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FreudianSlippers
Apr 12, 2010

Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!

If you read primary sources from when the British were colonizing Ireland in the 17th century you can see how racism was first and foremost invented as a justification for colonialism and slavery.

There's a lot of comparisons to "Wild Arabs" and "Savage Injuns" (especially when authors try to argue that the pastoral agriculture of the Irish means they aren't using the land properly anyway) and a oddly popular theory that the Irish are actually Phoenicians, Scythians, or some vague "oriental" ancient people who got lost and massacred all the native Britons on the island are thus not entitled to the country And that's not getting into all the times they're directly compared to animals or the accusations of pagan Moon Worship.

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Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


I know above all it's ok to be racist against Italians.

Phanatic
Mar 13, 2007

Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.
There are two things I can't stand. People who are intolerant of other peoples' cultures, and the Dutch.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised.

Maxwell Lord posted:

The Irish were the subject of British Imperialism. France was an empire all its own, and has never really been subject to another.

Only case I can think of is Rome.

And France never actually stopped.

Metis of the Chat Thread
Aug 1, 2014


Simone Magus posted:

David Cage is a dumb creepy frog but Detroit is very enjoyable especially if you go full Cop Killer in Marcus' story

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Three days??

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.


You can't call the French f**gs? I need to update my vocabulary of acceptable insults.

Failed Imagineer
Sep 22, 2018

Inspector Gesicht posted:

You can't call the French f**gs? I need to update my vocabulary of acceptable insults.

I mean I'm Irish and I don't especially care if people say "micks" or whatever, but it does make me assume you're a Trump supporter. I assume the same is true for French people and "frogs".

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.
I'm french canadian and never thought frog was a slur. We got different epithets though so maybe that's a France-specific thing.

Sir Kodiak
May 14, 2007


Makes me think of the freedom fries bullshit from the aughts.

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 12, 2015

by Cyrano4747
honestly even if it is technically a slur, the concept of getting angry about anti-French racism in 2020 is just deeply amusing to me

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004

MonsieurChoc posted:

I'm french canadian and never thought frog was a slur. We got different epithets though so maybe that's a France-specific thing.

As with all slurs, intent lies with the user.

At the end of the day, you’re either someone who makes excuses for slurs, or you can acknowledge the objective history of it. Just know you’re not bringing anything new to the table when you use and defend slurs. You’re just reinforcing the systemic status quo, which is the antithesis of progressivism.

ruddiger fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Nov 5, 2020

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

WeedlordGoku69 posted:

honestly even if it is technically a slur, the concept of getting angry about anti-French racism in 2020 is just deeply amusing to me

China is a country with some deeply troubling politics, do you mind calling Chinese people a bunch of dog eaters?

BaldDwarfOnPCP
Jun 26, 2019

by Pragmatica

Grendels Dad posted:

China is a country with some deeply troubling politics, do you mind calling Chinese people a bunch of dog eaters?

Seems like a false equivalency.

Some white americans could be offended by being called "crackers". Is it the same as "frog"? No, but in either case I don't understand why I should care.

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 12, 2015

by Cyrano4747

Grendels Dad posted:

China is a country with some deeply troubling politics, do you mind calling Chinese people a bunch of dog eaters?

...huh? :psyduck:

the idea of getting up in arms about anti-french racism is amusing to me because french people do not face any kind of meaningful systemic oppression. french people are whitey. being called a "frog" or a "cheese-eating surrender monkey" is about the worst thing a french person will ever face as a result of their ethnicity in the wide bulk of the world, and because this is not backed by any kind of systemic oppression, it's just kind of annoying.

meanwhile, anti-chinese racism, y'know, gets people killed and maimed when poo poo like COVID happens. bit more serious, that.

"oh no, people might be a jerk to me" from whitey looks, at best, extremely quaint when not-whitey's equivalent worry is "oh no, people might murder me in the street for not looking white enough."

WeedlordGoku69 fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Nov 5, 2020

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 12, 2015

by Cyrano4747
like i'm gonna be honest i legitimately thought y'all were doing a bit getting mad at that person and not being completely serious

Failed Imagineer
Sep 22, 2018

WeedlordGoku69 posted:

...huh? :psyduck:

the idea of getting up in arms about anti-french racism is amusing to me because french people do not face any kind of meaningful systemic oppression. french people are whitey. being called a "frog" or a "cheese-eating surrender monkey" is about the worst thing a french person will ever face as a result of their ethnicity in the wide bulk of the world.

meanwhile, anti-chinese racism, y'know, gets people killed and maimed when poo poo like COVID happens. bit more serious, that.

"oh no, people might be a jerk to me" from whitey looks, at best, extremely quaint when not-whitey's equivalent worry is "oh no, people might murder me in the street for not looking white enough."

85% of France is white, the other 15% are not. Is it important that you erase their existence to score some dumb point about "whitey"?

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 12, 2015

by Cyrano4747

Failed Imagineer posted:

85% of France is white, the other 15% are not. Is it important that you erase their existence to score some dumb point about "whitey"?

their existence is not relevant to this discussion because they are not going to give the absolute faintest poo poo if you call them a "frog." if anything, they'll be very confused over that being what you went with.

because while they do face systemic oppression, the fact that they are French is not the loving reason why they face it. the people the slur "frog" is directed at are, in fact, the ones oppressing them.

like I'm back to wondering if this is some kind of elaborate joke now because there's no way this many of you are this dumb.

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004

WeedlordGoku69 posted:

like i'm gonna be honest i legitimately thought y'all were doing a bit getting mad at that person and not being completely serious

I’m a person of color who has dealt with systemic racism all my life. I’ve been labeled “white” on official government forms even tho my skin is clearly not white. Systemic racism is systemic racism no matter how you want to flavor it, “white” is an ideology so using white identity as an excuse to use racial slurs against other “white people” is, again, just normalizing the systemic racial quo.

You dismissing people challenging your hegemonic worldview as dumb just goes to show how willingly ignorant you choose to be.

ruddiger fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Nov 5, 2020

Failed Imagineer
Sep 22, 2018

WeedlordGoku69 posted:

their existence is not relevant to this discussion because they are not going to give the absolute faintest poo poo if you call them a "frog." if anything, they'll be very confused over that being what you went with.

because while they do face systemic oppression, the fact that they are French is not the loving reason why they face it. the people the slur "frog" is directed at are, in fact, the ones oppressing them.

like I'm back to wondering if this is some kind of elaborate joke now because there's no way this many of you are this dumb.

Your incredulity aside, I don't actually know that the average French person's approval of the lame slur "frog" has anything to do with their race. But you seem to have generated a mental landscape where all French people are white and you can sense their thoughts, so cool

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 12, 2015

by Cyrano4747
this is the absolute dumbest rear end discourse i have ever seen, up there with the bodybuilding forum debating how many days there are in a week, and i'm pretty sure continuing to participate in it is going to give me CTE

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004

WeedlordGoku69 posted:

this is the absolute dumbest rear end discourse i have ever seen, up there with the bodybuilding forum debating how many days there are in a week, and i'm pretty sure continuing to participate in it is going to give me CTE

This is peak American_ideology.txt right here.

Thanks for actively working to preserve the status quo tho.

Failed Imagineer
Sep 22, 2018

WeedlordGoku69 posted:

this is the absolute dumbest rear end discourse i have ever seen, up there with the bodybuilding forum debating how many days there are in a week, and i'm pretty sure continuing to participate in it is going to give me CTE

The important thing is that you're definitely not mad, and that everyone but you is an idiot

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

WeedlordGoku69 posted:

...huh? :psyduck:

the idea of getting up in arms about anti-french racism is amusing to me because french people do not face any kind of meaningful systemic oppression. french people are whitey. being called a "frog" or a "cheese-eating surrender monkey" is about the worst thing a french person will ever face as a result of their ethnicity in the wide bulk of the world, and because this is not backed by any kind of systemic oppression, it's just kind of annoying.

meanwhile, anti-chinese racism, y'know, gets people killed and maimed when poo poo like COVID happens. bit more serious, that.

"oh no, people might be a jerk to me" from whitey looks, at best, extremely quaint when not-whitey's equivalent worry is "oh no, people might murder me in the street for not looking white enough."

The post I responded to claimed it was OK to use the slur because France was doing Bad Things.

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.

What a confusing hill to die on. The French have profoundly never faced systemic oppression on the basis of their perceived ethnicity. Until recent history, they were among the worst colonial oppressors. Calling them "frogs" is on par with calling a white American a "gringo" or a Briton a "limey." Like, at worst it's kind of rude and mostly just embarrassing for the person delivering the insult.

Given that Middle Eastern or francophone African people in France are constantly marginalized by the dominant white culture, I imagine they'd be more confused and possibly delighted to be labeled as unconditionally French by some rear end in a top hat.

Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007


Soiled Meat
Sorry for the dumb question, but I just rewatched Hovus Pocus and now really want to see a sequel; I don't have any experience reading between the lines on articles I could Google about film production, so can anyone tell me how that's going? Is (was) it being filmed? Or is it still theoretical?

Failed Imagineer
Sep 22, 2018

Xealot posted:

What a confusing hill to die on.

Who's dying on it? By any objective standard there is precisely one poster deciding to have a meltdown for no real reason. I get it tho, this is silly season

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004

Xealot posted:

What a confusing hill to die on. The French have profoundly never faced systemic oppression on the basis of their perceived ethnicity. Until recent history, they were among the worst colonial oppressors. Calling them "frogs" is on par with calling a white American a "gringo" or a Briton a "limey." Like, at worst it's kind of rude and mostly just embarrassing for the person delivering the insult.

Given that Middle Eastern or francophone African people in France are constantly marginalized by the dominant white culture, I imagine they'd be more confused and possibly delighted to be labeled as unconditionally French by some rear end in a top hat.

Spain is an imperialist empire with a similar history as France. Any of you brave defenders of using slurs wanna tell me why it’s okay to call Spanish people (who identify as white, mind you) slurs?

E: it should also be noted that Mexican born Mexicans use the term “gringo” for anyone born in the US, including Mexican Americans, and is absolutely used as a term to define otherness between Mexicans. Mexicans born in the US use equal language to otherize their southern born brothers (ie. paisa/mojado/etc), which just further cements how systemic racism has nothing to do with “white/black” and everything to do with capitalist oppression and division of the working class.

ruddiger fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Nov 5, 2020

pospysyl
Nov 10, 2012



Xealot posted:

What a confusing hill to die on. The French have profoundly never faced systemic oppression on the basis of their perceived ethnicity. Until recent history, they were among the worst colonial oppressors. Calling them "frogs" is on par with calling a white American a "gringo" or a Briton a "limey." Like, at worst it's kind of rude and mostly just embarrassing for the person delivering the insult.

Given that Middle Eastern or francophone African people in France are constantly marginalized by the dominant white culture, I imagine they'd be more confused and possibly delighted to be labeled as unconditionally French by some rear end in a top hat.

Tell that to the Quebecois. Vive le Québec libre!

Rageaholic
May 31, 2005

Old Town Road to EGOT

https://twitter.com/consequence/status/1324456927729012740

How'd that theatrical release work out for you, Chris?

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 12, 2015

by Cyrano4747

Failed Imagineer posted:

Who's dying on it? By any objective standard there is precisely one poster deciding to have a meltdown for no real reason. I get it tho, this is silly season

i love how people on SA will always have the dumbest idiot meltdowns

and then turn to the guy who's been calling them morons and go "LOOK AT THIS GUY HAVING A MELTDOWN"

e: like did I miss something, because afaik you're the one crying shitlib tears over the feelings of white people, not me

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

X-Ray Pecs
May 11, 2008

New York
Ice Cream
TV
Travel
~Good Times~

WeedlordGoku69 posted:

...huh? :psyduck:

the idea of getting up in arms about anti-french racism is amusing to me because french people do not face any kind of meaningful systemic oppression. french people are whitey. being called a "frog" or a "cheese-eating surrender monkey" is about the worst thing a french person will ever face as a result of their ethnicity in the wide bulk of the world, and because this is not backed by any kind of systemic oppression, it's just kind of annoying.

meanwhile, anti-chinese racism, y'know, gets people killed and maimed when poo poo like COVID happens. bit more serious, that.

"oh no, people might be a jerk to me" from whitey looks, at best, extremely quaint when not-whitey's equivalent worry is "oh no, people might murder me in the street for not looking white enough."

This isn’t the first time you’ve presumed to speak on the behalf of the populace of a non-American nation, maybe you should sit back and chill.

Failed Imagineer
Sep 22, 2018

WeedlordGoku69 posted:

crying shitlib tears

Please don't tell the other shitlibs that I cried

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004

WeedlordGoku69 posted:

racism in 2020 is just deeply amusing to me

WeedlordGoku69 posted:

like I'm back to wondering if this is some kind of elaborate joke now because there's no way this many of you are this dumb.

WeedlordGoku69 posted:

i'm pretty sure continuing to participate in it is going to give me CTE

WeedlordGoku69 posted:

i love how people on SA will always have the dumbest idiot meltdowns

quote:

"LOOK AT THIS GUY HAVING A MELTDOWN"

Insulting the intelligence of others while joking about brain damage, just having a normal one in the greenlight thread.

E: I’m glad someone brought up liberalism because the biggest complaint about libs is their SUPPORT FOR THE SYSTEMIC RACIAL QUO. Choosing to use their language of otherization is peak liberalism.

ruddiger fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Nov 5, 2020

BaldDwarfOnPCP
Jun 26, 2019

by Pragmatica

WeedlordGoku69 posted:

i love how people on SA will always have the dumbest idiot meltdowns

and then turn to the guy who's been calling them morons and go "LOOK AT THIS GUY HAVING A MELTDOWN"

e: like did I miss something, because afaik you're the one crying shitlib tears over the feelings of white people, not me

Thish might be a bridge too far, dog

Metis of the Chat Thread
Aug 1, 2014


what on earth is happening in here

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

At some point it's better to just say "well gently caress" and move on.

Prowler
May 24, 2004

Comparing an entire group of people that you do not like--nationality, ethnicity, whatever--to an animal is literally dehumanizing that group of people. Is it as egregious as saying the n-word or using "gay" as pejorative? No, but people spend a lot of effort trying to justify the latter as liberalism gone amok. Which seems familiar to this issue.

Here's a thought: maybe just don't refer to groups of people as animals, since it is possibly the most classic form of racism. It may not seem racist in context, and it may not mean you're racist, but it definitely makes you seem like a dick.

Metis of the Chat Thread
Aug 1, 2014


We really need movies to come back, huh

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.

pospysyl posted:

Tell that to the Quebecois. Vive le Québec libre!

We used to be told to "speak white", aka English.

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CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013
🍀👽🆚🪖🏋

Bingo Cop Metis posted:

We really need movies to come back, huh

No we need vine to come back.

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