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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:How was thermal performance? If it's effective at keeping components cool as well I might actually be interested in this for my next PC. Thermal performance will largely be up to the AIBs--we have no idea right now. At 300+W, though, don't expect it to be much easier to cool than a 3080.
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Oct 28, 2020 17:36
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So how long now until Nvidia counters with these emergency SKUs?
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Oct 28, 2020 17:37
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ehhhhh I'd rather have an RTX 3070 but I'm also not going to be able to get one of those for months... if there's 6800XT stock available on launch (lol there won't be), and the 3rd party benchmarks aren't bad, I might get that one instead.
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Oct 28, 2020 17:37
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Mukaikubo posted:ehhhhh This is precisely what I'm talking about. People will buy these cards if nvidia can't supply theirs. With that price/performance, nvidia has a headache.
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Oct 28, 2020 17:38
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I just don't get the stack. The 6800XT is simply too close to the 3080 given the software differential imo. The 6900 is pretty sweet and I maintain that it's excellent for competition but are the whales really going to get one vs. a 3090, even at a much lower price? They want the best, not vague promises that FidelityFX will someday be good. Time will tell I guess.
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Oct 28, 2020 17:38
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Nothing in there made me regret buying a 3090. AMD has similar raster performance, but I don't think thats the end all be all this gen. In any AAA game with raytracing, DLSS will most likely be enabled (3 of 4 AAA games coming out the end of this year have it), which will help performance. AMD skipped over the RT performance. otherwise, the feature stack on ampere seems better, and I don't trust AMD driver support anyway. They competed against a stock 3080, and for the 3090 they had to enable their special features, but not enable the 3090 features.
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Oct 28, 2020 17:38
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MikeC posted:No new upsampling of any sort at launch. GG. again, machine-learning supersampling probably will not produce good speedups until AMD implements their own matrix-math cores, and if they do come up with a simplified/pruned "DLSS 1.9" style model that produces an approximated output then (a) quality is not going to be as good as the full net, and (b) NVIDIA, having hardware acceleration, is going to get even higher speedups from the simplified net. "but what if they make a breakthrough and come up with a non-neural net based model": well, people have been bashing their heads against this problem for a long time, it's not super likely "but what if NVIDIA is sandbagging and the model is more complex than it has to be": well, then they're reducing the speedups they're getting from DLSS, a headline feature that they're trying to sell, and if AMD does come up with something drastically better, then NVIDIA benefits too, having hardware acceleration benefits them regardless of whose model it's running, whether that's "DLSS 2.0" or "Microsoft MLSS". AMD hosed up and didn't see the merits of tensor cores, that's why they're rushing RDNA3 to market within a year rather than the normal 2 year cycle.
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Oct 28, 2020 17:39
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This thread was tripping over itself to praise nvidia keeping the prices so low on their 3000 line, so I'm a bit confused by the negative response on the cheaper 6800XT? Is this all about DLSS?
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Oct 28, 2020 17:39
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:DLSS or not, if the AMD cards are available, they are getting sold to people who would have otherwise bought 3080/3090s. That's the long and short of it. NVidia has been pretty clear between Turing and Ampere that they're not terribly interested in just pushing forward raw raster performance anymore. Instead they're investing a lot more of their R&D money into stuff like RT and the DLSS software stack. Which is why it looks like AMD didn't show anything but raw raster performance, and possibly not on an even playing field--they've caught up to an area NVidia isn't paying all that much attention to. On the upside, it could very well mean that the 6900XT is a great buy if you only want to play older DX11 titles at 4k@144Hz or whatever.
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Oct 28, 2020 17:40
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:This is precisely what I'm talking about. People will buy these cards if nvidia can't supply theirs. With that price/performance, nvidia has a headache. If you don't care about high fps in RT gaming then sure, buy AMD. Otherwise, wave off until they show their upscaling tech and it is tested.
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Oct 28, 2020 17:40
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Mikojan posted:This thread was tripping over itself to praise nvidia keeping the prices so low on their 3000 line, so I'm a bit confused by the negative response on the cheaper 6800XT? The AMD software stack is garbage in comparison so they literally must sell at a significantly lower price point or be significantly faster. Or as Zed said maybe people will be impatient and buy it because they don't want to wait for an Ampere.
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Oct 28, 2020 17:40
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I agree that the non-XT 6800 looks kinda pointless - 3070 is probably a better buy there.
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Oct 28, 2020 17:41
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Taima posted:I just don't get the stack. The stack is 100% "we're hoping NVidia will continue to have supply issues, because otherwise none of this makes any sense other than maybe the 6900XT". Alternately: "we know NVidia has supply issues right now, so we're gonna drop these cards at the highest prices we think we can get away with while that's still the case, and the minute Ampere cards stay in stock for more than 5 minutes at a time we'll start price-cutting down to a more competitive range."
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Oct 28, 2020 17:42
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Mikojan posted:
DLSS is a revolutionary technology because it allows you to render fewer pixels without reducing image quality in a noticeable way. That's an instant universal performance improvement with no real downside for any game that supports it. I personally am unimpressed with ray tracing but I think DLSS will be huge, especially as time goes on and games get more demanding
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Oct 28, 2020 17:42
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Mikojan posted:This thread was tripping over itself to praise nvidia keeping the prices so low on their 3000 line, so I'm a bit confused by the negative response on the cheaper 6800XT? Yes yes yes. They cant offer 'usable' frame rates with ray tracing turned on. Hence no slides show head to head RT performance to Nvidia. If you are ok with 30 to 60 fps at 1440p or something, go buy a console. This is a very bad showing.
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Oct 28, 2020 17:42
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Taima posted:The AMD software stack is garbage in comparison so they literally must sell at a significantly lower price point or be significantly faster. You'd think "make the software better" would be easier than "make the GPU significantly better" but here we are
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Oct 28, 2020 17:43
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Wait they had no RT benchmarks at all?
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Oct 28, 2020 17:44
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MikeC posted:If you don't care about high fps in RT gaming then sure, buy AMD. Otherwise, wave off until they show their upscaling tech and it is tested. 65% of people on Steam H/W survey play @ 1080p - if you subtract at least the 10% that are laptop users (1366x768 are almost all laptops), its 72% of assumed desktop users. 1440p gets you 80% of the desktop market. 2160p is <2.5% Not arguing with your point just saying this is a huge market that I think we goons as Hardware Informed Often With Disposable Income dont realize that we're part of like 2-7% of the market.
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Oct 28, 2020 17:45
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No answer to Nvidia Broadcast either
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Oct 28, 2020 17:45
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Mikojan posted:This thread was tripping over itself to praise nvidia keeping the prices so low on their 3000 line, so I'm a bit confused by the negative response on the cheaper 6800XT? I would say so. If DLSS ends up being common in the next few years, it's a real big deal. If it flops and/or people are wrong about RTX for whatever reason (which I don't think they are - it's just not something that's been super well implemented in much yet because nobody could use it), AMD is a better traditional product. If this same fight were had in, say 2014 and RTX/DLSS weren't factors, AMD would really be quite competitive. I think there's a good deal of focus on RTX and DLSS as well because otherwise, it's just some quite fast cards, and frankly, if you have a 10x0 or 20x0 card and aren't using 4k, you probably don't *really* need the speed just yet. You will, certainly, but the features themselves are a real draw if they end up being commonly adopted. Also, as a person who preordered CP2077 the second I could (in like 1920), even I'm laughing a bit at the possibility that the game sucks rear end somehow and we've all just spend upwards of $800-1500 on cards for it.
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Oct 28, 2020 17:46
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Lets not forget that in order to get the performance advertised you need to buy a Zen 3 processor and a 500 series chipset. If you don't those numbers get worse.
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Oct 28, 2020 17:46
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Is there any point to DLSS when most of us are targeting 1440p/144Hz anyway?
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Oct 28, 2020 17:47
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both next-gen consoles use AMD GPUs, correct? doesnt that make it more likely their upsampling tech will see wider adoption than DLSS? that of course doesn't mean AMD's upsampling will be nearly as good, but from an adoption standpoint, AMD seems to be in an advantageous position...right? or is there something i'm missing?
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Oct 28, 2020 17:47
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sean10mm posted:Wait they had no RT benchmarks at all? Nope. Which strongly implies it's poo poo compared to Ampere, which is something that's been broadly expected for some time. AMD has caught up on raw raster performance (which is good!), but is still at least one generation behind on RT, and doesn't have a viable DLSS competitor, which means it's gonna be a bad day for Radeons trying to do RT gaming.
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Oct 28, 2020 17:48
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This seems like the anti Zen 3 launch, where they were like YEAH HERE’S HOW MUCH BETTER WE ARE AT LITERALLY EVERYTHING, EAT poo poo INTEL FUCKBOIS while this is just bitchmade weasel words and extreme cherry picking.
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Oct 28, 2020 17:48
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bus hustler posted:65% of people on Steam H/W survey play @ 1080p - if you subtract at least the 10% that are laptop users (1366x768 are almost all laptops), its 72% of assumed desktop users. 1440p gets you 80% of the desktop market. 2160p is <2.5% While I agree with this sentiment, no one who isn't part of that segment is buying any $500+ card.
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Oct 28, 2020 17:48
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Taima posted:I just don't get the stack. 6900 is positioned against the 3090 and is positioned well (and NVIDIA is preparing a counterstrike as a result). 6800XT and 6800 are both suffering from various degrees of cost squeeze and AMD's desire to premium price. The 6800XT is (on paper) competitive against the 3080 if you ignore the lack of DLSS and the consequences for raytracing and AAA performance, so AMD is pricing it as such. It's the same thing they did with the 5700XT, it is slotting in slightly under NVIDIA, not drastically undercutting them, because they want to be perceived as a "premium product" (albeit without having to do the work on the software stack that NVIDIA does, of course). 6800 is where AMD is getting into trouble, because they are using a GA102-sized part to compete against a GA104 part. Like I said a long time ago, that is going to squeeze their costs hard, at a time when their node costs are rumored to be as much as twice as expensive per chip as NVIDIA's. And the "cache chip" setup isn't cheap either. It's an expensive product to produce, NVIDIA has successfully maneuvered AMD into a cost squeeze situation in a high-volume segment. AMD may not be particularly eager to spend tons of wafers producing these super-low-margin chips when they could be selling six zen3 chiplets instead. What's the margin on six 3600Xs versus one 6800? Not good for the 6800 that's for sure. Despite all the "all AMD has to do is put product on the shelf!" that may not actually happen at all. And NVIDIA launching a GA103 chip that slots in between (can be used for 3080 or 3070) would twist that knife even harder on AMD as far as cost.
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Oct 28, 2020 17:48
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Josh Lyman posted:Is there any point to DLSS when most of us are targeting 1440p/144Hz anyway? Yes, because DLSS can also do things like upscale from 1080p to 1440p for mega frames.
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Oct 28, 2020 17:48
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bus hustler posted:65% of people on Steam H/W survey play @ 1080p - if you subtract at least the 10% that are laptop users (1366x768 are almost all laptops), its 72% of assumed desktop users. 1440p gets you 80% of the desktop market. 2160p is <2.5% While you're correct, nothing that was launched today is relevant to those 72% of people, either: $580 is still way too expensive. It'll be more interesting to see what their $300 offerings are, and whether NVidia's 3060 can actually do RTX at reasonable FPS or not (AMD simply won't be able to even try).
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Oct 28, 2020 17:49
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Azuren posted:I agree that the non-XT 6800 looks kinda pointless - 3070 is probably a better buy there. I don't know, double the VRAM will probably matter in the not-too-distant future. Still, nothing can be guessed at until real benchmarks are here...
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Oct 28, 2020 17:50
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sean10mm posted:Wait they had no RT benchmarks at all? leaked Port Royal benchmarks has the 6800XT on par with 3070/2080 Ti so they are probably not overly eager to emphasize that between the 3070-tier RT performance on a 3080 tier card, and the lack of the DLSS that softens the performance blow of the RT, these are not good RT cards. AMD is focusing on raster, where they're competitive. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Oct 28, 2020 |
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Oct 28, 2020 17:50
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bus hustler posted:65% of people on Steam H/W survey play @ 1080p - if you subtract at least the 10% that are laptop users (1366x768 are almost all laptops), its 72% of assumed desktop users. 1440p gets you 80% of the desktop market. 2160p is <2.5% Their entire presentation revolved around trying to sell high end gamers that their cards are worth consideration. I have no problem selling value orientated products. But don't try to snake oil me with irrelevant benchmarks that high end gamers are looking for. Josh Lyman posted:Is there any point to DLSS when most of us are targeting 1440p/144Hz anyway? Are you ok being stuck at 60fps for a 50 dollar discount? Ok that is your call.
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Oct 28, 2020 17:50
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MikeC posted:
Definitely agree with this, going to keep repeating: short term savings now that really push your upgrade window forward are not savings. there is a bit of the "poor mans boots" thing with GPUs.
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Oct 28, 2020 17:51
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Paul MaudDib posted:leaked Port Royal benchmarks has the 6800XT losing to the 3070/2080 Ti so they are probably not overly eager to emphasize that LOL get hosed AMD I was hoping this would be good so I wouldn't be locked in f5 hell but lolnope
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Oct 28, 2020 17:52
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Josh Lyman posted:Is there any point to DLSS when most of us are targeting 1440p/144Hz anyway? Yeah, because DLSS lets you turn RTX on and still be able to do 1440p@144Hz instead of 1440p@60Hz. whatis posted:both next-gen consoles use AMD GPUs, correct? doesnt that make it more likely their upsampling tech will see wider adoption than DLSS? that of course doesn't mean AMD's upsampling will be nearly as good, but from an adoption standpoint, AMD seems to be in an advantageous position...right? or is there something i'm missing? Ish. This is likely why NVidia has done a lot of work to make DLSS as easy to implement as possible, and is trying to get it integrated into big engines like UE4 and UE5. That it integrates well with the stuff you need to do to implement RT in most engines in the first place, and that the speed up it gives lets you actually use those RT options, makes it something that AAA titles are likely going to be very interested in. AMD owned the last console generation, too, and yet they didn't really get much of their tech to see a wider adoption, by comparison.
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Oct 28, 2020 17:53
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bus hustler posted:65% of people on Steam H/W survey play @ 1080p - if you subtract at least the 10% that are laptop users (1366x768 are almost all laptops), its 72% of assumed desktop users. 1440p gets you 80% of the desktop market. 2160p is <2.5% Most people posting about video cards as they're announced or released are nowhere near the middle of the gaming market. Most Americans can't afford an emergency $500 expense let alone a $500 video card.
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Oct 28, 2020 17:54
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DrDork posted:Yeah, because DLSS lets you turn RTX on and still be able to do 1440p@144Hz instead of 1440p@60Hz. Looks like 5900X + 3080 is still the way to go for a high price/performance build.
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Oct 28, 2020 17:55
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Azuren posted:I agree that the non-XT 6800 looks kinda pointless - 3070 is probably a better buy there. They probably won't produce very many of these. Just a holdover until their medium-sized die is ready.
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Oct 28, 2020 17:56
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Gabriel S. posted:And they're already gone. Ugh. Try following that partalert twitter. Got the evga off there and then had a chance at an FE today as well. Feels like its picking up a bit, both amazon and scan stock seemed to last more than a couple of seconds.
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Oct 28, 2020 17:57
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sean10mm posted:LOL get hosed AMD Some people will still buy it--if anything, people who want to AMD fanboi now have legitimate options that they didn't before. lovely thing is, the 6800XT won't hit until Nov 18th, and the 6900XT not until Dec 8th, so that's another month of just dealing with whatever NVidia wants to do.
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Oct 28, 2020 17:57
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