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Tighclops posted:bologna Torres 
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Oct 11, 2020 06:02
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MikeJF posted:Yeah, if we'd learned what Krall's deal was much earlier it would've been better. It's an alien stasis device, and since it's alien medical equipment it keeps trying to heal his obviously-deformed body.
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Oct 11, 2020 06:06
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I really enjoyed Beyond for name checking and referencing Enterprise stuff.
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Oct 11, 2020 06:11
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HD DAD posted:I really enjoyed Beyond for name checking and referencing Enterprise stuff.
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Oct 11, 2020 06:12
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FlamingLiberal posted:Getting very close to the end of TOS now I had no idea that the 'musical guest specials' episode types like this existed across a lot of 60s/70s tv series, so this one definitely stands out as feeling weird
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Oct 11, 2020 06:33
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Sir Lemming posted:It makes sense in theory but was not done particularly well. Being able to sense people's emotions was something she just did, always, not some extra credit special ability she could pull out when she needed a boost. (But it was usually written as the latter.) It would be really unnerving to suddenly have that ripped away from you. There's makings of something brilliant in that scene where she tries to explain this to Riker, and how from her perspective the entire crew has just been replaced with emotionless meat-puppets. So not only is she disabled, she's disabled in a way that nobody can understand, and is hideously nightmarish from her perspective.
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Oct 11, 2020 08:45
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Strom Cuzewon posted:There's makings of something brilliant in that scene where she tries to explain this to Riker, and how from her perspective the entire crew has just been replaced with emotionless meat-puppets. So not only is she disabled, she's disabled in a way that nobody can understand, and is hideously nightmarish from her perspective. Data would be super offended, if he were capable of it.
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Oct 11, 2020 09:21
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FlamingLiberal posted:Getting very close to the end of TOS now Spock is sympathetic to the hippies primarily because he’s the character that The Kids liked, and The Kids are hippies nowadays. I think it’s justifiable in character terms, but I doubt that’s the way the writers thought of it. This attempt at relevant messaging is kind of ballsed up by the message being that hippie kids are well-intentioned but dumb, and that Timothy Leary is a big shithead.
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Oct 11, 2020 13:20
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skasion posted:Spock is sympathetic to the hippies primarily because he’s the character that The Kids liked, and The Kids are hippies nowadays. I think it’s justifiable in character terms, but I doubt that’s the way the writers thought of it. This attempt at relevant messaging is kind of ballsed up by the message being that hippie kids are well-intentioned but dumb, and that Timothy Leary is a big shithead. When the hippies take over the auxiliary control room, one of them suggests murdering the crew by cutting off their life support.
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Oct 11, 2020 13:38
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SaintFu posted:When the hippies take over the auxiliary control room, one of them suggests murdering the crew by cutting off their life support. The one who suggests that is the alien ambassador's kid, right? He's the violent one who broke Severin out of jail earlier. I guess you could call him a militant if the characters were more successfully drawn. Anyway, Severin shoots the idea down immediately and they don't entertain it again. Contrast Khan or whichever other villains threaten to wax everyone on board unless they get what they want. These guys aren't monsters, they're just seriously deluded and willing to go to crazy lengths for their beliefs.
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Oct 11, 2020 14:07
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socialsecurity posted:Remember when they brought Burnham to the mess hall for 5 seconds so the rest of the crew could try to rough her up for starting the Klingon civil war (which she didn't) She blame her for the Klingon civil war, they blamed her for starting the Klingon-Federation war. Which, if all you had to go by was Federation press releases, court documents, and Starfleet gossip, why wouldn't you believe she started it?
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Oct 11, 2020 15:06
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FlamingLiberal posted:Getting very close to the end of TOS now "How do you do, fellow hippie kids? We're not herberts; we're hip!". Spock's Brain is a bad episode but it has entertainment value from some of its ridiculous, MST3K-like lines. Way to Eden doesn't even have that. Nobody comes off well in this episode: the space hippies are close minded and dull, Kirk and Chekov are almost fundamentalist about the rules, and even Spock degrades himself with that jam sessions roughly halfway through the episode. It's just an awful episode.
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Oct 11, 2020 15:15
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V-Men posted:She blame her for the Klingon civil war, they blamed her for starting the Klingon-Federation war. Which, if all you had to go by was Federation press releases, court documents, and Starfleet gossip, why wouldn't you believe she started it? That one plot point really bugged me, because she wasn't responsible for starting the war and to any of the bridge crew it should be immediately obvious the fault lies with the Klingons and Burnham only responded to their prior aggression, yet as far as I can recall no one in the show ever accurately describes those events and even Burnham blames herself. Was it meant to be this weird scapegoating where Burnham gets gaslit into accepting blame or were the showrunner just really stupid who didn't understnd the series of event they portrayed in the show?
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Oct 11, 2020 15:47
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multijoe posted:That one plot point really bugged me, because she wasn't responsible for starting the war and to any of the bridge crew it should be immediately obvious the fault lies with the Klingons and Burnham only responded to their prior aggression, yet as far as I can recall no one in the show ever accurately describes those events and even Burnham blames herself. Was it meant to be this weird scapegoating where Burnham gets gaslit into accepting blame or were the showrunner just really stupid who didn't understnd the series of event they portrayed in the show? I really feel like some aspect that made it more directly her fault must have gotten lost in the creation process, but the overall motivation was maintained and nobody really noticed except most of the viewers
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Oct 11, 2020 16:08
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There's also the idea that news tends to get blurred and the specific details of what happened with the mutiny probably weren't publicised, so what a lot of people know is that there was a mutiny and that ship got into battle and now we're at war. Burnham, in the meantime, is so consumed with guilt over the captain's death she doesn't care.
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Oct 11, 2020 16:11
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multijoe posted:That one plot point really bugged me, because she wasn't responsible for starting the war and to any of the bridge crew it should be immediately obvious the fault lies with the Klingons and Burnham only responded to their prior aggression, yet as far as I can recall no one in the show ever accurately describes those events and even Burnham blames herself. Was it meant to be this weird scapegoating where Burnham gets gaslit into accepting blame or were the showrunner just really stupid who didn't understnd the series of event they portrayed in the show? Well, from the bridge crew's perspective, she mutinied and attacked Captain Georgiou and was preparing the ship to attack the Klingons without any provocation and in contradiction to all of Starfleet's standing orders and principals. It's not mentioned, but I suppose Starfleet assumed that her preparations to attack were detected by the Klingons and they responded in imminent self-defense. I suppose after the war ended and Starfleet sort of helped what's her face become high chancellor, the Klingon chancellor may have informed Starfleet Command that T'kuvma intended to attack the Federation all along and Burnham had zero culpability.
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Oct 11, 2020 16:12
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Fuller got the boot during/after production of the pilot in favor of Berg and Harberts, who didn’t know what the gently caress was going on. It is kind of unclear why everyone blames Burnham for everything, apart from because the show is constructed such that everything must be about Burnham. They skip right over her trial in one lazy scene pretty much. It’s believable that Burnham at first could have blamed herself for the war, since she didn’t know that the Klingon leader was always hellbent on it, but I feel like that should have come out somewhere in her conversations with Ash/Voq. Maybe it did and I forgot because discovery is boring
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Oct 11, 2020 16:12
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It's because the basic premise of the first season is that the dark-skinned religious fundamentalists are coming to get us, and the naive liberals in Starfleet don't have the strength to make the Hard Decisions, and then put all the blame on the people who were willing to act to stop the evil foreigners who would destroy our way of life.
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Oct 11, 2020 16:15
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Burnham goes on trial for mutiny, which she absolutely does. She considers herself responsible for the war because she made TKuvma a martyr. I dont buy part two because we're only ever shown the surface of Klingon politics but it is consistent and makes internal sense. Also people who get hurt in a battle might reasonably resent the person who tried to launch a mutiny seconds before the battle started. If you dump the mirror universe plotline from Disco season 1 entirely then there would have been time to really develop the idea of the Klingons as a resurgent but fractious state threat to the Federation.
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Oct 11, 2020 17:03
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skasion posted:The one who suggests that is the alien ambassador's kid, right? He's the violent one who broke Severin out of jail earlier. I guess you could call him a militant if the characters were more successfully drawn. Anyway, Severin shoots the idea down immediately and they don't entertain it again. Contrast Khan or whichever other villains threaten to wax everyone on board unless they get what they want. These guys aren't monsters, they're just seriously deluded and willing to go to crazy lengths for their beliefs.
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Oct 11, 2020 17:17
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Finished season 6 of TNG. The second half I felt dragged a lot but overall I think it’s the best season since 3. We might do DS9 season 1 before finishing or skip back and forth a bit.
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Oct 11, 2020 17:26
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Season 6 is probably my favorite season of TNG. There’s just so much good stuff in there.
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Oct 11, 2020 17:35
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HD DAD posted:Season 6 is probably my favorite season of TNG. There’s just so much good stuff in there. Oh yeah even though I think it starts to drag, the first half is loaded with bangers. My only major issue with it overall is I think they whiffed the Thomas Riker ep when it’s an idea that could have been executed way better.
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Oct 11, 2020 17:47
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The first two episodes of Discovery had starfleets doing obvious war crimes (planting a bomb on corpses) just to add to the list of holy gently caress that show sucked right from the start. Then again it DID start with the "draw a logo in the sand..." scene so gently caress man. It's like they were trying to be terrible
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Oct 11, 2020 18:18
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Discovery started super bad but it’s become decent. It’s like they learned the hard way that it’s not 2009 and we don’t want grimdark hard choices Trek.
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Oct 11, 2020 18:32
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I just watched the pilot again last night bexause the SO wanted to see it, and its ridiculous how much more sense the entire series would have made if Michael would have been successful in firing first at the Klings. The episode goes through pains to set up Michael and T'kuvma as having this narrative symmetry where their past trauamas with one another's cultures are informing their decisions. If the other Klingons weren't on board until Michael fired that torpedo and validated t'Kuv's fear mongering, you would have had this story about two cultures getting sucked into war because of misunderstanding and fear. Instead, as portrayed, the Klingons just come off as wacko caricatures of ISIS written by a Brietbart contributor
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Oct 11, 2020 18:34
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HD DAD posted:It’s like they learned the hard way that it’s not 2009 and we don’t want grimdark hard choices Trek. They haven't learned this at all though? Season 3 is looking just as grimdark hard choices edgy as season 2 or 1 were.
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Oct 11, 2020 18:58
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Drink-Mix Man posted:I just watched the pilot again last night bexause the SO wanted to see it, and its ridiculous how much more sense the entire series would have made if Michael would have been successful in firing first at the Klings. From what I’ve gathered from interviews, this was pretty much what Fuller was intending before he was ousted. Berg and Harberts are hacks and pretty much all of that was lost when they took over.
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Oct 11, 2020 18:58
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skasion posted:Fuller got the boot during/after production of the pilot He got booted long before that. He was fired in September 2016; the show didn't even start principal photography until late January 2017.
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Oct 11, 2020 19:40
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Did the new guys rewrite the pilot or was that all Fuller?
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Oct 11, 2020 20:18
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are there any good behind the scenes articles/etc. on what went on with discovery's production the past two seasons? or is it mostly just we know about the series of showrunner firings but not a lot of other info?
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Oct 11, 2020 20:21
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Drink-Mix Man posted:Did the new guys rewrite the pilot or was that all Fuller? At the time of his firing, Fuller had only turned in the final draft of The Vulcan Hello and a second draft of the second episode. Berg and Harberts wrote episodes three and four as "their" pilot.
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Oct 11, 2020 20:24
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HD DAD posted:Discovery started super bad but it’s become decent. It’s like they learned the hard way that it’s not 2009 and we don’t want grimdark hard choices Trek. We can handle grimdark choices, but it needs to come around episode 0613.
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Oct 11, 2020 23:17
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"Does this Star Trek thing help me aspire to a better humanity within myself and others?" Yes or No? It's a real simple litmus test. Voyager doesn't pass it most of the time.
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Oct 11, 2020 23:32
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Crusader posted:are there any good behind the scenes articles/etc. on what went on with discovery's production the past two seasons? or is it mostly just we know about the series of showrunner firings but not a lot of other info? One of the writers quit the show after he, a black man, was repeatedly told to stop saying the n-word in the writers room, but beyond that CBS has run a super tight ship in terms of making sure behind the scenes machinations and chicanery don’t get out in the public sphere. There’s all these dipshits on 4chan and YouTube and Twitter who claim that their Double Secret Insider Sources have all sorts of dirt about what a chaos disaster show the production of modern Trek is, but they 99.9% of the time turn out to be utter lies designed specifically to honeypot the aforementioned YouTube and Twitter dipshits. Those are fun to read about but it gets super rabbit hole-y and depressing after a while. Otherwise no, sorry.
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Oct 11, 2020 23:37
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nine-gear crow posted:One of the writers quit the show after he, a black man, was repeatedly told to stop saying the n-word in the writers room, but beyond that CBS has run a super tight ship in terms of making sure behind the scenes machinations and chicanery don’t get out in the public sphere. no worries, thanks!
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Oct 11, 2020 23:41
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nine-gear crow posted:There’s all these dipshits on 4chan and YouTube and Twitter who claim that their Double Secret Insider Sources have all sorts of dirt about what a chaos disaster show the production of modern Trek is, but they 99.9% of the time turn out to be utter lies designed specifically to honeypot the aforementioned YouTube and Twitter dipshits. Those are fun to read about but it gets super rabbit hole-y and depressing after a while. In fairness, Discovery in particular seems to be a poster child for Creative Differences just based on Fuller’s dismissal and the showrunner turnover in general. Which isn’t to say that it’s a giant disaster destined for cancellation or anything, but there’s very clear tonal shifts in the show that correspond with those departures. If nothing else, I’m more curious about this coming season just because it’ll (probably) have had a singular cohesive writer’s room/showrunner for the first time in the show’s run.
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Oct 11, 2020 23:44
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Yeah, I’m really curious to see how the show goes under the helm of Michelle Paradise. Part of me hopes she’ll be Discovery’s Michael Piller.
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Oct 11, 2020 23:50
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Big Mean Jerk posted:In fairness, Discovery in particular seems to be a poster child for Creative Differences just based on Fuller’s dismissal and the showrunner turnover in general. Which isn’t to say that it’s a giant disaster destined for cancellation or anything, but there’s very clear tonal shifts in the show that correspond with those departures. If nothing else, I’m more curious about this coming season just because it’ll (probably) have had a singular cohesive writer’s room/showrunner for the first time in the show’s run. And of that I’ve no doubt, I was talking more about the utterly incredulous stuff like story of Alex Kurtzman ripping a 70” plasma screen TV off the wall and throwing it across a conference room in a fit of rage because he was informed that a no-name gimmick YouTuber had made another video trashing Discovery, which totally happened, trust me guys, my sources NEVER lie. poo poo like that.
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Oct 11, 2020 23:58
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nine-gear crow posted:And of that I’ve no doubt, I was talking more about the utterly incredulous stuff like story of Alex Kurtzman ripping a 70” plasma screen TV off the wall and throwing it across a conference room in a fit of rage because he was informed that a no-name gimmick YouTuber had made another video trashing Discovery, which totally happened, trust me guys, my sources NEVER lie. poo poo like that. Oh poo poo lol, I didn’t know Discovery had their own brand of “Kathleen Kennedy firing imminent?!!!!!” dipshits, but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.
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Oct 12, 2020 00:07
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