Fire Emblem Megathread: Class-change warfare

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Amppelix: Aug 6, 2010

Cattail Prophet posted:

I forget, did they at least just stick with they/them for Artur and the dragons, or did they also try to shove in some neopronouns?

GBA support limits didn't do the attempts at representation any favors, either. Iirc the only indications that the two trans characters (Franz and Amelia) are in fact trans, are buried in one specific A support for each of them. And like, I get it, having them immediately out themselves to every single person they interact with would obviously have been a bad move, but if the majority of players aren't actually going to see your representation, does it even really exist?

that just sounds like another consequence of it being a text edit of an existing game and not an original thing

E: wait that's exactly the same thing as you were trying to say im dumb

Amppelix fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Nov 6, 2020

# ? Nov 6, 2020 23:02

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# ? Apr 20, 2024 00:35

Metis of the Chat Thread: Aug 1, 2014

hopeandjoy posted:

Tried The Four Kings.

Sat through 20 minutes of dialog in the tiny gba dialog balloons with a very unlikable protagonist before heading to the first map where you�re fighting like 20 units with three starting ones.

Your Jeigan is a rouge with strength that�s already capped at 10.

I game over immediately from getting hit twice while having the triangle advantage.

...I�ll give it another shot but the initial impression is uh. Not good.

It's a very, uhhh, optimised hack. The guy who made it is pretty into low turn count strategies and efficiency and it really shows in how the maps are designed. The first map is straightforward once you get onto the right path, but if you do anything else you die right away. It gets very frustrating in later chapters when it wants to make you move super fast by spawning 20/20 reinforcements every turn. I had a lot of fun with all the prfs, and I did grow to like the idiot protag, but you have to be in the right mindset for it.

# ? Nov 6, 2020 23:14

Bad Video Games: Sep 17, 2017

Good to know I need to delete 4 King's, thanks. I hate playing for turn counts. It's one of the things I keep hitting my head against in Valkyria Chronicles.

I have all the ones mentioned in this thread on my GBA except Crimson Arm. How is that one?

# ? Nov 6, 2020 23:30

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Cattail Prophet posted:

I forget, did they at least just stick with they/them for Artur and the dragons, or did they also try to shove in some neopronouns?

GBA support limits didn't do the attempts at representation any favors, either. Iirc the only indications that the two trans characters (Franz and Amelia) are in fact trans, are buried in one specific A support for each of them. And like, I get it, having them immediately out themselves to every single person they interact with would obviously have been a bad move, but if the majority of players aren't actually going to see your representation, does it even really exist?

I mean, you can have a character be subtly trans without explicitly confirming it, there's no right/wrong way, but at the same time as a romhack it's mostly going to get people who already played FE8, and they'd have no reason to think Amelia and Franz are suddenly trans now.

Plus a lot of their choices are kind of... stereotypical? Like Franz has long hair, Artur is relatively androgynous, Amelia is cute and young. Iunno, why can't Tethys be a transwoman or Gerik be NB, you know? It's not the worst thing in the world but it piles on with all of the hack's other fumbles.

# ? Nov 6, 2020 23:32

hopeandjoy: Nov 28, 2014

Bingo Cop Metis posted:

It's a very, uhhh, optimised hack. The guy who made it is pretty into low turn count strategies and efficiency and it really shows in how the maps are designed. The first map is straightforward once you get onto the right path, but if you do anything else you die right away. It gets very frustrating in later chapters when it wants to make you move super fast by spawning 20/20 reinforcements every turn. I had a lot of fun with all the prfs, and I did grow to like the idiot protag, but you have to be in the right mindset for it.

Yikes, probably won't be my thing then. I'm a chronic Normal player.

Sigh. I just want another GBA Fire Emblem game that isn't the three that already exist.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 00:34

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

hopeandjoy posted:

Yikes, probably won't be my thing then. I'm a chronic Normal player.

Sigh. I just want another GBA Fire Emblem game that isn't the three that already exist.

there's... plenty of hacks that accomplish that? Last Promise's writing is terrible but gameplay-wise it's basically that, it's not overly hard or anything.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 00:50

Rimusutera: Oct 17, 2014

Wasn't Four Kings the one advertised as having like, personal weapons for everyone? That immediately turned me off from it when I saw that.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 02:12

Metis of the Chat Thread: Aug 1, 2014

Yeah it does. I think it's pretty fun the way it's executed in game, but mileage may vary of course. Overall I think Four Kings has some satisfying challenge to it, but it never really gives you a chance to revel in victory. You beat a map after painstakingly figuring out the strategy, and then you move on to the next and see that you have to do it all over again. There's never a curbstomp map to take a breather and feel good about how strong your units are getting.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 02:28

blizzardvizard: Sep 12, 2012; Shhh... don't wake up the sleeping lion

I think I remember Four Kings' creator from the subreddit discord, and tbh he struck me as a "you have to have fun MY way" kind of guy

# ? Nov 7, 2020 03:49

Looper: Mar 1, 2012

yeah four kings has a skill system but so far the only real use if it I've seen is to give a bunch of enemies a "we don't give exp" skill to signpost where no fun zones are

# ? Nov 7, 2020 05:43

vilkacis: Feb 16, 2011

Walla posted:

I have all the ones mentioned in this thread on my GBA except Crimson Arm. How is that one?

It's probably the most fun i've had with a FE hack so far. It's rough around the edges (support conversations aren't in yet, some houses just have unmodified FE7 dialogue) but i liked both the characters/story and gameplay.

E: did a let's play of it in this thread if you want a preview.

vilkacis fucked around with this message at 05:51 on Nov 7, 2020

# ? Nov 7, 2020 05:46

Last Celebration: Mar 30, 2010

blizzardvizard posted:

I think I remember Four Kings' creator from the subreddit discord, and tbh he struck me as a "you have to have fun MY way" kind of guy

That kind of seems like a huge hurdle for a lot of fan games to work through. poo poo, it�s kind of even a problem with Fire Emblem proper at times, since someone had to think the earlygame of Awakening Lunatic was fun if the strategy the devs have literally posted online is Fredrick Emblem.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 05:47

Bad Video Games: Sep 17, 2017

vilkacis posted:

It's probably the most fun i've had with a FE hack so far. It's rough around the edges (support conversations aren't in yet, some houses just have unmodified FE7 dialogue) but i liked both the characters/story and gameplay.

E: did a let's play of it in this thread if you want a preview.

I knew I heard of it somewhere. I might have to give it a try.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 06:06

Hunt11: Jul 24, 2013; Grimey Drawer

I will definitely give Crimson Arm another playthrough when they finish it up.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 07:07

Bad Video Games: Sep 17, 2017

Both Road to Ruin and Soul of the Forest seem to give fun GBA Fire Emblem vibes.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 07:13

Fajita Queen: Jun 21, 2012

I haven't been able to find a version of Fire Emblem Girls that doesn't get savegame corrupted somewhere between 6 and 8 chapters in.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 08:19

vilkacis: Feb 16, 2011

Walla posted:

Both Road to Ruin and Soul of the Forest seem to give fun GBA Fire Emblem vibes.

Road to Ruin is serviceable, and very polished, but i ended up liking it a lot less than Crimson Arm. The gameplay's largely fine (outside a couple of maps i really hated), but the story and characters take some eeehhhhhh turns.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 10:07

Amppelix: Aug 6, 2010

Well i played 1.5 chapters of sun god's wrath inspired by this discussion. seems fine to me, although i didn't like how many characters get instantly thrown in your face. it has a whole bunch of thracia mechanics like capturing and fatigue, so i suppose i'm obligated to play more of it now to support my fellow fatigue likers.

E: ok thinking on it further, what i actually dislike is how many mechanics it immediately throws in your face. like not only does everyone have skills, but there's like 20 different weapon types to inspect in the prologue alone and most of them are effective against something, or target resistance, or use magic, etc etc. it's just impossible to absorb all of that and you're bound to forget something important.

Amppelix fucked around with this message at 12:03 on Nov 7, 2020

# ? Nov 7, 2020 11:25

Bad Video Games: Sep 17, 2017

vilkacis posted:

Road to Ruin is serviceable, and very polished, but i ended up liking it a lot less than Crimson Arm. The gameplay's largely fine (outside a couple of maps i really hated), but the story and characters take some eeehhhhhh turns.

I remember the LP of that one as well so I'm going to stick with Soul of the Forest. It seems interesting, and I think the viewpoint character might be an Archer Lord going by the Prologue.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 15:29

Fajita Queen: Jun 21, 2012

Amppelix posted:

Well i played 1.5 chapters of sun god's wrath inspired by this discussion. seems fine to me, although i didn't like how many characters get instantly thrown in your face. it has a whole bunch of thracia mechanics like capturing and fatigue, so i suppose i'm obligated to play more of it now to support my fellow fatigue likers.

E: ok thinking on it further, what i actually dislike is how many mechanics it immediately throws in your face. like not only does everyone have skills, but there's like 20 different weapon types to inspect in the prologue alone and most of them are effective against something, or target resistance, or use magic, etc etc. it's just impossible to absorb all of that and you're bound to forget something important.

That sounds similar to the biggest problem I had with Fates, especially Conquest in later maps.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 16:58

Amppelix: Aug 6, 2010

Yep, it's pretty much that. Way less debuffs going around though so calculating enemy phases is not a distant unreachable dream like it often feels like in conquest.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 17:17

ApplesandOranges: Jun 22, 2012; Thankee kindly.

I only really played Echoes once but I did appreciate that they gave you a mix between 'this is a hardcoded unit' like Saber, Python, etc. and 'feel free to pick what direction you want to take this guy' like the Ram Village kids and Atlas.

My only drop with the game is that the crit quotes are a bit of a step down compared to Awakening/Fates. Yeah those games had some really corny lines but they're fun (the lines, not Fates).

# ? Nov 7, 2020 17:44

Last Celebration: Mar 30, 2010

I think some people complained that they took too many liberties with Awakening which is why Fates/Echoes don�t really have any �Looks like Teach just got tenure� tier lines.

I don�t really mind much myself since crit quotes are usually just those things I peep a compilation of on YouTube once or twice a year (hard to hear them with animations off), whereas �I�m still hyper, LETS GO� is an iconic meme line I�ll get to hear a lot no matter what.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 17:59

FPzero: Oct 20, 2008; Game Over
Return of Mido

We'll finish Awful Emblem one day! Some day.

I hope!

# ? Nov 7, 2020 18:26

Artix: Apr 26, 2010; He's finally back, to kick some tail! And this time, he's goin' to jail!

We're getting closer! Some uh...personal stuff has come up for a few folks on the team but we might have another drop by the end of the year? Not gonna promise that though.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 18:29

Zoran: Aug 19, 2008; I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!

Some favorite crit quotes from Fates:

Mozu: "You smell like a goat!" and "You reap what you sow!"
Midori: "My diagnosis: you're done!"
Forrest: "I'm stunning. You're dead."
Flora: "Service with a smile!"

# ? Nov 7, 2020 18:55

Rimusutera: Oct 17, 2014

Mozu's smack talk is the loving best.

Also, everything Odin says is god tier.

Rimusutera fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Nov 7, 2020

# ? Nov 7, 2020 20:00

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

The Shortest Path posted:

I haven't been able to find a version of Fire Emblem Girls that doesn't get savegame corrupted somewhere between 6 and 8 chapters in.

i've tried twice to get through fegirls and gave up both times because rear end in a top hat reinforcements

# ? Nov 7, 2020 20:08

Eimi: Nov 23, 2013; I will never ~~log off~~shut up.

Hubert single handedly justifies all the bad crit quotes.

"WE WILL BURN TOGETHER!" "Just another bug to squash!" *Evil Laughter*

# ? Nov 7, 2020 20:08

Hellioning: Jun 27, 2008

I like crit quotes that imply the character is going to eat their victim.

Velouria is great.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 20:18

Wark Say: Feb 22, 2013; by Fluffdaddy

And as always:

# ? Nov 7, 2020 20:55

ROFL Octopus: Jun 20, 2014; LET ME EXPLAIN

The crit quotes in Echoes are by and large forgettable but I�ve always been a fan of Saber�s �Get a load of this!�. The line itself isn�t especially cool but Keith Silverstein�s delivery is.

Since crit quotes are basically tradition now, I�m hyped to see what they�d be in the hypothetical Genealogy remake. Who knows, an otherwise-forgettable character like Beowolf could get a new lease on life with a cool enough one liner.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 22:00

Scrap Dragon: Oct 6, 2013; SECRET TECHNIQUE:
DARK SHADOW
BLACK FALLEN ANGEL!

Yeah, crit quotes peaked early with �Pick a god and pray�

# ? Nov 7, 2020 22:01

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

ROFL Octopus posted:

Who knows, an otherwise-forgettable character like Beowolf could get a new lease on life with a cool enough one liner.

western fans dont care about him but beowolf was genuinely an incredibly popular character in fe4's heyday. There's a reason the shipping wars between BeowolfxLachesis and FinnxLachesis people were intense to the point that one manga adaptation completely removed him and FE5 hedges its bets by kind of confirming both.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 22:21

ROFL Octopus: Jun 20, 2014; LET ME EXPLAIN

Endorph posted:

western fans dont care about him but beowolf was genuinely an incredibly popular character in fe4's heyday. There's a reason the shipping wars between BeowolfxLachesis and FinnxLachesis people were intense to the point that one manga adaptation completely removed him and FE5 hedges its bets by kind of confirming both.

Haha, that�s pretty cool, I never knew that. I also forgot that Thracia introduced his crazy-strong bastard and his secret bloodline sword.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 22:51

chiasaur11: Oct 22, 2012

Last Celebration posted:

I think some people complained that they took too many liberties with Awakening which is why Fates/Echoes don�t really have any �Looks like Teach just got tenure� tier lines.

I don�t really mind much myself since crit quotes are usually just those things I peep a compilation of on YouTube once or twice a year (hard to hear them with animations off), whereas �I�m still hyper, LETS GO� is an iconic meme line I�ll get to hear a lot no matter what.

Echoes and Awakening had one team, Fates had a different team. (Echoes, Awakening, and Shadow Dragon were all localized by 8-4, Three Houses and Fates were in-house)

More importantly, Fates changed a lot more than Awakening, rewriting a few supports basically from scratch. I think that voice direction is a bigger factor in Fates having fewer memorable crit lines.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 23:08

Wark Say: Feb 22, 2013; by Fluffdaddy

ROFL Octopus posted:

The crit quotes in Echoes are by and large forgettable but I�ve always been a fan of Saber�s �Get a load of this!�. The line itself isn�t especially cool but Keith Silverstein�s delivery is.

Since crit quotes are basically tradition now, I�m hyped to see what they�d be in the hypothetical Genealogy remake. Who knows, an otherwise-forgettable character like Beowolf could get a new lease on life with a cool enough one liner.

I'm partial to Alm's "This is how it's done!" for earnestness + Kyle McCarley's almost Hiyama-esque hot-blooded screams when he finishes an opponent (regardless of crit). Erica Lindbeck also gave Celica one particular scream that sounds like she's channeling a hot-blooded mecha protagonist. Saber's "Move" is straight-up stone-cold as a crit line.

Endorph posted:

western fans dont care about him but beowolf was genuinely an incredibly popular character in fe4's heyday. There's a reason the shipping wars between BeowolfxLachesis and FinnxLachesis people were intense to the point that one manga adaptation completely removed him and FE5 hedges its bets by kind of confirming both.

Yeah, I forgot about that. Beowolf and Finn are kind of weird in that they're both middle-of-the-road as dads for physical-based 2nd gen kids but kind of an unspectacular units on their own. And even if he has pursuit and charge to pass down, like every time I think "Hmm, maybe I should have him paired with someone", bam!

Noish is right there (doesn't have pursuit, but has Charge and Critical, which can be passed regardless of class)
Jamke is right there (doesn't pass pursuit but has Charge and Adept, which can also be passed regardless of class)
Lex is right there. (doesn't pass pursuit but has Vantage and Paragon, which can also be passed regardless of class and work really really well for a couple of units)
Chulainn is right there. (doesn't pass pursuit but has LUNA, even if that can only work for some child units)

Compared to, like, Midir, Alec, Dew and Arden, then yeah, he (and Finn) are pretty okay. I think the biggest advantage he has over Finn is that he has more chance to grow his stats and help whoever he ends up fathering, but Finn is fairly solid as a dad unit due to Miracle and boosting Skill and Luck growths.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 23:15

Metis of the Chat Thread: Aug 1, 2014

Crit lines in Echoes don't have as much energy, but the other dialogue around battle makes up for it, in my opinion. See: "Sure, I'm still hyper. Let's MOVE!"

# ? Nov 7, 2020 23:30

Wark Say: Feb 22, 2013; by Fluffdaddy

Also, 8-4 and the voice-directing (I think it was Wendee Lee but it kinda has a very familiar feel like what Patrick Seitz himself does?) and voice-acting did a lot of lifting for Echoes' localization because, while I love some of the Japanese VA's, a lot of the script and voice acting is kinda boilerplate and uninspired.

The somewhat memorable list you can sorta boil to 5 groups.

Alm (Natsuki Hanae) & Celica (Nao Toyama) are no surprise great.
Clair (Aya Endo) is perfectly-cast as Clair.
Berkut (Tatsuhisa Suzuki) is great, but I don't know if I like him as much as Ian Sinclair
Saber (Takehito Koyasu) is fine. He's just not Keith Silverstein-good for the role.
The Elder White Wings (Lisa Taneda and Hitomi Nabatame) are also fine.

Wark Say fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Nov 7, 2020

# ? Nov 7, 2020 23:36

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# ? Apr 20, 2024 00:35

Terper: Jun 26, 2012

Wark Say posted:

Berkut (Tatsuhisa Suzuki) is great, but I don't know if I like him as much as Ian Sinclair

https://clips.twitch.tv/GoodSecretiveTeaPMSTwin

# ? Nov 7, 2020 23:41

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