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canada jezus posted:Is there a consensus best duchy building? Or at least, are there ones that should be avoided? Right now i figure i'll get a military academy and a leisure palace. Blacksmiths, they harmonize to an insane degree with the barracks line. I suspect Archery Grounds are also a contender (+15/30/45% damage?  ), but I haven't been able to get a good archer based army comp going. That said, looking at the buildings on the wiki it seems like it should be possible once you get to crossbowmen.
PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Oct 5, 2020 |
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Oct 5, 2020 22:03
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Consensus seems to be two of your MaA buildings but I've heard people argue for (and have found useful myself) the leisure palace, military academy (especially with other bonuses to knights) and the tax office. This is a question I'm finding it weird I don't already know the answer to but uh, is there anyway to make a theocracy outside of being the temporal head of your religion? I'm specifically thinking of how like, Catholicism has prince-bishops and the like. Seems like I can either have lay clergy, who act exactly like secular rulers, or theocratic clergy, which just means leasing things out to your court chaplin. Is there really no way to make like, a priest own a holding who reports to your court chaplin or head of faith instead of to you?
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Oct 5, 2020 22:06
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Digital Osmosis posted:Consensus seems to be two of your MaA buildings but I've heard people argue for (and have found useful myself) the leisure palace, military academy (especially with other bonuses to knights) and the tax office. I will argue against these. Leisure Palace maybe (the bonuses to stress loss and schemes are very difficult to compare to military bonuses directly), but the Knight building is really bad because you will never had enough knights to compare with a unit of MAA, and the tax building feels kinda pointless as by the time you have access to duchy buildings taxes should not be your limiting factor. e: Actually I just read that the tax office gives you +20% holding taxes from all of your holdings? That might be worth it then. It's kind of a shame and I hope they balance it out, but being able to wipe an army 6x your own size is just so strong that you almost have to pick it. Same problem as with congenital traits. e: hmm so apparently Wandering characters can spend gold to improve their stats? Spotted this over on reddit: 
PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Oct 5, 2020 |
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Oct 5, 2020 22:14
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I'm not quite sure, early on it seems like the bonuses from a blacksmith are small enough such that they could, in theory, be avoided if you want something else (and I am personally a fan of leisure palaces, plus knights are pretty good early on), and later on my barracks-buffed doomstacks are wiping armies 5x their size even without 2x blacksmiths. There is a point where I think it might be just kind of excessive. Still, once you get to that point I'm not sure a decision that small makes too big of an impact.
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Oct 5, 2020 22:56
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canada jezus posted:Is there a consensus best duchy building? Or at least, are there ones that should be avoided? Right now i figure i'll get a military academy and a leisure palace. This is what I did and became a rich murder machine. I’ve got one century left in the game and gave one of my duchies to my heir and grabbed a just conquered one for myself since I had maxed out my first one and wanted something new to spend money on.
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Oct 5, 2020 22:57
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+1 to the Mother of us All crew. The last 2 rulers spent their entire reigns on fastest speed clicking through nonstop feasts while the continent slowly converted. I screwed up not reforming into a more zealous proselytizing type religion. Thankfully it turns out you don't need to convert all the old religion provinces because there were still a couple Old Bori followers from the constant heresies.  While I would love to keep dunking on Mega Byzantium with my teleporting super soldiers that may be enough Crusader Kings for a little while. Even with occasionally looting their capital, slaughtering their entire standing army, putting them thousands into debt and assassinating their emperors Byzantium just refuses to crumble.
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Oct 5, 2020 23:06
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PittTheElder posted:I will argue against these. Leisure Palace maybe (the bonuses to stress loss and schemes are very difficult to compare to military bonuses directly), but the Knight building is really bad because you will never had enough knights to compare with a unit of MAA, and the tax building feels kinda pointless as by the time you have access to duchy buildings taxes should not be your limiting factor. 230k prestige?  BrainMeats posted:+1 to the Mother of us All crew. The last 2 rulers spent their entire reigns on fastest speed clicking through nonstop feasts while the continent slowly converted. I screwed up not reforming into a more zealous proselytizing type religion. Thankfully it turns out you don't need to convert all the old religion provinces because there were still a couple Old Bori followers from the constant heresies.
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Oct 5, 2020 23:22
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PancakeTransmission posted:I assume you need Primogeniture to actually get to this? Or very careful baby making. I'm much earlier in this game and stuck at the "can't expand enough to make a second empire yet" stage. I tried to be careful and not push too far into a second empire title but my vassals expanded without me and I had a minor schism where my sister got her own Empire of Abyssinia. I was able to invade and take it back and destroy the title and by that time I had switched from Confederate Partition to just Partition, meaning no new titles created for heirs. As long as I never specifically created a second empire level title I was free to finish off the rest of the continent. By the time I had run out of spare kingdom level titles for sisters I had enacted High Partition which kept my core duchy safe from splitting even though I had stopped expanding. I never did go for primogeniture.
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Oct 5, 2020 23:34
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PancakeTransmission posted:I assume you need Primogeniture to actually get to this? Or very careful baby making. I'm much earlier in this game and stuck at the "can't expand enough to make a second empire yet" stage. Nah you can do it just fine before primogeniture, you just have to fight a war to reclaim each top level title after succession. Technically you don't even need to win those wars, a white peace will make a pressed claim that you can pass down the inheritance line. People really fixate on trying not to lose anything with partition succession, but this is the wrong idea if you really want to get swole. It'll be much easier to take those titles back than it was to get them in the first place.
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Oct 5, 2020 23:35
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As BrainMeats, if you get to Partition succession, it's fine as long as you don't create multiple Empire titles. You don't need to wait until Primo. Only Confederate Partition creates new top-tier titles. One empire + Partition/High Partition can conquer just as well, as long as you take the normal steps to manage partition.
Magil Zeal fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Oct 6, 2020 |
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Oct 5, 2020 23:57
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Hæsteinn triggering crusades for Catholics super early by invading random catholic kingdoms is kinda annoying. Got the crusade popup in 872 in my latest game. Edit: I miss the "Present Debutante" decision from CK2, some religions and cultures are so small that you really want a way to spawn a random mediocre courtier. Broken Cog fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Oct 6, 2020 |
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Oct 6, 2020 00:20
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Man, having a lot of children is annoying. Either you intentionally do not marry for alliances, you're constantly in wars you don't care about, or you constantly lose a bunch of fame from declining.
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Oct 6, 2020 00:24
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Pope in my current game has some major darth helmet vibes: Anyone have any positive experiences with any of the total conversion mods?
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Oct 6, 2020 01:09
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Excelzior posted:you mean some people don't play "Top to Bottom on succession" every time? Gonna have to try this, that sounds more fun than my typical "struggle to gain land, struggle to keep it" style, because gaining the land is fun but after that it feels like work.
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Oct 6, 2020 01:18
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Is there any way to spawn courtiers of your culture? I'm trying again as the Han Taoists in the 867 start, but there's like 30 Han characters around in total.
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Oct 6, 2020 01:23
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Broken Cog posted:Is there any way to spawn courtiers of your culture? I'm trying again as the Han Taoists in the 867 start, but there's like 30 Han characters around in total.
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Oct 6, 2020 01:39
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i think of demons posted:The Train Commanders marshal task does this but it doesn't fire super often. That's actually a decent idea, cheers.
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Oct 6, 2020 01:46
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convert provinces (a random character spawned in a province is always the culture and 'ethnicity' (random DNA table) of that culture) have as many courts to fill as possible (each court is apportioneed an amount of characters. they'll fill it from wanderers if possible but theyll end up generating characters too) basically just expand as normal. the only way ive found to create a bunch of same-culture characters quickly is through inviting knights, but you might end up inviting some tibetans or whatever since taoists don't consider buddhists, jains OR hindus evil strong bird fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Oct 6, 2020 |
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Oct 6, 2020 01:54
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Yeah I figured that expanding would make more courtiers show up naturally, but I was wondering if there was a way to spawn more courtier directly, because I legitimately had some issues finding enough decent courtiers of my culture to land.
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Oct 6, 2020 02:39
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Hellioning posted:Man, having a lot of children is annoying. Either you intentionally do not marry for alliances, you're constantly in wars you don't care about, or you constantly lose a bunch of fame from declining. One reason I swapped away from consorts/concubines to monogamy was that having too many children was more trouble than it was worth.
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Oct 6, 2020 03:20
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GoodluckJonathan posted:Anyone have any positive experiences with any of the total conversion mods? I play with the Vampire: the Masquerade total conversion (Princes of Darkness), which is fun if you like that sort of thing. It seems like every clan/religion has something to do. I've done the Tremere goal of acquiring an empire title and destroying the Tzimisce, next I'm working on the Malkavian "prank" and then I'm going to wake up Baba Yaga for the Nossies. It's impressive how much they have in there already, and they still have more they want to add (ghouls, vampire hunters in the near future, eventually they want to add other WoD splats like mages, werewolves, etc).
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Oct 6, 2020 03:23
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For the Mother of Us All achievement, what would be the best religion set-up to convert the African counties?
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Oct 6, 2020 03:25
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I'm not sure what's all valid for down there, but I'd suggest getting Pursuit of Power or Warmonger so you can keep doing Kingdom level invasions every ruler. e: oh, convert, I dunno Hellioning posted:Man, having a lot of children is annoying. Either you intentionally do not marry for alliances, you're constantly in wars you don't care about, or you constantly lose a bunch of fame from declining. Does it actually cost fame? I just mash that decline button unless it's some dynasty member I actually care about.
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Oct 6, 2020 03:35
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Moreau posted:For the Mother of Us All achievement, what would be the best religion set-up to convert the African counties?
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Oct 6, 2020 03:36
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PittTheElder posted:
Yep, you can see how much if you click on the "If you decline" tab. Declining offensive wars is usually pretty cheap, while declining calls to defensive wars can get pretty expensive.
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Oct 6, 2020 04:00
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Broken Cog posted:Yep, you can see how much if you click on the "If you decline" tab. Yeah I had five daughters when the patch came out and basically immediately lost a huge amount of prestige from ignoring their stupid husband's wars. I almost never join aggressive wars, but often join defensive ones since my whole goal was to have my daughter on whatever throne. I can help make sure she isn't married to some wandering nobody after all my effort to get her a sweet matrilineal marriage to a third in line heir and kill off the elder brothers, don't want that all wasted.
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Oct 6, 2020 04:42
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One thing I'm finding kind of annoying is vassals forcing themselves onto my council. At first I thought it was hooks they got on my heir before I took over, but no, actually what is happening is I'm acquiring vassals that had council rights guaranteed. Naturally I never gave them such rights, but apparently their previous liege did, and for some reason that means I now have to. The feudal contracts are kind of a strange system that seems interesting at first glance but in play I'm not sure how much I really care about it. Part of the problem is that vassal contributions are pretty slim for a long portion of the game; I think I need to see the tribal to feudal transition in action once more with the new random buildings system in place to see if vassals get enough income to actually build new holdings, because I know that it's ~1420 in my game and I've noticed maybe two or three new holdings in my vassals' territory that I myself did not construct (I built them some temples when I had over 100k gold and very little to spend it on). On the other hand I recommend trying to get your heir on your council if you can, it gives them bonus lifestyle EXP which seems to carry over for when you start playing as them.
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Oct 6, 2020 04:55
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if youre feudalizing a new territory you definitely need to build some stuff yourself to help your vassals out at the start. i usually just put some pastures (+ levies + tax) in castles and theyll start building on their own pretty soon, assuming they have halfway decent stewardship. i also give them lowest possible tax contracts for a while
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Oct 6, 2020 05:03
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Yeah the way feudal contracts and realm authority get preserved when you move up the feudal ladder is just strange. Plus the vassal screen does a terrible job of showing you who has somehow acquired weird privileges, and the only way know is to click through every. single. one.
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Oct 6, 2020 05:05
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canada jezus posted:Is there a consensus best duchy building? Or at least, are there ones that should be avoided? Right now i figure i'll get a military academy and a leisure palace. 2. Leisure palace. Not necessarily in that order.
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Oct 6, 2020 07:52
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Do you guys reckon double-stacking your MAA-relevant duchy building is overkill? A pleasure palace does sound nice.
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Oct 6, 2020 08:08
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toasterwarrior posted:Do you guys reckon double-stacking your MAA-relevant duchy building is overkill? A pleasure palace does sound nice. If the difference between 2 MAA buildings and 1 MAA building is "you start leaving casualties that can run away" then it's probably not overkill
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Oct 6, 2020 08:13
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:For such a character-driven game I'd like there to be a lot more reasons for fighting than just "more land more titles" eventually. CK2 never really got that either. I expect them to make some sort of adjustments to higher prestige/renown levels for characters/dynasties. Like Victoria 2 sometimes forced you to act carelessly to get some prestige to remain a great power. Something like that would make sense for characters, your old king having to show he still got this and his legendary status is well earned. Not sure how to do that, something like making higher level of fame requiring yearly prestige spending to maintain?..
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Oct 6, 2020 12:25
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:For such a character-driven game I'd like there to be a lot more reasons for fighting than just "more land more titles" eventually. CK2 never really got that either. There are some reasons, and CK2 had even more of them towards the end, but they're almost entirely tied to religious tenets such as warmongering or human sacrifice, where you gain huge other rewards (or avoid penalties) by going to war against whomever for whatever reason. The Flower War CB in CK2 was another one of those: no real gain of territory or titles - just a huge blow to the defender's military might (and then someone else could sweep in and make a mess of things). The question (and problem) is if and how that kind of mechanic can be tied to some other macro-level dynamic or driving force rather than just religion, since those tenets tend to limit those motivations and behaviours to very small groups. Tippis fucked around with this message at 13:23 on Oct 6, 2020 |
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Oct 6, 2020 13:21
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Tippis posted:The question (and problem) is if and how that kind of mechanic can be tied to some other macro-level dynamic or driving force rather than just religion, since those tenets tend to limit those motivations and behaviours to very small groups. Raiding is obvious but it's an early game entertainment. Maybe inevitable Hordes expansion will make it so that hordes can just burn cities for fun and glory and wealth. Inevitable Artifacts expansion would probably allow you to steal precious things like relics of saints or ancient crowns but it probably won't be a Casus Belli on itself. Maybe some religions/character perks would give you CB for stealing something but it shouldn't be a norm. Slave hunting is also quite obvious but it would require rework of the economy. Also would be relatively situational as most of the world of CK3 has complicated relations with slavery. My vision for CK3 has more pro-active characters. CK2 had character ambitions, and I remember fondly EU Rome characters having ambitions like "ally Macedonia" or "declare war on Carthage". So maybe inevitable Council DLC will have something like that. If you're tribal your council just doesn't understand why aren't we doing any raiding right now. If you have a more advanced society you need hooks on your court to justify any personal war of yours while your council wants you to do all kinds of stuff that would be moral, just or beneficial to the nobles.
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Oct 6, 2020 14:00
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I think one good way to expand CB's would be to link them more into the character system. You could have some based on character interactions; declaring war to fight your rival, to free imprisoned family members and friends, or avenge the death of a loved one. On the other side, certain traits could unlocks certain CBs; wrathful or brave characters might fight to prove their prowess, while being zealous could unlock event chains that push you towards inadvisable wars with neighbouring heathens. You could even add a stress coping trait that let's you lose stress from fighting wars. Making war a broader option for character expression would open up a lot of opportunities.
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Oct 6, 2020 14:15
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ilitarist posted:My vision for CK3 has more pro-active characters. CK2 had character ambitions, and I remember fondly EU Rome characters having ambitions like "ally Macedonia" or "declare war on Carthage". So maybe inevitable Council DLC will have something like that. If you're tribal your council just doesn't understand why aren't we doing any raiding right now. If you have a more advanced society you need hooks on your court to justify any personal war of yours while your council wants you to do all kinds of stuff that would be moral, just or beneficial to the nobles. That could also go more towards the previous discussion of the overly stable game state that CK3 suffers from: have vassals or a council that make more internal demands on the ruler as far as preserving the Put another way, give more opportunities and demands for fighting that aren't necessarily about defending titles or even defending the realm, but rather to give more satisfaction bonuses among the vassals. And if those demands aren't met, factionalism and a fractioned society ensues. The ally system already provides this (but then also demonstrates how annoying it can be if overdone) and that system could conceivably be expanded on to add more instances where you want to get involved for one reason or another. As it is, it's often far easier to find conflicts where you'd like to get involved but aren't allowed to -- maybe softening up those restrictions alone could give rise to more story or RP reasons to fight.
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Oct 6, 2020 14:18
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For the first time Spain in my game was being conquered by christians - Galicia, Navarre and Asturias really kicking down into the centre of Iberia. Then they did a war for the kingdom and took loads of territory! I was so impressed. And then the king of Galicia (who had absorbed the other two) converted to islam. The religion stuff really needs sorting. Catholics collapsing every single game is just sorta bizarre at this point.
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Oct 6, 2020 14:33
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JustaDamnFool posted:You could have some based on character interactions; declaring war to fight your rival, to free imprisoned family members and friends, or avenge the death of a loved one. The issue with all of those ideas is that we are choosing Casus Belli. Historically of course people fought wars just to prove themselves or to punish their rivals or to destroy trade competitor or to redirect country attention to some sort of external cause. But we're choosing Casus Belli and the name suggest it's a good reason for war. No one had said "I'm starting this war cause I'm a young king and no one will listen to me until I get some respect on the field of battle". You say "I'm defending the rights of my vassal in owning Fokenowhere village" or "We are defending our traders and emissaries who were robbed and disrespected". Imperator Rome has War Goals as additions to CB, but here we don't have anything like that. And it's in the spirit of a game that we obey the proclaimed rules while trying to achieve our own goals. So I doubt we'll have a lot of CBs added (vague diplomatic insult seems the only one you might need. Diplomats can forge it, you get it from events and rivals, winning just gives you prestige and gold), more like a lot of incentives to use old ones.
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Oct 6, 2020 14:52
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Yeah religion needs to be sorted, but I am really starting to hate the "smallpox over the walls" event.  I get it, he threw it first, but at the same time, I can only choose to infect him (and my court), just my court, or my realm capital.
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