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As anticipated, Echidna never lied to Subaru, as long as lying is defined as telling falsehoods. She deceived him by only telling enough of the truth to get him to jump to conclusions. Like when she brought the other witches in the second party, she never said they COULDN'T manifest separately, only that she could trade places with them - so he'd assumed that was a necessary aspect. The other witches point out that there's a lot she hasn't told him, and that she generally makes contracts with an "in the end" clause. You can assume that's part of all her promises - she says she should be able to come up with a way for Subaru to deal with his problems...in the end. She'll help him achieve the best possible future...in the end. They'll "agonize over" and "struggle with" problems. Subaru can Return by Death "all he wants until he reaches his desired future" after all. Her heart has affection for him and there is a desire to help him. It's all just that her greed is such that her curiosity will come first in the arrangement, and she's under no obligation to hurry him to his goal or minimize the suffering of anyone involved. And all that isn't quite enough to fully put Subaru off, even though he realizes that she's very superficial in her care. It's the fact that she put Beatrice, her ostensible daughter, through 400 years of solitude and uncertainty, all for the sake of satisfying her interest in whether Betty would willingly end the contract through her own will, despite explicit terms being incredibly important to spirits (as Puck keeps reminding Subaru). And on Beatrice desiring death over continued existence in that set-up, well Echidna just thinks it's drat wonderful. That's it, Betty was an experiment. Subaru would be one, too, no doubt. The Witch of Greed seems to have the demeanor of a mad scientist. This is where he ultimately rejects her - someone capable of toying with his friends and loved ones for the thrill of LEARNING isn't who he wants a partnership with.
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# ? Sep 24, 2020 15:40 |
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# ? Mar 28, 2024 21:40 |
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AAaaaAAAAAAAaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
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# ? Sep 24, 2020 15:40 |
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Yak of Wrath posted:I see it as Genuinely liking Suburu is a completely separate matter from not understanding his suffering as bad, because he can learn and experience what no-one else can via "Return by Death" ISN'T THAT AMAZING? She's an audience insert for everyone that said things like "well, why not spend a year learning magic, killing yourself every night so you reset time?"
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# ? Sep 24, 2020 15:51 |
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Going back through the opening for a moment... Is Subaru dying to the thugs in they alley something we ever actually saw in the show before?
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# ? Sep 24, 2020 15:52 |
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Yes, there was one very early reset where he fought back and did ok until he got stabbed and they ran off.
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# ? Sep 24, 2020 15:55 |
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Raxivace posted:Is Subaru dying to the thugs in they alley something we ever actually saw in the show before?
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# ? Sep 24, 2020 15:55 |
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Ah thanks, that one completely slipped my mind it seems.
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# ? Sep 24, 2020 15:59 |
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Toalpaz posted:AAaaaAAAAAAAaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
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# ? Sep 24, 2020 16:14 |
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Echidna comes on very strong huh?
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# ? Sep 24, 2020 16:16 |
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https://i.imgur.com/PAriPMU.mp4
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# ? Sep 24, 2020 16:18 |
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I hope there's more Minerva. I'm oddly smitten with her character and I don't know why.
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# ? Sep 24, 2020 16:19 |
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Grouchio posted:What's up? Never expected my subtitle to be foreshadowing? I said that as I was watching because the second trial is A LOT. Toalpaz fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Sep 24, 2020 |
# ? Sep 24, 2020 16:21 |
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Toalpaz posted:I said that as I was watching because the second trail is A LOT. Extreme dick move that was.
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# ? Sep 24, 2020 16:25 |
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Annointed posted:“subaru you got to eat the eggs” Subaru, you gotta stick that seed, waaaaaaaaay up there. Way up your butt Subaru. Grouchio posted:So uh, Subaru driving himself to suicide over Rem in a vain attempt to undo his miscalculation - right after confessing/promising to Emilia to be by her side? Yeah, um. Here's hoping that parallel/multiple worlds theory isn't real and subaru's consciousness is on one timeline/RBD literally rewinds time.
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# ? Sep 24, 2020 16:39 |
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Someone remind me why hes infatuated with Emilia
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# ? Sep 24, 2020 16:41 |
doomisland posted:Someone remind me why hes infatuated with Emilia I mean the witch of lust appeared to him as Rem, not Emelia, which means that's who he really wants to be there for him.
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# ? Sep 24, 2020 16:43 |
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doomisland posted:Someone remind me why hes infatuated with Emilia :thinking: Witch of lust took Rem's form.
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# ? Sep 24, 2020 16:44 |
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Toalpaz posted:Subaru, you gotta stick that seed, waaaaaaaaay up there. Way up your butt Subaru. Grouchio fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Sep 24, 2020 |
# ? Sep 24, 2020 16:44 |
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Grouchio posted:LN Spoilers: You are correct. The LNs nixed the idea of parallel timelines. I can't click this and im not looking at it even though I quoted it and accidently saw throught he bbc code lamao (didn't accidently see through edit.
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# ? Sep 24, 2020 16:44 |
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doomisland posted:Someone remind me why hes infatuated with Emilia It's sunk cost at this point, man.
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# ? Sep 24, 2020 16:45 |
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doomisland posted:Someone remind me why hes infatuated with Emilia Then it's mostly a matter of continuing to interact with her through loops, I suppose.
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# ? Sep 24, 2020 16:46 |
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Toalpaz posted:I can't click this and im not looking at it even though I quoted it and accidently saw throught he bbc code lamao (didn't accidently see through edit.
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# ? Sep 24, 2020 16:48 |
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doomisland posted:Someone remind me why hes infatuated with Emilia he's a self-loathing teenager and she was nice to him
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# ? Sep 24, 2020 16:49 |
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Honestly you could fix Echidna. I don't think she's malicious and you could edit in some friendlier terms. She offered you her body Subaru. That's good faith negotiation. She knows what makes him happy, re sending in someone to comfort him!
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# ? Sep 24, 2020 16:52 |
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:he's a self-loathing teenager and she's a pretty girl who was nice to him I amplified this for you based on my own experiences as a teenager who was a bit too similar to Subaru for comfort. Vincent Van Goatse fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Sep 24, 2020 |
# ? Sep 24, 2020 16:52 |
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I'm pretty sure that Echidna is doing all of this in service of her one true goal: sticking it to Satella. First off, she gained Subaru's trust, and engineered a situation where Subaru would stab himself to get out of Satella's clutches. Satella didn't like that one bit. After that, we've got the current situation. Subaru went to try and start up another tea party, but for some reason, it kicked off the second round of the trial instead. That was Echidna, breaking down Subaru so he would be ready to accept a helping hand when it was offered to him. She sent the witch of Lust in there first, which is a weird curveball, but whatever. When she offered the contract, Subaru was ready to accept it. Now, it stand to reason that the witch of ENVY wouldn't be happy about someone else getting their mitts on her boy. I think there may be more to it than that, though. The other witches implied that a contract with Echidna would be an exclusive contract. What if Subaru currently has a contract with Satella? A new contract would overwrite it. That might even cause him to lose his RFD power. In any case, it would definitely piss off Satella, which seems to be Echidna's main objective.
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# ? Sep 24, 2020 17:26 |
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Woe to you, second pretty girl to be nice to him. You were too late.
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# ? Sep 24, 2020 17:27 |
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So is the Trial that will unlock the boundary-field of Sanctuary also the experiment that will reincarnate Echidna? Obviously just because someone tells Subaru something doesn't mean they're telling the truth, of course.
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# ? Sep 24, 2020 18:09 |
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Echidna will become Subarus stand
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# ? Sep 24, 2020 18:18 |
MMania posted:So is the Trial that will unlock the boundary-field of Sanctuary also the experiment that will reincarnate Echidna? Obviously just because someone tells Subaru something doesn't mean they're telling the truth, of course. I don't think Echidna lies. Everything she says is true she just doesn't tell you all of the truth.
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# ? Sep 24, 2020 18:18 |
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AlternateNu posted:I loved the episode, but the idea that Echidna is kind of an knowledge hungry blank slate that wholly lacks empathy or emotional attachment to anything didn't really gel with me. Just look at how Subaru interacted with her at the beginning of the season. I thought it was pretty clear that his flirtatious attitude got to her, even it she was nominally more interested in what he could do to expand her knowledge base. She's not emotionless - she's a psychopath. Entirely archetypal, even: charming, manipulative, with a stunted emotional range and driven by entirely egotistic motivations. And I'd say a fairly successful one at that with how much people ITT and elsewhere have been taken in by her. Yawgmoft posted:Woe to you, second pretty girl to be nice to him. You were too late. Love be stupid like that. Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Sep 24, 2020 |
# ? Sep 24, 2020 18:41 |
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I don't quite think she's a psychopath, at least not in the internet colloquial meaning of "person who does bad things and is evil". I'm on the camp where Subaru being Subaru with his "Harem Protagonist EX" skill legitimately did in fact reach Echidna and she genuinely wants to help. It is just that her legitimately wanting to help is up there with Hastur wanting to genuinely be helpful and it probably takes more than two meetings for her to more fully come around to Subaru's level. Although part of me thinks of this as something of a deconstruction of harem tropes just as Re;Zero has generally been a bit of a deconstruction of isekai and nerd male empowerment wish fullfillment; namely, not everyone out there who wants to bone you is going to be a good person merely because they like you and those relationships won't be healthy especially if you jump into them head first. On some level I wonder if this is supposed to be analogous to abusive relationships... And actually come to think of it I wonder if perhaps that's part of Re;Zero's overall themes w.r.t relationships, hrm.
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# ? Sep 24, 2020 18:50 |
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Nagatsuki's said he doesn't like harems.
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# ? Sep 24, 2020 18:52 |
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Conspiratiorist posted:Nagatsuki's said he doesn't like harems. I guess that does reinforce my point but also feel it doesn't add much to the conversation. I think I prefer assuming Death of the Author generally since it provides a more interesting dynamic to how we engage with fiction.
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# ? Sep 24, 2020 18:56 |
Conspiratiorist posted:And I'd say a fairly successful one at that with how much people ITT and elsewhere have been taken in by her. Only if you count being dead successful.
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# ? Sep 24, 2020 18:58 |
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Yawgmoft posted:Woe to you, second pretty girl to be nice to him. You were too late. Second pretty girl who was nice to him killed him first.
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# ? Sep 24, 2020 19:05 |
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AlternateNu posted:Second pretty girl who was nice to him killed him first.
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# ? Sep 24, 2020 19:08 |
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Conspiratiorist posted:And I'd say a fairly successful one at that with how much people ITT and elsewhere have been taken in by her. We can change her! You don't know her like we do!
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# ? Sep 24, 2020 19:17 |
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AlternateNu posted:Second pretty girl who was nice to him killed him first. Taking the very direct way to his heart.
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# ? Sep 24, 2020 19:20 |
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# ? Mar 28, 2024 21:40 |
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Annointed posted:“subaru you got to eat the eggs” "Okay, this life we're going to figure out where sailors hang out." Conspiratiorist posted:Nagatsuki's said he doesn't like harems. And yet the Harem King IF story exists.
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# ? Sep 24, 2020 19:25 |