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bewbies
Sep 23, 2003

Fun Shoe
I agree with the general tone of that piece but

"Russian forces are not just better armed, but also more fleet-footed. Thanks to improvements in readiness, Russia could probably get 100,000 troops, complete with heavy armour, to a European hotspot within 30 days. NATO might struggle to muster half the number, of lighter forces, in that time. Around 5,000 of Russia’s airborne troops are said to be on two hours’ notice. Soldiers are kept on their toes with huge exercises. The latest, Kavkaz (Caucacus) 2020, involved 80,000 personnel and concluded on September 26th. “Russia has traded mass for tempo,” concludes Lt-General Jim Hockenhull, Britain’s chief of defence intelligence."

I can *maybe* see this if "European hotspot" means "inside Russian borders" but otherwise, not a chance.

edit - upon discussion with our local Russia guy, it seems my knowledge about this is out of date. It probably doesn't include a LOT of the heavy stuff, but still enough of it to be a serious pain in the rear end.

bewbies fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Nov 3, 2020

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Phanatic
Mar 13, 2007

Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.
“Russia’s ultimate aim is to create a “reconnaissance-strike complex”—originally a Soviet idea—in which data from vehicles on the ground, drones in the air, satellites in space and radio signals emitted by enemy units are collected, processed and fed to the weapons in real time. “

The Soviets invented this, did they?

wiegieman
Apr 22, 2010

Royalty is a continuous cutting motion


Where does the idea that Soviet and later Pact armies were so rigid compared to nato armies come from?

Soviet mechanized units were led by majors, as I gather they had a lot of operational latitude.

babyeatingpsychopath
Oct 28, 2000
Forum Veteran


Nebakenezzer posted:

Alright, this is a warning shot

This was a good rabbit hole.
https://picryl.com/topics/gordon+phillips Gordon Phillips painted some COOL STUFF. Exceptionally cold war.

https://picryl.com/media/artwork-pluto-artist-gordon-phillips-us-air-force-art-collection-e9fd33?zoom=true

Schadenboner
Aug 15, 2011

by Shine

wiegieman posted:

Where does the idea that Soviet and later Pact armies were so rigid compared to nato armies come from?

Soviet mechanized units were led by majors, as I gather they had a lot of operational latitude.

From most to least likely in my opinion (which is, as noted many many times, of little value):
1. You impute to your enemy what you fear about yourself.
2. (P.racist) narratives about the semi-Asiatic Soviet hordes imposed by the remnants of the incomplete denazification of the West German military elite.
3. The fairly dismal performance of WP-trained/organized Arab armies in the middle east.

Cessna
Feb 20, 2013

KHABAHBLOOOM

wiegieman posted:

Where does the idea that Soviet and later Pact armies were so rigid compared to nato armies come from?

Soviet mechanized units were led by majors, as I gather they had a lot of operational latitude.

On a tactical level they were more reliant on set formations and discouraged low-level initiative.

This is not to say that NATO/the US never used formations and let PFCs run the show, but on the level of squads and platoons they were less flexible.



("Mechanized units" - are you referring to companies? Battalions?)



Schadenboner posted:

3. The fairly dismal performance of WP-trained/organized Arab armies in the middle east.

The Soviet performance in Afghanistan also wasn't exactly a showcase of small unit initiative.

Schadenboner
Aug 15, 2011

by Shine

Cessna posted:

On a tactical level they were more reliant on set formations and discouraged low-level initiative.

This is not to say that NATO/the US never used formations and let PFCs run the show, but on the level of squads and platoons they were less flexible.



("Mechanized units" - are you referring to companies? Battalions?)


The Soviet performance in Afghanistan also wasn't exactly a showcase of small unit initiative.

Strong recommend on the Lions Led By Donkeys series on that little fiasco, by-the-by.

TCD
Nov 13, 2002

Every step, a fucking adventure.

Schadenboner posted:

3. The fairly dismal performance of WP-trained/organized Arab armies in the middle east.

You could sub out WP for NATO and still have that be true.

glynnenstein
Feb 18, 2014


TCD posted:

You could sub out WP for NATO and still have that be true.

There are degrees there, though. The Soviets suffered about 150% more casualties than NATO while spending 2/3 as long in the country. It was quite bad for them.

Dandywalken
Feb 11, 2014

Phanatic posted:

“Russia’s ultimate aim is to create a “reconnaissance-strike complex”—originally a Soviet idea—in which data from vehicles on the ground, drones in the air, satellites in space and radio signals emitted by enemy units are collected, processed and fed to the weapons in real time. “

The Soviets invented this, did they?

Lol was about to say

evil_bunnY
Apr 2, 2003

.

evil_bunnY fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Nov 3, 2020

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

wiegieman posted:

Where does the idea that Soviet and later Pact armies were so rigid compared to nato armies come from?

Soviet mechanized units were led by majors, as I gather they had a lot of operational latitude.

https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm100-2-1.pdf

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Canadian Mil wants in the propaganda/marketing game

Guest2553
Aug 3, 2012



But if PAfOs do that, who will watch the jar with a bee in it?

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye


A-11:

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

nobody cares



An exact copy of my KSP light payload SSTO :jeb:

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

With the death of Sean Connary, have this thing Mr. Sutton wrote on the Typhoon class submarine.

Schadenboner
Aug 15, 2011

by Shine

Nebakenezzer posted:

With the death of Sean Connary

This loving year.

aphid_licker
Jan 7, 2009


Learning that Sean Connery apparently gave multiple interviews on how beating women was okay was extremely uncool

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004

Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration
Nap Ghost

aphid_licker posted:

Learning that Sean Connery apparently gave multiple interviews on how beating women was okay was extremely uncool

Yeah, like... on the list of poo poo things of 2020 learning thatn an old rich woman-beater died of very old age is just... well, ok, time moves on.

Schadenboner
Aug 15, 2011

by Shine
*Sadly puts Highlander/Zardoz cross-over spec script back on shelf.

Phanatic
Mar 13, 2007

Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.

I just want to point out this so nobody else misses it. That link quotes Brezhnev as saying "There is always good and evil in the world. I am the epitome of good." I found the transcript referenced and it's a great loving read.

https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1969-76v16/d73

Brezhnev has a little toy artillery piece that fires blanks and he loads it and keeps loving with it but can't get it to fire.

quote:

Brezhnev throughout his remarks and the translation had been manipulating the artillery piece. Kissinger: I have never been shot at by the General Secretary. Brezhnev trains the gun at Sonnenfeldt. Gromyko: You should train it at your own Foreign Minister and not frighten the Americans. Brezhnev inserts a shell into the gun and pulls the lanyard. Nothing happens. Brezhnev: I have to ask Sadat for spares. Kissinger: He probably has them in the wrong guns.

...

Kissinger: Let me understand. Suppose the FRG attacks the Soviet Union. We would then support the Soviet Union militarily under this idea?

Brezhnev: Yes. [Keeps pulling lanyard on the gun.] Equally, assume that the Czechs or someone would attack you or your allies or friends with nuclear weapons, we would come to your help. It would primarily apply to an attack with nuclear weapons since the time of conventional weapons has passed. In a preamble to such an arrangement, it would be said that it is not directed against anyone and it is in the interest that each State has against the use of nuclear weapons . . . [to Sonnenfeldt: you should stop taking notes. Kissinger: This is only for President Ford and I assure you it will not leave the White House. Brezhnev: That is impossible in the United States.] . . . it would be a sign of great success for us and our allies. It would not be necessary to make a reference to the parties who might attack. I am just talking about principles now.

Kissinger: The principle is this: If either of us or one of our allies is attacked with nuclear weapons the other one would come to his assistance.

[Brezhnev again pulls the lanyard and this time the gun goes off with a loud bang.]

Brezhnev: Now they will say you are under duress.

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

nobody cares


Phanatic posted:

I just want to point out this so nobody else misses it. That link quotes Brezhnev as saying "There is always good and evil in the world. I am the epitome of good." I found the transcript referenced and it's a great loving read.

https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1969-76v16/d73

Brezhnev has a little toy artillery piece that fires blanks and he loads it and keeps loving with it but can't get it to fire.

this reads like a piece of historical fiction

absolutely wild that this is real

Ice Fist
Jun 20, 2012

^^ Please send feedback to beefstache911@hotmail.com, this is not a joke that 'stache is the real deal. Serious assessments only. ^^

quote:

to Sonnenfeldt: you should stop taking notes. Kissinger: This is only for President Ford and I assure you it will not leave the White House. Brezhnev: That is impossible in the United States.

:iceburn:

aphid_licker
Jan 7, 2009


Yeah I love that

zoux
Apr 28, 2006

The NYPost/Daily Mail are reporting that Putin is planning to step down soon because he has Parkinsons, Russian state media of course denies it. Usually I'd discount Murdoch rags but they'd probably know about this. Have y'all heard anything?

Nicodemus Dumps
Jan 9, 2006

Just chillin' in the sink

zoux posted:

The NYPost/Daily Mail are reporting that Putin is planning to step down soon because he has Parkinsons, Russian state media of course denies it. Usually I'd discount Murdoch rags but they'd probably know about this. Have y'all heard anything?

That would shed an interesting light on this story:

quote:

Moscow (CNN)Russian lawmakers submitted a draft bill that could grant former presidents lifelong immunity from criminal prosecution beyond their terms of office, state-run news agency TASS reported Thursday.

Such a bill would give current President Vladimir Putin protection from prosecution if and when he decides to leave office.

Under current Russian law, presidents cannot be prosecuted for crimes committed while in office. The proposed change seeks to extend the immunity beyond their terms of office so it would apply to offenses committed in the president's lifetime.

Phanatic
Mar 13, 2007

Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.

zoux posted:

The NYPost/Daily Mail are reporting that Putin is planning to step down soon because he has Parkinsons, Russian state media of course denies it. Usually I'd discount Murdoch rags but they'd probably know about this. Have y'all heard anything?

Source of the article is apparently the Sun, which is if anything even less credible than the Daily Mail.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

That immunity extension bill also allows Putin to run again, so it could mean something or it could be nothing.

It's the Mail though so better to ignore that poo poo.

Captain von Trapp
Jan 23, 2006

I don't like it, and I'm sorry I ever had anything to do with it.
He's had some unexplained disappearances that could conceivably be health related, and he's not young. That said, it's mostly rumor.

TK-42-1
Oct 30, 2013

looks like we have a bad transmitter



So, in theory, he could strangle someone post office and be immune?

Maybe he’s mad about a losing investment in Donny and is planning something?

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

nobody cares


it's the New York Post, the same organization that ran a hunter by the story so full of obvious holes that the information security community and Bellingcat have been basically pointing and laughing at them for the last 3 weeks.

standard.deviant
May 17, 2012

Globally Indigent

Potato Salad posted:

it's the New York Post, the same organization that ran a hunter by the story so full of obvious holes that the information security community and Bellingcat have been basically pointing and laughing at them for the last 3 weeks.
That was hilarious on pretty much every level, though. Everything from the impossibly low prices on offer to the legally blind Trump supporter swearing that Hunter Biden gave him the laptops...
:thunk:

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

PittTheElder posted:

That immunity extension bill also allows Putin to run again, so it could mean something or it could be nothing.

It's the Mail though so better to ignore that poo poo.

It's a ploy to get some dissidents to self-identify because they feel safe enough. Then he miraculously cures himself, "wins" another election, and those people mysteriously and coincidentally die.

Crab Dad
Dec 28, 2002

behold i have tempered and refined thee, but not as silver; as CRAB


standard.deviant posted:

That was hilarious on pretty much every level, though. Everything from the impossibly low prices on offer to the legally blind Trump supporter swearing that Hunter Biden gave him the laptops...
:thunk:

I couldn’t pick Hunter out from a lineup of clothed men.

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004

Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration
Nap Ghost
A good crab-walk takeoff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1lpoZDjt00

piL
Sep 20, 2007
(__|\\\\)
Taco Defender

Traffic Controller: B-52 go home you're drunk.
B-52: I'm trying.

hypnophant
Oct 19, 2012

Do TF-33s make that much smoke in cruise, or is it just a takeoff/landing thing?

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

hypnophant posted:

Do TF-33s make that much smoke in cruise, or is it just a takeoff/landing thing?

God I thought you said TB-33 for a sec and I just really miss that plane.

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mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004

Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration
Nap Ghost

hypnophant posted:

Do TF-33s make that much smoke in cruise, or is it just a takeoff/landing thing?

It's a variety of things. The engines are at full throttle on takeoff, but that's not the biggest issue.

When a B-52 is at altitude and cruising, yes, it's throttled down, but also in the span of 30 seconds, even if it DID produce exactly as much particulate as during takeoff, that particulate would be spread across 4-5 miles instead of compressed into a takeoff roll. And the camera is staring straight down the "boresight," if you will, of the smoke generation.

So the raw amount of smoke is generally pretty similar, but it's far less perceptible when at higher altitude and cruising speed. Still, a flyby of a B-52 with some fighters next to it will show that the B-52 leaves a smoke trail and modern fighters do not.

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