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Sleeveless posted:Considering they're some of the best-selling and most popular books of all time I think they're probably fine the way they are. Yes, they're clearly impossible to improve, Guy Mann rereg.
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Sep 24, 2020 04:42
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I lost interest at book 3 so I have no say in this fight. I got book 1 as a gift from someone who got early british copies and thought it was dreadfully boring, and when it exploded in popularity everyone made fun of them.
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Sep 24, 2020 05:21
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Angepain posted:I remember when they rereleased the Harry Potter books with Serious, Adult-Looking covers so the adults wouldn't be ashamed of reading them. Now you can just carry the same edition of a YA novel your kid owns with you on the subway and nobody gives a poo poo part of the reason crime got so high in the 1980s is because gangs would assault people on the subway for reading "dumb rear end kids books." Giuliani got big for promising to make it safe to read Ronald Dahl on public transit again. truly a dark time for our nation
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Sep 24, 2020 10:06
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All the boomer lead poisoning would explain a lot about how it became socially accepted that reading books is for weird people who need to be brutalised as punishment.
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Sep 24, 2020 10:27
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I haven't fully reread an HP book in over a decade. I was the biggest fan growing up, though. I use audiobooks and my aunt got me the first two books on frickin' audio cassette while I was in 6th grade and I remained hooked until around 2009. I must have listened to every single book at least 5, maybe even 10 times. I've kinda avoided going back to them because they are a cherished part of my adolescence but I do revisit my favorite parts semi-frequently. I have a much greater appreciation for the ethical vision of the books now I'm older. Harry is an overly passive protagonist and that still bugs me but not quite as much now I'm older. I see now what JK was going for with his character. There's a lot about the series that changes from Book 1 to Book 7 but it remains consistent in its core idea that the most important thing is a sort of loving humility, a combination of Christian and Platonic thought. I do believe JK read philosophy and this was all intentional. Also I know some people swear by Stephen Fry - and he's awesome - but I grew up with Jim Dale and he will always be the HP guy for me. Also I'm here because of that new HP game coming out. Maybe it will be the first one that isn't a steaming pile of poo poo.
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Sep 24, 2020 16:26
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A lot about Harry makes sense considering he's basically just incredibly relieved from the start that some people aren't treating him like poo poo anymore, given his childhood is described as basically nonstop abuse and bullying, anything aside from that is a huge step up.
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Sep 24, 2020 19:29
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Ghost Leviathan posted:A lot about Harry makes sense considering he's basically just incredibly relieved from the start that some people aren't treating him like poo poo anymore, given his childhood is described as basically nonstop abuse and bullying, anything aside from that is a huge step up. Which makes the part where Dumbledore admitted he put Harry in that situation knowing he'll get abused enough to be desperate to stay in the wizarding world incredibly hosed up. Putting aside the bit where Harry's protection needed him to go back "home" to the Dursleys (something Harry stopped thinking about them ages ago), hearing that he's been manipulated his entire life should have made Harry lose faith and  from Dumbledore.
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Sep 25, 2020 00:01
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amigolupus posted:Which makes the part where Dumbledore admitted he put Harry in that situation knowing he'll get abused enough to be desperate to stay in the wizarding world incredibly hosed up. I... don't think he said that?
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Sep 25, 2020 02:02
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Yeah, Dumbledore left Harry on their doorstep with instructions for the Dursleys to raise him as if he were their own child, and they basically spent 16 years abusing the poo poo out of him, which was something Dumbledore called them out on at the start of Book 6 when he picked up Harry for school that year.
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Sep 25, 2020 02:15
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(He still did seem to know and it's a condemnation that he didn't interfere, but as someone said before that's partially a result of the series tone-shifting from whimsical roald dahl british child story where that kind of abuse is standard dressing to more realistic fantasy.)
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Sep 25, 2020 02:19
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Tomorrow night imma get a few beers in me and try and explain dimbledore's plan
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Sep 25, 2020 03:15
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Huh, you're right. I still have the books close on hand to check the scene, and Dumbledore never explicitly said that he wanted Harry unloved and abused so he'd be desperate to remain in the wizarding world. Although he does acknowledge that Petunia took Harry in "grudgingly, furiously, unwillingly and bitterly" and that Harry arrived in Hogwarts not as happy or nourished as Dumbledore would have liked. Since Dumbledore called out the Dursleys on the damage they did to both Harry and Dudley, there's this awkward dissonance where Dumbledore cares for Harry and is aware what the Dursleys did to him, but not enough to actually get him out of an abusive home life.
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Sep 25, 2020 03:16
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amigolupus posted:Since Dumbledore called out the Dursleys on the damage they did to both Harry and Dudley, there's this awkward dissonance where Dumbledore cares for Harry and is aware what the Dursleys did to him, but not enough to actually get him out of an abusive home life. There may have been a lack of awareness as to just how extremely bad things actually were until they got to the point of reaching out to invite him to Hogwarts - Ms Figg was Dumbledore's main watcher over Harry, and while she babysat for him sometimes Harry was seemingly pretty good at being 'normal' and hiding the signs of abuse, and Dumbledore and the others apparently thought he was fully up on the Wizarding World and how his parents died until he actually came in. Of course then they sent him back every year, so  yeah dissonance.
MikeJF fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Sep 25, 2020 |
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Sep 25, 2020 03:25
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Basically, they decided "abused, but technically safe and alive" versus "not abused but at high risk of being horribly murdered" were their only two options, so they went with the first.
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Sep 25, 2020 03:39
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Harry, the two places you are safe from Voldemort are Hogwarts and your abusive Aunt and Uncle's house. So I guess you're heading back to the abusive family members instead of just staying at Hogwarts year round even though other people live there year round too.
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Sep 25, 2020 03:47
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muscles like this! posted:Harry, the two places you are safe from Voldemort are Hogwarts and your abusive Aunt and Uncle's house. So I guess you're heading back to the abusive family members instead of just staying at Hogwarts year round even though other people live there year round too. I mean the decision to send him back was made right after the familial protection was the only thing that saved him from Voldemort inside hogwarts, at the end of book one. (Although tying it to him living with his family and considering them 'home' is still a bit of a post-hoc justification when looked at from outside the narrative) (Also, it makes absolutely zero sense that he left Hogwarts after sixth year was over, given the risk his 17th birthday caused)
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Sep 25, 2020 03:57
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He, Hermione and Ron were the only ones who knew about the horcruxes. Dumbledore died and thus could not search. Explicit clues were out because the ministry and thus Voldemort et al could find out. Only one Horcrux was at Hogwarts. Voldemort was gaining power quickly. His supporters were infiltrating everywhere and imperiusing those in power or killing others. The trio needed to move and find the macguffins or they would be stuck doing nothing. Also Hogwarts came under Voldemort's control during the summer and there was no Dumbledore to protect Harry. I will say what pisses me off about the movies is their portrayal of Dumbledore and Voldemort. In the fight scene at the ministry in book 5, Dumbledore schools Riddle, while protecting Harry and while holding Lestrange at bay. Just spanks him. Riddle is terrified. In the movie Voldemort wins somehow and is looks like a sad penis.
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Sep 25, 2020 07:13
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Remind me again why they didn't just apparate Harry to the Weasley's in book 7 but rather opted for a much slower and easy to intercept method of flying that resulted in a slaughter? I know floo was being tracked and portkeys can only be made by certain Ministry approved wizards or some poo poo, but apparition presumably can't be tracked because later the trio do it to escape from the wedding and nobody finds them until Harry says the cursed word.
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Sep 25, 2020 07:28
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Cranappleberry posted:He, Hermione and Ron were the only ones who knew about the horcruxes. Dumbledore died and thus could not search. Explicit clues were out because the ministry and thus Voldemort et al could find out. Only one Horcrux was at Hogwarts. Voldemort was gaining power quickly. His supporters were infiltrating everywhere and imperiusing those in power or killing others. No I mean it makes no sense he went home for the vacation between sixth year and seventh year, when the protection dropped halfway through. They should've just kept him inside hogwarts and let the family protection fail, much safer than a mid-holiday extraction. Sydin posted:Remind me again why they didn't just apparate Harry to the Weasley's in book 7 but rather opted for a much slower and easy to intercept method of flying that resulted in a slaughter? They can't track apparition generally but they can apparently set up tracking spells at a single location. Privet Drive had massive ministry magical scrying spells over it and they needed to get free of it. Presumably the magic tags you so you can't just chain-apparate or something? MikeJF fucked around with this message at 07:47 on Sep 25, 2020 |
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Sep 25, 2020 07:42
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Sydin posted:Remind me again why they didn't just apparate Harry to the Weasley's in book 7 but rather opted for a much slower and easy to intercept method of flying that resulted in a slaughter? I know floo was being tracked and portkeys can only be made by certain Ministry approved wizards or some poo poo, but apparition presumably can't be tracked because later the trio do it to escape from the wedding and nobody finds them until Harry says the cursed word. Harry was still underage at the time, so any magic cast near him, including apparition, would be picked up by the Ministry. The Order believed the Ministry was basically fully compromised at that point, so they weren't willing to risk it. No idea why they didn't just all apparate out once it became clear that the plan had gone to poo poo and there was no point trying to keep it secret, though.
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Sep 25, 2020 08:04
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Oh that's right, they decided to try to evacuate a day or two before his 17th on the belief that it would be unexpected. I guess if he apparated under the Trace they'd see where he landed?
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Sep 25, 2020 08:12
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MikeJF posted:Oh that's right, they decided to try to evacuate a day or two before his 17th on the belief that it would be unexpected. Oh yeah I completely forgot that, lol. Kinda makes the whole going back to the Dursley's thing pointless since they were apparently willing to peace out of the magical protection spell two days early, so why not two months early and just hide Harry somewhere? All the Order scatters after Bill's wedding gets crashed and turn up right as rain months later to help in the big final fight, so presumably they had some working safehouses. Hell apparently Voldy was too stupid to check the loving Weasley's because Harry and friends chill out there for weeks helping around the house and it's only when the ministry falls they decide to crash the place.
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Sep 25, 2020 08:37
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I'm trying to remember, but it was something like they couldn't wrap a bunch of extra protections around Privet Drive on top of the love protection because Pius Thickness had been taken over by Voldemort and he controlled the Department of Law Enforcement and they were monitoring for spells and stuff around Harry's place. Presumably if they had tried to move harry out when the trace and protection dropped the Death Eaters's first move would've been to lob anti-apparition charms at Privet Drive on the stroke of midnight, so it'd be risky as hell. The weasleys and the other safehouses could legitimately ward the poo poo out of their places (all seven potters flew for different safehouses spaced around Privet Drive, and they all had enough spells to keep the Death Eaters out, and the Burrow was probably even more heavily protected). The Death Eaters probably knew he might have been at the Burrow but between the protective spells and the Order guards it wasn't viable to even try to attack, they'd just be wasting lives against a fortified position which might or might not have him. Until the Ministry had fallen and they got their hands on the ministry's capabilities, plus knew for certain where he was. But yeah they should've just kept him at Hogwarts or at the Burrow the whole time. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 09:10 on Sep 25, 2020 |
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Sep 25, 2020 08:47
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*me, incredibly knowledgeable wizard, first of my kind in research, waving my hands and thrusting a stick about to create an impenetrable wall of charms and defensive spells* *you, foolish and unskilled in Magick, bumble about with your wrists and harshly jab your stick about in a way that only works in the opposite hemisphere*
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Sep 25, 2020 13:52
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Does no one in Hogsmeade gently caress? Hogwarts doesn't seem to have any students from there. Also, do scottish children have to go all the way to London to get to Hogwarts?
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Sep 25, 2020 17:49
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Also, do scottish children have to go all the way to London to get to Hogwarts? Yes 
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Sep 25, 2020 17:53
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I haven't watched the movies in ages so maybe those sets contradict but I always got the impression that Hogsmeade was basically a tourist trap for Hogwarts students and a pub for the teachers, and that nobody actually really lived there besides weirdos like Aberforth. I don't remember the books mentioning a single residential building outside of the screaming shack or whatever - it was all just businesses seemingly tailor made to soak up money from teachers and students.
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Sep 25, 2020 18:54
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Is there meaning to the concept of tourism when your community on the whole British Isles is maybe a couple thousands people who can all teleport if they're of age? These guys all know each other.Edgar Allen Ho posted:Does no one in Hogsmeade gently caress?
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Sep 26, 2020 00:52
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It is important to remember that Dumbledore is a sociopath who uses people. A wizard George Smiley.
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Sep 26, 2020 01:12
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MonsieurChoc posted:It is important to remember that Dumbledore is a sociopath who uses people. A wizard George Smiley. Ahhh, a neolib hero
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Sep 26, 2020 02:18
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MikeJF posted:No I mean it makes no sense he went home for the vacation between sixth year and seventh year, when the protection dropped halfway through. They should've just kept him inside hogwarts and let the family protection fail, much safer than a mid-holiday extraction. Gotcha. Dumbledore wanted Harry to return to Privet Drive one more time. My theory is he probably didn't want to risk the ministry being taken before Harry's birthday and also have Harry be in an unsafe location like the Burrow or Hogwarts. The ministry entered the Burrow no problem despite protections from The Order and Hogwarts was taken over almost immediately after. At Privet Drive Harry was guaranteed safe until the 31st of July even if the ministry fell and then he could apparate the gently caress out immediately. Furthermore, part of Dumbeldore's plan was to use Snape to feed the real info about Harry's departure to solidify his usefulness and "loyalty" and thus continue to act as a double agent, able to execute necessary parts of the plan as Headmaster of Hogwarts (his reward). Same with why Dumbledore wanted Snape to kill him (also to spare Malfoy's soul). Dumbledore risked half the Order just to give Snape a real chance of giving the sword to Harry and friends, get Harry close to Voldemort so the soul fragment could be destroyed AND Snape's last job was to take out the snek. He failed the last one and the kid he bullied relentlessly chopped it's head off.
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Sep 26, 2020 03:55
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Bet Snape smoked weed.
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Sep 26, 2020 04:16
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C'mon, Snape clearly made weed tinctures.
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Sep 26, 2020 04:23
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Snape didn't smoke anywhere near enough weed.
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Sep 26, 2020 04:58
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Snape only made and used designer drugs, he was into chemsex Man has anybody made a Snape/Heisenberg copyright infringement t-shirt? That poo poo would make money
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Sep 26, 2020 05:48
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We all know that the climax of the book last book is built around dumb technicalities of wand lore, and who the Super Wand really belongs to in a convoluted chain of disarms. But how in the gently caress did Dumbledore intend for Harry to inherit its power and have the temporary mastery of death to survive voldemort's soul piece being removed if the Wand can only be taken by defeating its current owner? If he let Harry win a duel it wouldn't have counted as a defeat. He couldn't count on Draco actually getting a hold of it before he died to the ring's curse, and even if he was pretty sure about Draco getting the drop on him someday, it would have been just as likely that some other kid would get revenge on The Student Who Tried To Murder Dumbledore before Harry would. Same if he was relying on Harry taking revenge on Snape. Or, worse, all the evidence for Defeat ≠ Kill was plainly staring Voldemort in the face. He could have easily interpreted wand lore correctly and actually taken the wand from whoever got it off Dumbledore. Basically an impossible plan. Speleothing fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Sep 26, 2020 |
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Sep 26, 2020 15:15
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Speleothing posted:We all know that the climax of the book last book is built around dumb technicalities of wand lore, and who the Super Wand really belongs to in a convoluted chain of disarms. That brings me to the thesis of my entire analysis. Dumbledore, is an rear end in a top hat.
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Sep 26, 2020 15:25
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reignofevil posted:That brings me to the thesis of my entire analysis. Dumbledore, is an rear end in a top hat. 
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Sep 26, 2020 15:31
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Dumbledore was a-okay with Harry dying, no? Is it suggested that he masterminded that part?
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Sep 26, 2020 15:42
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In the dream sequence at the train station. Though I guess that's just Harry's projection of how he thought Dumbledore should be
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Sep 26, 2020 15:44
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