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GalacticAcid
Apr 8, 2013

NEW YORK VALUES

MrMojok posted:

Alright, so this is lame, but baseball is over for the foreseeable future, and I can't think of any reason not to post this. We're just bullshitting here, right?

I Found this kid on YouTube called THE GOAT MAN. One of his videos is about how Koufax is one of the most overrated pitchers of all time.

For sure, Koufax's story is basically a tale of two careers. He pitched six seasons before he figured things out. He also pitched off the 20" mound at Dodger Stadium, and in a pitcher-friendly era. But this kid talks about how his career strikeout totals are bolstered by the first half, "bonus seasons" when he wasn't really making an impact, but instead "kind of just racking up stats."

My monocle popped off my eye and I had to go lie down for a spell. This is absolute heresy to me. But I post it here to see how many heathens agree with this boy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63vlZTP51qs

Six years is a long time for a pitcher to be dominant.

That kid has a shrewd eye for getting attention but his argument is dumb. Plus if counting stat milestones were easy to rack up in garbage time more people would attain them.

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Der Meister
May 12, 2001

You can't just make someone an all-time great based on their six best years, where they won two World Series, and won three Cy Youngs and won a league MVP.

lol ok

Lumpy
Apr 26, 2002

La! La! La! Laaaa!



College Slice
If you have one not amazing season, you do not belong in the hall of fame. It's not called the "hall of fame for the six seasons where they won two World Series, and won three Cy Youngs and won a league MVP" for a reason.

Bregor
May 31, 2013

People are idiots, Leslie.

bawfuls posted:

"during the games"

king

alpha_destroy
Mar 23, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night
Kid is dumb as poo poo and this is what happens when you look at a spreadsheet devoid of all context. I know exactly how you get to that argument cause when you glance at his bref page without knowing your history it is a little shocking. He is 89th all time in JAWS! That is way below average for a Hall of Famer *gasp*! It is the same as the Ichiro was overrated argument that gets revived every once in awhile.

But dude retired at 30 after a 190 ERA+ season and in the last four years of his career posted 25 bWAR which is 6.5 a season. Pretty stinkin' go--what's that? *checks earpiece* oh sorry, that was 25 WAA over those four years, god drat! I mean, that four year peak is amazing. I mean, Pedro has a better peak, and Johnson does too, but that 4 year stretch is definitely rarified air.

bewbies
Sep 23, 2003

Fun Shoe
speaking of historical dodgers

I got into Jackie Robinson stuff last night and decided to fire up an old excel model I made years ago for predicting how hockey players would age, adapted it for baseball, and then reversed it, in order to create a career projection for what JR might've done had he come into the majors as a young lad.



It has some flaws: it isn't really tuned for player type, so in JR's case it is probably a bit harsh on both his SB and EBH numbers and maybe a touch favorable on his HRs and BA. It also follows a more traditional career trajectory, which JR certainly didn't have: he wasn't at his best until age 30 for obvious reasons, so there's some wobble there (in other words, why his OPS was higher as a fantasy 27 year old than as an actual 28 year old). I also didn't really check my cells very carefully so I probably made a mistake in there somewhere but the numbers seem plausible.

Anyway I can't actually do WAR but my best guess is he would've ended up just a hair behind Hornsby as best ever 2B for career WAR.

Thom P. Tiers
May 29, 2008

Red Birds
Red Ass
Red Text

WEH posted:

gently caress ryan braun i'm glad he got cut even if it's probably for covid payroll considerations. call up broxton i don't care at least he's fun

He didn't get "cut." It was a mutual $15m option and the Brewers decided to pay him $4m so he could become a free agent and they could "save" $11m.

As stated earlier, everyone with an option is getting declined and bought out and there are going to be a hell of a lot of non tenders on arb deals this year. It's going to be an absolute poo poo show.

Popete
Oct 6, 2009

This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
That he should grow greens instead of crushing on MCs

Grimey Drawer
I can't believe Ryan Braun is no longer a Brewer, good riddance. 14 years with a team only to get paid to gently caress off, a fitting end.

Intruder
Mar 5, 2003

MrMojok posted:

I Found this kid on YouTube called THE GOAT MAN. One of his videos is about how Koufax is one of the most overrated pitchers of all time.

What's this bullshit there's only one true goat man

GalacticAcid
Apr 8, 2013

NEW YORK VALUES
https://twitter.com/yankees/status/1322187437322489857?s=21

Bregor
May 31, 2013

People are idiots, Leslie.
I hope the Dodgers scoop up all these declined options and win again in ‘21 with a $200 million payroll. gently caress the owners and this dumb league

Inspector_666
Oct 7, 2003

benny with the good hair
Both of the options the Yankees declined are completely unsurprising, this is the second or third time they've done this with Gardner and it's best for everybody that Happ get a change of scenery.

Thom P. Tiers
May 29, 2008

Red Birds
Red Ass
Red Text
lmao Happ had a 17m vesting option guaranteed with 165 innings or 27 starts. Literally impossible in the year 2020.

Troxartas
Jan 13, 2007

The Old Warhorse

Thom P. Tiers posted:

lmao Happ had a 17m vesting option guaranteed with 165 innings or 27 starts. Literally impossible in the year 2020.

I'm pretty sure a lot of those were converted down for the shortened season, but Happ didn't reach it

Edit: Yeah they did https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/07/mlb-mlbpa-reach-deal-on-vesting-options-roster-bonuses-other-issues.html

R.D. Mangles
Jan 10, 2004


PLEASE DO NOT WRITE ANYTHING ABOUT TEAMS DECLINING OPTIONS ON PLAYERS NAMED "HAPP" UNLESS THE SPECIFY IT IS JA HAPP, RHP, NEW YORK YANKEES THANK YOU

GalacticAcid
Apr 8, 2013

NEW YORK VALUES
https://twitter.com/juanctoribio/status/1322198297981853697?s=21

Pirates should bring Charlie home

bawfuls
Oct 28, 2009

Bregor posted:

I hope the Dodgers scoop up all these declined options and win again in ‘21 with a $200 million payroll. gently caress the owners and this dumb league
So do I, but if the insurance industry billionaire who owns the Dodgers was ever going to cut back, this winter feels like the time. Cynically, they could coast on this win and the talent already under control for awhile if they wanted to.

Inspector_666
Oct 7, 2003

benny with the good hair

Didn't Morton say it was Tampa or retirement at this point? I doubt anybody is going to blow him away with an offer that would change his mind this winter.

Thom P. Tiers
May 29, 2008

Red Birds
Red Ass
Red Text

Troxartas posted:

I'm pretty sure a lot of those were converted down for the shortened season, but Happ didn't reach it

Edit: Yeah they did https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/07/mlb-mlbpa-reach-deal-on-vesting-options-roster-bonuses-other-issues.html

Awww haha. Well at least they agreed to that :v:

Intruder
Mar 5, 2003

Charlie come back to Houston!

He turns 37 in two weeks so it wouldn't surprise me if he retires. Certainly no one will be giving him more than a one or two year deal

elentar
Aug 26, 2002

Every single year the Ivy League takes a break from fucking up the world through its various alumni to fuck up everyone's bracket instead.
Could see the Braves tossing a year at Morton.

GalacticAcid
Apr 8, 2013

NEW YORK VALUES
That would be a good fit. I expect them to trade for Musgrove too

Kevlar v2.0
Dec 25, 2003

=^•⩊•^=

Strelok604 posted:

The absolute universality of everyone agreeing that the Tony La Russa move is dumb as poo poo is hilarious

Hiring Tony La Russa is the dumbest managerial move the White Sox have made since they fired Tony La Russa.

Bregor
May 31, 2013

People are idiots, Leslie.
Didn't see this in the thread, Miami picking up StarMart's option, good for them :unsmith:

https://www.mlb.com/marlins/news/starling-marte-marlins-option-exercised

General Dog
Apr 26, 2008

Everybody's working for the weekend
I still don't really see why Houston and Boston bothered firing Hinch and Cora when it was pretty certain they'd be back somewhere else in a year and no one would care by that point.

I mean, I do get it, but I don't see why anybody's bothering putting on airs of integrity here in our nation's Post-Shame Era.

General Dog fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Oct 30, 2020

R.D. Mangles
Jan 10, 2004


disappointed neither of them started a disgruntled twitter account called @fired4cans

Thom P. Tiers
May 29, 2008

Red Birds
Red Ass
Red Text

General Dog posted:

I still don't really see why Houston and Boston bothered firing Hinch and Cora when it was pretty certain they'd be back somewhere else in a year and no one would care by that point.

They were literally suspended?

I mean I guess they could have paid them money through the suspensions? I dunno.

Intruder
Mar 5, 2003

General Dog posted:

I still don't really see why Houston and Boston bothered firing Hinch and Cora when it was pretty certain they'd be back somewhere else in a year and no one would care by that point.

I mean, I do get it, but I don't see why anybody's bothering putting on airs of integrity here in our nation's Post-Shame Era.

For one thing, are they supposed to tell any potential manager hires they're out the door after a year?

Luigi Thirty
Apr 30, 2006

Emergency confection port.

A .150 hitting catcher is not worth $4.5 million so Zunino I can understand at least. Morton though :(

bawfuls
Oct 28, 2009

General Dog posted:

I still don't really see why Houston and Boston bothered firing Hinch and Cora when it was pretty certain they'd be back somewhere else in a year and no one would care by that point.

I mean, I do get it, but I don't see why anybody's bothering putting on airs of integrity here in our nation's Post-Shame Era.
For everyone involved there is PR value in leaving. Hinch and all the key Astros hitters will disperse among other teams and before you know it there's no single team left for fans to direct their anger at.

They all get to say some variation of "that's in the past I'm turning over a new leaf here in <CITY> looking forward to building a winner with this great group"

FlamingLiberal
Jan 18, 2009

Would you like to play a game?



I could see nobody offering Morton a contract this off-season because collusion is incoming and he’s like 37

howe_sam
Mar 7, 2013

Creepy little garbage eaters

General Dog posted:

I still don't really see why Houston and Boston bothered firing Hinch and Cora when it was pretty certain they'd be back somewhere else in a year and no one would care by that point.

Cora resigned iirc which is why he's considered the favorite for the Boston job now.

GalacticAcid
Apr 8, 2013

NEW YORK VALUES
https://twitter.com/jonheyman/status/1322233040777682945?s=21

Thom P. Tiers
May 29, 2008

Red Birds
Red Ass
Red Text
Jedd Gyorko declined for a whole $3.5m in savings. 121 OPS+ last season in 135 PA's.

elentar
Aug 26, 2002

Every single year the Ivy League takes a break from fucking up the world through its various alumni to fuck up everyone's bracket instead.
David Roth, as ever worth the read:
https://twitter.com/david_j_roth/status/1322227561670365185?s=20

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another spring commute

Thom P. Tiers posted:

Jedd Gyorko declined for a whole $3.5m in savings. 121 OPS+ last season in 135 PA's.

Look, there were losses last year. Losses! We can't just... pay players! If anything, they should just be happy we're going to have a season next year at all! They should just be grateful for that, and play for free!

mcmagic
Jul 1, 2004

If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Troxartas posted:

I'm pretty sure a lot of those were converted down for the shortened season, but Happ didn't reach it

Edit: Yeah they did https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/07/mlb-mlbpa-reach-deal-on-vesting-options-roster-bonuses-other-issues.html

He didn't reach it because they manipulated his starts so he didn't. Shady AF.

Nodoze
Aug 17, 2006

If it's only for a night I can live without you
Happ is gone, praise be!

Spoeank
Jul 16, 2003

That's a nice set of 11 dynasty points there, it would be a shame if 3 rings were to happen with it

I was just thinking "how many 'player looking off forlornly as the header image while we lament contracts and contract offers' articles do we get this offseason?" And we are already at 1

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Vertical Lime
Dec 11, 2004

https://twitter.com/timbhealey/status/1322240853264531458?s=21

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