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The Little Death posted:I guess Cirque was Brett's lawyer. And he benefited directly from the slaughterball team. There's the big conspiracy. It's not even reveal, it's just obvious. Ok, but here we’re getting to a bit of an abstract question: What is a “seer”? I don’t mean in terms of D&D rules, but in terms of Dominic’s role in this society. If people who can “see the truth” are a thing, you’d think people would be a bit more careful about their incriminating conversations - but the basic premise of the comic is that Dominic is continually frustrated by the ‘normies’ who disrespect him and (at best) treat him as a novelty. In this particular arc, Greg is being fined for damage caused by his superheroism, and Luna’s ex is basically taking advantage of the resulting debt to purchase cheap land for a sports stadium. It’s an extremely mundane plot - except that, specifically without any evidence, Dominic has an absolute certainty in a far-reaching illicit sex conspiracy linking the Denver Broncos, to the local newspaper, to the nation’s top lawyers, to his girlfriend’s mom, etc. The deliberate plot to give Dominic’s girlfriend low self-esteem likely reaches the upper echelons of government, so now his struggle is find evidence to match his ‘visions’. In other words, Dominic is a conspiracy theorist. Generally speaking, that’s what a “seer” is. Set in our world, Dominic would absolutely be some sort of info-wars crank.
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Oct 23, 2020 23:05
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:In other words, Dominic is a conspiracy theorist. Generally speaking, that’s what a “seer” is. Set in our world, Dominic would absolutely be some sort of info-wars crank. also, goku
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Oct 23, 2020 23:11
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This is a world where magic provably exists and everyone knows it, though. Seers would be the ultimate detectives or lawyers. Depending on how authoritarian you want the government to be, anti seer runes like the one wassisname had could be illegal, having one anywhere on you grounds for immediate arrest and search.
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Oct 23, 2020 23:23
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Yeah the problem (okay, A problem) is Mookie has created a setting where magic is clearly common and employed for mundane tasks, it is regularly being harnessed for everything... but nobody takes any measures against clairvoyance or accounts for it in any way, or uses it to determine the truth of legal matters, etc. It'd be one thing if you had the kind of fantasy setting where "A WIZARD!" is a rare and wondrous thing and you don't know what they can do. I'm even kind of forgiving of generic D&D-type worlds still basically resembling the middle ages despite more common magic which should theoretically create larger social/technological changes. But this isn't that, this is specifically a world where magic has supplanted technology in many areas, so if seers are a thing, we should be hearing dialogue like, "We shouldn't talk out here, I've got a scry-proof chamber" or "will the court seer please See The Truth of the witness' testimony."
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Oct 24, 2020 00:12
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You know how the Flintstones is just the 1950s but with dinosaurs and rocks in place of electronics and plastic? Dominic Deegan is just the early aughts but with magic in place of technology. It's the same thing. Except the Flintstones generally was a bit more consistent and played things for laughs. I'm saying that Mookie's worldbuilding compares unfavorably to the Flintstones.
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Oct 24, 2020 00:16
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I'm not surprised Mookie completely failed to make a seer character not poo poo to be honest, they're hard to keep relevant while not sucking all the tension out of the setting. I think I've only seen one seer character that wasn't OP as hell.
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Oct 24, 2020 00:32
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The usual trick or solution to writing a seer or any sort of character like that is to have their visions be very metaphorical and dream-like - they reveal the future but at first are basically nonsense and so no matter how powerful our seer is, they must also be clever and wise and able to discern meaning from their bizarre visions - and/or to make the visions more about outcomes than precise things. 'I had a vision of Luna dying from a stab wound! I need to find out how, when, and why she gets stabbed and try to avoid it!' Basically you need to make sure there is enough vagueness that the protagonist has to do something. Their power isn't that the universe gives them answers, it's that the universe gives them helpful questions and they are able to use that knowledge to arrive at the answers themselves. But, you know, Mookie hates the idea of protagonists having to work for things or achieve stuff on their own, so gently caress it.
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Oct 24, 2020 01:33
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There’s even that one point where Dominic is told outright that he’s actually misreading his visions during the Jacob arc... Long before that came into play, so any potential for a twist was lost.
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Oct 24, 2020 01:42
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:But, you know, Mookie hates the idea of protagonists having to work for things or achieve stuff on their own, so gently caress it. He also hates the idea of his protagonists loving up and being wrong and actually having it stick longer than a page or so or being retroactively softened into being not that bad after all. Which also fits in with Warcraft's style where the player can fall into line behind someone who burned down a tree-city full of civilians quite literally because 'gently caress this elf in particular' and gets worse from there until she's forced out of power, and the sternest consequences you face once she bounces off to be the raid boss next expansion are a couple of mildly snippy lines of dialogue. Pyrotoad fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Oct 24, 2020 |
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Oct 24, 2020 02:05
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Unrelated to Mookie, but is Blizzard ever going to stop just repeating Kerrigan's character arc? Do they have no other ideas?
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Oct 24, 2020 02:33
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Rotten Red Rod posted:Unrelated to Mookie, but is Blizzard ever going to stop just repeating Kerrigan's character arc? Do they have no other ideas? make an oc to date blue titty adjust racism dials to be 38.2% higher racist blue titty? workshop on tuesday 2:30 meeting
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Oct 24, 2020 03:00
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Dabir posted:This is a world where magic provably exists and everyone knows it, though. Seers would be the ultimate detectives or lawyers. Depending on how authoritarian you want the government to be, anti seer runes like the one wassisname had could be illegal, having one anywhere on you grounds for immediate arrest and search. Right, but that’s not how things work in this story. So it raises the question of whether Dominic is actually psychic at all. Think of Garfield Minus Garfield: remove the conceit of the magic black orb for a second, and you have Dominic just sitting there concocting increasingly elaborate fantasies about the NFL and his girlfriend’s sexual history until he’s overcome with such rage that he starts destroying random objects in his house. This would be troubling behaviour even if “seeing” were totally legit. But it’s been established that “seeing” is considered fringe bullshit not unlike real-world palmistry and such. Even allowing for a world of (some kinds of) magic, Dom is a nut.
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Oct 24, 2020 03:06
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Hostile V posted:more blue titty corrupt blue titty
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Oct 24, 2020 04:08
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Fister Roboto posted:corrupt blue titty
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Oct 24, 2020 04:15
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I don't think the folks at Blizzards are deliberate Nazis, I think they're just Mookie like levels of idiotic and myopic, but I do think that fantasy stories written by actual Nazis would be pretty much indistinguishable from a lot of WoW. Remember the Pygmies? Or how Trolls are all Jamaican caricatures and also savage cannibals? Or how the Orcs who live in NotAfrica weren't overtly enough in their Noble Savage inspirations so it turns out that Orcs are actually brown skinned by nature? Or how it was a good thing the Orcs genocided the Space Roma and used their bones to make roads because if they hadn't the Space Roma would have become bad guys?
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Oct 24, 2020 04:54
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There's one aspect of seers that Mookie introduced (and then promptly never visited again) later on in the original series, that I thought had potential. If I remember right, it boiled down to the idea that as most visions are random, there's a hell of a lot of work put into just identifying what you've actually seen, let alone interpreting it. The idea that you need to be widely read on things like architecture, fashion, zoology, etc. just to work out where your vision takes place could be an interesting piece of worldbuilding. It's a good hook for mysteries along the lines of "I saw the rare Blue Spotted Butterfly but that only lives in warmer climates and it was snowing outside, we're looking for a private collector in the mountains". Of course, Mookie being Mookie, it is completely irrelevant to how visions actually work in the plot, which is as a convenient dump of whatever Dominic wants to see right then and there 99% of the time. What it actually ends up being is an excuse for why Dominic is just so smart and the fetishization of
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Oct 24, 2020 09:01
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That actually sounds like a great setup for a fantasy detective series. Someone gets a vision, and then the plot revolves around researching where it was, who it was, what it means, how to stop it, etc. But of course, it's another dropped thread, like Star Power tracking down the rest of the sentinels and exploring the unknown universe. Edit:  He's not bad at conveying information and telling a story, it's just MYSTERIOUS! 
Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Oct 24, 2020 |
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Oct 24, 2020 14:29
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Staggy posted:There's one aspect of seers that Mookie introduced (and then promptly never visited again) later on in the original series, that I thought had potential. If I remember right, it boiled down to the idea that as most visions are random, there's a hell of a lot of work put into just identifying what you've actually seen, let alone interpreting it. The idea that you need to be widely read on things like architecture, fashion, zoology, etc. just to work out where your vision takes place could be an interesting piece of worldbuilding. It's a good hook for mysteries along the lines of "I saw the rare Blue Spotted Butterfly but that only lives in warmer climates and it was snowing outside, we're looking for a private collector in the mountains". His second sight is such a crutch, it's practically begging for a story arc where he loses it and realizes how incapable he is without it. All his hubris, all his misanthropy is built on the hollow foundation of a completely unearned super power.
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Oct 24, 2020 16:33
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Which is why this can't happen, of course. Dominic Deegan is the world's most perfect man, the world revolves around him, he is always right and he can do everything. Why would he need character growth when he is already perfect?
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Oct 24, 2020 16:42
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Fister Roboto posted:His second sight is such a crutch, it's practically begging for a story arc where he loses it and realizes how incapable he is without it. All his hubris, all his misanthropy is built on the hollow foundation of a completely unearned super power. Or learns that his second sight is actually an aberration in itself and has to either sacrifice the power entirely or have a crisis about continuing to use it - given the Beast's design so heavily featuring eyes, what if the Beast was revealed as the ~unsightly source of second sight~? Like every seer's 'gift' was basically him putting cameras down into the world. It also would make the 'the first vision was shared by all who would become seers at the same time' thing actually mean something beyond "Oh look how smart Dominic is for not putting his student down for figuring this out, even though Dominic already did", because that's when the Beast first grew powerful enough to reach out beyond the Elemecca the first time, and notice the potential of the mortal races.
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Oct 24, 2020 17:20
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I think even if Dominic’s visions are 100% accurate all the time a good writer can squeeze some story potential outta that by making the conflict come from him having to prove it. If Dominic’s just some loser from the boonies, what could he do to stop a powerful banker (or whatever Serk is. Is he just...a rich guy? Does he own land? What does he sell?) that has the government and media on his side? Instead Dominic is from a much more powerful family with far more influence. All good men trust him instinctually and all evil doers crumble at the sight of his big brain.
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Oct 24, 2020 17:59
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TheHan posted:I think even if Dominic’s visions are 100% accurate all the time a good writer can squeeze some story potential outta that by making the conflict come from him having to prove it. If Dominic’s just some loser from the boonies, what could he do to stop a powerful banker (or whatever Serk is. Is he just...a rich guy? Does he own land? What does he sell?) that has the government and media on his side? Instead Dominic is from a much more powerful family with far more influence. All good men trust him instinctually and all evil doers crumble at the sight of his big brain. What always bothered me as a writer was reading so many stories where the protagonist had to struggle to win. I believe that, in real life, good generally wins out. Good is powerful. I decided to turn this convention on its head and write a story that asks: what happens when evil is powerless against the hero? What if all the hero's struggles aren't physical, but, as fitting for a seer, philosophical conundrums, such as whether to forgive his girlfriend for having sex before they met, or if the existence of jocks means everyone deserves to die? All you have to do is take a trope, and turn it on its head!
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Oct 24, 2020 18:40
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"If I had a nickel every time a naked women I barely know started cuddling me while she was sleeping I would have two nickels--which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice" -Snout, probably Going back to the subject of reading, my first thought was, "Guys, of course Mookie reads! He has all the Dresdin Files books and has read them more than once." I honestly thought that was where the conversation was headed and I was prepared to be right.
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Oct 24, 2020 18:55
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Please, even that would be a step up. Harry Dresden at least suffers setbacks, including some where he's too clever for his own good and screws himself over. Dominic Deegan is more like Codex Alera: it starts with some interesting potential and ends with a DBZ Kamehameha fight against Kerrigan in the middle of a giant storm of nonsense. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Oct 24, 2020 |
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Oct 24, 2020 19:14
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TheHan posted:I think even if Dominic’s visions are 100% accurate all the time a good writer can squeeze some story potential outta that by making the conflict come from him having to prove it. If Dominic’s just some loser from the boonies, what could he do to stop a powerful banker (or whatever Serk is. Is he just...a rich guy? Does he own land? What does he sell?) that has the government and media on his side? Instead Dominic is from a much more powerful family with far more influence. All good men trust him instinctually and all evil doers crumble at the sight of his big brain. Yeah, one of the things that's caused some drama (the good kind of drama) in my D&D games is that in most nations, testimony gathered via speak with dead isn't admissible in court. So even if the dead guy tells you that Steve murdered him, now you have to go out and actually find evidence on Steve. It's even more applicable in 5e, where the corpse can willingly omit information or lie if it wants to. As someone else said, how common are Seers? Celesto seems to lived one town over from Dom, and one of his mother's students is also a Seer. If there's one in each class of the magic school, that could be like 1/40 people, not exactly rare.
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Oct 24, 2020 19:16
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Pyrotoad posted:Or learns that his second sight is actually an aberration in itself and has to either sacrifice the power entirely or have a crisis about continuing to use it - given the Beast's design so heavily featuring eyes, what if the Beast was revealed as the ~unsightly source of second sight~? Like every seer's 'gift' was basically him putting cameras down into the world. It also would make the 'the first vision was shared by all who would become seers at the same time' thing actually mean something beyond "Oh look how smart Dominic is for not putting his student down for figuring this out, even though Dominic already did", because that's when the Beast first grew powerful enough to reach out beyond the Elemecca the first time, and notice the potential of the mortal races. Hell, and the whole idea of a malevolent supernatural entity that can see every point in time and every possible future would also gel better with Mookie’s attempt to create a Lovecraftian monster than what we ultimately got. Plus it could retroactively make his Truth Beams much more horrifying by way of unknowingly showing the people hit by it “the truth” of the Beast’s existence, which invariably causes them to go insane, give themselves over to fulfilling the Beast’s agenda when the time is right, etc. Thus, Dominic has to grapple with the burden of knowing that he inadvertently created his own enemies for that final arc, including some of his friends and loved ones who he thought he was helping at the time.
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Oct 24, 2020 19:19
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I check up on legacy about once a month and every time I fail to learn my lesson. 
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Oct 24, 2020 20:27
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 why why has "satyrs and nymphs having fun sexy times" transformed into "flacid satyrs serenading ghosts" WHAT IS WRONG WITH MOOKIE'S BRAIN
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Oct 24, 2020 21:15
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Pyrotoad posted:-snip- TheHan posted:-snip- I don't think it's a stretch at all to say that literally every single person in this thread could write a better story. At every chance, Dominic Deegan takes the stupidest possible approach to the story. Even if we forced ourselves to keep somewhat close to the original, people have shown again and again that there are absolutely ways to take that germ of an idea and make something actually interesting with it.
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Oct 24, 2020 22:08
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catlord posted:I don't think it's a stretch at all to say that literally every single person in this thread could write a better story. Or at the very least a more interestingly bad story.
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Oct 24, 2020 23:23
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TheHan posted:I think even if Dominic’s visions are 100% accurate all the time a good writer can squeeze some story potential outta that by making the conflict come from him having to prove it. If Dominic’s just some loser from the boonies, what could he do to stop a powerful banker (or whatever Serk is. Is he just...a rich guy? Does he own land? What does he sell?) that has the government and media on his side? Instead Dominic is from a much more powerful family with far more influence. All good men trust him instinctually and all evil doers crumble at the sight of his big brain.
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Oct 24, 2020 23:31
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Is it bad if what really bothers me is that the satyr's balls are like, perfectly shaven within the mass of fur of the legs.
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Oct 25, 2020 01:25
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No, not at all. I guess he sat in gum.
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Oct 25, 2020 01:49
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Mister Olympus posted:weeaboomer Respectating this. Also, stealing it. Also what the hell is a "soft boy"? I'm not as up on these newfangled interwebs terms as I could be
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Oct 25, 2020 07:20
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Dalris Othaine posted:Respectating this. Also, stealing it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ing%C3%A9nue but this time a guy. In real life though, this innocent naivete is usually an act to seem non-threatening and get close to a women before getting all creepy. Essentially, Mookie has written a character who is asexual while he gets his jolllies off drawing naked ladies. It's so much more gross that Snout is portrayed as sincere in his soft boy ways, knowing that the author is sitting there with a hand down his pants imagining all these girls just flopping their tits over the protagonist. And jeez, there's nothing he can do about it! Snout is the soft boy fantasy, where his overwhelming pathetic cuteness and inability to deal with the world around him results in women literally stripping naked in front of him out of pity. Beelzebufo fucked around with this message at 08:35 on Oct 25, 2020 |
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Oct 25, 2020 07:42
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Dalris Othaine posted:Also what the hell is a "soft boy"? I'm not as up on these newfangled interwebs terms as I could be The pupal state of an incel.
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Oct 25, 2020 09:13
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Soft boy illustrated   any questions
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Oct 25, 2020 18:00
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He makes a sad puppy face every panel now.
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Oct 25, 2020 18:09
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Wasn't he dressed up as a satyr for his Halloween wedding?  I wish that reminder of threads past didn't pop into my head.
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Oct 25, 2020 21:15
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He was a werewolf, if I remember correctly. Why can I remember useless poo poo like that
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Oct 25, 2020 21:49
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