Rejected Parents: if you can't figure it out you don't deserve a blog

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trickybiscuits: Jan 13, 2008; yospos

Tin Can Hit Man posted:

Something that is increasingly back on my radar as of late is how different boomers approach calling things out. Everything is hyperbolic. You're a "feminazi," or a "Social Justice Warrior," or a "snowflake."

So when confronted with words like "bigotry," "toxic," and "abuse," they treat it just as another form of hyperbole used to discredit and attack others. Their perspectives are so warped that they think you're playing the same game they are. They see you as no different than themselves because they cannot fathom themselves -- or anyone else -- being any different.

There have been more estranged parents in the past . . . year? Several months? using terms like "toxic" and "narcissistic" to describe their estranged children. They don't seem able to connect these descriptive words with their own behavior- if someone sat down with them and explained it to them, it wouldn't take- or even with an actual, solid definition. I've read a post that says that "Toxic just means someone makes you feel bad" without even the consideration that, if you make someone close to you feel bad, maybe that's a bad thing that you should address if you want to have a relationship with them.

People always say that therapy just gives an abuser more ways to abuse, but it's interesting to see that they don't really understand these terms even when they're using them.

quote:

quote:
Although I very much agree with what folks are saying in this thread, I am a bit uneasy with the term �gaslighting.� This is a term I hear from the estranged adults on the various sites regarding their terrible parents. Also from my own daughter regarding me.

What does �gaslighting� refer to anyway?

I so wish my daughter would describe my actual behaviours that bothered her as a child, with clear examples, and how they made her feel at the time. So I could get a sense of how I hurt her.

Instead, she uses words like �gaslighting�, narcissistic, toxic, triangulation, that I have to look up to see what they mean. And even then, I can�t figure out how they apply to me. I have to try to come up with examples which only seems to be putting my energy into *her* demeaning narrative.

I feel that one lesson I�ve learned from being the target of a bully like my daughter, is that I want to avoid labels, and stick to descriptions of behaviours that have hurt me.

For example, after many years of my accommodating her, supporting her, meeting her requests in babysitting her children etc., she suddenly decided at 37, that I am evil, and always have been! And I�m asked no questions, so have no opportunity to participate in a conversation.

If I foolishly try to give my perspective, I am �gaslighting.�

That�s one reason I�ve come to hate these labels, even though it has been really useful to me to read how a variety of hurtful behaviours are expressions of a disordered personality.

quote:
I agree and empathize with much of what you said even though I stated my son gaslighted me. My understanding is that the term comes from a movie (that I have not seen) but means manipulating and turning every situation so it seems like the target is at fault when it is likely the person doing the �gaslighting.� Like you, I would rather hear examples of the behaviors and actions rather than terms and labels such as �toxic� which means about nothing since it is so subjective without details. I think the very act of accusing you of being so �evil� and making her life so awful are examples of gaslighting. She makes the statement but has no actual examples to back it up.

And you wonder if she is right. (we all have been there and yes I would say that is what being gaslighted means�making you feel bad and responsible for the fall out because of her vague and meaningless accusations.

quote:
I see from the posts here, that gaslighting amounts to removing all responsibility for the hostility involved in estrangement from the adult child who does this, to the parent.

And I�m beginning to see how we become susceptible to being gaslit. It is because we let others define who we are, instead of valuing our own perceptions. We believe that if we only follow the norms for being good mothers, our children will reflect that back to us.

They want to know exactly what they did wrong instead of general terms, and then we're back to the Missing Missing Reasons.

# ? Nov 5, 2020 03:10

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 20:13

Sherry Bahm: Jul 30, 2003; filled with dolphins

It's all part of their tactics. They ask for specific examples because they'll explain to you how you got it all wrong and/or you misunderstood and/or it was just the one time and/or it's not a big deal. And if you refuse to play that game then clearly you must have made it up. If you're not invested enough to sit down and scrutinize every single event from your childhood, then it couldn't possibly have been that bad!

# ? Nov 5, 2020 03:29

BrigadierSensible: Feb 16, 2012; I've got a pocket full of cheese🧀, and a garden full of trees🌴.

Scene:
"Please stop yelling at me! That is very toxic behaviour."

"What do you mean by toxic? Give me examples of this."

"You always yell at me."

"When did I ever yell at you?"

"How about last Tuesday, after lunch."

"Oh that was only because you spoke to that black man as we were leaving the restaurant. You know what those people are like. That doesn't count."

"Well then what about the day before?"

"You mean when you left the dirty towel on the towel rack? I mean you really should learn to clean up after yourself better.

... many excuses later ...

"You're yelling at me right now!"

"Why is your generation so sensitive? Can't we have a conversation?"

*later on the internet*
My daughter accused me of being 'toxic', (whatever that means), and yelling at her but could not provide any real examples and refused to talk to me about it. I think she has a personality disorder, which accounts for her filthy slovenly ways and is trying to gaslight me.
End Scene

# ? Nov 5, 2020 04:03

Tunicate: May 15, 2012

Reminds me of someone on SA pointing out internet guys who were using 'creepy' as an insult in a way where they obviously didn't know what it meant, which tells an entire story about the person.

I think it was a TV tropes mock thread?

# ? Nov 5, 2020 05:22

bob dobbs is dead: Oct 8, 2017; I love peeps; Nap Ghost

give us a link for the creepy bit, sounds like a funny dealio

# ? Nov 5, 2020 08:14

trickybiscuits: Jan 13, 2008; yospos

BrigadierSensible posted:

Scene:
"Please stop yelling at me! That is very toxic behaviour."

You don't have to agree with them that it doesn't count. Not that that would be successful either, of course.

# ? Nov 5, 2020 09:48

Tunicate: May 15, 2012

bob dobbs is dead posted:

give us a link for the creepy bit, sounds like a funny dealio

I found a more recent mention of the phenomenon in the IOSM thread but I don't think that's where I first saw it on SA.

# ? Nov 5, 2020 23:37

Mexican Deathgasm: Aug 17, 2010; Ramrod XTreme

I just finished reading this whole thread over a week and it's been a combination of nausea, rage, and an emotional enema. I'm not a violent person but holy poo poo did I ever get the visceral urge to strangle some of the parents talked about in this thread. Thank you all for sharing your stories, it's taught me a lot about my own life and made certain things easier to bear.

I'm nearing 40 and it's only been over the last few years I've realized how much my childhood hosed me up. I was raised in the Jehovah's Witness cult in a proudly ignorant family. When I was really young my dad got into a serious accident that involved some brain damage, which left him with a lot of anger and other physical disabilities. Our family communicated through screaming and derision mostly, led by my mother who was incredibly negative and angry. She bad-mouthed my father constantly and I didn't see a single loving interaction between them my whole life. There were also virtually none between my parents and myself or my siblings, we were treated like a nuisance most of the time.

I was the youngest of four kids and my two brothers were five and eight years older than me, my sister was 10 years older and left home when I was eight. I remember maybe two positive interactions with my brothers, the rest was violence and derision. Because of the cult, I wasn't allowed to have non-JW friends and there were no other JWs in our "congregation" around my age so my childhood was a long combo of fear, isolation and self-loathing. Well, that and constant brainwashing which took until my mid-twenties to get rid of.

One particular fun time was when I was eight and moving to a different bedroom, my oldest brother found a journal I had hidden under my mattress where I wrote about how miserable I was and how I wanted to die. My brothers though that was hilarious and my parents were slightly worried, but mostly angry that I'd write something like that

I'm basically no-contact with my family at this point, other than the occasional like on Instagram. Man, writing this poo poo still makes me feel sick and guilty for being a "whiner".

# ? Nov 6, 2020 22:56

Veni Vidi Ameche!: Nov 2, 2017; by Fluffdaddy

Mexican Deathgasm posted:

I'm basically no-contact with my family at this point, other than the occasional like on Instagram. Man, writing this poo poo still makes me feel sick and guilty for being a "whiner".

No one here will think you�re whining, and this is the right place to unload this.

# ? Nov 6, 2020 23:01

Eshettar: May 9, 2013; *whispers*

_{yospos, bithc}

quote:

Help - Just found out my brother has been stalking me and is planning on coming to my work to confront me

Long time lurker, first time poster. Ran into a situation today that I have not a clue how to handle and am hoping for some advice. Sorry if it's rambling, I'm a bit shook up.

So, I have been basically estranged from my much older half brother for most of my life. He was 15 when I was born, and left home when I was five. Since then, we never had much of a relationship, due to him mostly not being interested in staying in contact with a much younger half sister that he didn't really know at all (or so I thought that was the reason). He has never had a very good relationship with my parents (we share a mom, my dad has been his step dad since he was 10). In fact five years ago he flew up from his home and showed up on my parent's door step on Mother's Day to tell my mom (by starting calmly, but then eventually yelling and screaming) how horrible of a mother she was and that he never wanted to speak to her again. After not speaking for a few years, one day he just showed up on my parent's door step again and told them that he would like to have a relationship again. My parents are wary of him, but they wanted a relationship with their grandchildren (he is married with two kids), so they agreed to try again.

So I still hadn't had any contact with my brother in at least 5 years, until a few months ago when my mom told me that he wanted to come to my wedding this June. So I sent him an invitation, but heard nothing back. My mom finally got sick of his games and emailed him asking why he won't respond to me and wondering what exactly his problem was. Well, this is where it starts to freak me out. He called her immediately and began calmly, telling her that when he decided to have a relationship with them again, one of the agreements was that basically they all agree that I don't exist. (My mom DOES NOT recall ever agreeing to this). After she disagreed with him, he started screaming and yelling about how much he hates me and how I ruined his life by being born, and how he follows me on fb and I am an alcoholic and a miserable, angry person (both really not true). And to cap it all off, he told her that he knows where I live and where I work and he is going to be here where I live next month on a certain date and he is going to come to my work and confront me. WTF??!! I've already figured that I need to tell my boss tomorrow that I can't be at work on those days, and I've removed him from fb and made my profile completely private. But this is pretty scary to me. He's harbored this hatred for almost 30 years. I don't really know how crazy he is, but from seeing what he emailed my mom and hearing what she said about their conversation, he seems a bit unhinged. Above all, it's really weird to think "my brother has been stalking me". Not sure what to do here

TL:DR - My estranged, much older half brother has apparently hated me with a white hot fury for almost 30 years, has been stalking me on fb, and wants to come to my work to confront me.

# ? Nov 6, 2020 23:04

ohnobugs: Feb 22, 2003

Mexican Deathgasm posted:

Man, writing this poo poo still makes me feel sick and guilty for being a "whiner".

I feel the same whenever I write or talk about my poo poo. You're not a whiner. You're a survivor.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 00:58

trickybiscuits: Jan 13, 2008; yospos

Mexican Deathgasm posted:

I'm basically no-contact with my family at this point, other than the occasional like on Instagram. Man, writing this poo poo still makes me feel sick and guilty for being a "whiner".

That's a common feeling when people start talking about what they've gone through, maybe because they feel like their feelings are worth taking seriously. Your feelings and experience are worth taking seriously. You deserve to be happy.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 01:36

Sandwich Anarchist: Sep 12, 2008

I keep an open line of contact with my dad for the sole purpose of his house going to me when he finally, mercifully dies. Every other blood relation except my sister has had zero contact with me since my mom died 5 years ago.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 01:44

nishi koichi: Feb 16, 2007; everyone feels that way and gives up.
that's how they get away with it.

trickybiscuits posted:

That's a common feeling when people start talking about what they've gone through, maybe because they feel like their feelings are worth taking seriously. Your feelings and experience are worth taking seriously. You deserve to be happy.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 01:45

nishi koichi: Feb 16, 2007; everyone feels that way and gives up.
that's how they get away with it.

thoughts and prayers posted:

The reason I gave the specific answer I did was because he said 'I have been able to do it easily for a long time, but haven't'.

If it was someone who was in danger, of course that advice would be poo poo, and I wouldn't ever give it, because that would be cruel as hell.

But, when someone has ability and is avoiding it, they need different advice. Because learned helplessness is a thing, and it's one of the barriers to overcome to permanently break the cycle.

You know, everyone who is in an abusive situation isn't 100% helpless, there are degrees of entanglement. And many times, exerting the power you do have to get out, when you have it, can create openings for more power to get out. This is one of the lessons my therapists taught me to do. It led to me standing up to my father about his beatings and molestation, and also (years later) to escape from a physically and sexually abusive 'friendship' I got into later on.

Conversely, when you treat someone who DOES have power to change their situation (like he said he did) with only 'oh poor you, you're so helpless' you can reinforce the learned helplessness.

i did miss that line. i agree with you, mostly, though we still don�t know what this person�s mother is like. it�s possible i�m projecting my anxiety

# ? Nov 7, 2020 01:47

SulfurMonoxideCute: Feb 9, 2008; I was under direct orders not to die
🐵❌💀

Mexican Deathgasm posted:

Man, writing this poo poo still makes me feel sick and guilty for being a "whiner".

You are absolutely not a whiner for talking about things that hurt you. Talking and venting is so good for your mental health. I encourage it, because it has really helped me over the past few years.

I was often sold on promises that would then be broken, repeatedly, by both parents. Stand alone events by otherwise good people aren't too bad, but consistent events stacked on top of all sorts of other forms of abuse just becomes another form of abuse.

I was a former gifted child (TM). I excelled in visual art, and I amazingly had it somewhat nurtured for an otherwise neglected scapegoat. I'd ask for oil paints as gifts instead of toys or clothes, usually colours Bob Ross talked about, I watched him religiously in my tweens and teens. I was given instructional books, canvases, sketchbooks, fancy pencils, a wide variety of brushes. I was in advanced art classes in high school, won awards, my grandfather even paid my tuition to art college. It was a big deal and I even got hired by family friends to do murals and commissions and got paid, although it was barely anything because I was 14 and doing a favour.

One thing I wanted more than anything was to paint a huge oceanscape mural, Robert Wyland style, on my bedroom wall. Like, the whole wall. I started talking about it when I was probably 12. We were renters so it wasn't possible, but my mom kept promising I could as soon as we ever bought a house, like with a big smile because she was so proud of my talent. We bought a house when I was 15. I brought up the topic when we moved in, and was told no because it would lower the property value. I was really confused and asked why she would sell the house again right away. She wasn't going to, I asked why it couldn't just be painted over when she did plan on selling and was told to drop it forever, I was never going to be allowed to do it.

Probably just as well, I only lasted another year and a half before I had enough of everything and took the gently caress off :cheers:

I never did do my mural, but I do have a giant tapestry of a landscape photo I took on my wall. I kind of lost interest in being a professional artist, but I love photography and do some digital art very sporadically.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 02:33

Mexican Deathgasm: Aug 17, 2010; Ramrod XTreme

Picnic Princess posted:

She wasn't going to, I asked why it couldn't just be painted over when she did plan on selling and was told to drop it forever, I was never going to be allowed to do it.

There are so many parents that don't realize what it means when you flippantly break promises made to kids. It absolutely destroys trust.

Thank you all for the reassurance. It means a lot.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 03:00

nishi koichi: Feb 16, 2007; everyone feels that way and gives up.
that's how they get away with it.

i grew up hearing �a promise is a comfort to a fool� each time i trusted her to do what she promised me she would do (and she didn�t, of course)

good life lesson, i guess.

at some point you just stop believing anything they say, only rely on yourself, and never accept anything they want to do for you, because it always comes with strings attached if they do it

# ? Nov 7, 2020 03:05

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

nishi koichi posted:

at some point you just stop believing anything they say, only rely on yourself, and never accept anything they want to do for you, because it always comes with strings attached if they do it

I know this feeling so well. They never actually want to do anything that's not convenient for themselves, and will withdraw favours at any time.

Bright side, sometimes this means their punishments are almost as unreliable and half-assed.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 03:18

Crimson Harvest: Jul 14, 2004; I'm a GENERAL, not some opera floozy!

Both of my parents will offer to do something for me, and if I say yes they'll forget until I ask them for it directly. I can't tell if its on purpose.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 03:34

ohnobugs: Feb 22, 2003

Ghost Leviathan posted:

I know this feeling so well. They never actually want to do anything that's not convenient for themselves, and will withdraw favours at any time.

Bright side, sometimes this means their punishments are almost as unreliable and half-assed.

Yeah. You learn not to depend on them. And they don't even understand how they're undermining their own respect.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 03:41

SulfurMonoxideCute: Feb 9, 2008; I was under direct orders not to die
🐵❌💀

You can only have your heart broken so many times before you just give up completely. It's so hard for kids who can't just "dump" their family and move on. Just consistent, repeat hurt, over and over with no escape, you just and up in complete social withdrawal and develop severe trust issues.

The fact I still cry to this day when someone does something nice for me, even just coworkers signing a fuckin birthday card for me says a lot about what life was like as a child.

When the Lowtax poo poo started going down and Discords starred being formed, I found out one of the groups really wanted me to join. I couldn't believe it. I just kind of sat there with my hand over my mouth then actually cried over it. It's overwhelming being wanted when you spent half your life being ignored by the people you were told loved you the most in the world.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 03:53

Sandwich Anarchist: Sep 12, 2008

Crimson Harvest posted:

Both of my parents will offer to do something for me, and if I say yes they'll forget until I ask them for it directly. I can't tell if its on purpose.

It 100% is

# ? Nov 7, 2020 04:55

atomicgeek: Jul 5, 2007; noony noony noony nooooooo

Picnic Princess posted:

When the Lowtax poo poo started going down and Discords starred being formed, I found out one of the groups really wanted me to join. I couldn't believe it. I just kind of sat there with my hand over my mouth then actually cried over it. It's overwhelming being wanted when you spent half your life being ignored by the people you were told loved you the most in the world.

Fellow strange child of broken parents here. I don't post much, but I read some threads religiously and maybe that gives me a false prosocial sense or w/e but this moves me to tell you, Picnic Princess: I am glad you exist and I love reading your posts, even the sad and angry ones. I know you're not posting to me in any way, but very often I feel seen when you post, in a way I can't really explain. I think you're a good and valuable person. I'm pissed that the people who raised you don't see it.

Edited to add, thanks Allie Brosh:

atomicgeek fucked around with this message at 07:55 on Nov 7, 2020

# ? Nov 7, 2020 07:45

Sherry Bahm: Jul 30, 2003; filled with dolphins

Picnic Princess posted:

The fact I still cry to this day when someone does something nice for me, even just coworkers signing a fuckin birthday card for me says a lot about what life was like as a child.

I still struggle with this. I absolutely refuse to let anyone know my birthday simply because I can't handle gifts. It just never feels right or deserved to me and it's easier to keep that under wraps than have to explain myself. I've told my loved ones to just love me a little every day, and skip all the holidays and otherwise "special" days people would normally celebrate or make note of.

I think I'm getting better though. Recent circumstances put me in a position where I needed help, and people around me rallied in a way that I'd never experienced before and it absolutely *destroyed* me. Somehow I managed to keep a straight face up until I got home and just bawled for what felt like hours.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 08:28

BrigadierSensible: Feb 16, 2012; I've got a pocket full of cheese🧀, and a garden full of trees🌴.

Tin Can Hit Man posted:

I still struggle with this. I absolutely refuse to let anyone know my birthday simply because I can't handle gifts. It just never feels right or deserved to me and it's easier to keep that under wraps than have to explain myself. I've told my loved ones to just love me a little every day, and skip all the holidays and otherwise "special" days people would normally celebrate or make note of.

I think I'm getting better though. Recent circumstances put me in a position where I needed help, and people around me rallied in a way that I'd never experienced before and it absolutely *destroyed* me. Somehow I managed to keep a straight face up until I got home and just bawled for what felt like hours.

Birthday gifts can be a minefield.

First of all, all eyes are on you, and the spotlight can be very intimidating and harsh for those who don't like it or are not used to it.

Then there is the performative joy and gratitude that you need to show. If you are not happy/excited enough to get your gift then at best you have hurt their feelings, and at worst you are an ungrateful brat. If you are too happy/excited then at best you are now stuck getting the same thing again and again for the rest of your life, (and used as proof that they truly know you i.e. "I got you this when yuo were 7 and you loved it so much then"), or at worst proof you are a liar and/or a hysterical drama queen.

I have a friend who cannot stand opening gifts in public because of this. She will literally run away and open them in private so she doesn't have to deal with the scrutiny and the pressure of giving the "right" reaction.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 09:14

trickybiscuits: Jan 13, 2008; yospos

quote:

Hi, my ED�s relationship before the estrangement with my sisters and their children was basically through me. It was me that had the social gatherings at my house and invited everyone.

Pre-estrangement, she didn�t socialize with family outside of family gatherings. Post-estrangement, she then started trying to keep a connection with them and exclude me.

I found this whole situation to be very high schoolish and felt like she intentionally was trying to prove to everyone in the family that I was a bad person and she was righteous in her moves to cut me out.

My sisters and their children were put in a very awkward situation. While they felt bad for me but they weren�t sure what to do.

If an EC doesn�t have a relationship with other family members before an estrangement but then tries to make a relationship after an estrangement. I feel it�s a power play to try to convince themselves and others that they have made the right decision in cutting you out of their lives. Family members are pawns in this scenario and hopefully they will see through this game.

Nobody actually loves anybody else and everything is a bid for power- what a horrible way to see the world.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 13:19

Lieutenant Dan: Oct 27, 2009; Weedlord Bonerhitler

Goddamn, I read a bunch of this thread and seeing goons react appropriately to people's parents being shitlords is really, really edifying. I had a mom who thinks every single thing I do is a personal attack on her, she would call me a slut if I had guy friends, used to throw trash at me when my room wasn't clean, told me a lot of people who were my friend only wanted to gently caress me, and, as an adult, thinks I have tattoos and am gay/trans SPECIFICALLY TO SPITE HER. I'm almost 30, she's 100% going to show up to my wedding and call me a woman and make fun of my wife and cause a huge fuss. The worst part is, my dad is the sweetest kindest man, and wasn't around a lot when I was a kid, but he's still married to her, and I can't talk to him without her freaking out. She used to yell and punish me if I got too close to my dad cause it's "not fair that I like him more". When I was like, 6.

It's good to see that poo poo isn't normal. Maybe I should go back to therapy. I have C-PTSD from a non-parent series of incidents, and my mom says I made it up just to spite her.... despite taking meds for it since I was 16. She's also recently taken to pretending/believing that I chose my current career (that's going really well, thank god) because she thinks she "inspired" me. Which is insane. I've wanted to do this job since before I could talk. Like, my earliest memories were of doing this thing. My dad remembers me wanting to do this thing since I was a baby. My mom just... invented the fact that she thinks I'm doing this because of her, not because it's my lifelong dream. When I disagree, she insults my job, manager/boss, workplace, and says horrible poo poo about my career. Whenever I'm on the phone telling my dad good news, she's there to say outlandish, insulting things ("how do you know your job is real and it's not a trick"????).

Anyway I visited for Christmas and she made fun of Native American land rights at the dinner table shouting loudly and waving her hands in the air like Trump mocking that reporter, and when I started to get upset she made fun of me and said, I poo poo you not, "If you love them so much why don't you be with them"

What the hell. How am I gonna invite my dad into my life without this screaming racist harpy woman telling me everyone hates me and is lying and all my personal choices aren't actually choices and my life, career, future wife, physical appearance, and lifestyle are all 100% to spite her. For 30 years.

Lieutenant Dan fucked around with this message at 13:38 on Nov 7, 2020

# ? Nov 7, 2020 13:32

Rutibex: Sep 9, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

Clitch posted:

It...kinda does.

the bible doesn't say parents can be abusive it says "Honor thy Mother and thy Father". honor doesn't mean obey. you can honor someone by telling them their behavior is sinful and they need to correct it to get into heaven

throw this one at them:

1 Timothy 5:8 ESV posted:

But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Rutibex fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Nov 7, 2020

# ? Nov 7, 2020 15:14

Error 404: Jul 17, 2009; MAGE CURES PLOT

Tin Can Hit Man posted:

I still struggle with this. I absolutely refuse to let anyone know my birthday simply because I can't handle gifts. It just never feels right or deserved to me and it's easier to keep that under wraps than have to explain myself.

Holy gently caress.

I've been following this thread and having sympathy pains and sensible chuckles at how like all the others my parents are (no contact with mom since age 15, no contact with dad, step-mom, and sister for about 6 years now).

But this quoted bit right here, holy gently caress. I'm exactly like this and have never found a way to explain it that wasn't immediately brushed aside by friends, (ex) partners, etc.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 16:07

trickybiscuits: Jan 13, 2008; yospos

Rutibex posted:

the bible doesn't say parents can be abusive it says "Honor thy Mother and thy Father". honor doesn't mean obey. you can honor someone by telling them their behavior is sinful and they need to correct it to get into heaven

throw this one at them:

Also Ephesians 6:4, "And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord."

# ? Nov 7, 2020 16:29

Panfilo: Aug 27, 2011; EXISTENCE IS PAIN😬

This thread especially makes me wonder about those divorces where one parent claims the ex poisoned their kids opinion of them. I mean for the sake of discussion, let's take the statement at face value. How likely is it one parent can manipulate a child into hating a parent all things being neutral?

I remember one day finding a photo of a strange woman when looking for my stepdads tools for a project. I asked him about her, and he said she was his daughter which came as a shock as he had NEVER mentioned her in the ten years he lived with us. I know He had 3 kids from one former marriage and was previously married before that, but I didn't know he had a third divorce nor had a another daughter. I asked why we never met or heard from her and he said that when she was little her mom divorced him and 'poisoned her opinion of him' leading to the daughter going full no contact. Now maybe he was just a private guy when it came to family matters,i don't know. He had gotten full custody of his 3 known kids as well and was very involved with them so he didn't necessarily strike me as a deadbeat dad but who knows.

Just made me suspicious how this never got brought up and explained away with "her mom raised her to hate me and she never wanted anything to do with me" without further mention. I've had some older (male) Co workers with similar claims, "my ex wife brainwashed my kid into hating me" and I find it suspicious.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 17:04

ElHuevoGrande: May 21, 2006; Oh. . .

Panfilo posted:

This thread especially makes me wonder about those divorces where one parent claims the ex poisoned their kids opinion of them. I mean for the sake of discussion, let's take the statement at face value. How likely is it one parent can manipulate a child into hating a parent all things being neutral?

I remember one day finding a photo of a strange woman when looking for my stepdads tools for a project. I asked him about her, and he said she was his daughter which came as a shock as he had NEVER mentioned her in the ten years he lived with us. I know He had 3 kids from one former marriage and was previously married before that, but I didn't know he had a third divorce nor had a another daughter. I asked why we never met or heard from her and he said that when she was little her mom divorced him and 'poisoned her opinion of him' leading to the daughter going full no contact. Now maybe he was just a private guy when it came to family matters,i don't know. He had gotten full custody of his 3 known kids as well and was very involved with them so he didn't necessarily strike me as a deadbeat dad but who knows.

Just made me suspicious how this never got brought up and explained away with "her mom raised her to hate me and she never wanted anything to do with me" without further mention. I've had some older (male) Co workers with similar claims, "my ex wife brainwashed my kid into hating me" and I find it suspicious.

My mother tried that when my parents split up. Like really committed rants and age inappropriate descriptions of his behavior whenever I was in the same room with her. It didn't work though because he yelled less than her and sometimes gave me money for food. Now I feel a mix of sadness and disgust for each of them equally, so I guess it wasn't really an effective tactic.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 17:19

hawowanlawow: Jul 27, 2009

Panfilo posted:

This thread especially makes me wonder about those divorces where one parent claims the ex poisoned their kids opinion of them. I mean for the sake of discussion, let's take the statement at face value. How likely is it one parent can manipulate a child into hating a parent all things being neutral?

I remember one day finding a photo of a strange woman when looking for my stepdads tools for a project. I asked him about her, and he said she was his daughter which came as a shock as he had NEVER mentioned her in the ten years he lived with us. I know He had 3 kids from one former marriage and was previously married before that, but I didn't know he had a third divorce nor had a another daughter. I asked why we never met or heard from her and he said that when she was little her mom divorced him and 'poisoned her opinion of him' leading to the daughter going full no contact. Now maybe he was just a private guy when it came to family matters,i don't know. He had gotten full custody of his 3 known kids as well and was very involved with them so he didn't necessarily strike me as a deadbeat dad but who knows.

Just made me suspicious how this never got brought up and explained away with "her mom raised her to hate me and she never wanted anything to do with me" without further mention. I've had some older (male) Co workers with similar claims, "my ex wife brainwashed my kid into hating me" and I find it suspicious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkuWrmxN7hg

# ? Nov 7, 2020 17:19

Sherry Bahm: Jul 30, 2003; filled with dolphins

Lieutenant Dan posted:

thinks I have tattoos and am gay/trans SPECIFICALLY TO SPITE HER.

At this point in my life I just say, "yes, that's exactly why I do it," and that I'll keep doing it so long as they keep complaining about it.

quote:

She used to yell and punish me if I got too close to my dad cause it's "not fair that I like him more".

Liking him more sounds perfectly fair to me.

quote:

What the hell. How am I gonna invite my dad into my life without this screaming racist harpy woman telling me everyone hates me and is lying and all my personal choices aren't actually choices and my life, career, future wife, physical appearance, and lifestyle are all 100% to spite her. For 30 years.

You could just invite your dad and not your mom if you think you can deal with the fallout. It's your wedding. Only people you want there should be there. No exceptions.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 17:32

boar guy: Jan 25, 2007

Error 404 posted:

Holy gently caress.

I've been following this thread and having sympathy pains and sensible chuckles at how like all the others my parents are (no contact with mom since age 15, no contact with dad, step-mom, and sister for about 6 years now).

But this quoted bit right here, holy gently caress. I'm exactly like this and have never found a way to explain it that wasn't immediately brushed aside by friends, (ex) partners, etc.

i had a manager once tell me i was stealing joy from people by not telling them when my birthday is :pwn:

# ? Nov 7, 2020 19:21

Eshettar: May 9, 2013; *whispers*

_{yospos, bithc}

quote:

Parents [40s] treated me [21F] very badly and I cut them off. Now they want a new beginning.

Sorry if this is long.

I have a non-identical twin sister. The two of us couldn't be any more different. She is lucky enough to be very beautiful and tall and very good looking. She has always ticked every box on her looks. I wasn't so lucky. I wasn't on the beautiful side and was shorter (right now I'm 5-1, she's 5-8). She was also better at making friends and being sociable while I was always her awkward sister (now I know I'm on the autism spectrum but was only diagnosed two years ago, parents never bothered with that).

Now none of these make my parents horrible. What makes them horrible is the way the treated me and my sister. They always treated her like she is an angel and treated me like I'm a loser. This goes back as early as we were 3-4 years old. For each 20 picture that they have of her childhood, they have maybe 2-3 of mine. Literally they have over 10 times as many pictures of her, and most of mine are of both of us. She would always get a lot of attention from everyone and I got none. Parent spent much more money on her too. Say if they wanted to spend $100 on clothes, $80 goes to her and $20 to me. Their reasoning has always been that she's more beautiful and it's worth spending more on her as she's gets a lot more attention while nobody looks at me anyway so why bother with better clothes, they have literally told me that many times. I was in a sports team, they never once came to see me playing while they go see my sister cheerleading every week. Extend this to everything and you know the story of my life.

I hated every second of my childhood. I hated my sister (yes I know none of this was actually her fault, I worked on myself with a therapist so I no longer feel any hate/blame towards her). Since I was 15 I was counting the days until I become 18 and can leave and never come back and that's what I did (that's the age which you can leave home without parent consent where we live). I left home the day after my 18th birthday. The night before parents threw a birthday party for us (well, for her). Their gift for her was a $1000 gift card from a luxury designer brand, for me a $100 gift card for a bookstore, arguing that this $100 gives me the same level of ability to buy the things I like (books) as that $1000 would to her (expensive clothes). OK. Their logic. They knew I was thinking of leaving but had no idea I wanted out ASAP. I left that day. They asked me to stay and allow them to help out but I was like "I've had enough of you, leave me alone".

I never made any contact with them after that. As soon as I was able to I moved to another city (to get even as further away as I hated that city too). They called/texted me for a while for a while but I never answered or replied and changed my number eventually. I had also removed them from all my social media. I set so that if they sent me any emails it would automatically get deleted and a reply "automatically deleted, do not waste your time" to be sent. That's the current status of things on my side.

Two days ago my dad sent me a message on Facebook. My initial instinct was to delete it but I opened it and started reading. This was the first message in months from them. He explained that he understands that they were not good parents and they did a lot of wrong but maybe we can start over. He asked if I can come over for dinner at some point so all of us can get to know "the new" each other better. I haven't responded.

I don't know if I should give them another chance or just delete this message and don't look back.

tl;dr: Parents treated me much worse than my twin sister because she was/is more beautiful. I left right after my 18th birthday and ceased all contacts. Now they want a new beginning after 3 years.

quote:

[Update] Parents [40s] treated me [21F] very badly and I cut them off. Now they want a new beginning.

Thanks for your comments and suggestions there. They were super helpful and helped me see things a lot more clearly. Love you all.

This is a big big update and something quite shocking. I've got to go back to my therapist.

Before I get to it, a lot of you asked about my relationship with my sister. Well. There's no relationship really. I spent all of my childhood hating her and never really had a nice relationship with her. She was not like my parents but they had spoiled the hell out of her and she sort of always saw herself as the better one of the two of us. Not surprised there and right now I don't even blame her for that. On the day that I was leaving I gave her a hug and told her that maybe if we had different parents we could have really been sisters but it's not how it turned out in this life but maybe we can make up for it later ourselves. I told her that if she wants to talk to me about this she can call me and we can meet up. She never called me.

As it appeared from the last post, I went to talk to my therapist about this and she suggested that I can initiate some conversation and see how it goes. Based on her assessment she was happy if I wanted to go and see them I just need to understand that there's no obligation to go or stay. Good.

I replied to my father's message with this:

Hi dad

For us to ever have a chance of seriously starting over, you owe me an answer. Why?

I expect an honest answer. No "why what?", no "come and let's talk in person" or anything of that sort, just give it to me straight, believe me I can handle reading it if you could handle doing it. If you're not willing to give me that then I'm not willing to start over.

He came back to me the next day with a long message, explaining "why". Let's get right to it:

He told me that him and my mom wanted a child, and only one child as they didn't have the resources and energy of having more than one. They realized that we're twins, that screwed up everything and actually made them sad rather than happy.

They decided to give one of us up for adoption. They looked around and even found a couple. In case you wondered, I was the one they decided to give away because I was smaller and my eyes weren't blue (yeah, that's how you decide which one of your kids to keep). They arranged everything, even took me to the them but that couple bailed out before signing the papers, when they saw me and my sister. Their conscience couldn't handle separating twin sisters like this. After this they looked for some couples and nobody seemed willing to adopt one of twin sisters. They entertained the idea of putting me into foster care but they couldn't live with themselves if they did.

I think that says a lot. Stranger couples, who so badly wanted to adopt a child, couldn't be heartless enough to separate twin sisters but their loving parents wanted to do it. It's beyond me.

So they had to raise me themselves and they didn't enjoy it at all. In their minds the fact that they didn't put me into foster care was a favor in itself, more than what I apparently deserved and that's why they never cared to do more for me. Their full time and resources belonged to my sister and the small part of it that got to me, they saw it as me taking what's my sister's away. That's how they saw me. No wonder my childhood turned out the way it did.

He said that deep inside they always knew what they were doing was wrong but they could never step up and do the right thing during this 18 years. Why not? They thought that changing the dynamic would negatively affect my sister as she's now used to being offered more time and resources and I'm used to not getting it, so making it more equal would be a luxury for me and a pain for her. They thought that's not fair for my sister to be in pain for the sake of my luxury. Again, their logic. I don't even know what to say to that.

Ever since I left, mom and dad are having trouble. My sister is off to college and they're alone now with all the time in the world to think about what they did. They've been to marriage counselling and according to him that has helped them see everything clearly now and see how cruel they were to me.

He says they want to start over and make up for all of it if I'm prepared to allow them.

This is quite shocking for me. This explains a lot about why my childhood turned out the way it did. I'm going to be honest. I wished they had given me away for adoption. I really really do. I could have been with adoptive parents who really wanted me rather than with biological parents who never did.

I still don't believe that they have changed though, this can be the result of my sister (their golden child) being away and not spending as much time with them and them trying to replace her with me. I don't want to do that at all but I don't know. I've got to talk to my therapist.

Please give me your opinions again. You guys were so useful to me last time. Your help means a lot.

tl;dr: Dad opened up about how they wanted to put me for adoption and they couldn't find a couple to agree to separate twin sisters. That turned out to how they decided to treat me during my childhood. They say they're getting counselling and see the wrong in them and want to make up for it now.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 20:24

number 1 snake fan: Jul 16, 2018

Lieutenant Dan posted:

I had a mom who thinks every single thing I do is a personal attack on her, she would call me a slut if I had guy friends, used to throw trash at me when my room wasn't clean, told me a lot of people who were my friend only wanted to gently caress me, and, as an adult, thinks I have tattoos and am gay/trans SPECIFICALLY TO SPITE HER. I'm almost 30, she's 100% going to show up to my wedding and call me a woman and make fun of my wife and cause a huge fuss. The worst part is, my dad is the sweetest kindest man, and wasn't around a lot when I was a kid, but he's still married to her, and I can't talk to him without her freaking out. She used to yell and punish me if I got too close to my dad cause it's "not fair that I like him more". When I was like, 6.

Are you me???? Bc goddamn this is like looking into a mirror :glomp:

# ? Nov 7, 2020 20:47

mllaneza: Apr 28, 2007; Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

Eshettar posted:

I was expecting the golden child to need a kidney, but this is somehow far worse. That poor woman.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 20:51

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 20:13

Sherry Bahm: Jul 30, 2003; filled with dolphins

mllaneza posted:

I was expecting the golden child to need a kidney, but this is somehow far worse. That poor woman.

They still might.

Would not be the first time an estranged family said all the right things to draw someone back in only to drop, "since we're family again, we need you do do X for us, y'know as a FAMILY" on them.

# ? Nov 7, 2020 21:10

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > Rejected Parents: if you can't figure it out you don't deserve a blog

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