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Basic Chunnel posted:I think Fallout 4 is mostly fine, narratively. SEAN!!! and the Institute don’t even really need valid reasons, scientists doing horrible genocidal things because they can is hardly an unworn trope, nor is it one particularly out of step with actual history. Rolling up on a dude in a standoff with his synth replacement was a really effective and memorable random encounter, too. That in itself more or less justified the vague reasons for the project. It’s just creepy. I do agree, the replacement plot was a good idea because it creates some of the best storytelling in the game. The issue is that it is totally dissonant from the story with the institute that it just feels weird and out of place. All the game needed was a single speech from father with some solid writing outlining why/how. Shady loving scientists are gonna do poo poo like that, sure, but it is a bad case of narrative dissonance overall. Playing through FO4 I never really liked any of the factions, they're all so flawed in a way that doesn't feel real. It definitely feels like they shortcut the complexity by giving every faction a grossly obvious, 2D flaw. Their flaws are always what you see first and then it doesn't elaborate on that. I love in NV how the actual rot in every faction isn't on the surface. You have to do a lot of questing to learn of the NCR's beurocratic failures and overextension, the legions pseudo-intellectual eco-fascist bearing that is failed by a total lack of idealist communication to their actual followers and soldiers, house's misplaced intentions and megalomania, and learning that a truly "free" Vegas will lead to both good and terrible conditions. When I played F4 (on release, with my silly pipboy and all), it just felt like I knew every faction by just looking at the surface. Vichan posted:Don't you reveal his motivations after you kill him? You probably do, I haven't played much since launch due to disappointment (though still a solid 70 hours I believe). I just recall that the game didn't instill near the same anger in me as a player as it did in the player character, so the lack of nuance and agency when talking to Kellogg is frustrating.
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Sep 23, 2020 09:12
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F4 suffers massively from a ton of writing and planning issues (my first attempt at this post derailed into a litany of the bad moves and conflicting, undeveloped themes) but even for players who are okay with most of the defects of the setting, they built it around having an (almost) all-against-all war where most of the factions have no clear motives for their actions or decisions to exterminate each other. The work that goes into having the BoS ingame and also simultaneously having them kill everyone else...same with the railroad, same with the institute. It's absolute nonsense.
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Sep 23, 2020 10:03
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Honestly F4 feels a lot like they tried to learn from FNV but just didn't have the chops and/or workflow needed to really pull it off. From the way people talk about Bethesda divvying up the work in isolated chunks I imagine that was a big part of it, with a lack of communication and collaboration between the separate teams. That's all just speculation, obviously, but it makes sense to me. Every Bethesda game from Oblivion and on has had a few bits of really good writing, but it's never the main path stuff and it's never consistent. They make theme parks, not cohesive worlds, and even the best writers and designers (and I'm sure there are some great writers and designers there) can only do so much when they need to fit their work into a bigger picture that just isn't very malleable and that they don't seem to have a clear view of. It's almost like a game of Exquisite Corpse. F4 really does have excellent companions, though! Except Strong, but that's because Bethesda has never known what to do with mutants beyond "post-apoc orcs".
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Sep 23, 2020 11:08
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Fallout 4 sucks.
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Sep 23, 2020 12:14
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Wicked Them Beats posted:I was expecting a blood gargling psychopath (more in the Legate Lanius vein) but I meet Caesar and he's a somewhat soft-spoken nerd utilizing a flawed interpretation of history and philosophy to justify his atrocities and it was just so very real. Made it all the more satisfying when I introduced his thesis to the antithesis that was my cowboy repeater. A lot of the greatest monsters of this world, when you look at their motivations and reasons to do what they have done are just dorks who lucked into power.
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Sep 23, 2020 15:08
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cheesetriangles posted:PC being a new even more advanced synth with more human emotions would have been really cool. I mean if you want to make a new Snatcher or tribute to Bladerunner in RPG form that is fine and all, but I think they really got carried away with the concept in Fallout 4.
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Sep 23, 2020 15:11
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BurritoJustice posted:"why did you kidnap, murder and replace people with Synths?"
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Sep 23, 2020 16:02
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TheLoneStar posted:I'm not stupid, right? The Institute's evil goals just make no real sense, right? After playing through the game enough times to side with each faction, I still don't understand what these motherfuckers want. To me they seem like the Think Tank from Old World Blues but meant to be taken seriously. I certainly never found any good explanation for it. They have some vague statement about "making the world better" but the only way they ever interact with the surface is by sending murderous killbots and traumatized refugees (who are then hunted by other murderous killbots). It doesn't help that all your dialog choices boil down to: 1. Enthusiastic Yes 2. Yes 3. Snarky Yes 4. Maybe So you can't really engage with anyone, you just have to blithely accept or reject whatever people tell you.
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Sep 23, 2020 16:19
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TheLoneStar posted:I'm not stupid, right? The Institute's evil goals just make no real sense, right? After playing through the game enough times to side with each faction, I still don't understand what these motherfuckers want. To me they seem like the Think Tank from Old World Blues but meant to be taken seriously. No, you're not, it's not in the game at all. They promise to tell you, and there are terminals you can unlock after becoming the head of the Institute, and they still don't even get close to coming to an answer. It doesn't seem they want to outright rule the Commonwealth because they're terrified of the surface, none of their "experiments" seem to be testing anything, let alone anything they can use. Being extremely generous you could argue that they want to destabilize the various Commonwealth factions as like, preemptive defensive measures... except no one really knows about them and if they do it's "hell yeah let's go gently caress up those android makers" so uh, bad plan guys. It really, really is to me the greatest failure of FO4 (my priorities are weird.) To make the whole game, politically and personally, revolve around a faction whose motives, ideology, and material concerns are entirely absent is a shockingly dumb choice. Like if they were mustache twirling cartoon villains 100% of the time sure -- but they're not, they're a faction you're supposed to be able to side with (even if it's the "bad guy" choice.) I think FO4 is a little underrated (as a game, not as a Fallout game): I had enough of a good time with it as an open world FPS with weird base-building elements, the atrophied RPG systems had at least one good bit (I liked weapon modding), and Far Harbor is genuinely very good -- but god drat is the institute such an insane misstep. It legitimately makes my blood boil. Digital Osmosis fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Sep 23, 2020 |
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Sep 23, 2020 16:49
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 I really genuinely wish FO4 was not a fallout game and didn't pretend to be so I could just enjoy it as a great FPS game without getting unreasonably frustrated with how disappointing was is to me as a fan of the series. Fallout 4 is the only game where I went to the midnight launch in person at my local store, just because my 1Mbps internet wouldn't get the game fast enough to me. It is all about standards and expectations I guess
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Sep 23, 2020 16:58
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Someone said it before, but The Institute is The Think Tank played completely straight.
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Sep 23, 2020 18:42
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BurritoJustice posted:
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Sep 23, 2020 18:46
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Wingnut Ninja posted:It doesn't help that all your dialog choices boil down to: Really says something when the leader of a group known for enslavement and literal actual crucifixions can be more engaging than Father ever was. Both glad and disappointed that it's not just me, but Bethesda's writing is just so poor that the main villain group makes zero sense. Makes poo poo worse since they were hinted at in Fallout 3, so they had seven years to think up how The Institute would function and their goals and still managed to come up emptyhanded.
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Sep 23, 2020 19:24
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Wicked Them Beats posted:I was expecting a blood gargling psychopath (more in the Legate Lanius vein) but I meet Caesar and he's a somewhat soft-spoken nerd utilizing a flawed interpretation of history and philosophy to justify his atrocities and it was just so very real. Made it all the more satisfying when I introduced his thesis to the antithesis that was my cowboy repeater. What I found funny about Lanius is that he isn't a crazed maniac, either. When you talk to Caesar about how Lanius joined the Legion, or you listen to Mr. New Vegas talk about Lanius beating his men to death, you get the impression of a rabid animal and a dumb brute. But when you actually talk to Lanius he's by no means nice but he's intelligent and of course you can actually reason with him and talk him down, make him see the folly of the Legion's expansion. He's no dummy and if he is insane he hides it very well. BurritoJustice posted:"why did you kidnap, murder and replace people with Synths?"  Although I never get why the Legion nd Institute are compared when Maxson's Brotherhood is right there. It's a way better 1:1 comparison.
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Sep 24, 2020 18:25
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Lanius is cool because he's so smart that even passing the speech check isn't a guarantee- if you pass it and he goes "hmm, you've convinced me" you get an option like "ok so you'll back off?" and he immediately rumbles that you're trying to get out of fighting him
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Sep 24, 2020 18:33
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Lanius also has some conflicting information regarding him. It's mentioned how scarred his face is, to the point he blinded his slaves so they can't look at it, yet when you remove his helmet he looks perfectly fine. Who knows what bits of his background or the atrocities he's done are true, if any.
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Sep 24, 2020 18:44
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TheLoneStar posted:Lanius also has some conflicting information regarding him. It's mentioned how scarred his face is, to the point he blinded his slaves so they can't look at it, yet when you remove his helmet he looks perfectly fine. Who knows what bits of his background or the atrocities he's done are true, if any. And the Burned Man isn't burned either under his bandages. Its an engine thing and one easily solved with mods.
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Sep 24, 2020 18:48
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Arcsquad12 posted:And the Burned Man isn't burned either under his bandages. Its an engine thing and one easily solved with mods.
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Sep 24, 2020 19:15
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TheLoneStar posted:Well, you're not able to remove his bandages without console commands. You can just loot Lanius' helmet off his corpse. Clearly they can do scars given Christine in Dead Money. In New Vegas/Fallout 3 you can't just give a character a scar, you have to make a separate "race" with that kind of look, and considering you only see Lanius at the end of the game for a brief time and see his face only if you loot the helmet before the game ends, they probably didn't think it was worth it. As for Joshua Graham, I guess they thought the bandages were a good enough solution, although I pretty much never play without a visual mod that makes him look properly burned up.
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Sep 24, 2020 19:38
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Huh, surprised we don't have a mod for that. We've got several versions of canon or off canon Legion faction reskins.
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Sep 25, 2020 00:47
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I just started my Let's Play Fallout New Vegas thread. I'm trying to get the best ending for every character and faction on Hardcore Very Hard, without ever dying or reloading a save. Part 1 is up, I figure people here might be interested in seeing if I can pull this off.
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Sep 25, 2020 01:59
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Lol Veronica doesn't have a best ending, just degrees of misery.
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Sep 25, 2020 04:03
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Following to see what is the most you can do for every faction because I'm trying that in my current run If you want to be spicy nuke both NCR and legion before you get the pardon from killing Benny (legion) or meeting house (NCR)
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Sep 25, 2020 05:30
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I can't not do that when I play FNV now. "Yeah, you may have nuked us, but that was just an oopsy, let's let bygones be bygones. After all, you got into the Lucky 38!"
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Sep 25, 2020 22:40
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Arcsquad12 posted:Lol Veronica doesn't have a best ending, just degrees of misery. I thought that was Arcade and the Folllowers' thing.
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Sep 25, 2020 23:06
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NikkolasKing posted:I thought that was Arcade and the Folllowers' thing.
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Sep 25, 2020 23:08
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Less Fat Luke posted:I mean it's not a great FPS game either. it's a great bethesda game, which at this point is sort of its own weird little genre
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Sep 25, 2020 23:40
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Been poopsocking HZD the last couple weeks and I've been constantly amazed at how well-written the backstory is and how thoroughly the plot explores the premise. Then I read that it was written by John Gonzalez and understood why.
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Sep 26, 2020 01:28
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How long does Microsoft have to continue it's studio buying spree until they have the OG New Vegas team under their umbrella?
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Sep 26, 2020 02:48
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moot the hopple posted:How long does Microsoft have to continue it's studio buying spree until they have the OG New Vegas team under their umbrella? I think they have them all now don’t they?
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Sep 26, 2020 02:50
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It must really be an experience to go your own way from your old job only to be put back into it from a massive corporation buying companies like trading cards.
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Sep 26, 2020 03:10
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SlothfulCobra posted:It must really be an experience to go your own way from your old job only to be put back into it from a massive corporation buying companies like trading cards. This happened to a friend of mine—he worked at a UPS Store in college, got a job with an independent firm after graduating, and then that firm got bought out by UPS.
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Sep 26, 2020 03:16
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chaosapiant posted:I think they have them all now don’t they? But in any industry with as much turnover as game dev every substantial studio is going to be, on some level, a ship of Theseus. They've got two of the original original Fallout creators, they've still got rope kid and Oscuro and the Vault Boy art guy. They'll do just fine if they pick the IP up again. Who knows if rope kid wants to get into that rodeo again? Who knows if Microsoft actually has it in mind? I'm sure Obsidian could pitch it. But somehow I doubt the synergy of Obs + Bethsoft went into Microsoft's calculus in buying the latter in any significant way. They'd get their money back by just not stepping on Bethsoft's toes for a few years.
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Sep 26, 2020 03:41
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It really surprised me how much of the online reaction immediately jumped to "holy poo poo NV2". I didn't realise how large of a following there was. It's hard to get a lot of my friends to try NV after playing 4, New Vegas starts slow and is a very different tone. I think ropekid/jsawyer had a real grasp on what made New Vegas work, his director's cut mod (jsawyer.esm) is really loving good. I can't play without it, especially now that it's been picked up by the modding community to be a patched/customisable baseline. Speaking of common sentiment, what does everyone want from a potential New Vegas remastered? I see a lot of guessing about it for the 10th anniversary
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Sep 26, 2020 04:57
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BurritoJustice posted:Speaking of common sentiment, what does everyone want from a potential New Vegas remastered? I see a lot of guessing about it for the 10th anniversary Bethesda has been pretty adamant that they're not doing remasters, and to be fair, Skyrim is the only game they're redone- that was for a new console release cycle, regardless. Anyway, what I would want is pretty much already in progress- the F4NV team is working to make FNV but with an engine that has less input lag and better power armor.
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Sep 26, 2020 05:03
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I just want a game that isn’t restrained by ludicrous crunch time and an extremely ugly engine. Anything is better than Gamebryo circa 2011.
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Sep 26, 2020 05:12
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I may be in the minority here but I don't like the new power armour mechanics. I enjoy how in New Vegas it's something you wear that improves you. You've got a nuclear reactor strapped to you so that you have limitless power to help you move. I don't like the feeling that you're in a tank that limits you so heavily. It doesn't help that you get power armour and a Minigun in the first hour so it needs to be balanced further.
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Sep 26, 2020 05:16
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aniviron posted:Bethesda has been pretty adamant that they're not doing remasters, and to be fair, Skyrim is the only game they're redone- that was for a new console release cycle, regardless. But if it got remastered, I'd really just like a restoration of sorts. Adding in all, or most, of the content that had to get cut due to the time constraints. And then a spit and polish on top of it, removing a lot of the bugs and making the game more stable.
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Sep 26, 2020 05:28
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Aside from better graphics/gameplay (i.e. F4NV), the only thing I'd really want from a hypothetical remake/remaster/Director's Cut is the Legion settlements that were cut early in development. It'd give more character to the Legion... and more Legion characters to kill 
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Sep 26, 2020 05:55
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It's a shame there isn't really a legion companion in New Vegas (I know Raul has his sympathies), whereas going for negative karma and legion rep cuts off Arcade, Boone and Cass. It's amazing how much work has been done to fix New Vegas, stability wise. I've not had a single crash in my most recent 72 hour playthrough due to a combination of NV Anti-crash, Tick Fix and various bug fixing patches. I even have almost three hundred mods installed
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Sep 26, 2020 06:14
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