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There's an interesting thread through TFA and TLJ where Kylo Ren is a stupid hateful kid pretending to be a badass evil mastermind, ended up this way because the people he trusted failed him, but clings to this hate because it's easier and more immediately rewarding than accepting that he can't blame anyone but himself for what he's chosen to do after that failure. However, TROS drops all that poo poo straight on the floor, and all of Kylo's development comes at the cost of Rey's thin story (outside of arguably TLJ), and Poe and Finn and Rose just kinda being there.
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Sep 26, 2020 21:39
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Rose is there in in TROS? Also lol, I couldn't quite keep the names of the last two movies apart. gently caress it, is it last skywalker or revenge of skywalker or what. Such lovely lovely names.
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Sep 26, 2020 21:42
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Grendels Dad posted:Rose is there in in TROS? All of Kylo's development in TFA and TLJ comes at the cost of the rest of the cast. Especially in TLJ.
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Sep 26, 2020 21:52
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Cease to Hope posted:All of Kylo's development in TFA and TLJ comes at the cost of the rest of the cast. Especially in TLJ. But Rose was there in TLJ? Like, did you want the Casino Planet scenes to go on longer? I am also not quite sure what additional time would have done for Finn, or loving Poe. Maybe we could have cut a Kylo scene to actually see how Phasma goes into the trash compactor. Or am I reading your comment wrong?
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Sep 26, 2020 21:58
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All of the other characters are the same people at the beginning and end of each movie. Kylo develops, Rey kinda does, everyone else is just there. It's not a matter of extending particular scenes; a movie that was fundamentally about how (for example) Finn feels about anything would just be an entirely different movie.
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Sep 26, 2020 22:02
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Cease to Hope posted:All of the other characters are the same people at the beginning and end of each movie. Kylo develops, Rey kinda does, everyone else is just there. It's not a matter of extending particular scenes; a movie that was fundamentally about how (for example) Finn feels about anything would just be an entirely different movie. I completely agree, but I don't see how any of that "comes at the cost of" Kylo's development. They succeeded at showing Kylo developing, kinda, and pathetically failed at doing the same for any of the other charcters. They didn't fail because they showed Kylo's development.
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Sep 26, 2020 22:14
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Developing a character takes time and story focus. That's in short supply because all of the sequels are overstuffed with characters, especially OT characters. Look at how many OT characters have the basic role of "Kylo has an important relationship with this character, while everyone else gawks at them."
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Sep 26, 2020 22:17
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Cease to Hope posted:Developing a character takes time and story focus. That's in short supply because all of the sequels are overstuffed with characters, especially OT characters. Look at how many OT characters have the basic role of "Kylo has an important relationship with this character, while everyone else gawks at them." Sure, agreed. But it's still laughable to say that Kylo took up all the space for development instead of saying that the writers and directors just have done a lovely job. Like, Han took to Rey in TFA, and they have done nothing with that. She was basically Leia's adopted daughter in TROS and it just felt hollow. That has nothing to do with Kylo's development, it's the movies being lovely at handling anyone besides him. Which I think we are basically agreeing on, but from different perspectives.
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Sep 26, 2020 22:25
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The Sequel Trilogy is My Immortal set in the Star Wars universe.
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Sep 26, 2020 22:27
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Grendels Dad posted:Sure, agreed. But it's still laughable to say that Kylo took up all the space for development instead of saying that the writers and directors just have done a lovely job. It's an example of how they did a lovely job, and reconciles what people like about the sequels with what people do not like.
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Sep 26, 2020 22:37
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Cease to Hope posted:It's an example of how they did a lovely job, and reconciles what people like about the sequels with what people do not like. I took it to mean that the shouldn't have went with doing what they did with Kylo, my apologies.
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Sep 26, 2020 22:47
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Here is my proof: Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way:
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Sep 26, 2020 23:00
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Grendels Dad posted:In my opinion, the one and only good thing about the sequels remains Kylo Ren. He is a dumb idiot, but that's at least something. Him throwing tantrums was something different from everyone else going through the motions in TFA. He seemed unpredictable in a way that was interesting, as opposed to the other off the rack characters. His trajectory to super space Hitler in RoS was kinda lame, then the face turn in Return of Palpatine was the stupidest poo poo. But at least the character went through some poo poo. I have no idea how to describe Finn's development. A Stormtrooper who became a became a not-Stormtrooper, fell into a 12-hour coma and then was a rebel. The end. Or Poe Poe: Rebel master pilot. The end. I agree with this, making Kylo into a petulant neurotic manchild was a cool thing in both tlj and tfa. It felt novel to have the main antagonist be completely wrapped up in his own insecurities. But there are so many different plates spinning in both of those films that making him into super space Hitler just happens, without any substance to his character's development. The closest we get is seeing his incredibly large chest.
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Sep 26, 2020 23:15
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Tulip posted:is Star Wars Galaxies a sequel? Cuz there's some really interesting stuff going on there and the dev post mortem is really fascinating. What winds up being kind of interesting is that the inability to balance "Star Wars as a universe full of people" and "Star Wars as the Skywalker's story" ultimately turned into a poisoned pill that broke a lot of legitimately cool designs and ideas. It feels like it goes with a big theme with the games industry in the last couple decades where publishers basically wanted to trade in their existing audience for one they thought was more desirable, and it usually at best ends like the fable of the dog who sees his bone reflected in the river. Doesn't help that SWG as designed was the kind of MMO where you HAVE to have the playerbase form their own communities and have lots of them willing to run a store or dance in a cantina all day, and the audience they wanted required basically a total redesign of the game that invalidated everything the existing players had done but wasn't exciting and accessible enough for the new ones they wanted.
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Sep 27, 2020 05:52
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SWG is the game designed for Steve Smith and his Space Farmer LARP-ers.
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Sep 27, 2020 06:57
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Star Wars Galaxies was basically the last big MMO before World of Warcraft came out and ditched a lot of the tedious and unnecessary grind, and, quelle surprise, found that they could attract a hell of a lot more players by doing so. And so SWG spent most of its existence trying to attract that same audience at the expense of the players who'd stuck by them because they didn't want a WoW experience.
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Sep 27, 2020 07:12
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Bogus Adventure posted:SWG is the game designed for Steve Smith and his Space Farmer LARP-ers. The funniest thing about MMOs is that a lot are genuinely like this. Angry Salami posted:Star Wars Galaxies was basically the last big MMO before World of Warcraft came out and ditched a lot of the tedious and unnecessary grind, and, quelle surprise, found that they could attract a hell of a lot more players by doing so. Pretty much every 'WoW killer' was dashed against those rocks as they went 'Wowee, WoW sure has a lot of players! ...so how can get them to play OUR game instead?'
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Sep 27, 2020 07:38
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Bogus Adventure posted:There were some things that worried me, like the "it's not a Death Star, it's a Star Killer" superweapon, the mysterious return of Anakin Skywalker's lightsaber, and the title. Like, why would the Force need to Awaken? The title of the first movie being absolutely meaningless is a good microcosm of the whole trilogy. We’re never given any reason to think that the Force was asleep in any way. Ben Solo went evil, Luke’s school blew up, but there is no indication that the Force went dormant in response to any of these events. The only line that’s actually about this in the movie iirc is Snoke asking Kylo if he’s felt “an awakening”, referring to Rey using the Force. So the awakening is just one potential Force user becoming active? They could have added in a line or plot about how there have been no new Force users in x amount of time since y event or something. But as it is the movie is already a huge non sequitur just IN ITS TITLE.
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Sep 27, 2020 12:29
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I wonder how long til the sequels are the Dragon Ball GT of Star Wars
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Sep 27, 2020 16:14
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Just okay but weirdly the subject of furious hateful obsession by weirdos who should probably just chill the gently caress out? I'd say that we're already there and were probably already there circa 2002
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Sep 27, 2020 16:18
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GT was pretty bad but it wasn't necessarily the concept, it was just a miserable execution.
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Sep 27, 2020 18:06
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you really need to fix one of our two Avatars
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Sep 27, 2020 18:51
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I should get a new avatar
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Sep 28, 2020 02:52
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I want the Midichlorian/Osmosis Jones trilogy that Lucas proposed.
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Sep 28, 2020 03:57
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Bogus Adventure posted:I want the Midichlorian/Osmosis Jones trilogy that Lucas proposed. I want it purely for the meltdowns it would produce among the dribbling shitheads who've convinced themselves that Only George Lucas Can Save Star Wars Now. I want them to get their wish and I want them to spend the rest of their time on this good earth regretting ever having asked for it. Rise of Skywalker came close in terms of that "NOT LIKE THI-HI-HI-HISSSSS  " schadenfreude, but not quite.
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Sep 28, 2020 05:23
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nine-gear crow posted:I want it purely for the meltdowns it would produce among the dribbling shitheads who've convinced themselves that Only George Lucas Can Save Star Wars Now. I want them to get their wish and I want them to spend the rest of their time on this good earth regretting ever having asked for it. The best thing is that Lucas would be 100% on board with trolling those fans like that. I can see him going, "I told you they died, you should have gone with that  "
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Sep 28, 2020 05:38
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nine-gear crow posted:Only George Lucas Can Save Star Wars Now. Wait. People said this?
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Sep 28, 2020 05:47
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CainFortea posted:Wait. People said this? Yes. There is a whole veritable cruise ship's worth of Star Wars fans who legitimately hold George Lucas up as a would-be saviour or Mad Cassandra figure who You Should Have Listened To. They're usually found swimming in the deep end of the already shallow pool that is the self-styled Fandom Menace, but yes, people like that exist and do so unironically.
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Sep 28, 2020 05:55
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I think a George Lucas sequel trilogy would have the inbuilt advantage of being one persons vision of a mess, and a person with a track record of editor or not, not building mystery boxes. It still probably would have been an unsatisfying mess but hey thems the breaks.
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Sep 28, 2020 05:58
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nine-gear crow posted:I want it purely for the meltdowns it would produce among the dribbling shitheads who've convinced themselves that Only George Lucas Can Save Star Wars Now. I want them to get their wish and I want them to spend the rest of their time on this good earth regretting ever having asked for it. I unironically want to see George Lucas' Star Wars because it will be hilarious and weird. The original Star Wars is hilarious and weird. It is a movie about a farm boy, burlap people, bigfoot, someone in a rubber suit, funky helmets, and a one-eyed monster. Why is Star Wars: The Fantastic Voyage too much for fans?
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Sep 28, 2020 06:11
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Also, bad remakes of my favorite things have broken me, and the only thing that sustains me are the tears of those who still care/believe.
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Sep 28, 2020 06:15
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Having watched Cats instead of TROS made it clear that a weird mess made on one guy's vision is way better than a dull mess desperately trying to pander to an audience it doesn't understand at all
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Sep 28, 2020 06:52
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Having watched Cats instead of TROS made it clear that a weird mess made on one guy's vision is way better than a dull mess desperately trying to pander to an audience it doesn't understand at all having seen both, i'm not sure which one is supposed to be which here
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Sep 28, 2020 06:54
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I watched Dan Olson film himself walking out of a theater that had just finished playing CATS and then drive around downtown Calgary absently on the verge of ego death trying to process what he had just beheld. That's the same was actually watching CATS itself, right?
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Sep 28, 2020 09:33
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nine-gear crow posted:I watched Dan Olson film himself walking out of a theater that had just finished playing CATS and then drive around downtown Calgary absently on the verge of ego death trying to process what he had just beheld. That's the same was actually watching CATS itself, right? Pretty much, yeah.
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Sep 28, 2020 11:38
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nine-gear crow posted:I watched Dan Olson film himself walking out of a theater that had just finished playing CATS and then drive around downtown Calgary absently on the verge of ego death trying to process what he had just beheld. That's the same was actually watching CATS itself, right? Nah, the experience is more like this:  I thought it was hilarious, but that could be because I succeeded on my Sanity Check.
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Sep 28, 2020 14:47
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Or failed it.
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Sep 28, 2020 15:55
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Cats rules
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Sep 28, 2020 17:47
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elf help book posted:Cats rules
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Sep 29, 2020 00:27
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elf help book posted:Cats rules
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Sep 29, 2020 01:48
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