genres exploration of that stuff. Or like fighting games as a genre dont already have some exploration of it. Thats literally all. Endorph fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Sep 22, 2020 |
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Sep 22, 2020 18:38
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Endorph posted:Eh, indivisible was clearly designed from the top down to ape Valkyrie Profile
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Sep 22, 2020 18:52
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i wonder if they'll make an RPG or a dating sim or something. they usually have these cool character designs (besides the OG skullgirls cast, really) so something very character driven would be neat. also alex ahad was the primary driver for SG being a fighting game in the very first place, so without him or mike, just not really seeing a fighting game.
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Sep 22, 2020 18:54
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Chev posted:Yeah but Mike Z was the team's big Valkyrie Profile fan in the first place. There was a twitch stream where you'd see some other members of the team trying it for the first time back during the Indivisible campaign.
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Sep 22, 2020 18:54
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Endorph posted:That was the opinion I was trying to get across, so if it came across as anything else, I apologize. Can this delayed hyper combo stop now? I don't know who you think this is helping. tbh I agree with you that it is annoying that people act like women and gays need to be saved and this ground has never been broken before until some English-speaking indie did it. euphemism posted:i wonder if they'll make an RPG or a dating sim or something. they usually have these cool character designs (besides the OG skullgirls cast, really) so something very character driven would be neat. I think literally any other video game genre would be more profitable than fighting games.
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Sep 22, 2020 18:55
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mycot posted:tbh I agree with you that it is annoying that people act like women and gays need to be saved and this ground has never been broken before until some English-speaking indie did it. No idea if its any good but i love that it exists
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Sep 22, 2020 18:57
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Endorph posted:anyway whats everyones favorite lesbian to main in a fighting game, mine is riesbyfe from melty blood Zafina from tekken
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Sep 22, 2020 19:11
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mycot posted:I think literally any other video game genre would be more profitable than fighting games. also true. or a valkyrie profile ripoff. imagine that level of art assets placed into something that isn't so animation heavy and the amount of polish they'd be able to make from it, or at least the cut in costs from contracting work that allows them to invest in other stuff like more gameplay systems.
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Sep 22, 2020 19:16
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Endorph posted:anyway whats everyones favorite lesbian to main in a fighting game, mine is riesbyfe from melty blood juri
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Sep 22, 2020 19:21
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Endorph posted:anyway whats everyones favorite lesbian to main in a fighting game, mine is riesbyfe from melty blood Vice
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Sep 22, 2020 19:30
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Endorph posted:anyway whats everyones favorite lesbian to main in a fighting game, mine is riesbyfe from melty blood Sailor Uranus from Sailor Moon S. Gimme those half screen SPDs for a third of their health and infinites for days Speaking of where's our port/rerelease/emulation of that game
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Sep 22, 2020 19:38
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Okay, fine, Aevee didn't make mecha gay. She made a mecha game about sad ex-girlfriends on opposite sides of a war having a protracted fight about the future of a minoritized escape-pod community in the colossal shadow of an earth macroculture that wants to suppress and subsume an undesired deviant culture--by crude extermination, if necessary--where one pilot is a bitter veteran who accepted military service in space to afford to escape a body that made her want to die, who is willing to try to reassimilate and find happiness in a repressed and hidden underculture if it means her loved ones won't be lined up and shot, while her ex is a space-made wunderkind with the hopes and dreams of her community crushing her shoulders, who is deeply willing to die to protect the children who grew into themselves away from the pull of Earth's cultural gravity, and meanwhile a hot futch compulsiely-rebellious runaway with poor impulse control bounces flirtatiously between them like a bad idea with legs, encapsulating allegorically the tensions underlying queer community political discourse between strategies of principle-compromised harm-reduction, parallel-culture separatism, and noble-but-doomed revolutionary fervor. So she didn't make mecha gay, she made it gay. Didn't think one queer woman needed to unpack for another queer woman the ways that using an offhand remark like "astonishingly gay" can act as a casual synecdoche for a whole range of queer themes beyond "some people express a desire to mack on people of similar genders," but I also assumed that no one was gonna try and pick a fight over it, so I guess i'm zero for two here! And likewise, if the people who mostly made their bones on fighting games and beat-em-ups decide to make a fighting game and/or beat-em-up, I'd imagine the gal who writes about fraught women all gnarled up with attachment trauma might maybe possibly scratch up a plot about bitter and fragile ex-girlfriends who punch each other to avoid dealing with their unresolved emotional traumas, and then punch each other to tenderly resolve those emotional traumas or some similar poo poo, yknow? Which, if perhaps not entirely unprecedented, would be a pleasant change of pace from Daisuke Ishiwatari throwing more clones of Sol Badguy's dead girlfriend every game to desperately stave off the fangirls shipping his cool manly self-insert OC with Ky Kiske? Is that specific enough? Would you like me to add footnotes? EDIT: And fine, I didn't mean to imply that one english indie dev invented doing this in any genre, fighting or mecha or idk match 3 mobile, whatever. My bad. I just meant this one does it really well and really hard. gutterdaughter fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Sep 22, 2020 |
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Sep 22, 2020 19:46
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Endorph posted:In that case I feel like its less 'indivisible being different without mike' and more 'indivisible not existing' It exists because they were asked to pitch something like Child of Light, ie a side-view, animation-heavy RPG. Indivisible specifically was described by Mike as "the Valkyrie Profile I expected from looking at the back of the box" but I think he was the only person who had any specific ambitions for combo-heavy combat or deeper traversal mechanics or whatever, and a lot of the other devs would have been content to do something turn-based and more conventional - that's not to say they don't like that stuff or didn't want to do it, just that it's very obvious which areas of the game they left up to Mike. euphemism posted:also true. or a valkyrie profile ripoff. imagine that level of art assets placed into something that isn't so animation heavy and the amount of polish they'd be able to make from it, or at least the cut in costs from contracting work that allows them to invest in other stuff like more gameplay systems. Money wasn't really the bottleneck with Indivisible, it was more that Mike bristled at the idea of hiring other people to do things that he felt the existing staff could and should be doing themselves on top of their existing duties, because he (thought he) was maintaining multiple roles and therefore so should everybody else, and that's why their narrative-heavy metroidvania didn't have a dedicated level designer or writer for most of development.
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Sep 22, 2020 19:48
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King is the protagonist of The King of Fighters and she wears a suit, so you know she means business
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Sep 22, 2020 19:50
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Endorph is correct, mecha is extremely gay and has been since basically the inception if the genre. I like Heaven Will Be Mine but acting like it is a Landmark Genre Defying And defining twist on the genre is...as dumb as when people.do it about Madoka being gay and dark.
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Sep 22, 2020 20:38
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Everything was always extremely gay because gays weren't a 21th century invention and the text belongs to the reader, but there's a difference between dealing in undertones and something being produced as explicitly queer, by a queer author.
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Sep 22, 2020 20:48
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At this point, I feel 'this western indie dev will fix everything dead, wrong, and broken with (subgenre that's still alive)' is something that pops up every few weeks at this point. https://twitter.com/iiotenki/status/1296977132158033925 https://twitter.com/Daiz42/status/1304098786994774018 Hell, for a while people did it for fgs when skullgirls was in the works.
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Sep 22, 2020 20:56
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I just think it's hosed up that the thread acts like Endorph of all people is, like, a chud for not liking The Thing Gays Like, but I guess this is what posting is going to be like forever post-culture war.
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Sep 22, 2020 20:59
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Endorph posted:That was the opinion I was trying to get across, so if it came across as anything else, I apologize. Can this delayed hyper combo stop now? I don't know who you think this is helping. Sorry, we're chill.
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Sep 22, 2020 21:03
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mycot posted:I just think it's hosed up that the thread acts like Endorph of all people is, like, a chud for not liking The Thing Gays Like, but I guess this is what posting is going to be like forever post-culture war. Good thing that never happened and instead people had a pretty reasonable conversation. What's actually hosed up here is you acting like disagreeing with someone being rudely dismissive of a thing they don't care for is ~the culture war~. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Sep 22, 2020 |
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Sep 22, 2020 21:30
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:I like Heaven Will Be Mine but acting like it is a Landmark Genre Defying And defining twist on the genre is...as dumb as when people.do it about Madoka being gay and dark. ACES CURE PLANES posted:At this point, I feel 'this western indie dev will fix everything dead, wrong, and broken with (subgenre that's still alive)' is something that pops up every few weeks at this point. mycot posted:I just think it's hosed up that the thread acts like Endorph of all people is, like, a chud for not liking The Thing Gays Like, but I guess this is what posting is going to be like forever post-culture war. These are definitely, absolutely some things I said in my posts and not a bunch of words that were jammed into my mouth, 100%. "New writer for Future Club writes good fraught poo poo that is also overtly queer." Is that a neutral enough statement to include in a forum post without people jumping up my rear end about how wrong I am for saying a revolutionary american innovator invented gay genre fiction last week? Christ.
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Sep 22, 2020 21:35
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Lemon-Lime posted:Good thing that never happened and instead people had a pretty reasonable conversation. Gutter Owl posted:
im not here to take something away from you and if it came across like i was, i apologize. my point was just that there's a large variety of stuff out there that people deny themselves when they lean hard into giving too much credit to one person or one thing. i think a convos more interesting when stuff exists in a long lineage rather than when it comes out of the ether. and if that didnt get across, again, im sorry.
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Sep 22, 2020 22:13
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haha sagats crouch fierce go chonk
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Sep 22, 2020 22:19
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euphemism posted:haha sagats crouch fierce go chonk description: sagat x ryu lemon, dont like dont read
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Sep 22, 2020 22:25
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euphemism posted:haha sagats crouch fierce go chonk somebody play CvS2 with me on BEAR boogs#6617 discord
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Sep 22, 2020 22:53
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Endorph posted:title: haha sagats crouch fierce go chonk can ryu do a shoryuken with his dick???
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Sep 22, 2020 22:55
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Jazerus posted:can ryu do a shoryuken with his dick??? can you?
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Sep 22, 2020 22:57
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Give Marduk meter for s4
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Sep 22, 2020 23:03
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Gutter Owl posted:These are definitely, absolutely some things I said in my posts and not a bunch of words that were jammed into my mouth, 100%. When your concession in the argument is literally "OKAY WELL THEY DIDN'T ACTUALLY MAKE THE GENRE GAY BUT ACTUALLY THEY DID IF YOU MEAN WHAT I'M DEFINING AS ACTUALLY GAY" you are arguing exactly what I was saying, lol. And before you go trying to dutifully explain poo poo to me one queer woman to another, no it wasn't unique in the genre in terms of what it was talking about. As endorph says the genre's been full of even your weird side stepping redefinition of queer literature/writing is. Take it from a horrible gay rat that spent her life obsessing over mecha and magical girl poo poo, that poo poo isn't new. I could probably write a thesis on the homoerotic and romantic narratives of Getter Robo (AKA: Benkei's Balls Are On Stream and Everyone Loves It) Endorph posted:can you? Dick firing like Sean's hadouken.
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Sep 22, 2020 23:49
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I really dislike american/western claims of pioneerism about everything, and the erasure of history that often is integral to them, but it's easy to see how a more direct and accessible work, unabashedly displaying it's themes and reveling in them, could be taken as significant, instead of something that relies on personal interpretation and creative input from specific communities.
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Sep 23, 2020 00:06
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Eh, american or not, claims they're fixing the genre mostly make me think of how MVCI or Fantasy Strike were gonna fix the fighting game genre.
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Sep 23, 2020 00:12
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