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FlamingLiberal posted:Picard is such a dick to Riker for absolutely no reason in Encounter at Farpoint I kind of enjoyed Weird rear end in a top hat Picard from Farpoint. Especially Wesley’s super awkward bridge visit. Which goes from “Well, I guess you sit in my chair for a moment, I don’t see the harm” to “GET THE gently caress OUT, YOU LITTLE poo poo!” in like three seconds. It makes part of me wish we got more wild mood swing serial killer Picard.
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Oct 28, 2020 20:45
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FlamingLiberal posted:Picard is such a dick to Riker for absolutely no reason in Encounter at Farpoint I don't think he even looks Riker in the face until their meeting in the conference room after the Enterprise has been reattached. My favorite pissy Picard moment is in The Naked Now, when he tells the Chief Engineer du jour to "get that boy out of engineering". The contempt in his voice is just funny to me.
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Oct 28, 2020 20:49
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:I don't think he even looks Riker in the face until their meeting in the conference room after the Enterprise has been reattached. That was something Edward James Olmos did on Battlestar Galactica. The way you could tell whether Adama respected someone or not is if he made eye contact when speaking to them. If it was someone he had absolutely no time for or just loving hated, he would stare past them or at the wall or the floor or start reading something to keep his eyes focused elsewhere. It was a really neat acting choice, and somewhat tangentially relevant because EJO was actually the runner up for the role of Picard after P.Stew.
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Oct 28, 2020 20:55
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nine-gear crow posted:That was something Edward James Olmos did on Battlestar Galactica. The way you could tell whether Adama respected someone or not is if he made eye contact when speaking to them. If it was someone he had absolutely no time for or just loving hated, he would stare past them or at the wall or the floor or start reading something to keep his eyes focused elsewhere. Olmos was also Leonard Nimoy's choice for Kruge in Star Trek III, but he was overruled by Harve Bennett. I'll always wonder what that would have been like.
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Oct 28, 2020 20:56
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:I don't think he even looks Riker in the face until their meeting in the conference room after the Enterprise has been reattached. Shoulda brought pissy Picard back for PIC. Woulda made the show about 10000000% better.
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Oct 28, 2020 20:57
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Well they were right to have Kirk steal a time machine from Doc Brown
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Oct 28, 2020 21:19
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nine-gear crow posted:I kind of enjoyed Weird rear end in a top hat Picard from Farpoint. Especially Wesley’s super awkward bridge visit. Which goes from “Well, I guess you sit in my chair for a moment, I don’t see the harm” to “GET THE gently caress OUT, YOU LITTLE poo poo!” in like three seconds. He just goes off on Wesley real fast
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Oct 28, 2020 21:31
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It's kind of meant to be though? He goes an apologises to Beverly later about it, and one of the first things he says to Riker is that he's terrible with children.
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Oct 28, 2020 21:41
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nine-gear crow posted:When it comes to Trek especially it is more than okay to like things that other people don’t. Unless it's Profit and Lace.
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Oct 28, 2020 21:48
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Powered Descent posted:Unless it's Profit and Lace. I'd rather watch Threshold than Profit and Lace again.
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Oct 28, 2020 21:51
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Boxturret posted:It's kind of meant to be though? He goes an apologises to Beverly later about it, and one of the first things he says to Riker is that he's terrible with children. "You see, I had a terrible experience when I was but a child, myself." "What was it, Jean-Luc?" "I was... French." "Jean-Luc... I'm so sorry."
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Oct 28, 2020 21:56
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Powered Descent posted:Unless it's Profit and Lace. 8one6 posted:I'd rather watch Threshold than Profit and Lace again. Okay, those are exceptions. As is Code of Honor. You're kinda hosed up if you actually legitimately like Code of Honor 
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Oct 28, 2020 22:02
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nine-gear crow posted:That was something Edward James Olmos did on Battlestar Galactica. The way you could tell whether Adama respected someone or not is if he made eye contact when speaking to them. If it was someone he had absolutely no time for or just loving hated, he would stare past them or at the wall or the floor or start reading something to keep his eyes focused elsewhere. Timby posted:Olmos was also Leonard Nimoy's choice for Kruge in Star Trek III, but he was overruled by Harve Bennett. I'll always wonder what that would have been like. Huh, I did not know this. I can't say we missed out on not getting EJO in TNG or Trek 3, because the guys that won those roles did such a great job. Still, I'm glad we got EJO as Adama, because he was phenomenal, and I'm sure he would have done great in any Trek role he would have been placed in
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Oct 28, 2020 22:07
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nine-gear crow posted:Okay, those are exceptions. As is Code of Honor. You're kinda hosed up if you actually legitimately like Code of Honor There's not really anything wrong with it beyond the obvious casting issues. If it had been a bunch of Gorn looking aliens or something, it would just be a middling episode.
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Oct 28, 2020 22:21
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I mean yeah if you change things it would be different
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Oct 28, 2020 22:55
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:Agreed. Encounter At Farpoint is another example. It would have worked much better as a tightly written single episode than a sprawling two-parter full of scenes like Riker manually reattaching the stardrive section of the Enterprise. I thought they wrote that in so that they could get filmed sequences of the separation and attachment so they could regularly use it as stock footage, right? But then they never bothered actually using it because the saucer separation just totally killed the pacing.
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Oct 28, 2020 23:19
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Roadie posted:I thought they wrote that in so that they could get filmed sequences of the separation and attachment so they could regularly use it as stock footage, right? Yes, ILM did the VFX for Farpoint and footage they shot was re-used all the way up through Generations (one separation shot in the movie is an upscaled shot from Farpoint--edit: I think the shot of the Enterprise as Picard records his captain's log about Data's emotion chip is also an upscaled shot from the show). Image G didn't have the studio space--or the budget--to do a lot of complicated VFX work for the series, so the producers crammed as much footage of the Enterprise doing poo poo as they could into Farpoint. Timby fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Oct 28, 2020 |
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Oct 28, 2020 23:22
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Same reason Picard wanders through Engineering for about two seconds at the start - only way they were getting an engineering set was to write a scene with one into the pilot. Looking back it's kinda weird that sci-fi TV would have had to use that kind of trick and wouldn't have been granted a budget to generate a stock footage library as a preproduction task, since a stock footage library was a standard necessity for all sci-fi shows back then and everyone would have known when they did it in the pilot that that was the reason.
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Oct 28, 2020 23:49
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MikeJF posted:Looking back it's kinda weird that sci-fi TV would have had to use that kind of trick and wouldn't have been granted a budget to generate a stock footage library as a preproduction task, since a stock footage library was a standard necessity for all sci-fi shows back then and everyone would have known when they did it in the pilot that that was the reason. I think it's because back in 1986 - 87, The Next Generation was by no means a sure thing. The movies were mediocre box-office performers outside of The Voyage Home, Roddenberry was in charge of the thing, and it was an entirely new cast and ship, meaning they had to do a lot of work to gain fan acceptance. It is not outside the realm of possibility that had TNG faceplanted out of the gate, it would have been a one-and-done show, and Paramount at that point was generally reticent in throwing good money after bad investments (remember, the only reason Cheers survived was because Brandon Tartikoff thought it was the funniest thing he'd ever seen and he personally insisted upon its renewal despite no one watching it).
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Oct 28, 2020 23:53
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I think Paramount also basically threw in season 1 of TNG as a freebie when stations were renewing the rights to show TOS reruns. "You want Star Trek? We'll give you this new Star Trek show as well!"
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Oct 29, 2020 00:12
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:Agreed. Encounter At Farpoint is another example. It would have worked much better as a tightly written single episode than a sprawling two-parter full of scenes like Riker manually reattaching the stardrive section of the Enterprise. It's not a two-parter, it's a double-length episode. It got broken up into two parts in syndication but it should still be the original double-length edit on the Bluray. Boxturret posted:I felt like watching TNG all the way through for the first time so I just watched Encounter at Farpoint. It was pretty good IDK Yeah I don't like recommending people to skip TNG first season because some people actually like it. If they don't like it... just skip ahead, it's an episodic series, it's not like there's developments you have to be caught up on to understand an episode. Timby posted:Yes, ILM did the VFX for Farpoint and footage they shot was re-used all the way up through Generations (one separation shot in the movie is an upscaled shot from Farpoint--edit: I think the shot of the Enterprise as Picard records his captain's log about Data's emotion chip is also an upscaled shot from the show). Image G didn't have the studio space--or the budget--to do a lot of complicated VFX work for the series, so the producers crammed as much footage of the Enterprise doing poo poo as they could into Farpoint. Would those have been actual upscales, or would they have just pulled and re-composited the original film negatives? But yeah, you're right, that other flyby was also a reuse of Farpoint footage. MikeJF posted:Same reason Picard wanders through Engineering for about two seconds at the start - only way they were getting an engineering set was to write a scene with one into the pilot. The original concept for TNG was that they were going to do a big bunch of new footage in between seasons and expand their stock library that way. This concept got blown out immediately when they realized that they'd have to do mid-season new footage even if only for alien ships, but the thought was there. The Arsenal of Freedom is a good example of an (almost?) entirely stock-shot episode. That said, TNG also got lucky and caught ILM between major projects, so ILM was willing to give them a surprisingly deep discount so as to have something to keep the crew working while they waited for another movie to come along. It made a lot of sense to get as much top-quality footage on the cheap as could be justified. Farmer Crack-Ass fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Oct 29, 2020 |
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Oct 29, 2020 00:13
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Payndz posted:I think Paramount also basically threw in season 1 of TNG as a freebie when stations were renewing the rights to show TOS reruns. "You want Star Trek? We'll give you this new Star Trek show as well!" That's news to me, although I seem to recall that overseas distribution and pre-sales of home video (or am I mixing that up and it was pre-sales of overseas home video?) pretty much paid for the first season up front, so I suppose it would have been financially possible.
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Oct 29, 2020 00:15
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I feel like at the beginning they wanted Picard to be the tougher no-nonsense one and Riker to be the softer, emotional one, but I feel like there were more soft, introspective Picard episodes and tough guy Riker episodes than the reverse. The whole captain first mate dynamic seems like a weird one to work with for writers. They're just so redundant to have both at the same time. Who's commanding officer when both Riker and Picard are asleep? HD DAD posted:TNG consistently had the best time-gently caress episodes. I really can’t think of a bad one. The episode where where Riker traveled back to the foundation of the Federation but also managed to arrange it so that he could play bit parts on some ship on the way to the foundation and have an emotional influence on the crew. I think that was a bad one.
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Oct 29, 2020 00:18
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SlothfulCobra posted:Who's commanding officer when both Riker and Picard are asleep? Data
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Oct 29, 2020 00:21
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SlothfulCobra posted:The whole captain first mate dynamic seems like a weird one to work with for writers. They're just so redundant to have both at the same time. Who's commanding officer when both Riker and Picard are asleep?
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Oct 29, 2020 00:25
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Would those have been actual upscales, or would they have just pulled and re-composited the original film negatives? But yeah, you're right, that other flyby was also a reuse of Farpoint footage. Oh they'd have been recomposited, the FX of the TV series couldn't have been upscaled to remotely near what was needed for film.
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Oct 29, 2020 00:36
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Speaking of chains of command, I just got the TOS book Doctor’s Orders in the mail about what happens when Bones is in command of the Enterprise. Excited to read.
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Oct 29, 2020 00:38
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CharlestheHammer posted:I mean yeah if you change things it would be different I mean that it isn't broken out of the box like some actual bad episodes. It isn't Shades of Gray, that doesn't work from any angle, or Sub Rosa, which I'm pretty sure was a script delivered to the wrong show.
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Oct 29, 2020 01:49
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nine-gear crow posted:That was something Edward James Olmos did on Battlestar Galactica. The way you could tell whether Adama respected someone or not is if he made eye contact when speaking to them. If it was someone he had absolutely no time for or just loving hated, he would stare past them or at the wall or the floor or start reading something to keep his eyes focused elsewhere. lol he did that in Miami Vice too, and apparently it was because he detested Don Johnson. Any scene where they're shot in the same frame, he'll be looking at his desk, the floor, another character, anything to avoid looking at Crockett.
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Oct 29, 2020 02:24
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Unmature posted:Data It's nice having a second officer who is an unsleeping robot.
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Oct 29, 2020 02:30
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Laterite posted:lol he did that in Miami Vice too, and apparently it was because he detested Don Johnson. Any scene where they're shot in the same frame, he'll be looking at his desk, the floor, another character, anything to avoid looking at Crockett. God, every story I hear about Eddie Olmos makes me appreciate him even more and just how loving dedicated he is to both acting and expressing his real life frustration through acting. Like that time he thought Katee Sackhoff was being written out of BSG for real so when it came time to film Adama's reaction to Starbuck's "death", he just up and destroyed a $100,000 model ship on his desk in a fit of genuine rage.
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Oct 29, 2020 02:41
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I have never heard that, just that he had no idea it was a real museum model and whoops. He is a rad dude though. He came to speak at my university once and stayed after for hours to talk to every single person who wanted to. We chatted BSG and he gave me career advice, and when he found out I didn't have a camera he ordered someone else to come take a pic of us and send it to me.
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Oct 29, 2020 02:49
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lower decks canonically established that delta shift is staffed by weirdos
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Oct 29, 2020 02:56
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Grand Fromage posted:I have never heard that, just that he had no idea it was a real museum model and whoops. Oh yeah, they kept Starbuck's fate a secret from like everyone but Jamie Bamber and I seem to recall like the whole cast either separately or together basically storming Ron Moore's office to go "what the gently caress man?" Because they all thought she was fired and Sackhoff was under an NDA not to tell anyone that she'd be back for the final season. Crusader posted:lower decks canonically established that delta shift is staffed by weirdos Actually Voyager did that. They let Harry Kim sit in the captain's chair from for like the 2 AM to 6 AM shift alongside McKenzie Westmore.
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Oct 29, 2020 03:02
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She'll always be Sheridan Crane to me
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Oct 29, 2020 03:20
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Crusader posted:lower decks canonically established that delta shift is staffed by weirdos That's a real mean thing to say about Beverly Crusher 
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Oct 29, 2020 03:28
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John Wick of Dogs posted:She'll always be Sheridan Crane to me I was gonna go with that one, but I wasn’t sure anyone would get it 
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Oct 29, 2020 03:35
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nine-gear crow posted:It makes part of me wish we got more wild mood swing serial killer Picard. I always wonder what the hell they were thinking with the first shot of Picard in Encounter at Farpoint - first episode of the first new series, first look at the new character - and they have him lit from behind, half in shadow, like he's a goddamn supervillain or something.
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Oct 29, 2020 04:01
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Angry Salami posted:I always wonder what the hell they were thinking with the first shot of Picard in Encounter at Farpoint - first episode of the first new series, first look at the new character - and they have him lit from behind, half in shadow, like he's a goddamn supervillain or something. There’s a lot going on with the lighting in Encounter at Farpoint that’s very cinematic and cool before they settle on the Hotel Marriott lobby look for most of the rest of the show. The courtroom scene looks like a Terry Gilliam movie.
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Oct 29, 2020 04:21
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You know, after watching Nemesis and Picard I think Olmos would have made more sense as Picard and Stewart would have been a better Adama.
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Oct 29, 2020 04:50
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