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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:Yeah it's kind of bizarre that there's no 'enemy is advancing to capture your base' mechanics. I don't really remember it being too much of a problem in HW1 but it's just not here. I felt like most of the enemies were just static standing around in the same spots while the only ones moving were the tougher enemies like guardians. I think because of it I went through without ko'ing all that many enemies because they weren't exactly doing anything or trying to move from where they were rooted so just 'eh'
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Dec 1, 2020 14:40
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If I couldn’t meander around the map, how would I be able to collect all the treasures and Korok seeds? Also I did the first mission in chapter 6 yesterday (the one where you defend Akkala Citadel from an onslaught of monsters and Guardians) and it was probably the most traditional Musou level so far.
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Dec 1, 2020 14:47
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Yeah, the lack of battlefield management is my only complaint with this game. Glad to hear there’s some more traditional musou missions in the postgame.
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Dec 1, 2020 15:53
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There are a few side missions where there's that dynamic, but the limit is so generous you can basically ignore defending anything and just blitz the places you need to capture.
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Dec 1, 2020 17:29
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The only one I've encountered so far that's like that was the Fort Hateno battle, where I had to kind of ignore Purah for a while because the fort was being swarmed by a Lynel and three Guardians and got down fairly low in health. Of course, Purah wasn't in any danger the entire time, despite being around a Windblight Ganon. It also sticks out to me that there's a lot of battles with outposts that just don't matter, capturing them does nothing for you and the game never tells you to go there. Not sure why, in other Warriors games that would be a boost to your army's morale so they would fight a bit better, but without any enemy advancement they're just kind of pointless.
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Dec 1, 2020 18:18
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There were a couple of "Defend X!" missions that I failed due to my bases falling, but only when I played on Very Hard and ignored them entirely, and the checkpoint system basically meant that all I had to do when I resumed was go clear out the base instead of trying to take another outpost. There were like four Moblins and dozens of Lizalfos maiming it at the same time.
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Dec 1, 2020 19:56
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Taking a base gives you three treasure chests with goodies, so I always take all of them
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Dec 1, 2020 20:30
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:Yeah it's kind of bizarre that there's no 'enemy is advancing to capture your base' mechanics. I don't really remember it being too much of a problem in HW1 but it's just not here. I felt like most of the enemies were just static standing around in the same spots while the only ones moving were the tougher enemies like guardians. I think because of it I went through without ko'ing all that many enemies because they weren't exactly doing anything or trying to move from where they were rooted so just 'eh' Wait what is the actual game loop then? From playing Hyrule Warriors, the "fighting hordes of enemies" part was just gameplay maintenance, and the real engagement was time management, looking at the map and trying to juggle holding/taking outposts with the objectives. The combat challenge was just about being as fast and efficient as possible. If there's not that, are you just... Beating up a bunch of defenseless goons all the time? I'm enjoying the demo but I kinda assumed the missions would get more advanced.
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Dec 1, 2020 20:45
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Is there some trick to getting enough mobs to spawn for the training missions? It seems like every time I try one I’m scrambling at the end to have enough enemies to complete it in time.
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Dec 1, 2020 20:55
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duffmensch posted:Is there some trick to getting enough mobs to spawn for the training missions? It seems like every time I try one I’m scrambling at the end to have enough enemies to complete it in time. Not really, apart from "abuse the timer stop your ult does"-- Zelda's training felt exceptionally terrible in that regard
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Dec 1, 2020 21:12
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Still no DLC news but the wiki says that it's already outsold every other Warriors franchise game in a matter of days so Koei Temco must be beating down Nintendo's door begging to be allowed to make more zelda musous.
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Dec 1, 2020 21:23
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Tender Bender posted:Wait what is the actual game loop then? From playing Hyrule Warriors, the "fighting hordes of enemies" part was just gameplay maintenance, and the real engagement was time management, looking at the map and trying to juggle holding/taking outposts with the objectives. The combat challenge was just about being as fast and efficient as possible. There are different objectives but it’s mostly taking outposts, defeating big monsters and sometimes escorting a character. There’s still an aspect of time management, you can give your other characters orders like it Hyrule Warriors DE so often I will send them to important places and then switch to avoid having to waste time running to each objective. You get rewarded with more rupees for doing missions faster but the max (on normal) is 200 for time so it’s not much. Apart from a few missions, it does feel a little bit more like a Fire Emblem type game where your goal is to conquer the whole map.
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Dec 1, 2020 22:24
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Blackbelt Bobman posted:There are different objectives but it’s mostly taking outposts, defeating big monsters and sometimes escorting a character. There’s still an aspect of time management, you can give your other characters orders like it Hyrule Warriors DE so often I will send them to important places and then switch to avoid having to waste time running to each objective. You get rewarded with more rupees for doing missions faster but the max (on normal) is 200 for time so it’s not much. Gotcha. Is the combat more challenging then? I guess what I mean is if there isn't time management then taking outposts or fighting bosses seems like it doesn't really have a lot of challenge since most enemies are there to get mowed down.
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Dec 1, 2020 22:37
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There are Officer-tier enemies who don’t just get mowed down and they’re a lot more fun to fight than in the first HW
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Dec 1, 2020 22:42
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Tender Bender posted:Gotcha. Is the combat more challenging then? I guess what I mean is if there isn't time management then taking outposts or fighting bosses seems like it doesn't really have a lot of challenge since most enemies are there to get mowed down. The combat is definitely more engaging than HW, especially in regards to not having to stand around waiting for bosses to lower their guard or do the one thing you can counter with an item. Instead, you have reliable but limited in quantity means with the rods, that get stronger if you do something like fire rod on grass or electric/ice on water, then you have more skill based but shorter means in flurry dodging and parrying, and on top of that there's the runes which every non-mook enemy has at least one attack that can be countered with a rune and named enemies tend to start at two and go up from there. Characters themselves also tend to have some kind of gimmick or expect you to utilize the way they handle runes to keep things interesting and change things up, I also hesitate to point at any character and call them bad, like Lana's spear was, characters may lean towards crowd control or dueling but no one is outright poo poo. You're right that mooks are mostly there to get mowed down and build your special meter, but all the bigger/named enemies, especially things like lynels, are enough of a roadblock that you won't sleepwalk through them. Especially if you play on hard, normal I feel is a bit too easy if you're already familiar with Musou games and want something a little more challenging.
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Dec 1, 2020 22:51
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Tender Bender posted:Gotcha. Is the combat more challenging then? I guess what I mean is if there isn't time management then taking outposts or fighting bosses seems like it doesn't really have a lot of challenge since most enemies are there to get mowed down. Eh sort of. There's a lot more dodging so far. Unless more enemy types show up after chapter 5 or 6 or whatever, the gameplay loop is run from a to b killing enemies with a stun gauge, then head to c to kill a larger "boss" equivalent. It mixes it up by having elemental versions from time to time. Like, I'm enjoying it, but there's definitely much less thinking required to the games detriment. HW warriors wasn't some strategic masterpiece or anything but at least it felt like there were armies fighting eachother and without my help my side wouldn't win.
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Dec 1, 2020 23:09
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Kin posted:Eh sort of. There's a lot more dodging so far. Unless more enemy types show up after chapter 5 or 6 or whatever, the gameplay loop is run from a to b killing enemies with a stun gauge, then head to c to kill a larger "boss" equivalent. Yeah, I'm like halfway through and that's something I've noticed. It definitely seems like less of the push and pull of the last game.
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Dec 1, 2020 23:17
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I've been clocking through the game searching for Koroks and I forgot how much I loved the Blood Moon scene from the penultimate level, because it totally caught me off guard but I should've seen it coming.
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Dec 1, 2020 23:33
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In addition to no battle management, allies are an extra flavor of useless. More than usual if you can believe that. Captains do a lot less of anything and allied footsoldiers? Don't actually do any damage. No really, they'll slap at a single red bokoblin for half an hour and not kill the fucker. I realize that in some cases that's needed cause what if you have a 'kill x amount of things' objective and they killed too many? But still... I guess I'm a huge minority for this genre cause I always liked the dynasty warriors games for feeling like your a dude in the middle of a huge fight, rather than being the 1 against all.
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Dec 1, 2020 23:38
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Actually I think that's a draw for most people with warriors games. It's one of the reasons I bounced off of all of the other franchise ones because they all seemed to focus on you being the one thing fighting in the whole map. It kinda feels like that's where the design of this game went. That or it was rushed and instead of getting a lot of whats essentially custom designed levels with their own timing based solutions, we got a lot of generic kill x dudes in 5 minute missions.
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Dec 2, 2020 01:09
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Kin posted:HW warriors wasn't some strategic masterpiece or anything but at least it felt like there were armies fighting eachother and without my help my side wouldn't win. This definitely feels more like "Breath of the Wild with some Musou design" rather than the first HW game which was "a Musou game with some Zelda design." I like it, but I do wish allies weren't so useless and it felt more like an actual battle. I'm pretty sure the allied soldiers in the first level never even move. No wonder the king was so impressed with Link, he was the only one who actually decided to fight. The more I play with Teba the more convinced I am that he's just the most broken character. His C3 just completely tears through crowds and his C4/6 are strong as hell to the point that sometimes I just take out officers without even bothering with the weak point gauge. Mipha has a weapon with 40 attack power higher than his and she struggles to kill things, she has the same kind of problem I felt a lot of characters had in the first HW (maybe it was just me, I dunno) that strong attacks never really seem strong enough to actually finish mooks off, I always have to follow up afterwards with something else. So while I'm thinking about it I might as well ask. Fire enemies can be cheesed with ice rod, ice enemies can be cheesed with fire rod, what do I do with electric enemies? I feel like I had this problem in BotW too, I never really knew how to deal with electric types.
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Dec 2, 2020 01:22
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They don't have any particular weaknesses, but they are as vulnerable to environmental traps as everyone else, ie; ice in water, fire on grass. Supposedly, BOTW was originally going to have four elements, and you would have had Wind Arrows/Rods in addition to all the others, and presumably wind/lightning would have been an opposing duo like fire and ice, as it is in several other Japanese games despite it making zero goddamn sense. But the wind stuff got cut, and as a result, lightning is just The Strongest Element.
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Dec 2, 2020 01:40
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Dec 2, 2020 01:40
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Anyone know what I need to do to unlock Hair-Width Trial Expert+ in AoC? There's aaparently a Korok in there but I don't have this mission despite having completed every other fight in the game. Edit: Nevermind, I found it. Shadow Ninja 64 fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Dec 2, 2020 |
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Dec 2, 2020 02:52
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So I've been trying to make a super strong level 30 weapon for each character, and that has necessitated playing all of them again. Although he didn't impress me when I first unlocked him, I've gotta say, Monk Maz Koshia is pretty cool once you figure him out. Basically, the key to his gimmick is that all the poo poo he summons behaves differently depending on what you hit it with. The electrical ball, for example; if you hit it with normal attacks, it'll send out an electrical shockwave. But if you hit it by turning giant, it'll bounce forward creating impact waves before exploding into electricity. Figuring out how each of his "artifacts" behaves on different situations makes him fun and surprisingly deep, though I'm still not 100% sure that he's good, exactly. Summoning the shrine might be his best move, because if you hit it normally, it releases a shockwave that pulls enemies in, and then if you hit it with a giant strike, it just refunds your energy, basically making it an excuse to spam giant strikes for as long as you want. Use it to draw enemies in, then get huge and smack them around to your literally dried up husk of a heart's content.
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Dec 2, 2020 03:48
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Kin posted:Eh sort of. There's a lot more dodging so far. Unless more enemy types show up after chapter 5 or 6 or whatever, the gameplay loop is run from a to b killing enemies with a stun gauge, then head to c to kill a larger "boss" equivalent. Guardians show up in chapter 6 and are different from other large enemies, I think. The game is definitely a hybrid of the combat from HW crossed with mechanics from BOTW and I think it works really well. The two story missions in chapter six require management of outposts and defending characters, at one point in the second mission three guardians, two silver moblins and a silver Lynel converged on my main base and I had to deal with them before I could even think of finishing the current objective. They like to dump Guardians and other rear end in a top hat enemies into your outposts at inconvenient moments. On normal it doesn’t seem like you’re in too much trouble but I assume on Hard/Very Hard it’s a struggle. Do you get anything for beating missions on higher difficulty levels? More rupees?
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Dec 2, 2020 04:37
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Blackbelt Bobman posted:Do you get anything for beating missions on higher difficulty levels? More rupees? I am 99.99% certain you get nothing for higher difficulty levels, I don't even think the rupees you get at the mission complete screen are multiplied or anything like that.
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Dec 2, 2020 04:46
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I just got this after playing the demo and oddly it’s for the reason a few people above complained about. In HW1 I hated having to babysit outposts and I felt that I spent an inordinate amount of time running between them, and then the boss fights that were a bunch of waiting around didn’t help either. This seemed to be more prominent in HW as I never felt this sort of pressure in other DW games. Making AoC into a BOTW-themed beat-em-up with musou elements seems to be a big upgrade to me.
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Dec 2, 2020 05:06
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I really like that this is a little on the easy/mindless/chill side. I don’t need a hard as balls game all the time.
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Dec 2, 2020 05:56
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I agree that monk dude is kind of fun to play as but I wouldn't really call him good. He's fine but I've found myself enjoying playing him less and less the more I've used him.Gaukler posted:In HW1 I hated having to babysit outposts and I felt that I spent an inordinate amount of time running between them, and then the boss fights that were a bunch of waiting around didn’t help either. This seemed to be more prominent in HW as I never felt this sort of pressure in other DW games. DW4 (or was it 5?) had different kinds of area bases but for most of the other ones "bases" were just spots at the edge of the map with a single dude guarding it where soldiers of whatever army held it ran in from. And yeah, HW officer/boss fights are really bad, with a lot of waiting around. This actually is pretty accurate to older 3D Zeldas like OoT where enemies just blocked constantly and you had to wait for them to open themselves up, but it doesn't work for a Musou type game. I mean, officers block constantly in Musou games but you can do a lot of different things to get around that such as just moving behind them, or using certain types of charge attacks (I think 7 just had the C1 straight up be a guard break). HW relied too much on weak point gauges being a thing so you'd have to wait for the gauge to appear, and even then you'd get maybe two or three wedges off it before the officer just put up their guard again and forced you to wait. I like HW a lot but it's pretty tedious compared to this one, where you can attack officers constantly since they don't guard. It might not do a lot of damage but you're still being a lot more active fighting them since it's not just useless flailing.
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Dec 2, 2020 06:48
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Twelve by Pies posted:I agree that monk dude is kind of fun to play as but I wouldn't really call him good. He's fine but I've found myself enjoying playing him less and less the more I've used him. Earlier DWs like 2-4 also had most characters' C1/2 break guards too and yeah, the more I played HW the more I came to hate the giant bosses and I never felt like I had enough time to cycle through the item bar in the definitive edition compared to the wiiu's touchpad. It's hard to state just how happy the slowdown you get when selecting rods and runes made me in AoC.
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Dec 2, 2020 09:27
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i think i enjoy the final unlockable character less than the Great Fairiesi.
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Dec 2, 2020 15:15
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Who do you Dynasty Warriors heads think is the best character in the game? Impa and S+S Link feel a lot stronger than everyone else to me.
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Dec 2, 2020 15:26
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Impa is obviously top tier since her shadow clones do a lot of damage and also build special meter ridiculously fast and basically spam specials all day long. all Link movesets are all around pretty good, with greatsword Link being the winner there. a lot of people seem to think Mipha is pretty great but i'm not feeling her, on the flipside people also agree that Revali sucks, but his stasis rune into ground c2 into aerial c5 combo carried me through a lot of the game. Sidon is able to keep every single officer and boss in perma weakpoint gauge stunlock with his c6 so that probably makes him the undisputed strongest however.
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Dec 2, 2020 15:46
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Just a reminder that Teba has a stasis so long, and spammable combo attacks so strong, that you can freeze Moblins and kill them with chip damage without ever seeing their weak point gage.
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Dec 2, 2020 17:44
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Yeah, Teba, Sidon, Yunobo, Impa, Link, and Revali are probably my picks for top tier characters. All of them can just bully the poo poo out of everything and murder weak points Slate Zelda is also my dark horse for secret amazing character because you can do some absolutely insane stuff with her if you're big brained enough. Also on demand invulnerability owns
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Dec 2, 2020 17:53
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So I'm probably the last person in the world to discover this, but just in case I'm not; holy poo poo, Ganon literally has an instant weak point move. His magnesis summons three metal spikes which he strikes with lightning. This is, for some ungodly reason, treated as equivalent to a lightning rod, and will stun enemies and force weak point gages. It will even interrupt attacks and force the WPG of electric enemies, though it won't stun them, so it's not quite as useful for them. This just moved him up like a full letter grade for me.
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Dec 3, 2020 04:31
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Just beat Ganon, god drat that was a satisfying game. Does every character have a unique finishing smash for Ganon complete with Daruk cheering them on?
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Dec 3, 2020 04:52
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Nope, I think it's always Link.
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Dec 3, 2020 04:59
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Aw man, I wanted to see Hestu split Ganon's face open with maracas Ah well, guess that saves me like 8 hours replaying that mission with everyone.
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Dec 3, 2020 05:27
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