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Votecount for Day 2  Ceyton (9): Rhjamiz, SHALASHASKA HAWKE, IcePhoenix, Grandicap, DGK2000, Gumball Gumption, Squiggly, sandnavyguy, apostateCourier chaoslord (4): Sandwolf, apostateCourier, Bifauxnen, Yami Fenrir, Ceyton, Rhjamiz (2): Squiggly, Ceyton, sandnavyguy, Idle Amalgam (1): Chic Trombone Chic Trombone (1): Yami Fenrir DGK2000 (1): Sandwolf, CCKeane, Hal Incandenza (0): Sandwolf, sandnavyguy, Bifauxnen, sandnavyguy (0): Hal Incandenza, SHALASHASKA HAWKE, Grandicap (0): Bifauxnen, CCKeane (0): sandnavyguy, Not Voting (4): chaoslord, Idle Amalgam, Mr. Steak, SalTheBardWith 22 alive, it's 12 votes to execute. The current deadline is November 18th, 2020 at 11:30 p.m. EST -- that's in about 7 hours, 20 minutes.
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Nov 18, 2020 22:09
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CCKeane posted:Yeah, that's where I am. I think if there are two scum teams I don't think a Ceyton vote is ridiculous, if there's only one and then a bunch of 3P, well, poo poo, I don't know man. This isn’t meant to start a huge game-spec discussion, but since it isn’t the first time it’s come up (don’t remember if it was you mentioning it before or someone else), are there any actual, like, flavor reasons to believe two scum teams is a possibility, or is this just mainly a game size speculation thing? I haven’t played far enough into FF9 to know.
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Nov 18, 2020 22:12
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I'm a bit annoyed that so many people have voiced worries about the Ceyton votes piling up fast... yet no one seems to want to commit to taking this time we got to get in another wave of pressure votes on someone else, to see how that goes instead! But whatever, I gotta try and get my own reads out, just in case the scum still wanna have another go at me tonight. So here we go good ol Lumpenlist time. From towniest to scummiest. Actual town reads Yami Fenrir - Fairly strong town read. He's saying a lot when he's around and it has a pretty honest working-on-the-game tone to me. apostateCourier - I still read them as townie overall, though I think that's just because I sympathise with their posting style heavily. Not for the specific nonverbal thing, but for my deep drive to pick at details and spell things out as much as possible when people seem to be interpreting things differently than me. Her posting seems very natural to me at least. Squiggly - Leaning town since his post-zombie contributions seem good. Sandwolf - He's feeling fairly townie to me but that always makes me a little paranoid about him too. He's often actually scum when I feel good about his posting. So with that in mind, a more tentative townread overall. More vague and wishywashy townreads Mr. Steak - he's quiet and not causing trouble which makes me feel like he's maybe town. While he can usually be an extremely active townie, he can also totally space out or lose interest instead as town. I think when he's scum he does tend to lean more to the active side as he pulls crazy stunts with glee. IcePhoenix - I'm leaning town here cause even if he's not always posting much content, he's doing it frequently enough that it does feel like he could be genuinely chiming in whenever he's around even when he doesn't have much to say (and not shying away from a great flipped-scum joke), instead of holding back getting all anxious about when and what to post like a lurking scum prolly would. CCKeane - he always has a veneer of inscrutability that makes it very hard for me to ever trust him, but I could see it landing on the town side this time. Not currently suspecting him but he'd be good to keep an eye on and not get complacent with. SalTheBard - I'm looking at his blue mage claim and thinking, would scum Sal do this to try and prove himself? Just put his honest scum power out there (or play off a rolecop ability as if it's Quina, and just always get foiled and never get around to the casting phase) and get in a bit of rolefishing on the side? Well, it would be a good scum move all right but it's not feeling too bad to me yet. sandnavyguy - He's hard to read, even when he's town he seems to trip people's scumdars like crazy. Knowing that, I can give him some benefit of the doubt and I can see this as his town game... I just don't feel real confident about this read being any good. flerpstrike - too little content to judge so far, so not cleared at all but birb's snipey shitposts *could* fit his town meta. Null reads Chic Trombone - big lurker but I think this is a total null tell for her rather than evidence of scumminess. Idle Amalgam - I thought he was sticking up to me before, but then I thought Grandi's push on him was super bad. But Grandi's not flipped yet so idfk. Rhjamiz - I was seriously suspecting/hoping he might be a murderous 3P instead of a scum connected to anyone else, but now I dunno. He's never been a super active poster I don't think. I could see him as town, just don't really have much to go on. Ceyton - It's hard for me to articulate why I was getting scummy vibes off him. It was like, if I tried to read his posts in a "scum voice" it seemed in character but if I tried to read them benevolently in a town voice, it felt a little harder to believe. But his most recent posts felt a lot better so I dunno, I'm easing up a bit. Upgraded from scummy to null. Gumball Gumption - at first I thought the idea that binus was voting him seriously had some merit, and that GG could be town, but as he continues to not show up I'm getting more nervous that this might not be the correct interpretation. (Note to thread: go check who was selling that interpretation about the binus stuff, just in case. I might not have any brain cells left after this list to get around to it myself) Someone also mentioned they'd been scum with GG and he'd lurked like he does here. But I've been burned going after a townie GG real hard for mostly lurking too. I'm left not knowing what the gently caress to think here. Referee - Not liking his lurking but after the last game I played with him, I think it's worth keeping him around a while to see if his cool head will come through with some nice reasoning in later days. His last post felt a little scummy to me just now though so he's going near the bottom of the null section. Scumreads, in increasing order of scumminess t a s t e - posting like a black box and refusing to explain his thought processes can be town Taste, but those inner workings don't seem to be giving us much in the way of ultimate output either. Very vaguely sus. chaoslord - a good lurker to push imo. I don't like that he's gone right back under the radar soon as the heat moved on to someone else. He did say he'd still be busy but the fact that he mentioned skimming along while he was doing homework makes me think he really should've had at least one post after that. The drive to procrastinate and shitpost instead of doing productive homework is strong, did he really never cave once?! DGK2000 - feeling a bit nervous about him. In my limited experience with him I feel like he sounds more bitter and persecuted as town  Hal Incandenza - Man I can't make up my mind here. Back in D1 it already seemed odd that he was seriousposting so *early*. I really didn't like how he reacted early D2 either. I don't wanna say it *can't* be town Hal, but I am still feeling suspicious. Grandicap - my strongest really active scum read, but I am fine with giving him a bit more time. I think making the investment today to not just focus on the noisy and active people will pay off. Summary Man, now that Rarity and Amni are out and two random scums just got popped before anyone could even hunt for them, I don't actually have a lot of scum reads considering the game size. This sucks. Hell, even if my town reads are good they could have a murderous 3P hiding in there just trying to scumhunt in earnest, too. But this is where I'm at rn.
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Nov 18, 2020 22:18
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Sandwolf posted:Nah I’m getting a light townie vibe from Yami I think, his logic is just inconsistent. If you think Ceyton is scum, vote them, stop hemming and hawing about how you think Chic is scum defending scum Ceyton. Take a stand that you think Ceyton is scum. Guess you're right. Ceyton is at -3 and still hasn't claimed. I was worried about putting him there too early but... whatever. ##vote Ceyton As for Chic? Probably will still pursue, out of the lurkers I've read so far they seem the worst content wise (for what little content they have).
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Nov 18, 2020 22:18
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"drained of all life" makes me think Necron, which would make sense as SK. Ozma would make sense for that too, and I guess there could be a superbosses faction but that's as much brainpower as I want to spend on flavor based setup spec
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Nov 18, 2020 22:19
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Sandwolf posted:Nah I’m getting a light townie vibe from Yami I think, his logic is just inconsistent. If you think Ceyton is scum, vote them, stop hemming and hawing about how you think Chic is scum defending scum Ceyton. Take a stand that you think Ceyton is scum. Yeah, it feels like one is a vessel for the other. Referee posted:This isn’t meant to start a huge game-spec discussion, but since it isn’t the first time it’s come up (don’t remember if it was you mentioning it before or someone else), are there any actual, like, flavor reasons to believe two scum teams is a possibility, or is this just mainly a game size speculation thing? I haven’t played far enough into FF9 to know. I don't mind setup spec as much as most but I genuinely believe that it shouldn't matter to town how many scum teams there may or may not be. But to more directly answer your question, it would be quite a stretch to have two scum teams given the flips.
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Nov 18, 2020 22:21
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Hi hello its me slord. Actually done with work early instead of late magically (we did not find that blueprint in the room, no), no homework tonight, only thing really standing between me and posting is at some point I will eat dinner so I'll be here most of the night through deadline so lets do this 
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Nov 18, 2020 22:22
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IcePhoenix posted:Yeah, it feels like one is a vessel for the other. The thing that matters is a repeatable night kill under control of two different non-town entities. Whether that's a scum team and an SK or two scum teams creates roughly the same result: an environment in which scum need to hunt, too. Way moreso in the latter scenario so it's worth considering.
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Nov 18, 2020 22:24
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worth considering, but not in depth. It's D2, we don't have enough hard information for that kind of assumption.
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Nov 18, 2020 22:26
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Can I interest anyone in DGK or taste over Ceyton?
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Nov 18, 2020 22:31
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Yami Fenrir posted:Guess you're right. Ceyton is at -3 and still hasn't claimed. I was worried about putting him there too early but... whatever. Well now I've got 10/12 and 2 more "would vote"s so I might as well claim. I'm Marcus. Actor, thief... and vanilla townie 
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Nov 18, 2020 22:35
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Bifauxnen posted:Gumball Gumption - at first I thought the idea that binus was voting him seriously had some merit, and that GG could be town, but as he continues to not show up I'm getting more nervous that this might not be the correct interpretation. (Note to thread: go check who was selling that interpretation about the binus stuff, just in case. I might not have any brain cells left after this list to get around to it myself) Someone also mentioned they'd been scum with GG and he'd lurked like he does here. But I've been burned going after a townie GG real hard for mostly lurking too. I'm left not knowing what the gently caress to think here. Assuming what you’re referring to in the italics was who was pushing the idea that B- voting/casing GG was indicative of their likelihood to be town, here’s what I find on a skim: Referee posted:From a quick skim of the posts of both flipped scum, Mills seems to have soft-defended Hal and B- was after Gumball, but unfortunately neither player has a ton of posts or reads to go off of. (I didn’t really make a call on GG, but including for transparency) Hal Incandenza posted:Bus is a pretty extreme way to paint b- offhandedly mentioning me in one post. How do you feel about Keane and Gumball (both of whom he voted) and AC all of which he also mentioned (along with flipped town Rarity and Amni) (Also not really an alignment call on GG) Ceyton posted:More legitimate bus than the one on Hal IMO (Indicates B- was bussing GG, not that GG should be cleared) Sandwolf posted:see that reads more like a legit push, one that he can come back to as frequently as necessary for the rest of the game (Feels GG is town) Gumball Gumption posted:It's this one. (GG feels that GG is town?! Super sus /s) SHALASHASKA HAWKE posted:steak and DGk’s votes on GG yesterday also bad. binus effort-cased GG so I think he’s town. (Thinks GG is town) That covers through page 30, and I don’t think it’s come up again since then, so.
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Nov 18, 2020 22:36
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Sorry not sorry (well, kinda sorry) but I'm going to do that very obnoxious post as I go thing so some of this I'm sure will be answered already but just bare with me.Bifauxnen posted:Well drat that was a poetic and ironic N1 Checking votefinder I see you voted for Grandi and then backed away. What led to the back away? Especially because like, to me Grandicap posted:I'd be willing to take that as a pillar of a real case, but standalone I am very confused on how it is gaining traction. This reads to me as overly worried about Hal getting 2 votes plus a third person saying "yeah maybe". I try to put myself in the shoes of "town player who is concerned about someone getting to -10 right after the day opens" and short of having a super strong town read on someone I just don't see it. You can argue it's different playstyles but it just reads as scummy to me, trying to jump out in front of this vote as if the votes in the early going are going to create some unstoppable force. The interesting question here for me is "if I am right about this is it wanting to get in front to say 'see I knew Hal was town' or to make a save", which I don't really have an answer to. Little note to self to circle around once I get done with the 13 pages to go back and find your grandi case if it doesn't make itself apparent with your "future" vote.
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Nov 18, 2020 22:37
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Ceyton posted:Well now I've got 10/12 and 2 more "would vote"s so I might as well claim. Can we loving not lunch this obviously town person
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Nov 18, 2020 22:38
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IcePhoenix posted:I don't mind setup spec as much as most but I genuinely believe that it shouldn't matter to town how many scum teams there may or may not be. I was asking more as “is there a reason this has been brought up a few times, or not?” But I get your point and appreciate the response.
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Nov 18, 2020 22:38
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CCKeane posted:This is SUSPICIOUS. Did you really think it was suspicious or was that a bit? If "yes", why?
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Nov 18, 2020 22:38
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On the other hand Sandwolf, I think I've got more value to town dead than alive this point
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Nov 18, 2020 22:39
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Rhjamiz Hawke IcePhoenix Grandicap DGK GG Squiggly SNG AC Yami If any of your scum reads (or more than one) are on this list you should be rethinking this Ceyton lunch. IP, DGK, GG, AC all being on this vote gives me MAD BAD feelings
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Nov 18, 2020 22:40
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Sandwolf posted:Can we loving not lunch this obviously town person Take me through why they are “obviously town”
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Nov 18, 2020 22:40
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Ceyton posted:On the other hand Sandwolf, I think I've got more value to town dead than alive this point No, gently caress that, I appreciate it, but I don’t see you as scum now, which means scum are pushing your lunch, which means we have time to find scum before deadline
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Nov 18, 2020 22:40
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Sandwolf posted:Can I interest anyone in DGK or taste over Ceyton? Feel free to lunch me, but it's really just a waste.
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Nov 18, 2020 22:40
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Referee posted:Take me through why they are “obviously town” After three games do you think scum claim vanilla town *like that*?
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Nov 18, 2020 22:41
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DGK2000 posted:Feel free to lunch me, but it's really just a waste. So you’re here but just purposefully not adding anything. Why don’t you, in your own words, tell me why the Ceyton lunch is so much better
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Nov 18, 2020 22:41
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Sandwolf posted:Rhjamiz Hadn’t seen this post before I replied, considering this now.
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Nov 18, 2020 22:41
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Referee posted:Take me through why they are “obviously town” Sandwolf posted:After three games do you think scum claim vanilla town *like that*? I have seen all matter of terrible ways scum have claimed things.
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Nov 18, 2020 22:42
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Sandwolf posted:After three games do you think scum claim vanilla town *like that*? If they were coached to, perhaps.
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Nov 18, 2020 22:42
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Referee posted:If they were coached to, perhaps. SURE BUT COME ON!! I haven’t seen that level of coaching EVER on a scum team! “You’re gonna want to wait to claim, real late, like you have something worth claiming, but as it gets to towards your hammer, you claim VT! The brilliance is it won’t save you, but it’s dependent on someone seeing all of this as sincere and taking the stand for you”???
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Nov 18, 2020 22:44
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Sandwolf posted:Can we loving not lunch this obviously town person I could see myself switching, but why are you so convinced he's town?
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Nov 18, 2020 22:44
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a lot of vanilla town claims for a role heavy game.
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Nov 18, 2020 22:44
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Sandwolf posted:So you’re here but just purposefully not adding anything. Why don’t you, in your own words, tell me why the Ceyton lunch is so much better Like, I just caught up on 100ish posts. Look, you can lunch me now if you want, or I can keep reading along and noting things until the game is a normal size. I don't have any super strong reads. I did not like Ceytons posting. It's been a bit better, yeah. I would vote most of the game right now.
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Nov 18, 2020 22:44
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Mafia edit: see it now, hmmmm
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Nov 18, 2020 22:44
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Gumball Gumption posted:a lot of vanilla town claims for a role heavy game. Like this guy, who is scum. Would vote 110%
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Nov 18, 2020 22:45
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Ooh thanks for looking that up Ref, that's the stuff I'm talking aboutSandwolf posted:Can I interest anyone in DGK or taste over Ceyton? You sure can ##vote DGK
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Nov 18, 2020 22:45
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Gumball Gumption posted:a lot of vanilla town claims for a role heavy game. You have no opinions on who is scum or who is town do you?
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Nov 18, 2020 22:47
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Yami Fenrir posted:Turns out my brain just doesn't want to work for this (RL) day so I'll strive to get proper reads during this (game) day instead but I want to say that Steak's behavior re: the rarity lunch bothers me. Hi Yami, looking at votefinder it does not appear that (or anyone else) ever voted for Steak today, what ever happened to this? Do you still feel this way and have decided lurker lunch is better? You voted for Ceyton, me, and Chic today as your only votes when you have at least a half-proper scum read here.
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Nov 18, 2020 22:47
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Please note this post doesn't have a conclusion, just thoughts: It is interesting that sandwolf said let's go for a lurker lynch and not one person fought him on it. In my past experiences, people were usually reluctant to vote a lurker before days 3/4 because there wasn't information to be gleamed. Now, there is a fair chance of scum lurking, but I am interested in the fact that not one person really challenged this concept. Is it possible we're on the wrong track completely, and there are more vocal scum among us?
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Nov 18, 2020 22:47
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Sandwolf posted:You have no opinions on who is scum or who is town do you? For serious, he literally did this when I was scum with him. ##vote GG
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Nov 18, 2020 22:48
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Yes Squiggly that’s absolutely possible but we have like 7-8 lurkers today and I would rather kill one and rile up as many as possible today then wait longer.
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Nov 18, 2020 22:49
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Sandwolf posted:SURE BUT COME ON!! I haven’t seen that level of coaching EVER on a scum team! Rarity posted:It's late and I had like 4 hours sleep last night so I can't stay up much longer. I'm Blank, I'm VT and if I get lynched today sorry for playing so poo poo I guess I’m not completely dismissing your idea, and there’s tonal differences between the two, but Rarity’s claim was at approximately the same time of day to go until deadline too with similar pressure, so it’s not like this is completely unprecedented behavior.
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Nov 18, 2020 22:49
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Let's make this a bit harder ##unvote Sandwolf don't betray my inherent trust in you
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Nov 18, 2020 22:49
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