|
Gonna preface this with Alan Moore's opinion about superhero poo poo, which is for children, is entirely on point and the loving awful Watchmen HBO series and it's ilk pretty much proves his point. But anyways, after he wrote fairly definitively about that he spent 10 years writing something called From Hell which is absolutely his magnum opus and an enduring examination of the 20th century and the sort of politics and culture it will engender. Its meticulously researched, beautifully inked, poignantly scripted, it's effusive and ultimately self-aggrandizing; but always self-aware. It knows that the media ghouls that will ultimately devour it will poo poo it out as chum for the brain poisoned liberal shark tank used to diffuse any revolutionary notions or spirit it might have once had. Moore himself said that in writing it, he came upon such a profound spiritual realization that he had to reorganize his entire life around it. So they took that and turned out some Johnny Depp schlock. Anyways. I've read this thing several times and every instance come away with the same deep conviction that it was written for this moment. So I was hoping other people wanted to talk about it and might put up a frequently updated framework about it. It's not so hard to read. It's 14 chapters long, with a prologue and epilogue . There are 2 appendices. The first has meticulous end notes about every chapter. The second is a complete deconstruction of the entire book's premise and a pretty sobering realization. The end of the second appendix is, especially in more modern light, the most haunting and enduring image of the entire thing. I was hoping someone would be interested in this. It's more certainly relevant today, and not just because we are in that time of year of the murders, but that the underlying premise of the book: that history has an architecture, that there are very real gods manufactured through human consent, that political actions and events reverberate backwards and forwards in time in the way they might shape material conditions and the way history is created out of the fiction they engender. Make no mistake, history is a fiction and Moore's ultimate take that if that is the case, then magic has a place in it's creation is apt as all hell. I haven't put much thought into where to go from here so just thought I'd put down thoughts and understandings of the chapters I've had as a weekly progression. Prologue The prologue most definitely sets the strong thesis of the work. It was written over a decade and the relevancy of this thesis stands the test of that even to today:   Here we see the main investigator, Abberline, talking with one of the only other ones who knew the conspiracy, Lees. Lees is a psychic who led Abberline to the murderer. Here, before the story or theory of the murders even begin, he admits he made everything up. He made it up but it came true anyways. If that's not some 2020 poo poo then go gently caress yourself. But that's what this book is about. It's about the very nature of time and history and how malleable those things really are. Maybe you saw the movie, but feel free to completely disregard it as it shed ever revolutionary or philosophical notion that is central to the book. You know the entire conspiracy and killer by the end of the 2nd chapter. The remaining 12 chapters are something loving else. Chapter 1 Pretty much the entire conspiracy. Chapter 2 What is the fourth dimension? (this chapter is a refrain you will see again. it's important) Chapter 3 Oh yea, poor people exist and most murder fiction is a predation upon them Chapter 4 an architecture of history Chapter 5  Chapter 6 Abberline Chapter 7 Jack the Ripper Chapter 8 There's a loving skyscraper in this one Chapter 9 Some fake news bullshit and the ghost of the flea Chapter 10 you kind of just have to read this one. describing it won't help Chapter 11 yea some real epstein didn't kill himself vibes Chapter 12 Abberline finds the killer due to zero police work Chapter 13 You could literally take this chapter out. It's Abberline discovering the entire conspiracy but its loving impotent and pointless. That's the message. Chapter 14 Gull Ascending Epilogue There's going to be another war. Appendix 2 That last loving page... Danger has issued a correction as of 03:42 on Oct 30, 2020 |
#
?
Oct 30, 2020 02:57
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 17:38 |
|
|
First
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2020 02:59
|
|
|
yeah seconding this, From Hell is fantastic and extremely cspam. i know this is just scratching the surface of the work- it's basically what Lees says in the opening- but the combination of an increasingly insane occult conspiracy with the epilogue's conclusion that we don't know what loving happened except that four people died horrible deaths and millions more were just as desperate and impoverished as they lived is real poo poo for these times Clear off now wit' ye! Clear off back to Hell and leave us be!
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2020 03:24
|
|
|
From Hell is a loving magnificent and full of terrible/terrifying grandeur anyone who likes frying their brains with stuff like Ghost Stories for the End of the World is going to love it imho edit: loving loved his take on William Blake, being completely fearless and portraying him as the terror he was
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2020 03:24
|
|
|
this is one of the greatest manga ever written.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2020 17:17
|
|
|
Echoing everyone that From Hell is a top three comic ever. I ordered a used copy of this and the complete Bone back in college and, as someone who didn't really read comics before, did not expect just how physically giant these books were. Eventually I sold it off since it was too big to take with me while apartment-hopping. I should really pick up a digital copy and start a re-read in the current political climate. DMCrimson has issued a correction as of 17:31 on Oct 30, 2020 |
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2020 17:28
|
|
|
Danger posted:Gonna preface this with Alan Moore's opinion about superhero poo poo, which is for children, is entirely on point and the loving awful Watchmen HBO series and it's ilk pretty much proves his point. The way he articulated himself on this view is hauntingly timeless  Yeah and skip the Johnny Depp movie its real bad
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2020 17:31
|
|
|
Malkina_ posted:The way he articulated himself on this view is hauntingly timeless pity that the man is so withdrawn from public life (for completely valid reasons and I think he is totally correct in his reasons for so), because I would absolutely love him doing more cultural commentary/essaying given how eccentrically sharp he is the man is a legit anarcho-communist esoteric Marxist and the left could use a few more active mages lmao
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2020 17:40
|
|
|
i tried to buy it at the book store last week but it was loving 80 dollars. gently caress you!
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2020 17:45
|
|
|
if the prologue is supposed to make me think about Waiting for Godot, it did an extremely good job of it and make light of its subject by saying we just waited for the hell of it yeah I want to read this
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2020 18:55
|
|
|
the footnotes at the back of the book also make for exceptional reading. the sequence where gull explains the architectural symbolism of london basically anticipates all the hosed up epstein poo poo like the island temple, the crooked spirals on the devil mask, the weird crop circle pattern at Zorro ranch, etc.
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2020 19:25
|
|
|
gh0stpinballa posted:the footnotes at the back of the book also make for exceptional reading. my favorite aside is Moore mentions the artist didn't want to make queen Victoria the bad guy lmao
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2020 19:51
|
|
|
Yes! Enthusiastically and unironically yes, we can talk about this!
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2020 20:00
|
|
|
gh0stpinballa posted:the footnotes at the back of the book also make for exceptional reading. this is definitely an iconic chapter and I absolutely love how it destroys the pacing of the book, upending it. like chapter 1 sets up the plot, chapter 2 is a little odd but continues the story, chapter 3 more so, then what the absolute gently caress is chapter 4? I also think it tends to overshadow the following ones a bit, chapter 5 especially has some of the most evocative imagery up to that point (that will later on even be eclipsed further). I kinda intend on writing up thoughts and posting excerpts weekly I think. I just did a book club with some friends so have a bunch of notes and other sources already out together. Danger has issued a correction as of 20:15 on Oct 30, 2020 |
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2020 20:04
|
|
|
StashAugustine posted:my favorite aside is Moore mentions the artist didn't want to make queen Victoria the bad guy lmao compare how Victoria is drawn compared to like any other deity or god or person. shes literally haloed in darkness
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2020 20:04
|
|
|
i own a copy of this and to be honest i kind of bounced off of it the one time i read it. it was obviously very meticulously researched and i can't argue with the basic moral premises, but the second half left me a bit cold. the bit where gull is chopping up the last girl and sees a vision of modern-day london was a little on-the-nose, i felt. however! the architecture chapter (chapter 4) really is incredible, and perfectly readable on its own. so if you're on the fence, check out that chapter
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2020 20:43
|
|
|
Regarding Jahbulon, the thing Gull has a vision of:quote:Non-Masonic authors have alleged that it is a Masonic name for God, and even the name of a unique "Masonic god", despite repeated statements by Freemasonry's officials that "There is no separate Masonic God", nor a separate proper name for a deity in any branch of Freemasonry.[1][2] It is this misinterpretation of a "Masonic god" that has led to debates about and condemnation of Freemasonry by several religious groups, notwithstanding the fact that it has been proven to be pure speculation by those who seem to know neither the Bible nor history. In England, no ritual containing the name has been in official Masonic use since February 1989. "That deity was made up by people who don't like us. Also, we haven't invoked him since a very specific timeframe." 
|
|
#
?
Oct 30, 2020 21:08
|
|
|
okay i bought this yesterday on your recommendation and on like page 6 there's a lady jackin a dude off and then full p in v penetration. i didn't expect this to be such an artsy book but i am looking forward to reading it
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2020 13:01
|
|
|
gonna read it, looks neat
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2020 13:17
|
|
|
Malkina_ posted:The way he articulated himself on this view is hauntingly timeless Hell yes
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2020 14:09
|
|
|
Malkina_ posted:The way he articulated himself on this view is hauntingly timeless but of course, Magneto and the dream of Israel and Zionism
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2020 16:19
|
|
|
Danger posted:this is definitely an iconic chapter and I absolutely love how it destroys the pacing of the book, upending it. like chapter 1 sets up the plot, chapter 2 is a little odd but continues the story, chapter 3 more so, then what the absolute gently caress is chapter 4? i look forward to reading this if you do it, i love reading takes about from hell
|
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2020 21:09
|
|
|
just finished chapter 4 & 5 and that owned
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2020 01:15
|
|
|
gh0stpinballa posted:the footnotes at the back of the book also make for exceptional reading. should i be reading the appendix/footnote stuff as i go or is that something to save and go back through after i finish the story? i bought the master edition im really glad this thread got made because this wasn't something that was ever on my radar
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2020 01:23
|
|
|
thank u for reminding me to read this op it was really funjarofpiss posted:should i be reading the appendix/footnote stuff as i go or is that something to save and go back through after i finish the story? i bought the master edition im really glad this thread got made because this wasn't something that was ever on my radar its mostly about the historical influences moore drew on which are really interesting but not critical to the plot or anything
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2020 01:25
|
|
|
jarofpiss posted:should i be reading the appendix/footnote stuff as i go or is that something to save and go back through after i finish the story? i bought the master edition im really glad this thread got made because this wasn't something that was ever on my radar reading the end notes as you go along is nice. when I first read I would just take a peek if something stood out to me or seemed odd and I wondered if it was based in fact. chapter 4 is a great one to read all the way through. dont read appendix 2 until you finish, it is intended as a coda. I plan on putting up a bunch of my notes on chapter 1 and 2 tomorrow probably, otherwise welcome others thoughts still.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2020 21:39
|
|
|
i read it all after but i had a virtual copy and it sucked to flip back and forth
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2020 21:42
|
|
|
gh0stpinballa posted:i look forward to reading this if you do it, i love reading takes about from hell I hated every goddamn minute of it. I hated the cramped, schizophrenic writing that made my eyes cross. I hated the stark, sketch-y drawing that were so vague you couldn't ever tell who was who. I hated the gore and the period-"appropriate" racism and classism. I hated all the charactersthe flippety-gibbet women and the cold cruel calculating men and everyone in between. I hated the inexplicable worlds-within-worlds twistiness of the myriad occult subplots. I hated the bleakness. I even hated the massive heft of the goddamn book itself, which was impossible to hold comfortably in any position, especially outside on my stoop, especially on the subway, especially anywhere except I guess sitting in a massive velvet armchair in some vast dark-wood-paneled drawing room where rich white men drink sherry and chortle over their monocles. Or something like that, I don't loving know. Alan Moore is a very insane man, and although I was blown away by Watchmen, this book made me never want to read anything else he's written ever again. I'm not totally sure I even finished it, although I do think I remember some very unsatisfying closing scene with two old dudes on a bluff talking about how no one ever found out what they'd done? Did that happen? I don't loving know, it's two years since I read it and I think I blocked most of it out. gently caress this book, is what I'm saying.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2020 23:08
|
|
|
Maya Fey posted:and the period-"appropriate" racism and classism. Would you prefer they depict Victorian England as a woke society?
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2020 23:25
|
|
|
I thought the movie was fun
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2020 23:27
|
|
|
I have to agree that I had a hard time telling people apart
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2020 23:28
|
|
|
Maya Fey posted:I hated every goddamn minute of it. in terms of historical accuracy, it was being nice to victorian london
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2020 23:43
|
|
|
I read the book + appendices over the weekend thanks to this thread. It was bleak and heavy and filthy, and reading it felt like picking up a huge lump of coal and getting the dust all over me. I didnt like it nor did I enjoy it, but I appreciated what Moore had to say. The panel of Polly so exhausted that shes sleeping on the clothesline confused me at first, and then horrified me when I got context from the appendix. Thats the image that I think is going to stick with me from the book, the systemic abuse that allows for something so devoid of simple human dignity - ESPECIALLY since its directly contrasted with her killer waking up in a comfortable bed in a beautiful house. I have more thoughts later maybe! Interested in what other people have to say.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2020 23:48
|
|
|
I need to re-read this as it's been years. Thank you for the inspiration OP
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 00:11
|
|
|
Finished Providence recently and is his closest to From Hell, it's just as meticulously researched, just as dense, every issue backmatter are handwritten pages from the MC's diary and can be just as big as the comic.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 00:54
|
|
|
Providence was great and this blog is basically an appendix for it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 01:07
|
|
|
Animal-Mother posted:Providence was great and this blog is basically an appendix for it. You know that picture on the painters chapter that is an actual photograph produced for the book? I swear I've seen a similar picture from the early 20th century only i can't place it
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 01:11
|
|
|
Maya Fey posted:I hated every goddamn minute of it. I straight up dont get the criticism of the art. I never found it challenging to tell people apart and think the style is a really important part of the story. most definitely scenes unravel into the next and are juxtaposed with the solid lines of the architecture depicted. also underlying the entire theory of historical narrative is a premise of materialism but I guess it wasnt woke enough? one thing recently with Moore Ive found funny, having to do with that interview on modern superhero stories quoted a few times already, is that Ive seen plenty of folks chide Moore for that take while claiming Watchmen is the best thing hes done in the same breath. Danger has issued a correction as of 01:22 on Nov 3, 2020 |
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 01:20
|
|
|
Danger posted:I straight up dont get the criticism of the art. I never found it challenging to tell people apart and think the style is a really important part of the story. most definitely scenes unravel into the next and are juxtaposed with the solid lines of the architecture depicted. imagine if instead of some type of music or final fantasy games or something actually useful instead of just harmless, you became irrationally emotionally attatched to superhero comics and you never matured out of the phase where this one dumb thing is a part of your identity that you felt you needed to defend at all costs and then rich people devoted billons of dollars to giving your warped sense of self worth lots of social proof and temporarily replicating all this in lots of people who at this point probably just don't want to think about superhero movies except to vaguely remember liking them
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 01:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 19, 2024 17:38 |
|
|
Hodgepodge posted:imagine if instead of some type of music or final fantasy games or something actually useful instead of just harmless, you became irrationally emotionally attatched to superhero comics and you never matured out of the phase where this one dumb thing is a part of your identity that you felt you needed to defend at all costs and then rich people devoted billons of dollars to giving your warped sense of self worth lots of social proof and temporarily replicating all this in lots of people who at this point probably just don't want to think about superhero movies except to vaguely remember liking them I mean I even get that but like the entire premise of watchmen shits all over comic books and super heroes, so this unique combination of takes: Moore sucks for criticizing this but the same thing he said 20 years ago rules; I find funny.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2020 01:54
|
|