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MasterBuilder posted:Are amd gpu drivers still hot garbage or is that a meme? The ones right now are solidly ok, but it's taken many months to get to that point. The issue people are worried about is that RDNA2 has a lot of room and expectations for Day 1 issues, and AMD has not been great about addressing issues in what would be considered a timely manner. So there's reason to presume that they'll be just fine for 90% of people, but that unlucky 10% is gonna be SOL for longer than they'd like. Or they could be entirely fine. No one's gonna really know until launch day.
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Oct 16, 2020 22:37
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hobbesmaster posted:This would be true if nVidia didn't have RTX, AMD cannot match the performance of even a 2070 in raytracing using anything they've released so far. They really need to have something they've been hiding for RDNA2. Not sure I agree. First, most games don't support RTX. Second, it will take years for support to filter into more games. During this time, AMD can work on supporting it better. Third, huge numbers of people play PC games but aren't in the ultra-enthusiast category. These people may simply not care (or even notice) if they can't have RTX. You are absolutely right about the ultra enthusiast market, however. If we assume AMD's raytracing will suck, that group will gravitate heavily toward Nvidia cards.
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Oct 16, 2020 22:37
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Chimp_On_Stilts posted:First, most games don't support RTX. Thats why Fortnite was such a huge get, you don't need "most games" you need "most gamers"
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Oct 16, 2020 22:39
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Duck and Cover posted:I am. It was Best Buy like a week a go online. OK, Nvidia sending all their FE cards to Ocean State Job Lot by mistake would be extremely 2020 so I just gotta make sure. I had my Crazy Bucks ready to go too.
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Oct 16, 2020 22:39
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Chimp_On_Stilts posted:Not sure I agree. Yeah, I tend to agree here. The $400-$500 market is the inflection point: above that you're interested enough that you probably care about RT capabilities, or soon will. But below that? I'm not sure how much someone with a price cap of $300 is really going to care about RT capabilities given that most games don't support it, and it's still gonna really hurt performance. Like if you can get a $300 3060 with 1,000 performance points, or a $300 R6600 with 1,200 performance points, the Radeon would be the better choice for a lot of people.
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Oct 16, 2020 22:40
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Fortnite and Minecraft got great ray tracing implementations. Checkmate.
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Oct 16, 2020 22:41
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Animal posted:Fortnite and Minecraft got great ray tracing implementations. Haven't seen the Fortnite performance metrics, but Minecraft RTX at 1080p still takes a 2080S/Ti for 60FPS. So that's still 3070 $500 territory. So at the $300 level, even NVidia cards aren't gonna be performing well, and if AMD's offerings have better raster performance at that price point, the actual end difference might not be particularly stark. All conjecture, though, until we see the cards. In the meantime RTX and DLSS are swank as hell and I am grumpy that my 1080Ti doesn't do them.
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Oct 16, 2020 22:46
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DrDork posted:Haven't seen the Fortnite performance metrics, but Minecraft RTX at 1080p still takes a 2080S/Ti for 60FPS. So that's still 3070 $500 territory. So at the $300 level, even NVidia cards aren't gonna be performing well, and if AMD's offerings have better raster performance at that price point, the actual end difference might not be particularly stark. Minecraft has gotten performance patches that make ray tracing way more playable than when Digital Foundry made that video that you saw. And it looks amazing. It looks way better than that game deserves to look. Also remember that most kids don’t care about 60fps but when they see the game run ray traced they won’t be able to bring themselves to turn it off. When I was 15 years old I was trash I didn’t care if games ran at 25fps as long as they looked amazing and if the teenagers I have met recently are all the same things haven’t changed. Animal fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Oct 16, 2020 |
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Oct 16, 2020 22:48
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hobbesmaster posted:Thats why Fortnite was such a huge get, you don't need "most games" you need "most gamers" Well, if Nvidia is going to smoke AMD due to RTX, we need two things: 1) Large numbers of people playing games that support RTX - Fortnite obviously brings in a huge audience 2) Those same players need to want RTX enough to be willing to spend several hundred dollars to get it - Fortnite's audience is so big that it encompasses a lot more than just the core ultra enthusiast market of people who will spend hundreds of dollars to turn on the latest graphical features, especially given that existing Fortnite players can continue to play without spending any additional money. Will some Fortnite players upgrade to add RTX? Sure, but I would also speculate that this will be a small minority of the existing playerbase. I doubt Fortnite and a few other games will be sufficient to drive so much demand for RTX that AMD gets smoked. RTX is definitely good for Nvidia's sales. As long as AMD can't compete here, Nvidia will rule the high end market. But the market for less expensive and less graphically impressive systems is much larger than the market for the absolute top end systems, so even without RTX AMD still has a sizeable target market of potential buyers. Chimp_On_Stilts fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Oct 16, 2020 |
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Oct 16, 2020 22:49
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Guys you're missing the big thing here. Fortnite gets lots of people using RTX, true, but RTX being a UE4 feature means a whole ton of devs who were going to use UnrealEngine anyway will have access to it. That's the huge thing down the line. Ease of implementation is key and it being rolled into one of the biggest, most commonly licensed engines will see a lot more games adopt it.
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Oct 16, 2020 22:53
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If anyone in here has an EVGA XC3 3080 with Precision X1 installed, can you crank the fans to manual 100% and let me know what RPMs you see? It's telling me 3300 rpm which seems high. Please and thank you.
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Oct 16, 2020 22:54
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AirRaid posted:Guys you're missing the big thing here. Ummm they have had access to it for a couple years now. Ue4 had it as a feature rather early
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Oct 16, 2020 22:56
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Inept posted:Maybe, or maybe they will happily continue to crank out lovely ports because people's computers can power through. It's not perfect by any means, but PC ports of console games are in a better state today than they've ever been, both in quality and availability. Around PS2 gen, maybe 1/5-1/10 of notable games got a port and it was a coinflip whether you would even get a functional product or not. It just keeps getting worse the further back you go.
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Oct 16, 2020 22:58
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Twibbit posted:Ummm they have had access to it for a couple years now. Ue4 had it as a feature rather early Yeah but it being used in Fortnite puts pressure on other devs to use it on their games. With a large user base getting a taste of the drug it goes from a niche option to a requirement if marketing wants to brag about your game’s visuals.
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Oct 16, 2020 23:01
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The new CoD having RTX and DlSS seems like it might be a big deal as well Also I'm wondering how much the 3060s bringing both those features for (relatively) cheap will change the things
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Oct 16, 2020 23:01
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Twibbit posted:Ummm they have had access to it for a couple years now. Ue4 had it as a feature rather early Sure but this point still stands, Chimp_On_Stilts posted:Second, it will take years for support to filter into more games. During this time, AMD can work on supporting it better. And now that there is a chunk enough of the market (still a tiny percentage overall I know) that can run it reasonably well, and it's becoming more of a big ticket selling point, the ease of implementation is still super important.
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Oct 16, 2020 23:03
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Level 1 Thief posted:It's not perfect by any means, but PC ports of console games are in a better state today than they've ever been, both in quality and availability. Around PS2 gen, maybe 1/5-1/10 of notable games got a port and it was a coinflip whether you would even get a functional product or not. It just keeps getting worse the further back you go. Ports got much better in the PS4/XBone generation because they are PC’s, whereas the PS4 was an architectural nightmare to port from. That’s why you are unexpected ports like Horizon and Death Stranding. The PS5 and XBoxX are gonna be even more PC. That combined with a large portion of PC gamers getting new GPU’s means that PC gaming is gonna be awesome this next generation.
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Oct 16, 2020 23:04
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Are they going to make a 3080 with the 8 the right way up?
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Oct 16, 2020 23:10
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Rexxed posted:Are they going to make a 3080 with the 8 the right way up? The rog strix is the correct 3080 Nvidia doing sloppy work  edit: I hate whoever noticed this and told everyone.
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Oct 16, 2020 23:25
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Are people (bots) still getting this card for MSRP in NA / The West? Round my neck of the woods (SEA) any stock that you can find is priced around 900 usd or more. I know in Hong Kong the largest pc hardware retailer sold only 2 3080s at MSRP for some social media publicity before hiking up the price to 1000 bucks for a 60 day pre-order.
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Oct 16, 2020 23:57
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Chimp_On_Stilts posted:Not sure I agree. Chimp's post makes a lot of assumptions (like saying AMD can't beat a 2070 in RT when they have exactly 0 RT cards out right now) but RT coming in a huge way. Both major consoles are supporting it with RT titles at launch. Unlike 2018 when Jensen tried to peddle the 20x0 series of cards, RT is here and it is here right now in a big way. It is the primary reason why no one should be buying a GPU other than a 3080 at the moment. The Turing series of cards are a joke when trying to run RT and AMD obviously has no RT card out at the moment. So its 3080 or wait for the later models to come out. Nvidia has the leg up so far in that they were first to market with the feature and they have enough money to staff engineers with developers to help them get it running and optimize for their cards. AMD's approach has been to load the consoles with RDNA 2's feature set including their own proprietary hardware for RT acceleration to make cross-platform development presumably easier by making optimization for their method of BVH acceleration the standard method of doing business. I mentioned in another post that Spiderman for PS 5 can be used as an early gauge for what RDNA 2 can do RT wise and it isn't bad at all. True 4k locked @ 30 with respectable image quality on what is essentially something worse than what RDNA 2's mid-tier card will be. This strategy will likely take time to play out though before AMD can reap its full potential. The AMD vs Nvidia choice for this generation will probably come down to an image quality preference vs how much of an Nvidia tax you are willing to pay. On one hand, you have Nvidia with a premium RT image quality using DLSS to give you what PC gamers would consider an acceptable framerate (locked 60 and above). On the other, you have AMD which will offer all the same features but likely having to downgrade on image quality as we saw in the Spiderman screenshots where the RT effects are sampled at a lower resolution and having to deal with, presumably, AMD's worse image upscaling tech. There hasn't been a single leaker who is confident that RDNA 2's RT can beat Ampere performance wise or have found out anything concrete on their upscaling tech. Aggressive pricing is probably still in order for AMD. They seem pretty smug though.
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Oct 17, 2020 00:19
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Twibbit posted:Ummm they have had access to it for a couple years now. Ue4 had it as a feature rather early ue4s raytracing features were available in beta for years but they were only deemed production-ready in 4.25 about 5 months ago
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Oct 17, 2020 00:24
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it's amazing Nvidia is still half-assing DLSS support. we're still seeing major releases like AC: Valhalla not supporting it.
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Oct 17, 2020 00:33
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shrike82 posted:it's amazing Nvidia is still half-assing DLSS support. we're still seeing major releases like AC: Valhalla not supporting it. Pretty sure this is in AMD's ecosystem. So like H:ZD, they were paid to not use it. Or at the very least they were asked not to.
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Oct 17, 2020 00:35
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Rexxed posted:Are they going to make a 3080 with the 8 the right way up? It's not final yet but it appears their solution is making one with two 8s so it's always right. It'll probably cost a few bucks extra but they're giving it a little extra gas too.
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Oct 17, 2020 00:38
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Well everyone knew there’s no way I’m waiting till Sunday for this. I’m free at last! I didn’t even need to F5 for this. 
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Oct 17, 2020 00:48
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RTX is cool but it's not as cool as 100-120 fps @ 4K, and for that reason I'm basically not touching RTX until Hopper comes out unless something changes. If they get multichip right on Hopper and we can do 4K/120/RTX that's the promised land, but I'm taking the frames every time if I have to choose. MikeC posted:Pretty sure this is in AMD's ecosystem. So like H:ZD, they were paid to not use it. Or at the very least they were asked not to. That's exactly right, it's an AMD partner title. This "incentivize devs not to use DLSS" thing is pathetic and AMD should feel bad.
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Oct 17, 2020 00:49
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Taima posted:
I mean, Nvidia in the past was more than willing to get devs to implement features to tank game performance even on themselves as long as it hosed AMD more so it is what it is.
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Oct 17, 2020 00:59
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Kraftwerk posted:Well everyone knew there’s no way I’m waiting till Sunday for this. Wow look at all the resolutions on that borkmark!
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Oct 17, 2020 00:59
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Kraftwerk posted:Well everyone knew there’s no way I’m waiting till Sunday for this. America is a 3rd world country. Grats dude!
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Oct 17, 2020 01:18
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DrDork posted:Yeah, I tend to agree here. The $400-$500 market is the inflection point: above that you're interested enough that you probably care about RT capabilities, or soon will. But below that? I'm not sure how much someone with a price cap of $300 is really going to care about RT capabilities given that most games don't support it, and it's still gonna really hurt performance. Like if you can get a $300 3060 with 1,000 performance points, or a $300 R6600 with 1,200 performance points, the Radeon would be the better choice for a lot of people. if DLSS adoption takes off, it also puts the lower-tier AMD cards in a seriously rough spot, because NVIDIA cards will be punching 50-100% above their price class in those titles even in raster, and so far there's no rumors suggesting RDNA2 has hardware accelerated tensor ops. RDNA2 is essentially going to be the last generation without a feature that's about to become very useful/popular (as DirectML allows a cross-vendor implementation) and probably is not going to age particularly well. Perhaps the "AMD's maxwell" mantra is more right than we think - Maxwell was the last purebred DX11 chip in an era that was beginning to transition to DX12/Vulkan and aged poorly. it's also a potentially large boost for mobile efficiency since you can cap framerates and clock your chip way down and still hit a locked 60fps or whatever. And obviously in the higher-end cards it is the secret sauce necessary to get raytracing to playable framerates, which again RDNA2 will struggle with just like Turing did. Unlike raytracing, DLSS is a huge value point across the whole lineup as long as NVIDIA can get it into enough engines. Like, AMD can't afford to play the "we're just as good as NVIDIA and can afford to price as such" game here like they did last gen (and like they did vs Intel). They very well may try but between their regular issues with drivers/instability and the performance deficit in advanced game engines that make use of the latest technologies, they basically should not be considered unless they're significantly cheaper than NVIDIA, like 20-30% cheaper per frame in raw raster. Like show me a 3070 competitor at $399 and that'd be worth it if you are only looking at raw raster, but you shouldn't pay premium prices if you're not getting the featureset. Pretty sure RDNA2 is at least in serious trouble / slated to be yet another unimpressive, low-margin generation like Vega. That's probably why AMD is short-stroking this generation and has RDNA3 on the table for next year. And conversely NVIDIA seems to realize they hosed up with Samsung and has new stuff in the pipeline for next year too. 3070/3080 are looking like decent chips in a vacuum but if you are sitting on a 1080 Ti or something and can afford to hold off, waiting another year isn't the worst idea in the world, Mistakes Were Made by both companies here. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Oct 17, 2020 |
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Oct 17, 2020 01:55
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AirRaid posted:Guys you're missing the big thing here. More to the point, both PS5 and Series X support RT and it WILL be a mainstay of their games. Gaming trends follow the console market because it's 80% of the non-phone gaming market. The only reason any of you people have been able to keep using 980s and Sandy Bridge and just powering through is because the current gen is using tech from 2009. Current Consoles are oddly not already slightly obsolete when they're coming out, they use PCIE4 and have RT built in natively, as well as really loving fast SSDs. The whole gaming market is about to pull a Crysis and kick in the teeth of anyone using a rig more than 2 or 3 years old. I'd bet by 2022 you're gonna see basically everyone who hasn't adopted current stuff being forced to update their poo poo or just not play ports anymore. Having a 6+ year old computer be viable will no longer be an option.
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Oct 17, 2020 01:56
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wake me up if DLSS adoption takes off and lol at paul talking about "hardware accelerated tensor ops"
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Oct 17, 2020 01:58
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Paul MaudDib posted:waiting another year isn't the worst idea in the world, Mistakes Were Made by both companies here. GPUs for the past 3 and a half years since the 1080Ti was released. Still the 3080 is pretty loving impressive, even though yeah, I suspect this mid-gen refresh will be a bigger step up than the Turing Supers were. Fuzz posted:More to the point, both PS5 and Series X support RT and it WILL be a mainstay of their games. Yeah this is an odd situation where we are going from the PS4/Bone which were arguably the weakest console generation ever released relative to their contemporary PCs, with the average gamer already having a faster PC when the drat things were new, to a generation that is actually going to be a good twice as powerful as the average current gaming PC in terms of GPU, CPU, memory, and storage. I do think it will take longer than you expect because I expect at least the next year to be almost entirely PS4/Bone ports, but after that you are going to need a proper modern PC for a good number of games, which hasn't been the case for like 15 years.
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Oct 17, 2020 02:01
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shrike82 posted:wake me up if DLSS adoption takes off maybe it's not in the games you personally care about but fortnite, call of duty and cyberpunk are Kind Of Big Deals you can frame it as only 3 games if you want but those are 3 games that a lot of people will build their PCs around
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Oct 17, 2020 02:05
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Kraftwerk posted:Well everyone knew there’s no way I’m waiting till Sunday for this. Awesome - so happy for you! Now I just need to wait for the Strix to make it to Western Canada before I get mine. Also, amazingly cute pup 
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Oct 17, 2020 02:05
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repiv posted:maybe it's not in the games you personally care about but fortnite, call of duty and cyberpunk are Kind Of Big Deals lol too bad people can't get Ampere cards anytime near the release of these games
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Oct 17, 2020 02:07
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i wish apex had DLSS, i don't need more performance but their TAA sucks rear end for some reason it takes forever to converge even at >150fps
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Oct 17, 2020 02:07
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https://imgur.com/a/kf272pY
Parallelwoody fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Oct 17, 2020 |
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Oct 17, 2020 02:13
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Whoops ignore
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Oct 17, 2020 02:15
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