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Night10194 posted:A useless prick who is second banana to a more powerful fascist and mostly fucks up whatever he's given to do? I suppose it fits. Didn't Helbrecht or someone lose his arms to a Necron Lord? Though looking at it, Marneus was hosed up by Tyranids in discarded lore. Everyone posted:You know that Krikkit superweapon from Life, the Universe and Everything? 40K-verse seems like a good place to use it. If anywhere needs a universe-wide mercy killing, it's that one. 
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Nov 13, 2020 05:47
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:I don't know if it's me reaching or now but shady bald dudes infiltrating the IG is their whole MO. I need to give this guy gigantic Professor Membrane hair
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Nov 13, 2020 06:52
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JcDent posted:Didn't Helbrecht or someone lose his arms to a Necron Lord? Just one hand, I think.
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Nov 13, 2020 06:53
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JcDent posted:Didn't Helbrecht or someone lose his arms to a Necron Lord? They retconned out the bit where he attacked a swarmlord in infantry combat at a polar region, got his rear end kicked and his arms ripped off, and then the entire 1st company died to make sure he got away?
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Nov 13, 2020 06:55
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Stephenls posted:So original flavor Marneus is totally going to have survived and be one of the shadowy figures leading the chaos forces, right? Like, we can all see that coming? There's gonna be a fight where Original Marneus is like "You stole my name and left me for dead!" and Tacitus Marneus is going to be all "You were dead and I took your name to honor you!" Yeah he maybe should have removed the dead body from the Khornate demon cave, but w/e
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Nov 13, 2020 08:03
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Night10194 posted:They retconned out the bit where he attacked a swarmlord in infantry combat at a polar region, got his rear end kicked and his arms ripped off, and then the entire 1st company died to make sure he got away? I think? It was oooold fluff, according to Lexicanum, the he got owned so hard he's more bionics than man now. I think 1st company just got swarmed dead now.
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Nov 13, 2020 09:55
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The fluff as of the Ultramarines supplement was he got injured by the Swarmlord during the battle for Macragge but it's not specific about the extent of his injuries, but he gets evacced and commands the fight in space. Meanwhile the entire 1st company gets wiped out in the polar battle in a seperate engagement as per existing fluff.
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Nov 13, 2020 11:44
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Dang, I got a great Deathwatch character out of an Ultramarines Apothecary who was 'promoted' to the Deathwatch rather than the Honor Guard because he'd been a little too vocal about 'Our own armless failure shouldn't be in command anymore' in the aftermath of the Tyrannic War. Sometimes you say something that turns out to be unwise when the guy holds on to his position, you know? Was always one of the places I assumed DW Marines could come from. Bright lads (and lasses) whose commanders wanted them to broaden their horizons, genuine chapter heroes their chapter wanted to show off, and respected soldiers who said the wrong thing before the right guy got promoted and so were due an 'honor' for their service that conveniently removed them from chapter politics for awhile. E: I cannot emphasize enough that the 'you are a bunch of people from very different backgrounds but with one serious degree of commonality who all have to learn to work together and learn from each other' part of DW was surprisingly compelling in play. If someone were to actually rewrite Deathwatch away from 40kRP, though, the game I'd use as a model is actually Pendragon. I think you could get something really special out of applying some of its design ideas to that context. Night10194 fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Nov 13, 2020 |
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Nov 13, 2020 16:13
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Night10194 posted:Dang, I got a great Deathwatch character out of an Ultramarines Apothecary who was 'promoted' to the Deathwatch rather than the Honor Guard because he'd been a little too vocal about 'Our own armless failure shouldn't be in command anymore' in the aftermath of the Tyrannic War. Sometimes you say something that turns out to be unwise when the guy holds on to his position, you know? You are seriously making me want to break out my Deathwatch books and make some characters.
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Nov 13, 2020 16:26
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The more I think on it the more Pendragon really would work as a model, and either you could make combat as potentially suddenly lethal as Pendragon for sudden twists of 'Oh no, Brother Lucentious!' or make combat notably easier and just use combat as it works out in Deathwatch, as the release valve on interpersonal tension/place things can boil over. But Marines all having a Glory score they're trying to maximize, while also focusing on their virtues and vices and trying to build a team and dole out who gets credit for what and what your relationships and passions drive you to do? That would get at the really (surprisingly!) fun part of Deathwatch.
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Nov 13, 2020 16:33
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I've never played Pendragon. Is it good?
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Nov 13, 2020 16:46
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CroatianAlzheimers posted:I've never played Pendragon. Is it good? Given the age of the core system, it runs shockingly smoothly. It has finicky areas and can be super swingy, tho.
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Nov 13, 2020 16:47
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With Pendragon a lot more of it is the core concepts. It's one of the earlier games to try to have 'narrative mechanics', as far as I can tell, where you have things like the great Passions that inspire you as a knight (but could also make you do dumb poo poo and cause adventures, or make you become Sad which can make you get into epic battles with your friends, or make you go nuts and go eat berries until your friends or a nun or something call you back) and the Virtues/personality traits you could be moved by. It does simulating Arthurian Myth very well, and produces Arthurian Knights who are pretty accurate to the stories. It also features a Glory score, which is literally your victory points, and you try to run that up by standing out and doing adventures and showing off your famous traits and virtues and vices. It also features getting murdered and passing on your Glory to your heir, as you try to build your family and estates over the generations and the Kingdom changes around you.
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Nov 13, 2020 16:51
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Night10194 posted:With Pendragon a lot more of it is the core concepts. It's one of the earlier games to try to have 'narrative mechanics', as far as I can tell, where you have things like the great Passions that inspire you as a knight (but could also make you do dumb poo poo and cause adventures, or make you become Sad which can make you get into epic battles with your friends, or make you go nuts and go eat berries until your friends or a nun or something call you back) and the Virtues/personality traits you could be moved by. It does simulating Arthurian Myth very well, and produces Arthurian Knights who are pretty accurate to the stories. It also features a Glory score, which is literally your victory points, and you try to run that up by standing out and doing adventures and showing off your famous traits and virtues and vices. That sounds pretty rad and very Deathwatchy.
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Nov 13, 2020 16:53
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CroatianAlzheimers posted:I've never played Pendragon. Is it good? It takes a very specific mindset, but if you have a group and DM with it, it's fantastic. Everyone is a Knight, and everyone has a lord. You probably aren't going to have the freedom to skirt patrol duty, so it's more a game of trying to be a virtuous, or not so virtuous knight within that feudal system. While there are rules for Male and Female noble characters, the game works best if everyone is a Knight. Combat is simple, and deadly. There are a lot of add-ons if the group seems interested in expanding Feasts, or large scale battles, or managing your knightly manor. It's one of my favorite systems
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Nov 13, 2020 16:54
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Like for example Wynnstan the Immense had his grandfather murdered by Saxons on sacred ground, by treachery, at a peace negotiation. So he was both incredibly into Hospitality being obeyed (also because he liked parties) and loving hated Saxons, to a degree unusual even in a game where every PC has Hatred (Saxons). Or Sir Justin had both his grandfather and father die in the same hour as the king they were sworn to protect, fighting to the last to defend their liege, and angled his entire career towards trying to be in the same position. You can see how this kind of thing would translate.
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Nov 13, 2020 16:56
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It cannot be understated that Pendragon is about how knights are massive loving drama queens.
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Nov 13, 2020 17:41
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Someone sell me on manufacturing worlds in Harn.
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Nov 13, 2020 18:02
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Bieeanshee posted:Someone sell me on manufacturing worlds in Harn. Do you think All Optional Systems: Yes for Rolemaster isn't enough? Well there you go.
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Nov 13, 2020 18:16
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Vadun posted:Everyone is a Knight, and everyone has a lord. You probably aren't going to have the freedom to skirt patrol duty, so it's more a game of trying to be a virtuous, or not so virtuous knight within that feudal system. Didn't the latest edition finally say "Screw it, just be a female knight if you want?"
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Nov 13, 2020 18:22
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Dawgstar posted:Didn't the latest edition finally say "Screw it, just be a female knight if you want?" I feel like there's been a "female knights are 'historically inaccurate' but also there's wizards and giants so do whatever you want" sidebar in at least the last couple editions.
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Nov 13, 2020 18:25
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Ghost Leviathan posted:It cannot be understated that Pendragon is about how knights are massive loving drama queens. Fuckin' sold. Bieeanshee posted:Someone sell me on manufacturing worlds in Harn. Is that a thing in the Harn proprietary system? The only experience I've ever had with Harn is playing it with Shadowrun 3 rules where we were part of a criminal syndicate in Coranan. My character was a former legionnaire and down on his luck knight who fell backwards into crime by acting as a bodyguard then helping the crew fence stolen goods. God, that game was so fun. At one point the crew stole a whole wagonload of rare, expensive hardwood and my character (Sir Bail) turned it all into fancy furniture (he was an engineer in the Legion and had a bunch of artisan and mechanical skills) and sold it to the Coranan gentry for, like, ten times what the unfinished lumber would have brought in.
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Nov 13, 2020 19:09
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I've always been pointed to Stars Without Number for planet generation.
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Nov 13, 2020 19:18
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I mean given in the Knightly tales you had things like Percival playing chess against himself and pitching the game into a lake for losing, the Song of Roland having the titular knight strip and run around naked in grief, Galahad getting loving lost on the way to the grail because he kept ditching the only knight (Percival) who had the sense to ask for directions and get a goat because he didn't want to put his fellow knights in danger. Then loving everything involving Lancelot including Guinevere berating him for making a big deal about having to ride around in a cart. Any knightly game that doesn't emphasize Knights are the most ridiculous sort of people on earth, they're not good games.
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Nov 13, 2020 20:22
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Dawgstar posted:Didn't the latest edition finally say "Screw it, just be a female knight if you want?" Yep. I just differentiate between "Raised as a knight" aka was a page + squire, or "Noble who now wants to fight/maybe got knighted". Doesn't matter in my campaign if they're male or female. Basically what skills you start with.
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Nov 13, 2020 21:17
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Ghost Leviathan posted:It cannot be understated that Pendragon is about how knights are massive loving drama queens. And that's why it's the only sane way to play Spaaaas Mahreens!
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Nov 14, 2020 00:28
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I mean, it wouldn't even be particularly hard to divest a hypothetical Pendragon 40K from the setting. Space Marines already have popular knight themed chapters, and they're already armored professional soldiers serving a feudal system. Drop some of that Golden Throne stuff and get some Dune Landsraad energy instead.
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Nov 14, 2020 00:41
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I think it'd be fairly easy to strip out 40k entirely from some of the settings. The universe is a big place and you are employed by "shady benefactor 525" is real easy to do.
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Nov 14, 2020 01:27
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Josef bugman posted:I think it'd be fairly easy to strip out 40k entirely from some of the settings. The universe is a big place and you are employed by "shady benefactor 525" is real easy to do. Hell, it's been a long time since I read much 40k lore, but isn't that explicitly how a huge proportion of the Imperium approaches things? Despite all the talk of Exterminatus and the universal shittiness of the Empire of Man, most people and planets barely have any idea and are largely doing their own thing? Because it's both too far-flung, and too disorganized and corrupt?
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Nov 14, 2020 01:48
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That Old Tree posted:Hell, it's been a long time since I read much 40k lore, but isn't that explicitly how a huge proportion of the Imperium approaches things? Despite all the talk of Exterminatus and the universal shittiness of the Empire of Man, most people and planets barely have any idea and are largely doing their own thing? Because it's both too far-flung, and too disorganized and corrupt? That’s the trap door GW gave themselves to retroactively tie any of their other properties into the 40K universe whenever they felt like it as well as excuse any of their writers if they inadvertently contradicted 30+ years of increasingly fascist lore.
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Nov 14, 2020 02:04
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Robindaybird posted:I mean given in the Knightly tales you had things like Percival playing chess against himself and pitching the game into a lake for losing What.
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Nov 14, 2020 02:41
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 Knightly tales are bizarre but interesting. The stories about the Twelve Peers of Charlemagne are just as wild. The Orlando Innamorato and Orlando Furioso have some wild tales in them. For that matter, look at this Wikipedia plot summary for Le Pèlerinage de Charlemagne. quote:Charlemagne asks his wife if any king wears a crown better than he does. To Charlemagne's outrage, she answers that the (fictional) Byzantine Emperor Hugo wears one better. Under the pretense of a pilgrimage, Charlemagne and his Twelve Peers set out for the east. They go to Jerusalem first, where they meet the patriarch, who gives them many important relics to take back, and also the title of Emperor. On the way home, they stop at Constantinople, a very beautiful and rich city free from theft and poverty. There they meet Hugo, indeed a very handsome and glorious king, standing on a golden plough. They are invited to the palace, an edifice which stands on a pole and revolves when the wind revolves. Chivalric romance drama queens is a great setting for RPGs. golden bubble fucked around with this message at 03:16 on Nov 14, 2020 |
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Nov 14, 2020 03:10
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Oof, poor Hugo's daughter.
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Nov 14, 2020 03:38
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Gotta say, the way the poster puts it Percival's sister sounds like a Discworld character, and I am absolutely there. 10/10 character concept I'd play sometime. Question though: Did Emperor Hugo exist before Charlemagne went off on his boneheaded quest? And did he, in fact, wear a crown better than Charlemagne?
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Nov 14, 2020 03:38
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I think I might be familiar with different versions of Percival because I thought he had an extremely put upon wife not an extremely annoyed sister. Is this one of those things that changes between tellings?
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Nov 14, 2020 04:08
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Sometimes you gotta be put in jail for being too hot but also you gotta fight a lot of evil knights. That's just what happens.
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Nov 14, 2020 04:10
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Terrible Opinions posted:I think I might be familiar with different versions of Percival because I thought he had an extremely put upon wife not an extremely annoyed sister. Is this one of those things that changes between tellings? There're like a minimum of a couple dozen versions of each story for each knight, especially if you go all the way back to way older legends they're probably based on that barely seem the same.
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Nov 14, 2020 04:13
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It just seemed like it a very similar character, and might have been an writer going "wait Percival has a wife, but he's also not supposed to have sex. Time to find replace wife for sister."
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Nov 14, 2020 04:15
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Terrible Opinions posted:I think I might be familiar with different versions of Percival because I thought he had an extremely put upon wife not an extremely annoyed sister. Is this one of those things that changes between tellings? It changes between tellings. In some of the stories he dies a virgin and in others he marries and has a son, Also, in Wolfram de Eschbach's Parzival, he's Prester John's uncle. (In Parzival, his father goes to Africa to fight in the Crusades, where he marries a Moorish queen, and has a son named Feirefiz, who's part black and part white, because Eschbach didn't know how skin color worked. Then he gets bored of not killing and goes back home and marries Percival's mother. Eventually, Feirefiz comes to England leading a Saracen army, Then he fights Percival, they realize they're brothers, he converts to Christianity and sees the grail, then goes back to his country, converts them all to Christianity and fathers Prester John). Percival, also, when he set off to become a knight, was advised by his mother that he should always be chivalrous around women, kissing their hands, and accepting tokens, like rings from them. But he didn't understand, so when he set off, he found a lady in a meadow asleep, waiting for her husband. He went over to her, kissed her hand, stole her ring, and ate all her food then left. When her husband showed up, he thought she was cheating on him, so he stripped her naked, cast her out and went to find Percival to get his revenge. Eventually, he did, they fought, he learned what happened, and forgave his wife for being assaulted and robbed by Percival while she was asleep. Percival was a mess, in other words.
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Nov 14, 2020 04:38
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From what I understand, you've got French/Continental versus English/Welsh versions of the Arthurian legends, and then within that they were treated like the way public domain characters are today - sometimes Lancelot is tragic character who loves the wife of the man he's loyal to, sometimes his name is a pun on how much he, you know, loves Arthur's wife.
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Nov 14, 2020 04:40
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