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Barudak posted:If the US had unique boxart it is always the worst version Heavy Rain being an infamous example.
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Oct 17, 2020 16:57
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jokes posted:Yeah but Vaan didn’t have a shirt on and didn’t have a job until the game started, making him more of a Florida Butz. At this point we have to figure out what we mean by 'the Butz mold', then, because I don't think I entirely agree on some of these. I see Butz as essentially the perfect 'Nobody Special Hero' in Final Fantasy. The guy who didn't have to matter, who's not a big Destined Hero, who's important entirely because of what he does. But I think an additional important thing about Butz is that the game is always aware of that about him, and never pushes him into a higher status beyond that, it just lets him be Some Guy Doing What's Right. As well as him being a bit of a dipshit, which the game is also aware of. So to me I can't really say Tidus is in the Butz mold, because every single part of his story is tied to who he is, where he's from, and the fact his dad is Sin. His deeds never really get to exist decoupled from his preexisting story relevance. At the same time I do think Zidane is right in there, because (like Butz, in fact) while he does have a familial connection of some sort to the greater plot, it's not actually relevant to most of the game's plot, where he's fully allowed to be a Heroic Dingus and nothing more. Cloud is a REALLY tough one. I think my call is that he fits barely into the Butz mold in the original FFVII, but none of his other appearances, mostly because those other appearances forgot to let him be a dipshit. But I also have to point out, not all Butzes are actually good. The series' most recent Butz is Prompto, and Prompto is awful.
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Oct 17, 2020 17:16
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Prompto is cool
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Oct 17, 2020 17:21
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Cleretic posted:The last time we had a Butz we all swapped him out for Balthier, though. Vaan wasn't a butz at all. Kid couldn't even tell a joke or get drunk with his best friend, a man 4 times his age.
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Oct 17, 2020 17:26
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NikkolasKing posted:Get Lightning off my FFXIII-2 cover and logo. She's in 1% of the game. Fwiw I think the bait and switch with Lightning in 13-2 is kinda fine, since I'd rather be bait and switched than just spoiled. Going through FFX with my partner and she keeps joking about how the drama would work better if the re-releases didn't prominently include FFX-2 Yuna on the cover/logo which make it clear that FFX's plot will probably end up fine. Not that FFX is that surprising of a game/story, but it certainly doesn't help. VVVVV Yeah, which I'm kinda fine with too, I'll see how it works when we get there Ventana fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Oct 17, 2020 |
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Oct 17, 2020 17:33
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FFX and FFX-2 is one of the few examples where that might make you falsely confident though
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Oct 17, 2020 17:44
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If I remember correctly there is a quote that fully explains Butz as a character: "Bartz, Bartz, Bartz... so enthusiastic and yet so stupid” He’s just a stupid, cool, and chill dude. Just a positive dude who wanted to hang out with his bud/dog/chocobo. E: I read more about him and his character is supposed to represent the wind which makes a lot of sense. Protagonists should always be a breezy boi who’s here for a good time and, probably, not a long time. jokes fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Oct 17, 2020 |
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Oct 17, 2020 17:49
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I think we can all agree Final Fantasy needs more pianist heroes. That’s what makes Butz so compelling and relatable.
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Oct 17, 2020 17:54
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nrook posted:I think we can all agree Final Fantasy needs more pianist heroes. That’s what makes Butz so compelling and relatable. His skills are superhuman, even.
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Oct 17, 2020 17:58
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Help Im Alive posted:I didn't know until just now that FF boxarts being white backgrounds with the cool amano logos was only a Europe/Japan thing Just noticed the tilted horizon means that Tidus is like at a 45 degree angle to the ground?
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Oct 17, 2020 18:28
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https://twitter.com/acosmos/status/1316500670351060999
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Oct 17, 2020 19:09
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:Just noticed the tilted horizon means that Tidus is like at a 45 degree angle to the ground? Maybe the tide is going out
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Oct 17, 2020 19:44
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CPColin posted:Maybe the
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Oct 17, 2020 19:45
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I like FFX's story but Jecht is kinda a dick. How the gently caress did his wife stand him?
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Oct 17, 2020 20:28
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Violet_Sky posted:I like FFX's story but Jecht is kinda a dick. How the gently caress did his wife stand him? Kinda assuming a bit about Jecht’s marital status there.
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Oct 17, 2020 21:05
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DrakePegasus posted:Kinda assuming a bit about Jecht’s marital status there. I assume his wife divorced him when he stopped making money
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Oct 17, 2020 21:12
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Violet_Sky posted:I like FFX's story but Jecht is kinda a dick. How the gently caress did his wife stand him? jecht was an absolute sweetheart to his wife and a total dick to basically everyone else.
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Oct 17, 2020 21:19
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All mothers in FFX have no names and this will always bug me. Jecht and Tidus' Mom. Braska and Yuna's Mom. Jyscal and Seymour's Mom. Violet_Sky posted:I like FFX's story but Jecht is kinda a dick. How the gently caress did his wife stand him? Love is a helluva drug and as Tidus' Farplane flashback shows, his mom was pretty into Jecht, to the extent she might have loved him more than her son. I don't think we're ever told when she dies but the implication is she died shortly after Jecht vanished because she wwas too heartbroken over it and as for lil' Tidus...meh, that stranger with the red coat can take care of him, I guess.
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Oct 17, 2020 21:19
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Cleretic posted:At this point we have to figure out what we mean by 'the Butz mold', then, because I don't think I entirely agree on some of these. I mean, his dad was a Chosen Hero from Another World so if he's a nobody it's only because the rest of the party are literally royalty.
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Oct 17, 2020 21:26
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Jecht was probably only sweet to Tidus’s mom because she fawned over him all the time. The dude’s a celebrity first and an everything-else second.
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Oct 17, 2020 22:24
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https://twitter.com/Dreamboum/status/1317604956724252673
CharlieFoxtrot fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Oct 18, 2020 |
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Oct 18, 2020 01:36
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Bruceski posted:I mean, his dad was a Chosen Hero from Another World so if he's a nobody it's only because the rest of the party are literally royalty. Yeah, and in a lot of other stories, that would matter. That would be his main Thing, he'd have a whole 'I'm a Jedi, like my father before me' moment that characterizes him. But in V the fact that Dorgann is important barely matters for Bartz's story. Also, I'd actually call Faris a 'Nobody Special' hero in a different way. Basically every time the fact she's a princess comes up, she rejects it and evetything it entails, and... well, the story lets her. She wants to be a nobody defined by her own accomplishments, and the game does that. As do the crossover games, they characterize her as 'Pirate Captain', not 'Princess'.
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Oct 18, 2020 02:28
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NikkolasKing posted:Get Lightning off my FFXIII-2 cover and logo. She's in 1% of the game.  on XIII-2Seifer makes more sense, he fades more as the game progresses and we get further away from Squall’s death at the end of disc 1
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Oct 18, 2020 02:57
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FFX is a game about 3 different people whose lives are upended by the hole of their fathers passing so while its not pleasant none of the mothers are named, it fits with the motif of the game. I also originally had a point about Lulu's summoner not getting a name either since she's a woman but lol nope I just forgot she has one.
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Oct 18, 2020 03:02
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Cleretic posted:Yeah, and in a lot of other stories, that would matter. That would be his main Thing, he'd have a whole 'I'm a Jedi, like my father before me' moment that characterizes him. But in V the fact that Dorgann is important barely matters for Bartz's story. Except for the fact that both of them are literally the chosen ones, chosen by the crystals. And I can and will directly argue that being a Chosen One is what makes Bartz a hero, as until he was chosen, he was content to literally be a wanderer with no goal in life beyond going from place to place. Even his first response to Lenna and Galuf going to the wind shrine is "Neat, take care."
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Oct 18, 2020 03:08
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Onmi posted:Except for the fact that both of them are literally the chosen ones, chosen by the crystals. And I can and will directly argue that being a Chosen One is what makes Bartz a hero, as until he was chosen, he was content to literally be a wanderer with no goal in life beyond going from place to place. Even his first response to Lenna and Galuf going to the wind shrine is "Neat, take care." Yeah, Chosen Ones are always a curveball when I try to define essentially 'heroes by deed' and 'heroes by rite'. I've always kinda hated the concept. But Bartz seems like his response is basically 'sure, why not', and he goes along with it not outright because he was chosen to, but because he personally thinks it's a good idea. But I will note, Dorgann is unrelated to Bartz being a Chosen One; Lenna and Faris were chosen, after all, despite the Tycoon lineage being entirely unrelated to the Dawn Warriors. I'm pretty sure FFV's Warriors of Light are literally just chosen by proximity to an exploding crystal, which... isn't exactly a very choosy criteria.
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Oct 18, 2020 03:37
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Cleretic posted:Yeah, and in a lot of other stories, that would matter. That would be his main Thing, he'd have a whole 'I'm a Jedi, like my father before me' moment that characterizes him. But in V the fact that Dorgann is important barely matters for Bartz's story. Dorgann was kind of an oddball in the warriors of dawn too. The other three were leaders of their respective areas. Dorgann, like butz, was just along for the ride. I could be reading into it too much since I don't recall any real backstory of dorgann.
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Oct 18, 2020 03:38
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Really? I thought that Xezat became a king because he was one of the Warriors of Dawn, not the other way around. This doesn't really make any sense, but I felt like it fit with the video game logic that held FFV together.
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Oct 18, 2020 03:42
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nrook posted:Really? I thought that Xezat became a king because he was one of the Warriors of Dawn, not the other way around. This doesn't really make any sense, but I felt like it fit with the video game logic that held FFV together. The wiki says his last name was surgate and also says he became king after. So uh dunno maybe he was a bum too and took the name afterwards.
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Oct 18, 2020 03:50
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The biggest effect Bartz being Dorgann's son has is "helps convince a wolfman to open a door that he was almost certainly going to open anyway once Galuf talked him down from full aggro." ...Actually, I'll go ahead and make the argument that without Bartz's lineage, the party might not have generated enough goodwill with the werewolf community to get Requiem and the free potions. So Bartz is important because he makes bard even better than it already is. Wait. A significant portion of the songs are obtained as a result of Bartz's actions or backstory. He's the only one stupid enough to poke the sheep that leads to Romeo's Ballad, and you only get Alluring Air after Bartz reminisces about his childhood. And he's the one playing all the pianos! Is Bartz actually the secret to bard's power???
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Oct 18, 2020 04:16
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Cattail Prophet posted:The biggest effect Bartz being Dorgann's son has is "helps convince a wolfman to open a door that he was almost certainly going to open anyway once Galuf talked him down from full aggro." His hometown is Lix... licks... slang for songs... 
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Oct 18, 2020 04:20
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Cattail Prophet posted:The biggest effect Bartz being Dorgann's son has is "helps convince a wolfman to open a door that he was almost certainly going to open anyway once Galuf talked him down from full aggro." He has the best dancer sprite too. He's Justin Timberlake.
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Oct 18, 2020 06:25
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Don’t forget that after Bartz leaves Lix a bard moves into his house, and he has a music box and becomes a piano savant with no formal training and “Bartz” and “Bard” share the first three letters. Bardtz being a Bard is canon.
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Oct 18, 2020 10:52
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My first FFT playthrough I did a bunch of grinding and was averaging level 50 when I got to Finath River and had to just reset until there was only one red chocobo
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Oct 18, 2020 11:02
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Booourns posted:My first FFT playthrough I did a bunch of grinding and was averaging level 50 when I got to Finath River and had to just reset until there was only one red chocobo Between this battle and running into the Monk Fiesta on Grog Hill, I've always just saved before moving even once across random battle maps as a habit.
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Oct 18, 2020 16:18
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A lot of lessons learned the hard way in that game
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Oct 18, 2020 16:44
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MechaX posted:Between this battle and running into the Monk Fiesta on Grog Hill, I've always just saved before moving even once across random battle maps as a habit. I reached that place at probably 15 levels above the story and my first attempt had 3 red chocobos.  The last time I played through PSX FFT I picked up a chocobo and bull demon in ch1 and walked until I had a red chocobo and a sacred (well, 2 of them because I poached 1 for an eventual holy lance). It wasn't even close to fair.
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Oct 18, 2020 19:06
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I always had trouble with the Chocobo rush in mission 2 or 3. Step right up to the chain-spam healing encounter, WARK!zenguitarman posted:A lot of lessons learned the hard way in that game
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Oct 18, 2020 20:14
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I'm so glad FF14 embraced that. The lead-in quests to one of the FFT raids included fighting 2 red chocobos and was quite deadly (apparently even worse when first released, and not made easier when you got aggroed by the ones everyone else spawned doing the quest) and the new relic weapon zone has more of them including a boss encounter. "It's Dalamund all over again! Run!"
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Oct 18, 2020 21:24
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Mega64 posted:Don’t forget that after Bartz leaves Lix a bard moves into his house, and he has a music box and becomes a piano savant with no formal training and “Bartz” and “Bard” share the first three letters. well fartz and bartz are just one letter apart so why isnt his job class flatulent npc
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Oct 18, 2020 23:21
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