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do steroids not make you faster? I expect that's the advantage a guy like Dee was looking for (I'm not an expert but the fact that pretty much every Olympic sprinter bar Bolt has popped seems to indicate they give some advantage)
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Nov 22, 2020 21:56
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Sydin posted:Steroids also significantly up your recovery time, and I imagine being less sore come game time is not an insignificant advantage. A coupe of years ago I played something like 75 games across 3 different rec leagues in one season. It was brutal. Obviously that's nothing compared to a full major league season and I'm not in nearly as good shape as an MLB player but by midway thru that summer I was just constantly sore and something was hurting every game. Feeling recovered is a big advantage in a long season.
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Nov 22, 2020 22:06
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Julio Cruz posted:do steroids not make you faster? I expect that's the advantage a guy like Dee was looking for They speed up your healing time which allows you to work out and train more which if you train in a way that would build muscles to increase your speed, then yes, they theoretically could "make you faster." I'm no expert so someone can feel free to correct me but my understanding is that PEDs' primary purpose is to help you recover not only from injuries but all the small injuries and aches and pains that add up both from competing and training. They cut down that time you have to wait for your body to recover after a particularly hard workout or game or whatever. So whether they make you stronger or faster or leaner or the same as you were before depends entirely on how you use them and what your training regime is.
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Nov 22, 2020 22:06
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Steroids don't directly enhance performance in sports like baseball, like EPO does for endurance athletes. It just lets you do more of the things that do enhance performance while reducing the effects and duration of muscular injuries. Also it is amusingly pharisaical for people to cheer Schilling being blackballed from the Hall while whining Bonds isn't in.
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Nov 22, 2020 22:48
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bewbies posted:Also it is amusingly pharisaical for people to cheer Schilling being blackballed from the Hall while whining Bonds isn't in. One is a litteral white supremacist who has used his notoriety to advance those violent beliefs, and would surely use the additional attention and platform of HoF induction to continue to do so going forward. This means inducting Schilling has actively negative consequences on the world, not just imagined negative consequences to the perception of a sports museum. The other used steroids to improve and extend his baseball career, demonstrating the absurdity of the game environment at the time and forcing the sport to face what it had created through complacency. The league, the public, and the press did not care about PEDs when Sosa and McGwire were chasing 61. The baseball world only started to freak out when Bonds broke the game. In this way, one could argue Bonds' steroid use was good for the game in the long term, since it precipitated action to take their use seriously. bawfuls fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Nov 22, 2020 |
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Nov 22, 2020 23:12
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Popete posted:A coupe of years ago I played something like 75 games across 3 different rec leagues in one season. It was brutal. Obviously that's nothing compared to a full major league season and I'm not in nearly as good shape as an MLB player but by midway thru that summer I was just constantly sore and something was hurting every game. Feeling recovered is a big advantage in a long season. popete it is time to Roid Up and dominate the chicago rec league circuit with powerful bunts
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Nov 22, 2020 23:21
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What Schilling did on the field is absolutely HoF worth and I'm perfectly fine with the Veteran's Committee voting him in the second he keels over, but yeah it would be a hugely damaging move to let him in now because he will absolutely use the status to rail against the supposed injustices against him and to further his bigoted ideology.
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Nov 22, 2020 23:24
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bawfuls posted:Not at all. The reasons for wanting each excluded are in fact quite different. while I dislike the use of PEDs in baseball and disagree with those who apologize for it, I was referring to bonds' long history of alleged spousal abuse rather than his cheating as being at the very least comparable to shilling being a colossal racist idiot.
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Nov 22, 2020 23:28
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I mean he is far from the only dickbag in the HOF Bonds deserves to get in, and I think Schilling does also despite how much of a shithead both are
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Nov 22, 2020 23:39
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I hope Schilling gets inducted posthumously this year
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Nov 22, 2020 23:41
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GalacticAcid posted:I hope Schilling gets inducted posthumously this year 
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Nov 23, 2020 00:13
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R.D. Mangles posted:popete it is time to Roid Up and dominate the chicago rec league circuit with powerful bunts Turning bunt singles into bunt line outs. But then maybe I'll be able to break a bat over my knee in roid rage.
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Nov 23, 2020 00:39
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bewbies posted:while I dislike the use of PEDs in baseball and disagree with those who apologize for it, I was referring to bonds' long history of alleged spousal abuse rather than his cheating as being at the very least comparable to shilling being a colossal racist idiot. If Barrold were out there on twitter and talk radio all the time talking about how great beating women is and more people should do it, then it would be a more apt comparison. In both cases I am not concerned with the symbolic message their induction might send so much as the predictable real world consequences. Putting Schilling in the HoF will increase his ability to spread his violent bigoted message. bawfuls fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Nov 23, 2020 |
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Nov 23, 2020 02:09
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sure why not https://twitter.com/justjared/status/1330664688993017856?s=21
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Nov 23, 2020 02:10
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For a second I thought this was Kyle Tucker’s brother, only to find out that this guy also has a brother in the MLB system. Now I’m wondering what the highest number of MLB brother pairs ever in the league (including majors and minor affiliates) at the same time is. My guess is it might be more common than you think, especially in cases where a club signs a star player’s younger sibling as a way of currying favor.
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Nov 23, 2020 02:55
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bawfuls posted:Again I think Bonds spousal abuse does not have the same level of direct public harm caused as Schilling's outspoken white supremacy. this is a weird application of utilitarianism. also I'd argue that institutions normalizing domestic abuse is just as bad as normalizing racism but I admit I'm a real stickler about it. perhaps I'm undervaluing ser barrolds very impressive OPS numbers.
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Nov 23, 2020 03:25
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bawfuls posted:Again I think Bonds spousal abuse does not have the same level of direct public harm caused as Schilling's outspoken white supremacy. Physically beating women is worse than saying heinous poo poo on twitter.
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Nov 23, 2020 04:16
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bewbies posted:this is a weird application of utilitarianism. also I'd argue that institutions normalizing domestic abuse is just as bad as normalizing racism but I admit I'm a real stickler about it. perhaps I'm undervaluing ser barrolds very impressive OPS numbers. Patrick Spens posted:Physically beating women is worse than saying heinous poo poo on twitter.
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Nov 23, 2020 04:33
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bawfuls posted:I'm not talking about the institution "normalizing" something. That's actually not quite clear at all though  nobody is going to reject schilling's message one day and then accept it the next because he's a HOF'er or whatever
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Nov 23, 2020 06:19
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Since this thread is now Ser Barrold chat, I dug up my HoF ballot from last year: Bonds, Clemens, Helton, Jeter, Manny, Rolen, Sosa, Walker Jeter and Walker are in, so I've got six return candidates. Don't think any of the new guys pop for me but I was originally anti-Rolen until doing a deep dive. Also, y'all Omar Vizquel stans crack me up. I'd vote for him for the Hall of Nice Guys Who Did Web Gems a Lot but that's about it.
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Nov 23, 2020 15:14
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I’d vote for him for making cool plays Using stats to determine your vote is caring entirely too much
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Nov 23, 2020 16:05
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I would vote for Omar Vizquel because he was my grandma's favorite player when I was growing up and she would regularly refer to him as "that cutie at shortstop."
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Nov 23, 2020 16:08
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Aw haha. I would vote for Garrett Jones were he on the ballot, my grandma loooved him. “Good solid player - and he’s very handsome.”
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Nov 23, 2020 16:16
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pseudodragon posted:What combo of factors includes this specific set of 3 but not Clemens? He covers the rear end in a top hat and PDA bases and is more famous than Schilling. I didn’t look at the Ballot that close. Clemens and Manny in too. Even though Clemens is a huge shithead for trying to spear Piazza with a broke bat shard.
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Nov 23, 2020 17:52
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I'm actually fine with silly personal motivations for votes. That's why you got 10 votes. If enough voters have the same kind of emotional attachment to a player that he gets in they hey, maybe he IS a Hall of Famer? I'm ok with that even if his stats don't impress. I tend to be of the "let in the steroid guys, gently caress Schilling" crowd for the same basic reason that I don't want to give him and his entire world the satisfaction of a platform and celebration. Bonds is a shithead too but he doesn't have an agenda and the Hall is filled with violent shitheads. But I can't blame anyone for being bothered enough by him to not put him on their ballot.
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Nov 23, 2020 17:55
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Just for funsies here's bWAR for the HoF ballot: Bobby Abreu: 60.2 Barry Bonds: 162.8 Mark Buehrle: 59.1 A.J. Burnett: 28.8 Roger Clemens: 139.2 Michael Cuddyer: 17.8 Dan Haren: 35.1 LaTroy Hawkins: 17.8 Todd Helton: 61.8 Tim Hudson: 57.9 Torii Hunter: 50.7 Jeff Kent: 55.4 Andy Pettitte: 60.2 Aramis Ramirez: 32.4 Manny Ramirez: 69.3 Scott Rolen: 70.1 Curt Schilling: 79.5 Gary Sheffield: 60.5 Sammy Sosa: 58.6 Nick Swisher: 21.5 Shane Victorino: 31.5 Omar Vizquel: 45.6 Billy Wagner: 27.7 Barry Zito: 31.9 Usually 60 WAR is the point you start having discussions about if they're HoF worthy (Edgar, Biggio, and Halladay are all mid 60s) with some exceptions. Relievers can usually get in around 30 WAR (Trevor Hoffman). My ballot: Abreu Bonds Clemens Helton Manny Rolen Sheffield Sosa Buehrle Hudson Abreu had a sneaky great career, Bonds and Clemens, are well... you know. Todd Helton gets too much disrespect for playing in Coors, I went back and forth on Manny but I think he's contributed many great moments to baseball, Scott Rolen is one of the best 3Bs of all time and the hall lacks 3Bs in general, Sheffield was so loving cool, Sosa helped save baseball, Buehrle gets in on the account of being the "fastest" pitcher of all time between pitches, and Hudson is bubble enough that I want him to stay in to keep the conversation going. For what its worth, Omar had about the same career OPS+ as Ozzie Smith (5 points difference), so depending on how you feel about defensive metrics...
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Nov 23, 2020 18:17
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I love that Mike Mussina who has a pretty similar HOF resume to Schilling, got in which just makes it 100% clear that Schilling isn't in only because he's a piece of poo poo and having nothing to do with baseball.
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Nov 23, 2020 18:23
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I’ve seen some good arguments for Billy Wagner but there are a lot of guys that should be in ahead of him so whatever
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Nov 23, 2020 18:47
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The argument for Billy Wagner (and a lot of relievers, now and in the future) is going to boil down to "he was better than Trevor Hoffman"
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Nov 23, 2020 18:57
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Put in Mark Buehrle you cowards
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Nov 23, 2020 19:11
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I just looked him up and man I did not remember Billy Wagner being as good as he was. I think my brain conflates him with Billy Koch for some reason.
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Nov 23, 2020 19:19
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I remember it vividly lol he was torture in the division
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Nov 23, 2020 19:20
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bewbies posted:I just looked him up and man I did not remember Billy Wagner being as good as he was. I think my brain conflates him with Billy Koch for some reason. In the early aughts, Lidge in the 7th, Dotel in the 8th, Wagner in the 9th was about as much of a bullpen lock as you could get.
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Nov 23, 2020 19:38
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I'm a huge hall guy so even with the ballot being much thinner than it used to be i still have over 10 guys I would vote for. In order, let's see 1.) Bonds 2.) Clemens 3.) Rolen 4.) Helton 5.) Jones 6.) Sosa 7.) Manny 8.) Petite 9.) Wagner 10.) Sheffield 11.) Hudson 12.) Buerhle 13.) Kent And if I were a real voter a vanity vote for the Ole Musketeer too.
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Nov 23, 2020 20:06
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every year bonds is left out makes the HOF a bigger and bigger joke
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Nov 23, 2020 21:11
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I'd vote for Torii Hunter just for the all-star game catch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcQ5De9ZcZc Imagine getting voted in to the all-star game because of making really cool catches on ESPN and then getting the chance to do it in front of the world
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Nov 23, 2020 21:29
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big trivia FAIL posted:every year bonds is left out makes the HOF a bigger and bigger joke username/post combo 
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Nov 23, 2020 21:41
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IcePhoenix posted:I'd vote for Torii Hunter just for the all-star game catch Torii Hunter was a massive rear end in a top hat, though. I haven't forgotten his comments about people from the DR.
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Nov 23, 2020 22:35
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There's already been a big Covid outbreak in the Dominican Winter League https://twitter.com/hgomez27/status/1330851619647463427?s=20
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Nov 23, 2020 22:57
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https://twitter.com/mlbtraderumors/status/1331020390987165696?s=20
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Nov 24, 2020 00:53
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