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Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.

even ignoring the Sister Hat incident as everyone should, the Sisters of Battle was basically because A: Sexy combat nuns and B: they're tired of people asking to play female Space Marines and went 'here, happy now?'

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CroatianAlzheimers
Jun 15, 2009

I can't remember why I'm mad at you...


Robindaybird posted:

even ignoring the Sister Hat incident as everyone should...

Jesus, do I even want to know?

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Robindaybird posted:

and B: they're tired of people asking to play female Space Marines and went 'here, happy now?'

No, because everything about the Sisters is "they're ALMOST as good as Space Marines!" and their only big character's gimmick is that she comes back after she dies - so, naturally, she's been killed by almost every big name in the loving setting to establish their credentials because hey she comes back.

Hunt11
Jul 24, 2013

Grimey Drawer

CroatianAlzheimers posted:

Jesus, do I even want to know?

It isn't as hosed up as the breeding factory or whatever you call it but it was still extremely stupid, offensive, and makes no sense compared to everything else in the setting regarding the Grey Knights.

Tibalt
May 14, 2017

What, drawn, and talk of peace! I hate the word, As I hate hell, all Montagues, and thee

CroatianAlzheimers posted:

Jesus, do I even want to know?
You know that trope by the blood of virgins being used to summon/control demons?

Well, the Grey Knights, who are SUPER space marines who only fight demons and Chaos, needed a whole bunch of virgin blood, so they're murdered a bunch of Sisters of Battle, who are Space Marines except not as good because they're all nuns. Before this incident, the Grey Knights were kinda the closest thing to Good Guys in the Imperium and were close allies to the Sisters. I remember all of this having a real 'Tough Men Making Tough Choices' layer to it as well.

mellonbread
Dec 20, 2017
MARIA IN THREE PARTS - Part 3: Adepts, Avatars and Pregens


Welcome back to Maria in Three Parts. In this update, we’ll meet our three pregenerated characters, and learn about their postmodern magickal abilities.

The layout here is bad. The descriptive text with the pregens’ backstory and roleplaying tips is in the middle of the book, while the character sheets are at the end. This would have been easy to fix, too. The character backstory could have gone on the back of the pregen sheets at the end of the book. It would work out to the same total number of pages, and allowed the sheets to simply be torn out and handed to the players. As it stands, the GM has to photocopy separate sections of the book and collate them in order to give the players all the info they need.

The magic schools are handled a little better. Each of them gets a detailed description in the middle of the book, but the character sheets also have summaries for how all the abilities and mechanics work.

I’ll go over each of the four characters, their backstory, and their magic school.

VINCE KIRKLAND
Vince Kirkland grew up in a house of methheads and alcoholics, and learned to take care of his siblings at an early age when his indifferent mother and string of abusive stepfathers wouldn’t. When his family finally imploded, he was effectively raised by Detective Renee Jefferson, an NPC we’ll meet later when the scenario proper begins. Vince is big, quiet, and violently protective of the other occultists in the Cabal (which is what Unknown Armies calls a group of player characters).

Let’s take a look at Vince’s character sheet.



You can see his passions in the top right. He can manipulate die rolls that relate to those.

All the pregens have two relationships filled in. One is to Detective Jefferson, the other is to another pregenerated character.

Vince can resist low level shocks to Helplessness, Self and Violence, but has minimal experience with the Unnatural - which makes him quite perceptive, but also naive about the true workings of the universe.



His non-magickal identity is “Protective Big Brother”. That gives him a 55% chance to Dodge and Struggle (evade and deal damage) and to heal notches on other characters’ stress gauges.

His magickal identity is The Guide. This is an Avatar who shows people the way. They do not walk the path themselves - they aren’t leaders. Coaches, cartographers and cabbies are examples of Guides. Mechanically, he’s got a 55% chance to use the listed abilities - which let him give people hints about where to go and what to do, and lets other players “store” the results of a D100 roll and use them later, kind of like a Divination Wizard from 5E. The Avatar identity also gives him the ability to cast rituals, meaning if he finds a prewritten spell he’s got a chance to use it.

Oh and because his Avatar identity is his obsession, he can flip the die result any time he rolls it.

(I think the percentage values of his identities are set incorrectly. They’re supposed to sum to 120 for a starting character, but they only sum to 110. He should have 60 and 60, not 55 and 55).

JADA PARKER
Jada Parker was a high school graduate from a forgettable Oklahoma town who fell in love with pest control. It’s her hobby, her job and her life - she has trouble talking about things that aren’t her endless war on the unseen dangers that sneak into people’s homes. She was introduced to the occult underground after she fell in love with a katharoturge - a witch obsessed with cleanliness. She is full of energy, but directs every conversation toward subjects she is knowledgeable about.

Here’s the top half of Jada’s character sheet.



The first thing I notice here is that the mage she’s supposed to be in love with isn’t listed as her favorite - or anywhere else in the relationships track. Instead, she’s got Greg as her protege - something not listed anywhere in her backstory. I’m starting to wonder if parts of the book got edited without corresponding changes elsewhere, or if they were done by different people.

Whatever. Jada is hardened against Unnatural and Violence, less against Helplessness and Isolation. That makes her athletic and good at leveraging her status, worse at dodging and running from (or after) things.



Fortunately, her non magickal identity makes up some of the difference. “Pest Exterminator” lets her Notice and Pursue things at 60%, and lets her Coerce Helplessness. I think this section could have used a little descriptive text on how an exterminator exploits feelings of helplessness to coerce people. Convince them they’re covered in bugs?

Jada’s magickal identity is The Warrior. The Warrior is someone who fights against something ALL THE TIME. The text gives examples - a drug warrior fights against all drugs, a literacy warrior fights against illiteracy - a warrior can declare war on basically anything. Jada’s war is a war on pests, both literal and figurative. As long as she’s fighting for this cause, she can ignore stress tests and buff other players’ chance of success. But if she ever declines to eradicate pests, she loses her push and her avatar abilities go away.

GREG O’NIEL
After Greg O’Niel’s parents were killed by a drunk driver, he was raised in part by his uncle, but mostly by the TV. His great love of movies led him to pursue film studies, but his obsessive hatred of all but the purest kino prevented him from achieving success as a mainstream reviewer. He attained a substantial following with a Youtube show, and leveraged his position to demand bribes from smaller studios in exchange for favorable coverage. This low level grift eventually put him in contact with the occult underworld, where he discovered his powers as a budding cinemancer. He is nice to people he wants to impress, rude to waitstaff and retail workers.

What a loveable rascal. Let’s get a look at his sheet.



Unlike our last two characters, Greg is not hardened to Violence in the slightest. That makes him great at connecting with other people and dogshit in a hand to hand fight. He can, however, resist mid level shocks to Self and Isolation. He considers Detective Jefferson his protege (meaning he believes he has a lot to teach her) and Vince his guru. I can’t tell if this is a mistake or a deliberate joke from the author - the Guru is supposed to be the character you turn to for esoteric knowledge, and Vince has the lowest possible rating in Secrets. Possibly Greg assumes Vince’s stoicism is cover for a deep reservoir of gnostic wisdom.



Greg’s mundane identity is “Crooked Film Critic”. He can roll it at 50% in place of the Secrecy and Status abilities, and to defend from Unnatural shocks.

Greg’s Adept school is Cinemancy. Cinemancers exploit patterns they’ve trained themselves to recognize through obsessive consumption of visual media. By embodying those cliches (or convincing others to do the same), they gain charges of magick power. They can then spend these charges to alter reality. Greg can spend his charges to:
  • Convince people (even experts) he’s a member of a profession by dressing up as one
  • Automatically make stuff happen any time someone says it will never happen
  • Knock someone unconscious by covering their mouth with a white rag and pretending it’s chloroform
Cinemancers lose their push if they ever fail to complete a movie reference. If someone says the first part of a call and response, they have to complete it. If there’s something obvious and cliche that should happen in a given situation, they have to ensure it does.

Overall, this guy would fit right in on the Forums.

ELLEN KALOUDIS
An unemployed Gulf War veteran who turned to alcoholism after losing her leg to an Iraqi land mine, Ellen Kaloudis was initiated into the explosive adept school of fulminaturgy by her AA sponsor. Unfortunately for her, the totemic power of the gun wasn’t enough to get her old job as an EMT back, which she lost after almost killing a man in a drunken haze. She’s a tough, leathery woman who’s usually miserable but finds strange joy in random and unexpected things.

Last but not least, here’s Ellen’s sheet.



Ellen has some protection against Isolation and Violence, but little against Self. This makes her alright at fighting, deeply knowledgeable in most generic circumstances, and almost incapable of lying.

Note, again, she doesn’t have the NPC who taught her fulminomancy as her guru in the relationships box.



Ellen has two mundane identities, with the points split between them. I think this makes her mechanically the weakest character of the four, unless the player is aggressive about using her passions to manipulate their die results (which I don’t think a new player is going to be). “Gulf War Hospital Corpsman” gives her a 40% rating in Struggle, lets her heal HP damage, and Provides Firearms Attacks, letting her shoot people. She’s also got 20% in Recovering Alcoholic, which subs for Secrecy and lets her protect Helplessness and Self. Having an identity at 20% is almost useless for all these things, since 20% is the minimum rating of the things it’s supposed to sub for. You can improve the identity’s numeric rating by rolling it and failing, but that occurs at the end of the session, and this is a quick start that I doubt will take more than one game. It’s thematically kind of cool to have a “recovering alcoholic” number that goes up as you struggle, but not mechanically a good fit for a oneshot.

Ellen’s magickal identity is Fulminaturgy - the way of the gun. It’s not a school of combat magic, though some of their higher level abilities do let them deal damage (albeit in a less efficient manner than just shooting someone). Fulminaturges draw their power from the totemic power of the gun, rather than actually using it. They gain charges from carrying a weapon, either concealed or open, and lose their powers if they are ever disarmed or unarmed. Ellen can spend her charges to
  • Appear more important in a crowd, and potentially gain bonuses to subsequent die rolls
  • Force anyone who belittles, dismisses or ignores her to test stress vs Helplessness
  • Ignore the consequences of failed stress tests by putting a hand on her weapon
These also seem kind of weak, especially compared to the other characters. The Warrior gets to ignore stress tests and grant numeric bonuses to rolls for free, without the need to generate or spend charges.

It’s a shame that Ellen sucks mechanically, she has a cool backstory and concept. I think pregenerated characters in introductory or convention play material should err on the side of powerful and competent. There’s nothing that turns a new player off a system faster than being handed a character who “can’t do anything”. Or maybe I’m overreacting here.

ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS ON MAGICK
Cinemancers and Fulminaturges both have additional spells that aren’t listed on their sheets, but are listed in the quick start’s description of their Adept schools. These abilities require “Significant” charges (an earlier version of this post called them "Major, which isn't the same thing) which take longer to generate than the minor charges that fuel their other spells.
  • Fulminaturges get a spell that grants their firearms attacks immunity to magical damage resistance, letting them exorcise demons or ghosts by shooting them. They also get a spell that fires a psychic bullet, which ignores armor and leaves no physical wounds, but can traumatize or straight up kill a target with a single shot.
  • Cinemancers get to ignore damage from any non-lethal wound by coming up with an amusing quip after the injury occurs. They can instantly transport a person to their location by saying something insulting about them, then saying “he’s right behind me, isn’t he?”
I assume these aren’t on the character sheets because they take significant charges. Do the player characters have significant charges? I don’t know, because the character sheets don’t say how many charges they start with, either significant or minor. Which is kind of important, given the scenario. It’s the type of adventure where the characters are called to start investigating immediately because time is of the essence. They don’t have hours to spare walking around and building up magic power.

OVERALL THOUGHTS ON CHARACTERS
The relationships on the sheets don’t match the description given in the character backstories at all. This is forgivable if relationships aren’t supposed to be a big part of the quick start, but doesn’t do a good job of teaching how the mechanic is supposed to work.

As mentioned before, the mundane identities don’t have any text for the “of course I can” section. That’s a serious omission for a new player who doesn’t know how identities work, and one that wouldn’t have been hard for the authors to fix.

All four of the characters have interesting concepts and fun personalities. The roleplaying tips aren’t always relevant for the situations the characters will end up in during the quick start adventure, but they have enough flavor to tell you how you’re supposed to act. One thing I didn’t notice until putting this review together: the two avatars get largely positive portrayals, while the two adepts get negative ones.

That’s it for this post. Join us next time, when we begin the adventure itself.


Bieeanshee posted:

Fun fact: Combat in UA is unpleasant. Gun combat, especially so. That's not to say it's mechanically bad, but it hurts. A lot.

Hence why the combat section of the rulebook starts with 'Six Ways to Stop a Fight'.
I don’t trust any book (or any GM, for that matter) who tells me I should avoid combat. Not because I disagree, but because I know at some point I’ll be forced into a mandatory shootout, regardless of whether the rules say it’s a good idea. I do think Unknown Armies is better about this than Call of Cthulhu or Delta Green, because it explicitly systemizes avoiding a fight through other means.

The extreme lethality of the combat is a bit at-odds with how overly intricate the character creation system is. I suspect this is a holdover from the older generation of D100 games that Unknown Armies descends from.

By popular demand posted:

Re: UA
Charger is also a term for a full warhorse while a Pony is kinda a show/pet breed.
Nice

Xiahou Dun posted:

Because I'm a monster, I made a bot to Markov model these probabilities and talked to an actual mathematician about it (his name is "Dad"), and the short version is you're totally underselling it. 20% is the increase if you have a 10 in a stat and then it skyrockets until you get way high up. Flip-flopping the roll is incredibly strong from the stand-point of the math. Like it basically doubles every time you go up a ten's digit.
It gets better, because I missed an important detail. Not only can you flip your dice once per session using your Passions, you can also reroll dice if it relates to your Passion, and you’re not limited to doing it once per session.

mellonbread fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Nov 11, 2020

By popular demand
Jul 17, 2007

IT *BZZT* WASP ME--
IT WASP ME ALL *BZZT* ALONG!


Re: 40k

In my opinion Sisters are way better for role-playing options than any space marine for the simple fact that they are not modified children indoctrinated and raised to become obedient weapons of the emperor.
They are socially involved people who actually have a history of shaking things up if the leadership of the Imperium gets corrupt.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


mellonbread posted:

MARIA IN THREE PARTS - Part 3: Adepts, Avatars and Pregens

I think you confused Significant Charges with Major charges here when talking about the stronger Adept spells. Significant Charges are used for the stronger formula spells while Major Charges are the super hard to get ones that only ever have broad effects suggested because they're so hard to get.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



Omnicrom posted:

I think you confused Significant Charges with Major charges here when talking about the stronger Adept spells. Significant Charges are used for the stronger formula spells while Major Charges are the super hard to get ones that only ever have broad effects suggested because they're so hard to get.

UA really should have gone with “Medium”instead of “Significant;” it’s too easy to confuse with “Major.”

Bieeanshee
Aug 21, 2000

Not keen on keening.


Grimey Drawer
I'd be really surprised if any of those pregens had a Major charge. Those can be extremely difficult to get your hands on, to the point of the search for one being a potential campaign focus, and the casting of a Major spell potentially editing reality in a significant way.

I can't remember if it's stated outright anywhere, but the metaplot reset referenced at times in the core books could have been a particularly major Major effect.

mellonbread
Dec 20, 2017

Omnicrom posted:

I think you confused Significant Charges with Major charges here when talking about the stronger Adept spells. Significant Charges are used for the stronger formula spells while Major Charges are the super hard to get ones that only ever have broad effects suggested because they're so hard to get.
You're right, they're Significant. I don't think the book mentions Major charges at all.

According to the descriptions in the book, a Significant charge takes minimum 5 hours for a Cinemancer to generate, and 10 hours for a Fulminaturge. Both of which are outside the timeframe of the scenario, which starts killing off important NPCs offscreen if you dawdle.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017

Tibalt posted:

You know that trope by the blood of virgins being used to summon/control demons?

Well, the Grey Knights, who are SUPER space marines who only fight demons and Chaos, needed a whole bunch of virgin blood, so they're murdered a bunch of Sisters of Battle, who are Space Marines except not as good because they're all nuns. Before this incident, the Grey Knights were kinda the closest thing to Good Guys in the Imperium and were close allies to the Sisters. I remember all of this having a real 'Tough Men Making Tough Choices' layer to it as well.

I think somebody already said the line Matt Ward is the greatest traitor since Horus.

Everyone
Sep 6, 2019

by sebmojo

CroatianAlzheimers posted:

Hell, I might. You guys need a combat engineer?

This is not really a "What does the party need?" game. The "party" is potentially dozens of characters operating out of several ships and units.

A combat engineer would be cool. A regular engineer would be cool. This is very much a "play whatever you feel like and then write your character in" game.

The main "restrictions" are No Force Crap and you enter the game as a private - or the closest equivalent to that rank (Airman for Starfighter Pilot; Crewman for somebody in the Navy on a Capital Ship). Once you complete one Official RPG you get a promotion to the next rank up to reflect that you've actively participated instead of just lurking. Though lurking is completely fine as well. We're a pretty loose bunch.

In terms of posting in a scenario there's limited God-modding allowed. By that if your character is speaking with or otherwise "in a scene" with others you can post their dialogue and actions as long is they aren't too far out of character or otherwise unlikely. Your character shooting down a TIE-Fighter works. Your character single-highhandedly taking down an Imperial Star Destroyer in a TIE Fighter (and surviving) is much less so. Like that.

Beyond that the only other thing might be that we're not huge fans of harsh language because in the past we've had minors be part of the group.

Oh, and the site is completely free of charge, as well.

That Old Tree
Jun 24, 2012

nah


Please excuse the spam~

:siren: :tfrxmas: :siren:

TG Secret Santa is Back Again

Leraika
Jun 14, 2015

Luckily, I *did* save your old avatar. Fucked around and found out indeed.
I like jedi but I don't like a lot of stuff surrounding jedi. :sigh:

Servetus
Apr 1, 2010
I like the some of the trappings of the Jedi: Weird science fantasy melee weapons, a fun space religion that seems open to a lot of different interpretations and arguments, some funky space opera hairstyles.

What I don't like is that all that stuff is only open to people who get the lucky force powers, and is really disconnected from the reality of everyone else in the setting. If you have the powers then your social role and destiny are laid out to you and if you don't then it's all beyond your ken, and you are just the rube who will never understand what's going on. At least in Fading Suns or Dune everyone is getting in sword or knife duels, not just the people with mystic powers.

Hostile V
May 31, 2013

Solving all of life's problems through enhanced casting of Occam's Razor. Reward yourself with an imaginary chalice.

Also worth noting is that the Fulminaturge loses their magickal fuel if they ever shoot their gun. The gun is a totem of control, power and deterrence. Much in the same way Mutually-Assured Destruction had a bunch of people holding nukes to stop people from using nukes and keep the peace, the presence of the gun is meant to enforce the will of the wielder. Actually using your gun means that it has failed at its job as a totem and is now just a weapon rather than an icon. You're no longer someone who stands apart from the rabble and has a measure of power and control, now you're just some violent jerk with a gun.

Granted if it's gotten to the point where the Fulminaturge has had to shoot their gun, in for a penny in for a pound, keep shooting because you can't deplete what you no longer have fuel for.

mellonbread
Dec 20, 2017

Hostile V posted:

Also worth noting is that the Fulminaturge loses their magickal fuel if they ever shoot their gun. The gun is a totem of control, power and deterrence. Much in the same way Mutually-Assured Destruction had a bunch of people holding nukes to stop people from using nukes and keep the peace, the presence of the gun is meant to enforce the will of the wielder. Actually using your gun means that it has failed at its job as a totem and is now just a weapon rather than an icon. You're no longer someone who stands apart from the rabble and has a measure of power and control, now you're just some violent jerk with a gun.

Granted if it's gotten to the point where the Fulminaturge has had to shoot their gun, in for a penny in for a pound, keep shooting because you can't deplete what you no longer have fuel for.

The text in the quick start is as follows:

Maria in Three Parts, Page 14 posted:

Taboo: There are two main strains of Fulminaturgy, and their philosophical divisions are reflected in their taboos. The faction Ellen Kaloudis, the fulminaturge in this book, belongs to regards guns as the means by which she offsets encroachment by over-reaching authority. She loses her charges if she is ever disarmed. Any time she leaves her house or vehicle without some form of firearm, her charges dissipate. She also loses her power if anyone else takes her totem gun.
Is it possible that "lose your power if you fire your gun" is from the other school of Fulminaturgy? I don't have either of the corebooks at hand at the moment.

Everyone
Sep 6, 2019

by sebmojo

Leraika posted:

I like jedi but I don't like a lot of stuff surrounding jedi. :sigh:

I feel the same way about Mutants in the Marvel Universe.

I get it. Being a mutant is good way to explore racism and discrimination in a somewhat fantastical way.

However, there really is a difference between mutants and people of other races/sexes/etc.

Ralph Ellison wrote The Invisible Man about the Black experience. In the past as a pejorative gay men have been referred to as "flaming" homosexuals.

However, Black people can't actually fade from the visible spectrum of light and gay people can't actually set other people on fire with the power of their minds no matter how gay they happen to be.

There is a qualitative difference between differences in race and sexual orientation and people actually having powers due to their genetic coding.

There is no rational reason for anyone to be afraid of someone because they're black or gay or trans.

There is considerable rational reason to be afraid of (or at least concerned by) someone who can read your mind or burn your bones to ash to teleport you to the loving Moon sans a space suit.

Plus there's no reason a mutant can't drive or shoot or hack a computer as well as any human can. And they have superpowers.

Similarly Han Solo could teach Luke how to shoot the quad-lasers on the Falcon. Luke could not teach Han how to lift rocks with his mind.

From a gaming perspective a Jedi (or other Force user) can potentially do anything a regular skilled character can do plus they get superpowers.

So there's a sense of unfairness about the Jedi that is rarely if ever truly mitigated by the Jedi code or other things in a game.

Bieeanshee
Aug 21, 2000

Not keen on keening.


Grimey Drawer

mellonbread posted:

The text in the quick start is as follows:
Is it possible that "lose your power if you fire your gun" is from the other school of Fulminaturgy? I don't have either of the corebooks at hand at the moment.

It is:

quote:

One strain, which sees firearms as fundamental tools for the
enforcement of civilization, loses their charges if they ever
shoot a human being with any gun. Bows and arrows are OK,
rocket launchers are not

Speaking as someone who happens to be a gay trans woman? I loving hate Marvel mutants, probably in part because their soap operatic bullshit is an uncanny reminder of bad discourse in the queer community.

Bieeanshee fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Nov 11, 2020

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


Hostile V posted:

Also worth noting is that the Fulminaturge loses their magickal fuel if they ever shoot their gun. The gun is a totem of control, power and deterrence. Much in the same way Mutually-Assured Destruction had a bunch of people holding nukes to stop people from using nukes and keep the peace, the presence of the gun is meant to enforce the will of the wielder. Actually using your gun means that it has failed at its job as a totem and is now just a weapon rather than an icon.

Granted if it's gotten to the point where the Fulminaturge has had to shoot their gun, in for a penny in for a pound, keep shooting.

It looks like based on the character sheet that Ellen is the less interesting alternate version of the Fulminaturge who can shoot people all day because their taboo is about constantly being armed.

And I do consider this version of the Fulminaturge less interesting, there's something deliciously Unknown Armies about the baseline version of someone hyper obsessed with guns who utterly abhors the thought of shooting another human with one (This type of Fulminaturge can fire their gun, they just can't shoot a human). If that doesn't kind of say it all about what sort of thinking makes a person become an Adept I don't know what does.

Meanwhile, the nut job who constantly goes around with a gun and does everything in their power to remain armed at all times is almost pathetically stock and frustratingly ordinary in 2020 America. I always read the alternate version of the Fulminaturge as something created specifically as a compromise because the central paradox of the school is less apparent in the always armed version. Still, I suppose if this is a one-shot that version of the Fulminaturge probably does work better.

Hostile V
May 31, 2013

Solving all of life's problems through enhanced casting of Occam's Razor. Reward yourself with an imaginary chalice.

mellonbread posted:

The text in the quick start is as follows:
Is it possible that "lose your power if you fire your gun" is from the other school of Fulminaturgy? I don't have either of the corebooks at hand at the moment.
Ah, yeah, that's right, it's the other school. The Fulminaturge who views the gun as a fundamental tool of the enforcement of civilization has the taboo of "never shoot anyone", the one who views a gun as the key means by which one is able to push back against predatory overreach and assert individuality can't be disarmed or leave home without their gun. Both lose charges if someone else take their totem gun.

e: the "never actually shoot anyone" school is the better school by far for roleplaying, I agree.

oriongates
Mar 14, 2013

Validate Me!


I also note the distinction between "fire a gun" and "shoot a human being". Warning shots, or killing someone's dog, doesn't count I guess.

I wonder about unintentional misses.

Leraika
Jun 14, 2015

Luckily, I *did* save your old avatar. Fucked around and found out indeed.

uh dude I was just talking about how I like weird magic space hermits with special swords and not their plot importance

Everyone
Sep 6, 2019

by sebmojo

Bieeanshee posted:

Speaking as someone who happens to be a gay trans woman? I loving hate Marvel mutants, probably in part because their soap operatic bullshit is an uncanny reminder of bad discourse in the queer community.

I remember that in one game I played a mutant thief-type and I had him swipe one of Forge's "Mutant Nullifiers" and walk around with it, kind of spinning it and freaking out all the other PCs and NPCs. At the end he gave it back and said "That nervousness you guys have been feeling all day? That's what norms feel around you. All the time."

Nobody should fear you for being who you are - a gay trans woman. However, I'll bet both of us would get a little spooked if some dude walked into where we were sporting a lit flamethrower.

oriongates posted:

I also note the distinction between "fire a gun" and "shoot a human being". Warning shots, or killing someone's dog, doesn't count I guess.

I wonder about unintentional misses.

I think unintentional misses should count. Figure with magic (excuse me, "Magick") intention is everything.

That said, it's "shoot a human being." So presumably werewolves, vampires, death-slimes or whatever other weird, supernatural thingies are in this don't count and you can blast the poo poo out of them as much as you want. Not that it'll necessarily do any good.

Leraika posted:

uh dude I was just talking about how I like weird magic space hermits with special swords and not their plot importance

That's fine. I like magic space hermits with laser swords, too. It's all the crap that comes with them that's the problem. Just like you said.

Everyone fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Nov 11, 2020

Epicurius
Apr 10, 2010
College Slice

Tibalt posted:

Well, the Grey Knights, who are SUPER space marines who only fight demons and Chaos, needed a whole bunch of virgin blood. . .

So, weird question, maybe, but given that the Grey Knights needed virgin blood and that Space Marines are all, well, impotent and without sexual desire (and also rapidly recover from injury and bloodloss), then you'd think they wouldn't need the Sisters of Battle for that....

oriongates
Mar 14, 2013

Validate Me!


Obvious the only important virgins are female ones. Everyone knows that. It's basic sexist occultism 101.

IshmaelZarkov
Jun 20, 2013

Jedi gaming chat:

The only time I ran a Star Wars game (using the Inquisitor skirmish game from GW qhich worked shockingly well) I allowed one person to play a Jedi, and only because of something they said. "A Jedi has robes, mind control powers, and a laser sword, a great Jedi only needs the robes" and they stuck to that the whole game. Had a lightsaber, never got into a fight. Had a ton of force powers, only ever used them to heal the injured.

Briliant game. Shame some key players moved overseas/became unbearable chuds.

Big Mad Drongo
Nov 10, 2006

Everyone posted:

I remember that in one game I played a mutant thief-type and I had him swipe one of Forge's "Mutant Nullifiers" and walk around with it, kind of spinning it and freaking out all the other PCs and NPCs. At the end he gave it back and said "That nervousness you guys have been feeling all day? That's what norms feel around you. All the time."

Nobody should fear you for being who you are - a gay trans woman. However, I'll bet both of us would get a little spooked if some dude walked into where we were sporting a lit flamethrower.


I think unintentional misses should count. Figure with magic (excuse me, "Magick") intention is everything.

That said, it's "shoot a human being." So presumably werewolves, vampires, death-slimes or whatever other weird, supernatural thingies are in this don't count and you can blast the poo poo out of them as much as you want. Not that it'll necessarily do any good.

IIRC werewolves in UA are animals possessed by human souls, so I would love hate to be at the table where that gets rules lawyered.

Hunt11
Jul 24, 2013

Grimey Drawer

Epicurius posted:

So, weird question, maybe, but given that the Grey Knights needed virgin blood and that Space Marines are all, well, impotent and without sexual desire (and also rapidly recover from injury and bloodloss), then you'd think they wouldn't need the Sisters of Battle for that....

It is almost as though everything involved with this incident is extremely stupid.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


Big Mad Drongo posted:

IIRC werewolves in UA are animals possessed by human souls, so I would love hate to be at the table where that gets rules lawyered.

Yep. In 2e UA if a person and an animal end up in the same body somehow (that somehow involves demonic possession, specifically the UA version of demons which are basically ghost addicts) you get a werewolf (or whatever animal). Then, whichever soul is dominant is what the body becomes for however long that soul is dominant. This is explicitly called out as a really crappy state of affairs, because all the souls are basically just going to fight for dominance for however long the possession last, or until reality gets around to fixing the existence the lycanthrope because reality really hates lycanthropes.

Note that reality is kind of sloppy and low effort in Unknown Armies, so while you are an animal it's retroactive. While the animal soul is dominant you were never human, nobody remembers you existed as a person, photographs are edited, relationships never happened, at best maybe whatever animal you were was sometimes around the people you know or are close to. When you go back to being a person you were always that person, even during the time you were an animal. The example specifically calls out a raven lycanthrope, and points out that if someone they know sees them while they are a bird they will remember that person, as in that human person, flying through the air, and didn't notice it strange at the time until that person is a person again (time to roll some Unnatural checks methinks!)

If you want my ruling I'd say that because a werewolf in animal form is functionally an animal in all ways including according to reality that a Fulminaturge could fire away at them. It's not like they'd ever know otherwise after all, and that person was never a human being to begin with (for as long as they're animals) so how are they violating their taboo?

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

Except that if it survives and turns back into a person, the fulminaturge will later remember shooting a person. At the moment they have that revelation (which may be sometime later, whenever they have cause to revisit the memory) they will suddenly realise they broke taboo and lose all the charges that they currently have.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado


I think you're giving reality WAY too much credit vis a vis Lycanthropes, it's stated explicitly that reality takes the path of least resistance with them. Retroactively triggering taboo on a Fulminaturge seems hard and might require more reality edits (IE, they cast a spell after shooting that animal), ergo it prolly won't happen that way.

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

I mean they lose their charges as of the moment they have the realization, not retroactively to the shooting.

Cannibal Smiley
Feb 20, 2013

Cythereal posted:

Also, long, lovingly detailed descriptions of endless factory halls full of human women who have had their arms and legs chopped off, eyes and tongues removed, and they're all pregnant.

I think that they also did that in the Ultramarines novels - the third in the trilogy? But they were being used to incubate Chaos Space Marines.

Please don't let it be a thing that happened twice.

LatwPIAT
Jun 6, 2011

Robindaybird posted:

even ignoring the Sister Hat incident as everyone should, the Sisters of Battle was basically because A: Sexy combat nuns and B: they're tired of people asking to play female Space Marines and went 'here, happy now?'

The Sisters of Battle were mentioned on page 268 of the very first edition of Warhammer 40,000 in a description that for most broad purposes has remained unchanged since then. They have no stats provided, and I suspect they were something of a late addition, since they're not mentioned anywhere else in the book. (Though this also predates, I believe, all statements that the Space Marines actually have to be male. That seems to have first become a thing with White Dwarf 98 , which also changed the recruitment process from "the toughest psychopaths from feral planets tribes and hive city gangs" to "pubescent children with suitable genetics".) I don't have a complete set of White Dwarf issues from 1987-1993 to reference, but it seems this is all that's said on the Sisters of Battle until the major revisions to the setting that are all compiled in 2nd edition Warhammer 40,000 and Codex Imperialis.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you
One of the reason Stormcast are better then Space Marines. They have male, female and non binary members. They also had lives prior to becoming electric einherjar.

Terrible Opinions
Oct 18, 2013



Space Marines are kinda weird to me. If you're telling stories on a personal level like in an RPG, novel, or story based video game they don't really work as a full party of protagonists. They should either be an enemy faction, or like one guy in your party is a space marine. Same goes for Stormcast.

I'm sure it can be done well, but it just seems weird that so much of the media is focused on a group of guys who are all supposed to think the same.

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.

Terrible Opinions posted:

Space Marines are kinda weird to me. If you're telling stories on a personal level like in an RPG, novel, or story based video game they don't really work as a full party of protagonists. They should either be an enemy faction, or like one guy in your party is a space marine. Same goes for Stormcast.

I'm sure it can be done well, but it just seems weird that so much of the media is focused on a group of guys who are all supposed to think the same.

especially baffling as GW loves the "Strong man makes hard decisions" tropes which tends to work better with individuals than essential groupthink that Space Marines have in lore.

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Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Terrible Opinions posted:

Space Marines are kinda weird to me. If you're telling stories on a personal level like in an RPG, novel, or story based video game they don't really work as a full party of protagonists. They should either be an enemy faction, or like one guy in your party is a space marine. Same goes for Stormcast.

I'm sure it can be done well, but it just seems weird that so much of the media is focused on a group of guys who are all supposed to think the same.

Honestly, I thought the same until playing Deathwatch. The fact that you all come from different chapters does a lot. I don't even like 40k anymore but 'a team of super-badass manufactured heroes, who are outside of their comfort zone where everyone knew what to do just like them, all having to figure out how to work together' produces surprisingly compelling parties. But that means you have to have them all act quite differently based on their backgrounds; putting a relatively professional special forces operator with crippling self doubt, a paranoid technophilic spy, and a vicious space pirate on the same team and telling them they're responsible for a war of billions of people (because people expect the 3 of them to be able to swing it) is fun.

Which is why 'they all act/speak exactly like this' style stuff is poison.

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