|
Fedule posted:Oh absolutely, there's a ton of design work that went into the thing, they certainly wern't all twiddling their thumbs for six years. I'm just saying, the concept of the PS5 cooling system, removed from any other aspect of its design, is very simplistic and leans into headroom, while the X's is more tightly integrated and leans into very precise design. it takes more precision in your thermal design to aim for a lower operating temperature while keeping things quiet, and running consoles hot is the exact same design philosophy everyone has used for like 15 years.
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 15:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 23, 2024 21:05 |
|
|
Barudak posted:I realized the best use of the guide me feature is devs putting purposefully incorrect information in there. Okay now imagine what Kojima could do with this kind of feature.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 16:00
|
|
|
the ps4 menu is really really loving slow loading all the info in, so i wonder if the ssd is gonna fix that or am i mistaking that problem for a problem with my wifi and should i plug it into the mains.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 16:00
|
|
|
Game-switching so fast you can be juggling two sick combos in two games at the same time?
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 16:01
|
|
|
Theres no way there isn't quick resume on PS5 given the warning text seems updated.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 16:01
|
|
|
Barudak posted:I realized the best use of the guide me feature is devs putting purposefully incorrect information in there. Let me just open this hint card and see-- *jump scare*
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 16:02
|
|
|
Barudak posted:Theres no way there isn't quick resume on PS5 given the warning text seems updated. Seems like it'd be easy to show off in a UI video then! I'm sure there's some similar functionality in there, but like with BC and other features Sony's just confusing everyone with their bad marketing this cycle
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 16:05
|
|
|
Barudak posted:Theres no way there isn't quick resume on PS5 given the warning text seems updated. The rest mode menu option mentions "games" so it has similar functionality, probably.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 16:05
|
|
|
abraxas posted:Oh well, looks alright I guess, or functional. Can't really say much of anything about it until I try it for myself. The cards could be cool but they could also just fall apart really easily if devs don't support them or don't give a gently caress about em. I'm assuming that's the bare minimum of what most big third-parties would do - I don't think they'll support the activities thing quite as much unless it's just stuff that's already tied to trophy progression flags.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 16:06
|
|
|
sony confused everyone with bc by saying "there is bc" and nothing else to which everyone had the normal reaction of "wow i guess there isnt bc"
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 16:06
|
|
|
They've always confirmed BC but I'm still wondering if boost mode is universal or of they'll only allow the games they test to use it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 16:10
|
|
|
Lobok posted:Game-switching so fast you can be juggling two sick combos in two games at the same time? Now I'm picturing Daigo doing the fighting game equivalent of fighting multiple people at once. Barudak posted:Honestly, if I were a dev, Id shove weird stuff into those. Can't wait to see what Kojima does with them.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 16:14
|
|
|
univbee posted:Can't wait to see what Kojima does with them. The codec frequency is
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 16:18
|
|
|
Digital Foundry's video on the PlayStation 5 interface is available to watch now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTXwhaUWxuk
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 16:18
|
|
|
Fedule posted:Oh absolutely, there's a ton of design work that went into the thing, they certainly wern't all twiddling their thumbs for six years. I'm just saying, the concept of the PS5 cooling system, removed from any other aspect of its design, is very simplistic and leans into headroom, while the X's is more tightly integrated and leans into very precise design. i posted that nikkei article with the interview and asked for someone who knows more japanese to clarify the technical details as there's some interesting parts in there that are new: Wiggly Wayne DDS posted:a japanese interview dropping yesterday with vp of mechanical design yasuhiro ootori (also in the teardown video) on thermal and mechanical considerations: https://xtech.nikkei.com/atcl/nxt/column/18/00001/04715/ Fedule posted:The PS5, in contrast, for all its interesting shape and shiny liquid metal fun, feels more like a desktop PC in that its cooling solution is designed to enable maximum headroom rather than precisely accommodating some thermal limit; it's just the biggest possible heatsink, with the pushiest possible fan, slapped on top of the SoC. Doubtless they're still very mindful of the limitations and the worst-case-scenario operating environment, but like Cerny said their priority was ensuring that it would be consistent in any environment, but because they have that headroom, they can simply use more of it in a bad environment than have to spin up the fans more to get more airflow. This is exactly what most desktop PC builds do that aren't either watercooled or using the stock cooler that ships with your CPU (you fools!); you don't go looking up your CPU's thermal draw, you just slap the biggest loving heatsink that will fit in your case and call it a day. Okay, PS5 has a little more deliberation than that, and still has some bespoke flourishes like the vacuum holes (very underrated feature if you ask me) but you take my meaning, I think. either way they're both going to have to deal with being locked in an inadequate cabinet and never being cleaned out for years. i really don't see the xbox's design as user-servicable, coupled with its focus on footprint over aesthetics or thermal efficiency are why i'm really giving it the side eye. i am v much looking forward to competent analysis of these machines post-launch in different environments though Wiggly Wayne DDS fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Oct 15, 2020 |
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 16:19
|
|
|
univbee posted:Now I'm picturing Daigo doing the fighting game equivalent of fighting multiple people at once. I suppose the same thing could just be done with video editing but it'd be fun to find the same locations in Spider-Man Remastered and Miles Morales and fight in both to test the switch function and speed. One in sunny skies and the other at night in winter.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 16:22
|
|
|
I just watched the UI video and wow. I've been saying for like a year I wish there was Discord on PS4 somehow, Parties on PS5 come awfully close.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 16:24
|
|
|
Sony must intentionally not clarify stuff because it drives brand engagement.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 16:30
|
|
|
Stux posted:sony confused everyone with bc by saying "there is bc" and nothing else to which everyone had the normal reaction of "wow i guess there isnt bc" lmao the BC posting in the PS4 thread was, as someone who only frequents a few threads, truly some of the worst posting I’ve ever seen on SA
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 16:38
|
|
|
Wiggly Wayne DDS posted:i know where you're coming from but i'm still pessimistic about the xbox's thermal design choices. there's is a very rough thermals video out today (caveat they really don't know how to use a db meter and seem to limit themselves to 5-10 minute soaks), but there are only series x enhanced titles out not native games so it's peaking at mid-50C and that's where the fan will start to ramp up. until a native title that pushes the gpu comes out i don't think we're getting a good comparison outside of multi-plats Well. There's the caveat that I make no claims regarding the X's success with its plan. Maybe they ballsed it up. I'm just saying, if it fails, that's what they're failing at. Wiggly Wayne DDS posted:i posted that nikkei article with the interview and asked for someone who knows more a japanese to clarify the technical details as there's some interesting parts in there that are new: What I'm getting at with the desktop comparison is that desktop CPU coolers are built around headroom as a rule, because there are so many CPUs at so many specs that the optimal strategy, both for manufacturers and for builders, is to make sure there's always going to be headroom to lean into, rather than to try and figure out any working definition of how much cooling is "enough". To be even blunter, I think the X design team thought "how small dare we make it" while the PS5 team thought "how big can we make it". The details in that nikkei article are also cool as gently caress (lol). I'm never going to say that there's not impressive, innovative tech work going on inside the PS5. I'm just saying it seems to me like everything the PS5 team did was a matter of maximising the amount of cooling stuff they could cram into the form factor, while everythign the X team did was a matter of minimising how much they had to. Similarly, Stux posted:it takes more precision in your thermal design to aim for a lower operating temperature while keeping things quiet, and running consoles hot is the exact same design philosophy everyone has used for like 15 years. Yes, consoles have typically been designed to be small and run hot (original Xbone excepted). They go to lengths to get the cooling systems operating to very tight specs, typically with low headroom. In other words, it is typical for these systems to be unconventional compared to most PCs. The PS5 is notable for having a design that seems (to me, anyway) to be focused on maximising headroom; in other words, it is unusual that it has this in common with PCs. But, respectfully, it does not take precision to make a cooler, quieter, system; you just make it bigger.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 16:44
|
|
|
hatty posted:They've always confirmed BC but I'm still wondering if boost mode is universal or of they'll only allow the games they test to use it. Boost mode settings: auto, off, on (auto chooses based on the titles that Sony tested)
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 16:45
|
|
|
Fedule posted:Well. There's the caveat that I make no claims regarding the X's success with its plan. Maybe they ballsed it up. I'm just saying, if it fails, that's what they're failing at. In this case it seems like "simpler" is also, probably, better. There's a tradeoff on the size but it also means manufacturing defects and failure rates are likely lower
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 16:48
|
|
|
Oh we going "on" until the console locks up
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 16:51
|
|
|
morestuff posted:In this case it seems like "simpler" is also, probably, better. There's a tradeoff on the size but it also means manufacturing defects and failure rates are likely lower I'm inclined to agree and frankly have always wished Sony would have just released a gigantic but silent PS4. Looks like I finally got my wish.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 16:53
|
|
|
'So, here we are joining a game, super fast to showcase Sony's awesome SSD tech, but we will fast forward the loading screens anyway'.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 17:02
|
|
|
Fedule posted:Yes, consoles have typically been designed to be small and run hot (original Xbone excepted). They go to lengths to get the cooling systems operating to very tight specs, typically with low headroom. In other words, it is typical for these systems to be unconventional compared to most PCs. The PS5 is notable for having a design that seems (to me, anyway) to be focused on maximising headroom; in other words, it is unusual that it has this in common with PCs. except PCs also often dont focus on maximising headroom. most gaming PCs under load push up to pretty high temps as well. most efforts to increase cooling further are done by people who then push the thermals back up higher to get more performance. this has been especially true for the last decade where CPUs turbo up as much as possible, and before that going back into stuff like the p4 era you certainly werent getting thermal "headroom" on your builds. however even if what you were saying was completely true, a console breaking from what is traditional console design in this way is unconventional. this would be like saying a passively cooled pc isnt unconventional because an iphone doesnt have a fan. that also isnt true and we have an extremely clear example in the last generation launch models. the ps4 despite being smaller and more powerful, and having its psu internally installed, still managed to run cooler than the much larger xbox one because it had a better thermal design. we also have a a second example in the mid gen refreshes in the opposite direction with the one x being smaller and more powerful than the ps4 pro, which is larger and also louder. it does take precision in your design to make a system which runs both cooler and quieter.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 17:03
|
|
|
henpod posted:'So, here we are joining a game, super fast to showcase Sony's awesome SSD tech, but we will fast forward the loading screens anyway'. i think they fastforwarded the parts with like account log in, character customization, matchmaking, etc
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 17:04
|
|
|
I really dont like that UI. it's messy and there are too many ways to reach the same content. it's got a shitload of problems that all revolve around it being over designed by a room full of people with equally valid opinions and no single vision. i shared it with my fiancee who works in UI design and she thinks it's one of the worst things she's ever seen in a mass market product. I was curious who worked on this and what their internal UI situation is like and I think it's also safe to assume that sony feel the same way and we can expect a redesign... they are literally hiring for the most senior UI designer in playstation at the moment. It does mention cloud based so could be starting with psnow, but this is a loving huge department they're hiring for that wouldn't need this kind of person if they already had a UI leader they were happy with. https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/senior-director-playstation-design-at-playstation-2155394454/ They wouldn't have used some of the phrasing they did here if they were looking to hire someone to maintain the UI they already have. the responsibilities section is basically 'you will be the captain of this entire ship, answering only to senior management'
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 17:07
|
|
|
like we cannot pretend gaming PCs go for headroom when the top end intel cpus have a special turbo setting they can only maintain for 60 seconds bcos of the thermal issues lol
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 17:10
|
|
|
Card based UIs are some Google-rear end poo poo 
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 17:10
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/ZhugeEX/status/1316736309772288003?s=20
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 17:14
|
|
|
The problem with features like this is that they will require that the developers implement it into their games, so it's going to be used for launch titles and then never used again.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 17:16
|
|
|
ui seems fine i guess. feel like the actual use cases where i am frustrated by an objective enough to want to look up a video for it and it happening to be in a game where the developer bothered to support that are going to be pretty rare but w/e. persistent parties is a good idea i will never use because i dont regularly play with a specific group. feel like the most relevant thing will be the ps store being built into the ui rather than an app so they will probably try to sell me things everywhere
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 17:18
|
|
|
your concept of thermal headroom and how having more seems to be a failure of design is rather bizarre. we're effectively contrasting a min-spec thermal design against a max-spec (or near enough) imo. there's a reason older consoles went with the minimal approach: reduce bill of materials and they weren't putting the components to their limits and conservatively clocked them lower. this has the upsides of reducing power draw and heat generated and gave them technical headroom for slimmer versions as technology and manufacturing yields improvedFedule posted:To be even blunter, I think the X design team thought "how small dare we make it" while the PS5 team thought "how big can we make it". quote:But, respectfully, it does not take precision to make a cooler, quieter, system; you just make it bigger. as a quick example let's take the 'simple' case fan, which are effectively 120mm and 140mm nowadays. in the past companies attempted to go with the naïve "just make it bigger" and went with 200mm, but that came with requiring more power, requiring tighter tolerances on manufacturing (or the fan would literally shatter with the strain on it), and ultimately not improve thermals or noise. the major players in the market have been optimising 140mm fin design and improving thermal performance while reducing the noise it creates. i see a similar issue with the consoles you could go with the big box fan design of the xbox series x, or you could tailor a thicker fan for the ps5 and integrate the system to make it all perform more effectively. not that i expect the xbox's fan to shatter but there's a lot more to it than 'a fan' the heatsink the ps5 has designed for it isn't "just make it as big as possible", it's pretty targeted at 3 areas which the article talks about and otherwise would be a massive waste of resources that could go into the rest of the system. there was a lot of backroom chat on sony spending significantly more than microsoft on their thermal design, and it shows in the details imo. i'm still disappointed at how barebones the series x's design is throughout, even the ui hasn't really changed I said come in! posted:The problem with features like this is that they will require that the developers implement it into their games, so it's going to be used for launch titles and then never used again.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 17:23
|
|
|
Wiggly Wayne DDS posted:ya i see it lasting a year and being forgotten despite how useful it'd be. or it'll be implemented for game launch and abandoned for post-launch content/patches The community feature I like the best is the hint system where you can watch walkthroughs and guides for the game you're playing, but unless players can submit their own videos to it, it's not very useful.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 17:25
|
|
|
No, they said they want to cut down on unnecessarily long garbage videos
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 17:26
|
|
|
I said come in! posted:The problem with features like this is that they will require that the developers implement it into their games, so it's going to be used for launch titles and then never used again. Unless Sony mandates it, but I can't see that happening.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 17:28
|
|
|
That heatsink is so big, you could bathe a baby in it!!!!!!!
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 17:30
|
|
|
Heatsink? More like HeatSUNK! Wrap it up sonyailures.
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 17:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 23, 2024 21:05 |
|
|
VideoGames posted:Heatsink? More like HeatSUNK! Wrap it up sonyailures. I would also have accepted "HeatStink"
|
|
#
?
Oct 15, 2020 17:34
|
|