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90s Cringe Rock posted:so how is phoenix_shadowrun_v2(1)_FINAL_(1).xlsx coming along? The game to finally crash reality when someone tries to read and comprehend the rules.
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Oct 26, 2020 19:32
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Wrestlepig posted:SHADOWRUN 5E
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Oct 26, 2020 19:41
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JcDent posted:Good thing you don't go into shot weights and duplex loads. I have this, let me get where I can scan some choice pages.
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Oct 26, 2020 19:43
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All right, I want to scan the whole thing but that's cheating. Covers:   Strap in for the next two pages from the back:    It's not really worth writing up because it's just a bunch of tedious math. If you looked at 3E GURPS Vehicles or 3E Robots you get the idea. EDIT: Amusingly this same company did the RPG Macho Women with Guns, which tells you everything you need to know right in the title: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blacksburg_Tactical_Research_Center
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Oct 26, 2020 20:58
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...Prehistoric?
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Oct 26, 2020 21:17
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I thought those covers looked familiar. I've got one of their TimeLords modules kicking around.
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Oct 26, 2020 21:22
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Ithle01 posted:Hard disagree. you're probably right, reading this thing is giving me brain worms. I think it's generally going to get glossed over at least
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Oct 26, 2020 21:23
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Mors Rattus posted:...Prehistoric? Bieeanshee posted:I thought those covers looked familiar. I've got one of their TimeLords modules kicking around. They copy pasted the tech level scale from TimeLords.
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Oct 26, 2020 21:36
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Mors Rattus posted:...Prehistoric? Yeah, cro magnum man. 
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Oct 26, 2020 21:57
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In all the games of Shadowrun I've played I have never seen the choke used in a shotgun. The choice is basically choosing a wide cone or a long cone and it doesn't really ever matter at the ranges you do fights at. You never have to engage with the mechanic if you don't want to and I have never seen anyone bother in either of the editions I've played.
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Oct 26, 2020 22:22
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I think I paid for a cyber choke in one 2E game, but never actually used it. We mostly played theatre of the mind.
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Oct 26, 2020 22:24
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LeSquide posted:Yeah, cro magnum man. 
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Oct 26, 2020 22:24
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LeSquide posted:Yeah, cro magnum man. 
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Oct 26, 2020 22:41
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BTRC has the best PDFs in the TTRPG business: they have built-in die roller and character sheets that do all the calculations. I think that's first edition Guns, Guns, Guns, too. You missed the Vehicle Design System, too, which is a slightly simplified GURPS Vehicles.
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Oct 26, 2020 22:47
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SHADOWRUN 5e A single attack, part 2. We’ve now done the to hit roll. It’s time to sort out the damage. To figure out if the attack was successful or not, we compare the hits of each dicepool. If the attacker gets more hits than the defender, the attack is successful, and deals damage equal to the weapon’s damage as well as the net hits after taking away the defense. If the defender gets more successes, we’re done, it’s a miss. If they’re equal, it’s a grazing hit: It doesn’t do damage, but counts as a hit for on-contact stuff like poison. In the running example, we got 5 hits on the attack, and 2 on the defense, so it’s 3 net hits for our street sam. We now need to check how much damage we deal, and how much the ganger’s armour helps out. The samurai is packing an Ares Alpha, which has 11 points of damage and 2 armour penetration. We add our successes to the damage and get 14 as our starting point, and then we check how much the armour stops. Our ganger has a patchwork armor giving 9 points of armor value, which is reduced to 7 by the attack’s armor penetration. Let’s get calculating, since it’s not so simple as ‘subtract 1 from the other.’ First, we need to see if the armor is solid enough to turn the damage to stun. If the modified armor value is higher than the damage coming through, it gets turned to stun damage, no matter what happens, which is a big benefit for having a lot of armor on. Now if there’s any armor left, the defender rolls a dicepool of Body + Whatever armor came through after that. Every hit on that reduces the damage by one. Our ganger’s pretty tough and has a 4 for body, so they roll 11 dice and get 3 hits, reducing the damage to 11. These guys only have 10 hit points, so he’s hosed, but I’m going to go over a couple of other things that may be relevant. We’re up to the final letter: Apply Effects. First you apply the damage to the relevant health track. There’s a few slightly different ones depending on what you are or what you’re doing. People generally have two: A Stun health bar and a physical health bar. Stun is dealt by a bunch of stuff, and is based on willpower. Once it fills up, it overflows into Physical damage at a 2 for 1 rate. I’m not sure how you knock someone out. Physical damage is based off your Body, and once it runs out, you start dying. You can go past zero by up to your Body stat, and if it goes past that, you’re dead unless you permanently burn a point of edge. We’ll talk more about healing later, my commitment to going sideways for complex rules and subsystems can only go so far. Importantly, taking damage gives you a Wound penalty. Every 3 points of damage, or more if you have cyber limbs and a couple other things, gives you a -1 dicepool penalty to basically everything except damage resistance rolls. It’s easy to track, at least. Replace your skull if it's a big deal. As well as checking that, you need to check for Knockdown. If you take more damage from a single attack than your physical limit, or a net damage of 10, you get knocked to the ground and go Prone. Standing up is a simple action, and if you’re wounded it’s a very simple roll for some reason. It really doesn’t matter unless you’re in very close range: Being Prone doesn’t really do anything as far as I can tell aside from give a modifier to hit if close up. There’s nothing about reduced move speeds or whatever, so get crawling. There’s also special gel rounds that do less damage but are good at knocking people down for a versatile non-lethal action. If you’ve got a different damage type, this is when you’re going to sort out that. Mostly this is poo poo for wizards and Gms, but a couple are going to matter. >ACID is brutal: It reduces armor by 1 (probably permanently), and if it isn’t removed, it deals damage again, going down by 1 point of damage and still eating armor, over and over. Fortunately acid mostly comes from magic so it dissapears when the magic runs out. If you get acid on you, you’re probably hosed, since even the most diligent shadowrunners probably don’t bring enough cleaning supplies to get it off in 3 seconds. >COLD (proper cold attacks, generally not wintery conditions) is generally physical and fucks up materials: Any materials or armor hit by it need to roll their armor value, if there’s no successes, it breaks and needs repairs. Rare outside of magic, there’s no freeze ray in the core book. >ELECTRICITY is very common and useful: A lot of runners are going to pack a tazer or something. Getting zapped gives a -1 penalty to any sort of active role (not other armor checks or something) and reduces initiative. You can’t give a bigger penalty, but you can make it last longer. The other important thing is it fries electronics: Drones and devices take an extra half of the physical damage to their Matrix HP track (more on that later, but basically what you’d imagine from fried circuits and things.) >FIRE: It lights people on fire. You have to check Armor + Fire Resistance (mostly an upgrade for armor) and subtract the fire’s armor penetration. The armor penetration is the force of the spell, 2 for a regular fire, or 6 if it’s a flamethrower. Being on fire starts with 3 damage, and goes up every turn unless you put it out. the book posted:Remember, as long as the fire is burning it can ignite any nearby flammables, including furniture, vehicles, foliage, and elves. There’s rules for fall damage, hostile environments and resource deprivation. Nothing’s special about them. Sprinting can cause stun damage if you do it too much. So that’s everything that can come up in a regular attack, give or take a couple tangents. This ganger’s dead. In game, this whole process covered three seconds. Next time: Basic Combat Roundup! Grappling, cover, and more. I have been fairly nice to the game so far. This will stop. EthanSteele posted:In all the games of Shadowrun I've played I have never seen the choke used in a shotgun. The choice is basically choosing a wide cone or a long cone and it doesn't really ever matter at the ranges you do fights at. You never have to engage with the mechanic if you don't want to and I have never seen anyone bother in either of the editions I've played. yeah its not something that's going to come up often: the default is solid slug rounds, flechettes are kind of niche since most things have plenty of armor.
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Oct 27, 2020 00:58
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In 2e and 3e days, electric attacks would also cause a body check to see if you ended up twitching on the ground, stunned, for a few rounds. Nonconductive body armor was popular.
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Oct 27, 2020 01:42
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Wrestlepig posted:yeah its not something that's going to come up often: the default is solid slug rounds, flechettes are kind of niche since most things have plenty of armor. So it no longer has two kinds of armor, with flechettes being better against one kind and worse against the other?
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Oct 27, 2020 01:47
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Mors Rattus posted:...Prehistoric? 
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Oct 27, 2020 03:24
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Phanatic posted:So it no longer has two kinds of armor, with flechettes being better against one kind and worse against the other? It's just the one armor, outside of stuff like fire resistance or whatever. Flechettes give a damage boost but have terrible armor penetration. There's a bunch of different ammo types, I didn't mention them before because I forgot. Mostly they're just minor damage/armor penetration variants with a couple nonlethal options. Stick N Shock rounds are pretty wild, you get a lot of AP rounds. Tracer rounds increase accuracy if you're shooting full auto for some reason, and there's prohibitively expensive APDS rounds with -4 AP extra. Most people might grab something non-lethal really, they're just more "Nuyen is the only form of advancement you'll really see". Also I'm pretty sure you need to actually buy seperate box magazines to contain all the bullets, even though each costs 5 nuyen and is not restricted. I'm enjoying all the past edition horror story stuff a lot.
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Oct 27, 2020 04:43
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SHADOWRUN 5e Combat roundup: Extra rules for things. We’ve covered a basic attack. Now lets get to Complex attacks. Firstly, there’s grappling. It’s under the heading of Subduing, but specifically covers unarmed attacks. It's just grappling. You need to succeed on an unarmed attack. Then, if your Strength + Net hits is above the target’s physical limit, you get a lock on them that immobilises them. They can’t move or take any action that requires physical movement. Once you have the grip, you can maintain it with a complex action each turn, as well as take a special action against them until you drop them or they break out with a roll. This is actually less complex than attacking since it doesn’t care about armor, really. Unfortunately what you actually do with it sucks. You have 3 things you can do with them: One of them is just beat them and flat-out deal your strength in damage, minus their armor roll, and that’s fine. The other ones are to get a superior position or to throw them to the ground for no damage, and neither of those do anything since the target’s not able to defend already and you aren’t rolling anything to attack them. Just have someone else shoot them. I’m pretty sure they still get to roll dodge, but they’re effectively prone and in melee so their dice pool is going to be tanked. This is the only way to subdue someone non-lethally. I can’t find anything on just knocking people out with a tazer or some other Stun source of damage. Reading this book always inspires a thought of “This has to be here somewhere, right?” This is a good point to talk about healing and medicine. You have first aid, which just heals boxes of damage but has to be done pretty close to the time of incident, and can only be done once per set of injuries. You recover naturally over time, which is an extended test that goes over the course of days of just rest. Fortunately, you can boost it with Medicine checks from someone helping you out. Generally there’s a lot of penalties that can happen for poor conditions, as well as the patient being heavily enhanced or magically awakened, but good facilities and a quality medkit or AutoDoc drone can boost this pretty well. Alternatively a wizard can cast heal. If you’re out of hp you also need to get stabilized by another check. It’s complex, but not in a way I dislike: there’s simple methods available, the downtime isn’t a big issue and if you want to be a medicine-focused character, like a Docwagon paramedic or Cyberpunk 2020 style Ripperdoc, you have enough crunch going on to make it interesting to do. Alternatively just have it be “Heal between missions.” I said I was going to be mean about things earlier, so lets start talking about Barriers. Unlike people, barriers have a Structure stat instead of Body, as well as armor. They also have HP based on each square meter and 10 centimeters of thickness has a HP equal to the structure rating. You measured that, right? No word on how it works if it’s not ten centimeters thick, like a door or something. I guess it’s time for dividing poo poo. If it’s totally opaque, the attacker has a -6 penalty (no word for ultrasound or thermal or any other method of detection) but the defender doesn’t roll to dodge. If you shoot through the barrier, it rolls basically the same thing as an armor check (Structure plus armor, minus whatever armor penetration) and then anything left over goes through and attacks the person on the other side. This adds another 10 dice at least to every roll. It also gets weird with partial cover, which is normally a sensible penalty to the to-hit roll. If I miss on that, does the cover matter? The chart for stuff is mostly useless as well outside of demolitions, and has weird poo poo like chain link fences being as much protection as a tree. It gets even fiddlier if it’s a penetrating weapon, like any sort of gun or blade. If the damage value is higher than the armor value after all that, it just does 1 point of damage to the barrier and then the rest goes straight through. So all of that stuff before about calculating damage doesn’t really matter 99 percent of the time. Metahuman shields follow the same rules, but use the Body stat instead of Structure, and obviously damage the person if they’re still alive. Don’t worry, you do get to derive an agility and reaction modifier from the difference between your strength and the body of the target. If you’re outright trying to destroy a barrier, it always hits unless there’s a critical glitch, but you roll to see how many successes you get. Explosives deal double damage. If you get damage through the defense, you then need to calculate the size of the hole by dividing the damage dealt by the structure of the object. Barriers are just too complicated even for my level of tolerance, just make it a simple modifier to the to-hit or armor roll. This just sucks for the table, even video games don’t get this complex about it. Explosives. Lets talk about them. To attack with a grenade or missile or whatever, roll a simple action of Throwing or Heavy Weaponry + Agility with all the regular attack modifiers. If you get 3 or more, it goes where you want. It’s pretty easy to hit the mark, since the target doesn’t have any inherent dodge stuff. If you don’t though, it’s time to check for Scattering like it’s warhammer.  this chart is first seen as vonnegut's drawing of an rear end in a top hat First the GM rolls 2d6 and compares it to the diagram, with the seven as further away and 2/12 going back towards the thrower. Then you figure out how far it scatters by a variable amount of meters based on what sort of launcher, with throwing the most accurate. Once you’ve figured out the exact location of the grenade, we double check what sort of triggering mechanism to figure out what it does. Explosives with a regular timer explode next turn at the initiative it was thrown -10, so keep track of that. I miss Dungeons and Dragons having “At the end of their next turn” as a standard block of phrasing. If you have a motion sensor, the whole thing works a bit differently and you roll a regular attack. If it misses outright it scatters, otherwise it just blows up once it stops moving. Wireless grenades blow up when you want them to: You can trigger them with a simple action or a free one if it’s all wireless. You probably aren’t doing this so hackers don’t turn your grenades on in your pocket. Why the gently caress do we have this? You’ve got a perfectly fine system for it going bad: Glitches! Just do a regular attack roll, if it’s a glitch it goes somewhere bad, if it’s a critical glitch it goes towards you! None of this is necessary. Now that the grenade’s landed, we need to figure out damage based on how far the target is from the point of impact. There’s a chart of these in the inventory section so go there. But then if you’re in a confined space, you test if it breaks any of the walls with those barrier rules. If those break, they break, but if they don’t, the explosive force reflects backwards and adds its damage to the previous total. This ends up with absurd damage and calculations, especially since the rules say it can bounce of each wall, roof and floor, which does an absurd amount of damage if the GM can be bothered calculating the damage to the ground and then going nah, I’m going to pretend we don’t effectively double grenade damage most times. Again, this could easily just be a flat damage bonus or something. This is just dumb. Another important thing is Surprise rules. Ambushes are a huge deal, Shadowrunners are constantly getting jumped or betrayed, or sneaking around and all that. There isn’t really a rule for what triggers a surprise, though you’d know it when you see it. It does encourage Gms to give players a perception check to see if something’s up, and you can spend edge to avoid it. When the surprise starts, everyone involved (including the ambushers) rolls Reaction + Intuition with a target number of 3. If someone’s alerted, they get 3 extra dice, and if they’re doing the ambush they get an extra 6 (its not clear if that includes the 3 from knowing what’s going on). If you don’t get enough successes you’re surprised until your next action. That means you cannot roll any sort of dodge, cannot act based on anyone who isn’t surprised and loses 10 points of initiative. No wonder every shadowrun story is “And then I covered my rear end a bunch and snuck around”, ambushes are going to mess you up. The rules work well enough if you’re on board for the brutality. Other than that, there’s a couple minor things. The main one is Sensors for vehicles and things locking onto targets. If you hit with a roll against whatever the defence is depending if its a vehicle, biological creature or drone, and then you can use it to target things better. You can always do Passive Targeting, which replaces the weapon’s accuracy with your sensors and lets you use Logic as the attack stat, but tanks the whole thing by applying a modifier that penalises anything capable of evading, or Active Targeting that reduces the defence roll of the target if it hits. Not really worth caring about unless you’re a rigger, at least. It’s vehicle stuff with too many moving parts, like the vehicle rules in general. That’s combat, basically. Everything needs an edit pass, including just tearing down the side stuff and making it as simple as possible. I like a crunch, but there’s no elegance to this, and you probably aren’t making interesting choices turn-by-turn. It comes down to setup and the tools available for you. Also get rid of everything being in meters. Shadowrun is a game where a lot of emergent bullshit can happen: schemes, new obstacles and opponents, wild environmental effects, whatever. It needs to be flexible, so all the stuff that adds new steps and having everything need to be precisely measured just tanks the flow. Next Time: Jack in your trodes, we’re gonna surf the matrix, hotsim to the maxx, decker
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Oct 27, 2020 04:50
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As far as ammo goes, outside of specific applications (like wood pulp for vampires) you're going to haul stick-n-shock/gel for nonlethal, explosive or ex-ex for as lethal as possible, or something with extremely high AP for "I didn't need to meet something with that much Hardened Armor tonight but I may as well hurt it before I die."
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Oct 27, 2020 04:58
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90s Cringe Rock posted:so how is phoenix_shadowrun_v2(1)_FINAL_(1).xlsx coming along? I'm still struggling to find a good way to handle variable aim times, but I have a good idea of how to model external and terminal ballistics. Oh wait, you were joking. Ha ha, very funny, I definitely don't have a fetish for spreadsheets.
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Oct 27, 2020 08:34
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Wrestlepig posted:SHADOWRUN 5e Well that's just loving embarrassing. I went and checked 4th and 6th editions, and the answer is: "When all of the available boxes in a track (Physical or Stun) are filled in, the character immediately falls unconscious and drops to the ground. If the Stun track is filled in, the character is merely knocked out. If the Physical track is filled in, however, the character is near death and will die unless stabilized" It also used to be on the character sheet near the boxes as well, which is also missing in 5th edition.
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Oct 27, 2020 14:48
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Wrestlepig posted:There's a bunch of different ammo types, I didn't mention them before because I forgot. Mostly they're just minor damage/armor penetration variants with a couple nonlethal options. I always liked the DMSO squirt gun you could load with the entertaining medication of your choice. Wrestlepig posted:Tracer rounds increase accuracy if you're shooting full auto for some reason, Because you can see where your rounds are going and walk them into the target. The grenade scatter chart is something that goes back to AD&D and it's to reflect the imprecise nature of grenade-like-weapons, which were things like phials of holy water or medieval Molotov cocktails and such. A timed grenade is going to bounce and skitter around after it lands, no matter how accurately you threw it. (And in the completely-unnecessary roll department, in AD&D if you threw a glass bottle of holy water at something then even if you rolled a hit you then had to roll a saving throw for the bottle to check to see if it actually shattered). In 1st Edition of Shadowrun, weapons had damage categories intstead of values, like 3L2. The first number was a target value for what was called staging, the letter was the damage category (Light, Medium, Serious, Deadly), and the third number was also for staging. A light wound corresponded to a single box on the damage monitor, M was 3, S was 7, and D was an all-ten instakill. So what would happen the attacker's successes would stage the damage up by one category for each n successes, where n is the third number, and the target's successes would stage it back down for each n successes. So you could just flat-out kill someone with a little hold-out pistol with a damage code of L if you were able to just roll a shitload of dice. Then in later editions they just set that third number to 2 for everything and did away with it, so damage codes turned into 4M instead of 4M3. Phanatic fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Oct 27, 2020 |
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Oct 27, 2020 15:32
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Wait, wait, so prone, number #1 gunfighter skill for "poo poo, this is better than no cover" situations and accurate fire, only makes you easier to hit up close, and nothing else? What the gently caress? Also, are elves actually inflammable going by the rules, or is it just a joke?
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Oct 27, 2020 17:21
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JcDent posted:Wait, wait, so prone, number #1 gunfighter skill for "poo poo, this is better than no cover" situations and accurate fire, only makes you easier to hit up close, and nothing else? What the gently caress? bad rules organization strikes again - prone does have a defensive benefit in ranged combat but for some bizarre reason it's listed under "Defender/Target Has Good Cover" DEFENDER/TARGET HAS GOOD COVER (page 190) posted:If the Defender uses a Take Cover action to get behind something where more than fifty percent of the defender’s body is obscured by intervening terrain or cover, he gains a +4 dice pool modifier to his Defense roll against any attack. This modifier can also apply to prone targets that are at least twenty meters away from their attackers. This modifier is applicable to both Ranged Combat and Spellcasting. so it's technically in there, but I only found it because I was able to do a text search of a digital file for something I was pretty sure had to exist e: otoh it does look like Stun damage knocking you out is genuinely missing - it's implied in a few places (Survival skill description on page 137, the Stunball spell description on page 285, Resist Pain spell description on 289, Water Engulf on page 396, Adrenaline Pump description on 459, ) astrally disrupted living creatures with a full Stun condition monitor are explicitly knocked unconscious (page 316), but that could be interpreted as applying to that specific situation only LGD fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Oct 27, 2020 |
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Oct 27, 2020 17:43
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Prone also gives a benefit specifically against suppressive fire. The entire book is terribly laid out.
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Oct 27, 2020 17:52
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Wrestlepig posted:This is the only way to subdue someone non-lethally. I can’t find anything on just knocking people out with a tazer or some other Stun source of damage. Reading this book always inspires a thought of “This has to be here somewhere, right?” This is not right. You subdue someone non-lethally if their Stun damage track is filled and subdue them lethally (or at least they are dying) if their Physical track is filled. It should be under the damage rules rather than specific weapons and techniques because its a function of the overall damage mechanics. Gel rounds and tasers do Stun damage and that's how they're non-lethal. LGD posted:bad rules organization strikes again - prone does have a defensive benefit in ranged combat but for some bizarre reason it's listed under "Defender/Target Has Good Cover" This is the biggest crime for 5e, its one of the worst edited books ever with the rules and tables spread out and really poorly organized. Why is that modifier not listed in the table of modifiers? Why have a table of modifiers if you're not going to have all the modifiers in there?
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Oct 27, 2020 17:54
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EthanSteele posted:This is not right. You subdue someone non-lethally if their Stun damage track is filled and subdue them lethally (or at least they are dying) if their Physical track is filled. It should be under the damage rules rather than specific weapons and techniques because its a function of the overall damage mechanics. Gel rounds and tasers do Stun damage and that's how they're non-lethal. no, they appear to be correct re: 5e RAW just because that's how it works in every other edition of Shadowrun, that's how we all "know" it works in 5e, and that's what the rest of the book assumes to be the case in multiple locations does not mean it's actually a written rule anywhere in the 5e corebook look at page 169/170 and then peruse the rest of the book trying to find anything explicitly stating that filled stun condition monitor = unconscious
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Oct 27, 2020 18:01
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Yeah, it's "provisionally" covered in the errata. Which is a pain to find because they decided a forums thread was the best way to do errata.
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Oct 27, 2020 18:12
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Jesus, so it is how it works, its just not in the book at base? Oof its even worse than I thought. There's also a bunch of bits where it was obviously copy pasted from a previous edition with no changes despite the stat+skill system being different.
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Oct 27, 2020 18:14
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It's a double crime because itxs a very beautiful book otherwise.
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Oct 27, 2020 18:17
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God, just give it to Pegasus. Tar and feather the fools at Catalyst and let people who actually care about the game control it.
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Oct 27, 2020 18:32
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You still holdin' out for good things to happen? Amateur!
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Oct 27, 2020 19:27
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At this point I'd put my faith in Fragged Cyberpunk and just use that to play Shadowrun with. Wonder if it'd allow you to mash in stuff from the other Fragged Engine games or not.
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Oct 27, 2020 19:30
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senrath posted:Prone also gives a benefit specifically against suppressive fire. The entire book is terribly laid out. This one is just me not talking about suppressive fire. It's not that interesting beyond using Edge as part of a standard dicepool. You shoot 20 bullets in a cone and check your hits, anyone getting suppressed has a penalty to everything equal to those hits unless they're totally unaware. If you move or are exposed when inside the area, you have to defend with Reaction + Edge vs the hits on the suppressive fire. You fail, you get hit. You can avoid this by going prone In another editing win, the reference to what going prone does leads to the entire section on ranged modifiers rather than being Prone. As far as I can tell there's no move penalty to being prone anyway. Phanatic posted:I always liked the DMSO squirt gun you could load with the entertaining medication of your choice. That ones cool but it's an exotic weapon, I think, so it's probably not worth it. If I wanted to dose people, I'd get syringe rounds in a crossbow or gas grenades LGD posted:no, they appear to be correct re: 5e RAW This is going to come up a bit. I don't have any prior shadowrun experience, so I'm going to miss that context. I hope a new player perspective is more than just frustrating
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Oct 27, 2020 21:43
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Wrestlepig posted:This is going to come up a bit. I don't have any prior shadowrun experience, so I'm going to miss that context. I hope a new player perspective is more than just frustrating It's perfect for a review, that it's missing core rules is one of the things you should be talking about.
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Oct 27, 2020 23:48
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Wrestlepig posted:That ones cool but it's an exotic weapon, I think, so it's probably not worth it. If I wanted to dose people, I'd get syringe rounds in a crossbow or gas grenades Reminds me of the time our extremely overbuilt troll got some syringe arrows built for his bow. Said bow was a demonstration prop made by a materials company to show off a new material and required something like strength 10 to even draw it. He shot a fully armored blacksite guard with a syringe full of horse tranquilizers. The arrow punched through the guy's armor, the entire stun track, and killed the dude with overflow, then he got enough tranquilizer to kill a Clydesdale. We weren't great at stealth.
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Oct 27, 2020 23:57
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EthanSteele posted:Jesus, so it is how it works, its just not in the book at base? Oof its even worse than I thought. There's also a bunch of bits where it was obviously copy pasted from a previous edition with no changes despite the stat+skill system being different. Yeah, I remembered how it worked from previous editions, so I was sure it was in the 5th edition just in a weird spot. But nope, it got completely dropped from the book somehow which is all kinds of amazing. Wrestlepig posted:This is going to come up a bit. I don't have any prior shadowrun experience, so I'm going to miss that context. I hope a new player perspective is more than just frustrating The new player perspective is fantastic and part of the fun for one of these reviews, especially when it comes to a game with multiple editions.
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Oct 28, 2020 03:44
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SHADOWRUN 5E Vehicles Ok the matrix is gonna wait because I forgot about cars and poo poo. To be fair, the heading for the vehicle section is in the bottom right hand corner of a page. Some matrix stuff is going to tie into vehicles, as well as Riggers after all that, so I need to get it out of the way. Vehicles are a collection of a few different stats, generally equivalent to what you’d have for gear or characters. >HANDLING: Sets a Limit for maneuverability-based tests. You want to stunt, this is the max you can roll. >SPEED: Top speed is a limit to Speed-related tests, generally races. >ACCELERATION: Basically Agility for cars, sets how much you can move in a turn. >BODY: Same as people, really. Vehicles take damage in basically the same way as people, but have more health and ignore stun outside of electricity. Drones are the same but have a little less health. >Armor: Same as Armor for everything else. >PILOT: A general rating of the inbuilt autopilot everything has in Cyberpunk. If nobody’s driving, this is all the stats that’d come from a person. >SENSOR: Essentially a limit for perception related tests and things. Difficulties for vehicles are pretty steady: You don’t check for general things unless you explicitly took incompetency in it and aren’t on autopilot, and most rolls are the Vehicle Skill + Reaction with Handling as the cap. It gets to around 4 hits as the target for extreme stunts, and Riggers can reduce the difficulty by the rating of their Control Rig. We’ll chat about Riggers later. There are pretty standard modifiers based on terrain and general circumstances. Unusually though these often impact the maximum hits rather than the actual amount of dice. It’s rare that the modifiers are going to change outside of damage, so it’s all pretty simple at this point. Make sure to be in AR or VR while driving, since that’s basically free boosts to handling. Vehicles get their own set of Actions for combat, but there’s nothing too involved. The driver does need to spend at least 1 complex action a turn to keep driving the vehicle, or else everyone inside gets a penalty to their dicepools, and at the end of the turn control goes to the autopilot and starts driving sensibly or nothing happens. This seems weird that it isn’t assumed. Especially when there’s also a move for “Do a Vehicle Test” or “Fire your Gun”. Vehicle tests does cover cool stunt stuff, but also is going to be a reaction to obstacles, which really doesn’t match. I have no idea how this works for Drones, which are sort of vehicles but also not. Fortunately most drivers are going to be in VR mode and getting that boosted initiative, so they probably get a couple actions, but it seems like most drivers are just going to pay a Fun Tax every turn. I’d probably lump the explicit driving actions in together, but thread title. You can also Ram people. It’s a melee attack that has to go against someone close enough to the vehicle, and is rolled with Reaction+Vehicle Skill as the weapon. It also can’t be parried or blocked. Damage is based off the Body stat with a multiplier based on speed. The advice on how much you can change in speed in a turn is “GM figures it out based on what’s reasonable” So damage on this can get Bonkers, since most cars have a minimum of like 8 body. You need to see if you can keep control, and there’s a good chance you’re going to crash. If a vehicle gets rammed, it’s an opposed check and if it succeeds, the target vehicle takes Body plus hits in damage, and the ramming vehicle takes half their body. Crashes aren’t actually listed as part of the Ramming rules despite what the crash rules say, but they also just happen when the GM says so, mostly for failed tests. Being in a crash hurts: every passenger takes damage equal to the vehicle’s body stat and with 6 AP, and can give a penalty for a few turns after for getting rattled. Vehicles can get hacked as well, and while it’s not super easy to swerve a car off the road, it’s going to be a huge deal when it does. Chases are comparatively simple in the rules: Either it’s a chase where speed or handling matters more, and you’ve got a few simple enough actions to gain or lose distance, or force a crash. Passengers don’t really get any special actions, just tweaks to their usual stuff. Suppressive fire is a bit different: It can hit everyone in a vehicle and they can’t fall prone, but the targets get a defensive bonus based off the vehicle kinda like being in cover. I’m pretty sure there’s something broken in this, from memory, but it all seems fine. Vehicle movement doesn’t need 3 different options really but it's all relatively consistent Next time: I actually talk hacking
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Oct 28, 2020 04:17
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