Companies Circling The Drain: What about Chapter Elevenses?

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Pulcinella: Feb 15, 2019

Platystemon posted:

Trademarks are forever.

You can copy �Steamboat Willie� itself. Anything creative with the Mickey character is still forbidden.

If they were serious, Netflix would refuse to run in a VM because it doesn�t have a functional HDCP chain.

The pixels do have to interface with our analogue eyes, but the point at which decryption happens can be within the monitor and difficult to work with.

It�s still ultimately doomed to failure because only one group of pirates has to break it and it�s free for everyone.

Don�t they make professional capture equipment (e.g. for news media, film companies themselves, etc.) that basically ignores HDCP? How hard is it to make a device that just lies about preserving the HDCP chain?

# ? Oct 24, 2020 03:44

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# ? Apr 19, 2024 05:14

Knormal: Nov 11, 2001

Krispy Wafer posted:

Isn�t Safari different? At one point both Safari and Chrome used webkit, but then Chrome forked into its own direction.

But yeah, it�s Safari, Firefox, and Chrome. Even Microsoft uses the same fundamentals as Chrome now I think.

Safari and Chrome were both based off of Webkit, but then there was some sort of directional disagreement between Apple and Google and Google split off their own fork for Chrome. Edge switched over to being based off Chrome's fork a few months back. Opera is apparently also based off of the Google fork.

Firefox has always used their own engine.

IE sends page-draw requests out to a cage full of monkeys with crayons Microsoft trained to read HTML.

# ? Oct 24, 2020 03:44

Stingwing: Mar 26, 2010; Thank you Mr President for Making America Great Again! USA #1! I shouldn't have to understand other cultures, I'm a god damn American hero.

Pulcinella posted:

Don�t they make professional capture equipment (e.g. for news media, film companies themselves, etc.) that basically ignores HDCP? How hard is it to make a device that just lies about preserving the HDCP chain?

A lot of HDMI splitters will ignore HDCP and don't cost much.

# ? Oct 24, 2020 03:59

Gnossiennes: Jan 7, 2013; Loving chairs more every day!

edit: misunderstood

Gnossiennes has a new favorite as of 05:39 on Oct 24, 2020

# ? Oct 24, 2020 04:29

Silly Newbie: Jul 25, 2007; How do I?

Knormal posted:

Safari and Chrome were both based off of Webkit, but then there was some sort of directional disagreement between Apple and Google and Google split off their own fork for Chrome. Edge switched over to being based off Chrome's fork a few months back. Opera is apparently also based off of the Google fork.

Firefox has always used their own engine.

IE sends page-draw requests out to a cage full of monkeys with crayons Microsoft trained to read HTML.

This has the added bonus of making Firefox a pain to work with in the enterprise, as it maintains it's own certificate store, among other things, and doesn't just use the Windows default.

# ? Oct 24, 2020 05:02

Platystemon: Feb 13, 2012; as a person who never leaves my house i've done pretty well for myself.

Pulcinella posted:

Don’t they make professional capture equipment (e.g. for news media, film companies themselves, etc.) that basically ignores HDCP? How hard is it to make a device that just lies about preserving the HDCP chain?

They try to control this by blacklisting manufacturers with particularly vulnerable implementations, but there�s a neverending parade of them.

One of the early ones was an HDMI input multiplier built into a TV, which put media companies in the position of making new releases stop working on millions of TVs or letting it go.

# ? Oct 24, 2020 05:14

blunt: Jul 7, 2005

Firefox = Gecko (rendering) & SpiderMonkey (javascript)
Safari = Webkit & JavaScriptCore
Chromium = Blink & V8

(except on iOS where everything is webkit/javascriptcore because apple are bastards)

There's a few other engines too but nobody cares about them.

blunt has a new favorite as of 11:26 on Oct 24, 2020

# ? Oct 24, 2020 11:18

The Moon Monster: Dec 30, 2005

I've definitely gotten the black screen when print screening Netflix in the past, but it seems to work fine now.

# ? Oct 24, 2020 11:56

Krispy Wafer: Jul 26, 2002; I shouted out "Free the exposed 67"
But they stood on my hair and told me I was fat; Grimey Drawer

Back in the early aughts, before Chrome and Safari were a thing, you'd need like 4 web browsers on a Mac to make sure you could properly load a variety of web pages. I had Omniweb, iCab, Opera, and Firefox. Everyone of them had a different backend engine and all of them rendered pages differently. What a fun time.

Silly Newbie posted:

This has the added bonus of making Firefox a pain to work with in the enterprise, as it maintains it's own certificate store, among other things, and doesn't just use the Windows default.

I had to stop using Firefox because of the certificate issues. We had a lot of self-signed certs at work and Firefox wouldn't load any of the pages without me putting in security holes, which isn't what you want to do with a browser you use for work.

# ? Oct 24, 2020 16:58

HOLY FUCK: Mar 31, 2007; Cats are terrifying, everyone knows that! 'Cause they're witches! And they've got knives in their feet!

go the coolest and best route and take a picture of the screen with your phone :getin:

# ? Oct 24, 2020 18:40

Eldritch BiLast: Jul 7, 2009; Pummel Sylvanas
Melee Range
Instant

vyst posted:

Homeboy probably uses Edge

Only browser worth using for Netflix since it's the only browser that does 1080p/4k with Netflix with little compression.

# ? Oct 24, 2020 18:43

WeedlordGoku69: Feb 12, 2015; by Cyrano4747

also, regarding the Steamboat Willie thing, PD is a little more complicated than that and, at least as far as I'm aware, any iterations of trademarked characters that appear in a PD thing are themselves PD as long as you don't incorporate elements from still-copyrighted versions

so when Steamboat Willie goes into the public domain, people will be able to make stuff using that specific iteration of Mickey Mouse as long as they don't incorporate or reference anything from later Mickey cartoons. and if they don't extend the copyright date after that, eventually the whole stable of classic Disney characters will be effectively PD so long as you're referencing their old-school versions and not, like, Ducktales or Kingdom Hearts (I think the entire breadth of classic Disney cartoons is supposed to be PD by 2050ish given the current dates)

this specifically comes up fairly often with Sherlock Holmes, because some of the Sherlock Holmes material is PD and some of it isn't. as a result, you're allowed to make whatever Sherlock Holmes stuff you want, basically, but you can't use elements from anything the Arthur Conan Doyle estate still owns or they'll come try to gently caress your poo poo up (as that Enola Holmes movie on Netflix found out; fortunately, the ACD estate lost on that one, because their rationale for suing was really really dumb and included such things as "Sherlock Holmes did not have emotions in the PD stories so treating him as a fully realized character infringes our copyright")

e: and i think with Sherlock Holmes another complication is that ACD didn't invent the whole "hat and pipe" look, that's from the Basil Rathbone movies, and if you use that without clearing it first the copyright holders for those will come wreck your poo poo. sorta like how Frankenstein, the book, is PD, but Frankenstein, the Universal movie, is not, so if you make a Frankenstein thing that isn't for Universal you have to come up with a new design for the monster, because if he's green and got bolts in his head Universal will sue you.

WeedlordGoku69 has a new favorite as of 19:03 on Oct 24, 2020

# ? Oct 24, 2020 18:57

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

Krispy Wafer posted:

I had to stop using Firefox because of the certificate issues. We had a lot of self-signed certs at work and Firefox wouldn't load any of the pages without me putting in security holes, which isn't what you want to do with a browser you use for work.

that doesn�t sound right. as far back as I can remember[*], which with Firefox is quite a long way back, we let you save a self-signed cert to be remembered for future uses, so you would get stopped if it changed but otherwise be OK. you have to go into �advanced� to do it now from the warning page.

you can also import the CA root (and I think now distribute it via GPO) if they�re all anchored to an internal one, which the enterprise deployment kit let you bake into a custom installer MSI if you couldn�t just do it on your client image

[*] there was a brief period, possibly not even any official releases, where you had to go into cert prefs and import things manually because there wasn�t a �remember this� option in the block page

# ? Oct 24, 2020 19:04

WeedlordGoku69: Feb 12, 2015; by Cyrano4747

also my only real beef with Chrome other than the aforementioned Netflix fuckery is that holy poo poo this browser is a loving RAM hog

but then, so is Firefox, so :shrug:

# ? Oct 24, 2020 19:05

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

I find the Task Manager display on FF good for figuring out where memory is going, and often closing a few gdocs I�m done with can give me back a gig. RAM�s pretty cheap now, though, so it�s more habit than necessity. I find Chrome to use a lot more memory, but that may be specific to my browsing patterns.

# ? Oct 24, 2020 19:21

Foxfire_: Nov 8, 2010

Screenshotting thing sounds more like technical failure than a DRM thing. All black is how some methods of taking screenshots act when the window content is being rendered on a GPU. Some Netflix video streams are h.264 and some video cards will decode that in hardware.

# ? Oct 24, 2020 19:35

Xlorp: Jan 23, 2008

WeedlordGoku69 posted:

also, regarding the Steamboat Willie thing, PD is a little more complicated than that and, at least as far as I'm aware, any iterations of trademarked characters that appear in a PD thing are themselves PD as long as you don't incorporate elements from still-copyrighted versions

so when Steamboat Willie goes into the public domain, people will be able to make stuff using that specific iteration of Mickey Mouse as long as they don't incorporate or reference anything from later Mickey cartoons. and if they don't extend the copyright date after that, eventually the whole stable of classic Disney characters will be effectively PD so long as you're referencing their old-school versions and not, like, Ducktales or Kingdom Hearts (I think the entire breadth of classic Disney cartoons is supposed to be PD by 2050ish given the current dates)

this specifically comes up fairly often with Sherlock Holmes, because some of the Sherlock Holmes material is PD and some of it isn't. as a result, you're allowed to make whatever Sherlock Holmes stuff you want, basically, but you can't use elements from anything the Arthur Conan Doyle estate still owns or they'll come try to gently caress your poo poo up (as that Enola Holmes movie on Netflix found out; fortunately, the ACD estate lost on that one, because their rationale for suing was really really dumb and included such things as "Sherlock Holmes did not have emotions in the PD stories so treating him as a fully realized character infringes our copyright")

e: and i think with Sherlock Holmes another complication is that ACD didn't invent the whole "hat and pipe" look, that's from the Basil Rathbone movies, and if you use that without clearing it first the copyright holders for those will come wreck your poo poo. sorta like how Frankenstein, the book, is PD, but Frankenstein, the Universal movie, is not, so if you make a Frankenstein thing that isn't for Universal you have to come up with a new design for the monster, because if he's green and got bolts in his head Universal will sue you.

This reminds me of discussions of dogma, more specifically in the Catholic church. Maybe IP is one of those things that shouldn't be rendered unto Caesar.

# ? Oct 24, 2020 20:08

Snackula: Aug 1, 2013; hedgefund wizard

Foxfire_ posted:

Screenshotting thing sounds more like technical failure than a DRM thing. All black is how some methods of taking screenshots act when the window content is being rendered on a GPU. Some Netflix video streams are h.264 and some video cards will decode that in hardware.

No it's very much a DRM thing for Netflix, which only plays 1080p on browser/player device combinations which support Widevine. Basically the entire stream is encrypted, the host system has no access to what's happening in that viewport at all. Anything that doesn't support Widevine gets restricted to 720p (or locked out entirely).

As usual pirates found ways around it almost instantly (old rear end devices like the Xbox 360 and PS3 will happily dump into a capture box that ignores HDCP and still got 1080p) but the actual Widevine pipeline is still mostly uncracked.

# ? Oct 24, 2020 20:27

Krispy Wafer: Jul 26, 2002; I shouted out "Free the exposed 67"
But they stood on my hair and told me I was fat; Grimey Drawer

Subjunctive posted:

that doesn�t sound right. as far back as I can remember[*], which with Firefox is quite a long way back, we let you save a self-signed cert to be remembered for future uses, so you would get stopped if it changed but otherwise be OK. you have to go into �advanced� to do it now from the warning page.

you can also import the CA root (and I think now distribute it via GPO) if they�re all anchored to an internal one, which the enterprise deployment kit let you bake into a custom installer MSI if you couldn�t just do it on your client image

[*] there was a brief period, possibly not even any official releases, where you had to go into cert prefs and import things manually because there wasn�t a �remember this� option in the block page

This would have been 2016. My job then was NOT very good at corporate security and let us use our personal MacBook's if we wanted, so there was no corporate CA. I can't recall all the details, but I had to add a line in a Firefox config file for each internal site with a self-signed cert (dozens). I finally gave up and just switched to Chrome.

That year there were a lot of security changes with SSL certs, so that may have had something to do with it. Everyone was switching from SHA1 to SHA2 so our sites were breaking all over the place.

# ? Oct 24, 2020 21:06

Knormal: Nov 11, 2001

Silly Newbie posted:

This has the added bonus of making Firefox a pain to work with in the enterprise, as it maintains it's own certificate store, among other things, and doesn't just use the Windows default.

Krispy Wafer posted:

I had to stop using Firefox because of the certificate issues. We had a lot of self-signed certs at work and Firefox wouldn't load any of the pages without me putting in security holes, which isn't what you want to do with a browser you use for work.

Yeah but that's a conscious choice by the Firefox devs and not anything to do with the rendering engine. Trusting certs from the Windows cert store makes you vulnerable to snooping from your employer, which is of course exactly why companies use them, but goes against Firefox's privacy-based focus.

You've also been able to set it up to use the Windows cert store since version 49, though this requires you to have some GPO or something managing your Firefox config.
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/setting-certificate-authorities-firefox

# ? Oct 24, 2020 21:14

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

WeedlordGoku69 posted:

also, regarding the Steamboat Willie thing, PD is a little more complicated than that and, at least as far as I'm aware, any iterations of trademarked characters that appear in a PD thing are themselves PD as long as you don't incorporate elements from still-copyrighted versions

so when Steamboat Willie goes into the public domain, people will be able to make stuff using that specific iteration of Mickey Mouse as long as they don't incorporate or reference anything from later Mickey cartoons. and if they don't extend the copyright date after that, eventually the whole stable of classic Disney characters will be effectively PD so long as you're referencing their old-school versions and not, like, Ducktales or Kingdom Hearts (I think the entire breadth of classic Disney cartoons is supposed to be PD by 2050ish given the current dates)

this specifically comes up fairly often with Sherlock Holmes, because some of the Sherlock Holmes material is PD and some of it isn't. as a result, you're allowed to make whatever Sherlock Holmes stuff you want, basically, but you can't use elements from anything the Arthur Conan Doyle estate still owns or they'll come try to gently caress your poo poo up (as that Enola Holmes movie on Netflix found out; fortunately, the ACD estate lost on that one, because their rationale for suing was really really dumb and included such things as "Sherlock Holmes did not have emotions in the PD stories so treating him as a fully realized character infringes our copyright")

e: and i think with Sherlock Holmes another complication is that ACD didn't invent the whole "hat and pipe" look, that's from the Basil Rathbone movies, and if you use that without clearing it first the copyright holders for those will come wreck your poo poo. sorta like how Frankenstein, the book, is PD, but Frankenstein, the Universal movie, is not, so if you make a Frankenstein thing that isn't for Universal you have to come up with a new design for the monster, because if he's green and got bolts in his head Universal will sue you.

IIRC, some or all of the old Fleischer Superman shorts are public domain now too. (There's a webcomic based on one of them, The Last Mechanical Monster)

# ? Oct 25, 2020 03:02

Doggles: Apr 22, 2007

https://twitter.com/NeilRetail/status/1319680550194458625

Has there ever been an example of a company removing its physical presence in order to grow its online business where the plan has actually worked? I know there are examples where businesses have had their online presence overshadow their original operation, Netflix going from disc delivery to streaming being the prime example, but to kill your already struggling stores hoping customers have enough brand loyalty to shop through your website and not go elsewhere? Yeeesh.

On a lark I decided to see how Circuit City is doing after its brand was bought out in bankruptcy and converted into an online retailer. Their selection is in dire shape with multiple categories having no products listed. I did happen to see that they had a microwave available in the appliances section for a price of $0.00. It allowed me to add 9 to my cart, but the shipping price wound up being over $1000. They do offer free shipping on orders over $35 though, so I added two $20 NES emulators to my cart, submitted the order, and in a few days I might be the proud owner of 9 microwaves. :shrug:

# ? Oct 26, 2020 19:29

Zil: Jun 4, 2011; Satanically Summoned Citrus

Doggles posted:

On a lark I decided to see how Circuit City is doing after its brand was bought out in bankruptcy and converted into an online retailer. Their selection is in dire shape with multiple categories having no products listed. I did happen to see that they had a microwave available in the appliances section for a price of $0.00. It allowed me to add 9 to my cart, but the shipping price wound up being over $1000. They do offer free shipping on orders over $35 though, so I added two $20 NES emulators to my cart, submitted the order, and in a few days I might be the proud owner of 9 microwaves.

I don't see how this can go wrong at all.

# ? Oct 26, 2020 19:33

George H.W. Cunt: Oct 6, 2010

Microwave arbitrage

# ? Oct 26, 2020 21:17

Rick: Feb 23, 2004; When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

Doggles posted:

https://twitter.com/NeilRetail/status/1319680550194458625

Has there ever been an example of a company removing its physical presence in order to grow its online business where the plan has actually worked? I know there are examples where businesses have had their online presence overshadow their original operation, Netflix going from disc delivery to streaming being the prime example, but to kill your already struggling stores hoping customers have enough brand loyalty to shop through your website and not go elsewhere? Yeeesh.

On a lark I decided to see how Circuit City is doing after its brand was bought out in bankruptcy and converted into an online retailer. Their selection is in dire shape with multiple categories having no products listed. I did happen to see that they had a microwave available in the appliances section for a price of $0.00. It allowed me to add 9 to my cart, but the shipping price wound up being over $1000. They do offer free shipping on orders over $35 though, so I added two $20 NES emulators to my cart, submitted the order, and in a few days I might be the proud owner of 9 microwaves.

Lmao. Respect. Looking forward to your report when a palette of microwaves is placed on your porch.

# ? Oct 26, 2020 23:11

WonkyBob: Jan 1, 2013; Holy shit, you own a skirt?!

Doggles posted:

https://twitter.com/NeilRetail/status/1319680550194458625

Has there ever been an example of a company removing its physical presence in order to grow its online business where the plan has actually worked? I know there are examples where businesses have had their online presence overshadow their original operation, Netflix going from disc delivery to streaming being the prime example, but to kill your already struggling stores hoping customers have enough brand loyalty to shop through your website and not go elsewhere? Yeeesh.

On a lark I decided to see how Circuit City is doing after its brand was bought out in bankruptcy and converted into an online retailer. Their selection is in dire shape with multiple categories having no products listed. I did happen to see that they had a microwave available in the appliances section for a price of $0.00. It allowed me to add 9 to my cart, but the shipping price wound up being over $1000. They do offer free shipping on orders over $35 though, so I added two $20 NES emulators to my cart, submitted the order, and in a few days I might be the proud owner of 9 microwaves.

It's now listed as 'Out Of Stock' so you're either about to get a "We are sorry" email or you have Christmas gifts for the entire family well and truly sorted.

# ? Oct 27, 2020 00:04