Lockback posted:I'm assuming you're concerned about heat in your system as a whole or JUST die heat? Yeah heat in the system. I've noticed recently that the FTW3 is pumping out an insane amount of heat. Under load it hits around 60C-70C which is about normal.
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Oct 16, 2020 19:26
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CyberPingu posted:This may seem like a dumb question so sorry about that. if you cap the framerate or reduce the power limit, and let the 3070 clock down then yes, it'll be much more efficient for the same fps if you mean comparing at iso power (let both the 3070 and 1080 Ti run at say 250W) then no the 3070 will actually be harder to cool (assuming you put the same cooler on both). You'd need a better cooler or a higher fan speed, or just accept higher temps (it's not really a problem, you're not going to damage the silicon). (this is one of the reasons cooler sizes have crept upwards over the years for a given TDP, on 28nm and above there were many cards in the 250W range (980 Ti, aftermarket 290X, etc) with "normal" 2-slot standard-length coolers but now everybody is using monster 2.5 and 3 slot coolers with long form factors for that same 250W budget. That's because you're pushing the same amount of power through a smaller die size, so thermal density is way up on these modern super-small nodes and you need a more efficient cooler to keep the same temperatures.) Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Oct 16, 2020 |
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Oct 16, 2020 19:26
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Paul MaudDib posted:if you cap the framerate or reduce the power limit, and let the 3070 clock down then yes, it'll be much more efficient for the same fps Yeah by same load I should have been a bit more specific. Say running the same game on the same settings. But the other thing is I'm scaling down to a SFF case and worried the large GPU in that might cause issues with thermals too.
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Oct 16, 2020 19:29
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CyberPingu posted:Yeah heat in the system. I've noticed recently that the FTW3 is pumping out an insane amount of heat. Under load it hits around 60C-70C which is about normal. The the die temp is good because your pushing a ton of heat into your case (which is what you want to do!). There's a lot of "depends" here, but in general the 3070 won't have to produce as much heat for the same workload, and if it is pegged it won't be producing as much heat. As Paul said, you'll also be able to have more options to undervolt with a 3070 to get it even less power (heat) hungry. Of course, this is all based on what we know about the 3070 right now.
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Oct 16, 2020 19:31
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Paul MaudDib posted:if you cap the framerate or reduce the power limit, and let the 3070 clock down then yes, it'll be much more efficient for the same fps Edit, beaten: Didn't catch your edit referencing die size.
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Oct 16, 2020 19:33
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CyberPingu posted:Yeah by same load I should have been a bit more specific. again, if you just let the GPU run free then it will push as many fps as possible at its normal power setting. You can cap it with a framerate cap or a power limit and then it will give you the same amount of fps but at less power (easier to cool). SFF is tricky and frankly there isn't any "one size fits all" advice, it really comes down to the exact case and the exact dimensions of the cooler. Up to a point, the larger cooler is better, once you pass the point where airflow becomes a problem then it gets worse. But ideally the GPU would be facing a side panel or something where it can push heat out easily. The flow-through/partial-blower style cooler on the FE is also potentially interesting because it moves air in different ways than the "standard" axial cooler. And also a lot of Ampere coolers are following that design cue and going to flow-through coolers as well, that style is generally more efficient imo. I edited my previous post but it's also not a crisis if it runs a little hot as long as it's not throttling too hard. There is, unfortunately, no free lunch in SFF, it's "small size, quiet cooler, runs cool, pick any two". You can't escape the thermodynamics here, you can either move air fast+loud, or you can make the heatsink bigger, or you can let it run hot. Keep your expectations reasonable, if you can keep it to low 80s at an acceptable noise level then don't worry too much. If you are specifically choosing between a 1080 Ti and a 3070 because they're in similar price ranges I would go with the 3070 for sure, it will be more efficient and you will have performance headroom to underclock it and get power down below what the 1080 Ti can do. As far as "which one", I would take a look and see what other people are reporting with your particular case with the FE cooler and any others you are looking at in particular. Unfortunately that will take time as most people don't have the new cards yet. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Oct 16, 2020 |
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Oct 16, 2020 19:40
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CyberPingu posted:Yeah by same load I should have been a bit more specific. If you're running the same workload (same game at same settings locked at the same framerate) then yeah, Ampere will put out less heat compared to your current card. But most people obviously don't do that--they let the new card run at higher settings, faster framerate, whatever, to take advantage of the fact that the card is more powerful and can do more work at the same TDP as older cards. If you're just looking for the same performance profile at lower heat, then getting Ampere and using framerate limiters would be a good (albeit expensive) option. If you're looking for SFF advice, there's a thread specifically for that where people can give you recommendations based on your specific case and situation. In general, though, if you've got mesh / well ventilated sides, you want to biggest cooler you can fit in there, since that'll help keep the noise down a bit. Big vs small card, either way you're still going to be trying to remove the same amount of heat from the card and then from the case, and generally bigger cooling solutions can do that with less noise.
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Oct 16, 2020 19:47
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Ok cool, thanks for the advice. If I can I'd rather not replace the Ti as it's still kicking lumps out of everything I throw at it. Maybe I need to work on heat displacement more
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Oct 16, 2020 19:55
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I have a 5700XT, is the RTX 3070 likely to be a big upgrade? I'm at that point of needing to upgrade the whole system since the i5 4570 is showing its age, trying to decide if I should get a new gpu for dlss etc...
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Oct 16, 2020 20:27
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sebmojo posted:I have a 5700XT, is the RTX 3070 likely to be a big upgrade? I'm at that point of needing to upgrade the whole system since the i5 4570 is showing its age, trying to decide if I should get a new gpu for dlss etc... It should be a decent jump. If the games you play use DLSS 2.0 then it’ll be a big jump. And Ray Tracing is great, if it really turns out to be as fast as a 2080 Ti you’ll be rayracin’ no problem. Edit: that said, you won’t be able to buy one, so be happy your 5700XT is a good card cause you’ll be milking it for a while longer. Go ahead and build your new rig and pretend no new GPU’s have been released until you can finally buy one without it bringing stress to your life. Animal fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Oct 16, 2020 |
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Oct 16, 2020 20:29
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Wait for a game you want to use with DLSS to come out and see what prices are like then? There’s no need to upgrade your system as a whole and removing drivers from removed cards is a small hassle not an insurmountable achievement nowadays.
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Oct 16, 2020 20:33
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I’ve seen people on the 3080 notification discord chat say how they have gone 3 night in a row without proper sleep just trying to get a card. How depressed they are about the whole thing. Really? What’s the point of a hobby if it does to opposite of relaxation?
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Oct 16, 2020 20:33
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kaschei posted:Wait for a game you want to use with DLSS to come out and see what prices are like then? There’s no need to upgrade your system as a whole and removing drivers from removed cards is a small hassle not an insurmountable achievement nowadays. Yeah I will do this. The cpu upgrade is a separate issue, and if I'm honest the 4570 is still basically (amazingly) fine.
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Oct 16, 2020 20:35
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My order from cdw is looking better and better. 100 dollars on top of msrp for guaranteed delivery in Dec? Sounds like a plan.
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Oct 16, 2020 20:44
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Have the EVGA Hybrid cards historically been available in the Step-Up program? I'm debating buying a 2060 as a stand-in since I need to go to Microcenter this evening anyways and it's still significantly faster than my 970. It won't necessarily stop me because they've said they're going to sell the kits as upgrades for air-cooled models and that third party adapter is a thing too, but if they've previously offered the hybrid in step-up that'd certainly be one more point in favor of this plan.
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Oct 16, 2020 20:51
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Impermanent posted:My order from cdw is looking better and better. 100 dollars on top of msrp for guaranteed delivery in Dec? Sounds like a plan.
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Oct 16, 2020 20:56
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kaschei posted:Wait for a game you want to use with DLSS to come out and see what prices are like then? There’s no need to upgrade your system as a whole and removing drivers from removed cards is a small hassle not an insurmountable achievement nowadays. I thought DDU made the driver-removal process pretty simple now. Unless you're referencing the more extreme "boot to safe mode - run DDU - reboot - install new drivers" approach to using DDU as the small hassle part.
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Oct 16, 2020 20:58
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https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3944318 I made a dumb garbage thread. So is anyone seriously thinking Big Navi will compete with the 3080 at the least? Most people I talk to seem to think it'll probably be competitive with the 3070 if not possibly better, but probably won't beat out the 3080.
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Oct 16, 2020 21:06
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Fuzz posted:So is anyone seriously thinking Big Navi will compete with the 3080 at the least? Most people I talk to seem to think it'll probably be competitive with the 3070 if not possibly better, but probably won't beat out the 3080. I think it's possible, the numbers they showed off at the Ryzen 5000 reveal event were a few % short of the 3080 and there are rumors that it wasn't the top SKU shown.
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Oct 16, 2020 21:11
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In pure rasterization in current titles that don't scale particularly well on Ampere? Maybe. In raytracing, upsampling, or (unless Nvidia has made a huge architectural blunder) scaling into future games? Nope. My expectation is that in a few months AMD's best GPU proposition is significantly worse than the 5700/XT were when they were new. They are too far behind architecturally and haven't shown any sign of innovation since loving 2013, Nvidia just made another leap forward, and their process advantage has shrunk.
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Oct 16, 2020 21:13
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It feels like I am just giving a NVidia customer service rep a hard time but they said quote:We have received an official update stating that the Founder's edition cards will be available only through BestBuy as of now: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/geforce-graphics-cards/5/402196/nvidia-store-update-geforce-rtx-3080-and-rtx-3090-/
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Oct 16, 2020 21:30
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Fuzz posted:So is anyone seriously thinking Big Navi will compete with the 3080 at the least? Most people I talk to seem to think it'll probably be competitive with the 3070 if not possibly better, but probably won't beat out the 3080. Depends on what exactly you intend with the word "compete". Will it compete on performance? Maybe, as another poster said the teaser AMD revealed about it puts it within a few percentage points of the 3080 and that may be good enough for a lot of buyers, especially those who are desperate to get a new video card and are stymied by the 3080 shortage. Of course, will it have raytracing? Compatibility with DLSS? I don't know, and these will matter in the raw performance competition. But there's another way to think of this: Will it compete in terms of sales, even if it performs a bit worse than the 3080? I'd say the answer is extremely likely "yes", given the record high demand for GPUs we're seeing right now. AMD has been competing fiercely on price and GPU consumers are extremely price conscious. It's easy to forget when you're spending time in enthusiast spaces like this thread, but far and away the bestselling GPUs are inexpensive models (think: xx50 and xx60 cards from Nvidia, like the 1060). Check out the Steam Hardware Survey Results for GPUs to have this point illustrated. The top five cards are: 1) 1060 2) 1050 Ti 3) 1050 4) 1070 5) 1650 The 1080 Ti doesn't appear until FIFTEENTH place on the list. The highest placed 20xx series card is the 2060 at 6th place. The 2080 Ti is 23rd, behind the 2060, 2070 Super, 2070, 2060 Super, and 2080 - of 20xx series cards, the 2080 Ti has the second lowest result ahead of only the 2080 Super. So, even if AMD can't compete at the very highest end for raw computing power, if they're able to deliver cards that are as powerful as the Nvidia's xx70s, xx60s, and xx50s, and at the same or a lower price, they're probably going to sell well. Chimp_On_Stilts fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Oct 16, 2020 |
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Oct 16, 2020 21:31
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Tbf. The Ti series never sells particularly well do they? They also get discontinued before the other lines iirc. Like, the 1080Ti was the last "affordable" Ti series for most people. Generally your average gamer is going to get the 70 series.
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Oct 16, 2020 21:50
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Animal posted:I’ve seen people on the 3080 notification discord chat say how they have gone 3 night in a row without proper sleep just trying to get a card. How depressed they are about the whole thing. Really? What’s the point of a hobby if it does to opposite of relaxation? Because the payoff is worth it (50+ hours modding Skyrim and trying to figure out what mod is crashing it)
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Oct 16, 2020 22:00
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wolrah posted:Have the EVGA Hybrid cards historically been available in the Step-Up program? No. You can look at their current list of options for what you can step up to, and see that they didn't offer it for Turing: you got options of a single SKU of the 2080, the 2080 Super, and the 2080 Ti. Now they've added single SKU options for the 3080 and the 3090 (FTW3 Ultra in both cases). I would not expect a hybrid option to be added. EK and some others are already making full coverage blocks for various cards, so it'd be reasonable to expect they'll have ones for EVGA cards by the time you get a step up opportunity.
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Oct 16, 2020 22:00
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I found this at Ocean State Job Lot is it any good? I have a 1080 and this one has a bigger number so I assume it's better right?
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Oct 16, 2020 22:02
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No, thats old junk. Probably an AGP card. I collect old stuff, so you willing to sell it to me for 50 bucks? Edit: I'll trade you a Voodoo5. SPACE HOMOS fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Oct 16, 2020 |
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Oct 16, 2020 22:07
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Duck and Cover posted:I found this at Ocean State Job Lot is it any good? I have a 1080 and this one has a bigger number so I assume it's better right? Those are know to have bad caps. You should send it to me so I can fix it. I'll even pay for shipping, cuz I'm that cool a guy.
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Oct 16, 2020 22:07
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SPACE HOMOS posted:No, thats old junk. Probably an AGP card. I collect old stuff, so you willing to sell it to me for 50 bucks? Eh just go buy one yourself they had like a shelf full of them. Duck and Cover fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Oct 16, 2020 |
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Oct 16, 2020 22:09
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Duck and Cover posted:I found this at Ocean State Job Lot is it any good? I have a 1080 and this one has a bigger number so I assume it's better right? It's fake, you can tell because the 8 is printed upside down You should give it to me for proper disposal
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Oct 16, 2020 22:12
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Duck and Cover posted:Eh just go but one yourself they had like a shelf full of them. I would actually go get a zipcar sub and drive to the one in Edison (1.5 hour drive) if this were even remotely true. You're a bastard for toying with my heart strings.
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Oct 16, 2020 22:12
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Ok, I was waiting on the 3070, but I take it that the 30** series is a dumpster fire launch. Current system has some age and I do want to replace the video card. Hieronymous Alloy posted:
Based on advice last month, I was waiting on the 3070, but I take it there's news about the AMD cards now? Are they good or bad? Given the freesync monitor, should I wait on an AMD card or try to put myself through whatever hell it takes to get a 3070?
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Oct 16, 2020 22:13
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Everyone is understandably frustrated about the current RTX crisis but if you take a step back and think, it’s awesome. You’ll eventually have your stupid video card toy. But so many people buying high end GPU’s will put pressure on PC game developers to put work into stuff like ray tracing and AI upsampling. I hope the average gaming rig on the Steam survey shifts from the 1060 to a 3070/AMD equivalent.
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Oct 16, 2020 22:21
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Animal posted:But so many people buying high end GPU’s will put pressure on PC game developers to put work into stuff like ray tracing and AI upsampling. I hope the average gaming rig on the Steam survey shifts from the 1060 to a 3070/AMD equivalent. Maybe, or maybe they will happily continue to crank out lovely ports because people's computers can power through.
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Oct 16, 2020 22:23
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Based on advice last month, I was waiting on the 3070, but I take it there's news about the AMD cards now? Are they good or bad? Given the freesync monitor, should I wait on an AMD card or try to put myself through whatever hell it takes to get a 3070? So NVidia has claimed that they pushed back the 3070 launch to the end of the month to "build up inventory." Up to you whether you want to believe that, but there's at least a potential to be able to get one if you're ready for it at launch. If you miss that first batch, though, you're likely gonna be waiting a bit. As for AMD, no one really knows. They are likely to be competitive in a general sense, in that their raw horsepower should at least come somewhat close to the 3080, and thus they'll at least have one or two cards around the 3070 performance level. They will likely fall behind on RT workloads, and have no DLSS answer, so for games where that's an option they'll be considerably behind. However, that list of games (while growing) is small. If you're the type to hold on to a card for 5 years, I'd be very leery of picking up a Radeon at this point. If you're not against grabbing a card "for now" and then maybe picking up a new card in another year or so, it'd likely be a more reasonable plan. The real wildcard for AMD isn't performance (it'll be perfectly adequate at the xx70 and below level), but the price. If AMD can drop something that competes more or less on par with the 3070 in non-DLSS games, and can do it for $400 instead of the 3070's $500, and actually have cards on the shelves, it'd be hard to really sell people on trying to fight for a 3070. You should check out what all your monitor actually supports--many Freesync monitors also support *sync on NVidia now, though not all of them do so.
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Oct 16, 2020 22:25
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Inept posted:Maybe, or maybe they will happily continue to crank out lovely ports because people's computers can power through. We’re lucky that this upswing in the average GPU will coincide with a new generation of consoles that are glorified low budget gaming PC’s with the same Dx12 features as these new GPU’s so it’ll be easy to scale those ports up.
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Oct 16, 2020 22:26
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Chimp_On_Stilts posted:So, even if AMD can't compete at the very highest end for raw computing power, if they're able to deliver cards that are as powerful as the Nvidia's xx70s, xx60s, and xx50s, and at the same or a lower price, they're probably going to sell well. This would be true if nVidia didn't have RTX, AMD cannot match the performance of even a 2070 in raytracing using anything they've released so far. They really need to have something they've been hiding for RDNA2. Raytracing in games looks absolutely incredible, a major change in quality above just some rasterization improvements, and if it gets down to $200 cards (imagine a 2650/2660) AMD is toast.
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Oct 16, 2020 22:30
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Are amd gpu drivers still hot garbage or is that a meme?
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Oct 16, 2020 22:32
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Duck and Cover posted:I found this at Ocean State Job Lot is it any good? I have a 1080 and this one has a bigger number so I assume it's better right? Please, please tell me you're lying about Ocean State Job Lot, lol
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Oct 16, 2020 22:35
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Fuzz posted:I would actually go get a zipcar sub and drive to the one in Edison (1.5 hour drive) if this were even remotely true. You're a bastard for toying with my heart strings. I considered claiming Walmart but figured that was too likely a possibility and someone might actually do it. Zero VGS posted:Please, please tell me you're lying about Ocean State Job Lot, lol I am. It was Best Buy like a week a go online.
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Oct 16, 2020 22:37
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