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Slanderer posted:Huh? At the end of WOR Szeth dies when Kaladin stabs him and burns out his eyes. The honorblade only dropped *because* he was dead and it was unbonded. Nale found him shortly after and brought him back to life with a fabrial before his shard-cut soul dissipated or whatever. Nope, that's the original version. One year after WoR was released Brandon updated the continuity. https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/23702-brandon-tweaking-words-of-radiance/ the highlighted post in this thread notes the changes made to WoR. Newer prints and ebooks should match the new continuity. Now Kaladin diverts his killing blow out of pity and Szeth falls into the storm or something
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Dec 2, 2020 03:49
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Ethiser posted:All that needed to happen for no one to question her surviving was for her to say the first oath while she was falling. Not even that is necessary because she's a goddamn singer in a form of power wearing shardplate. A several story fall should be painful but easily survivable for someone in her position. That editor hosed up and the series has suffered for it. 
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Dec 2, 2020 04:37
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Evil Fluffy posted:Not even that is necessary because she's a goddamn singer in a form of power wearing shardplate. A several story fall should be painful but easily survivable for someone in her position. She survived the fall, it was the drowning that killed her, which is why if she just got to become a radiant she'd take in Stormlight and not need to breath. Ethiser fucked around with this message at 04:42 on Dec 2, 2020 |
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Dec 2, 2020 04:40
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So I finished Hero of Ages - Part 2. Part 3 looks very short and I'll probably power through all of part 3 tomorrow. I love both The Citizen and Yomen as dual secondary antagonists. They're both so much stronger characters than Straff and Cett were. Not that Straff or Cett were bad per se, but The Citizen and Yomen are far better used thus far. I also really just like the stark contrast between their two cities and the state of the world. Still very confused by Kelsier in the fire. I'm starting to think that the Kelsier that Spook hears in his head is actually Ruin though. I'm assuming fire Kelsier is a weird thing (seems like that's explained in Secret History?) but the post-fire Kelsier, my guess is on Ruin. Because he was talking poo poo about Breeze and that would be lovely of Kelsier to do. The dance between Elend and Vin!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you would have told me during the first book that I would get loving excited about another ball, I would have thought you crazy. Everything with Vin and Elend attending the ball and meeting Yomen was loving gold. I still wish Elend would have loving just ended Yomen there. I totally agree with Breeze and Sazed that you can't just assassinate The Citizen, but there's no loving reason for them to not just loving merc Yomen. gently caress that guy. But the dance was good though. gently caress Yomen. Still in general just really loving both The Citizen and Yomen. They both suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck. I want them both deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaddddddd. I loving love that the epigraphs are basically "Here is Sazed giving you the wikipedia plot synopsis of what happened with the Lord Ruler before/during/after the Well." They're so much more informative and interesting compared to the no-info, worthless epigraphs in Well of Ascension. He's currently discussing hemalurgy and I assume that's all going to be very relevant to the rest of the book. We haven't seen a Steel Inquisitor since the opening of the book. I'm glad they're starting to explain how Steel Inquisitors work though. That had continued to be one of the big mysteries to me. And it seems that if you use hemalurgy, Ruin can control you. I also assume that both Yomen and The Citizen are tied to Ruin in some way. He's probably controlling them directly or indirectly. They probably are both covered in spikes or something. I just assume that in this book, everything is tied to hemalurgy/Ruin, so the villains are all secretly Inquisitors or something. Still no clue how the gently caress this book ends. Seems bleak as hell, but since I know Sazed is the narrator, describing all of this in the past tense (and referring to himself as the Hero of Ages), they have to win in the end, probably with a spotlight on Sazed doing something cool. Like, I have no clue if we'll ever even actually see Ruin since he's more described as a "sentient force." Also still wondering who/what the Mist Spirit is. Kelsier? Elendie? Preservation? Also, general Hero of Ages thoughts: I think, thus far we've had 6 viewpoints in this book? Sazed, TenSoon, Vin, Elend, Spook, Marsh. It can be a little tiresome, I think. Because often it's like "Oh, here's a very brief chapter checking in on TenSoon. Nothing is happening with him. Check back in 5 more chapters." "Marsh is still here stuck in his head. Come back in a few hours maybe something will change." This isn't a major issue and luckily the chapters, in general, are much shorter in this book so it never feels like it drags for long. It creates an interesting contrast between this book and the earlier ones. When the earlier books had a dragging character view point, it felt like the whole book dragged to a halt. Meanwhile, this book is more just like "Well, this one thread is dragging to a halt, but luckily we have 5 other characters to check on." But I will still have times where we return to a character and I'm think "oh yeah, they're still in this book." I do like that Cett and Orianne have stuck around in this book. Would have never expected they would stick around when I was half way through the last book.
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Dec 2, 2020 05:04
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Subvisual Haze posted:Nope, that's the original version. One year after WoR was released Brandon updated the continuity. https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/23702-brandon-tweaking-words-of-radiance/ the highlighted post in this thread notes the changes made to WoR. Newer prints and ebooks should match the new continuity. Now Kaladin diverts his killing blow out of pity and Szeth falls into the storm or something what the fuckkk
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Dec 2, 2020 06:05
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It's Sanderson's 'Han shot first' moment, really.
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Dec 2, 2020 06:16
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mossyfisk posted:Sanderson has become too powerful for an editor to stop, and it's not great. In case you guys missed it in the acknowledgements section: RoW Acknowledgements posted:At Tor Books, my primary editor on this novel was Devi Pillai...This is my first Cosmere book that wasn't done with my longtime editor Moshe Feder... Moshe was the editor who discovered Brandon, and edited WoK, WoR and OB, though the transition had clearly been planned for a while: OB Acknowledgements posted:My editor at Tor on this project was the ever-brilliant Moshe Feder. Special thanks to Tom Doherty, who has believed in the Stormlight project for years, and Devi Pillai, who provided essential publishing and editorial aid during the course of the novel's creation. Dawnshard Acknowledgements posted:At their forefront is the indefatigable Peter Ahlstrom, Editorial Director at my company and primary editor of this volume. Continuity editor has been Karen Ahlstrom (Peter's wife) for a while, she seemed to have taken over after WoR when Peter was still the primary continuity editor. Evil Fluffy posted:That editor hosed up and the series has suffered for it. Brandon on Eshonai: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/369/#e11666 Strumpy posted:I don't think I agree with that one. With RoW there were more structural and conceptual problems rather than issues on the editing side. The story felt a bit smaller and constrained to the tower so it lost some of the larger scale of the previous books. That being said I liked it well enough and I think it will hold up better reading 4 and 5 back to back. Sanderson doesn't seem like someone that wants a yes person as his editor. Time will tell I guess. Brandon on structure of Stormlight books: Brandon Sanderson posted:I split each book into five parts, which group together to form three chunks plotted like individual volumes of a trilogy--with a large, over-arching plot that ties into the five-book arc of the initial sequence, which in turn is half of the complete ten book arc. Each volume, then, has a complete trilogy's worth of arcs and climaxes for the primary characters (Kaladin, Shallan, Dalinar) while also having a self-contained flashback sequence, at least one secondary novelette about a character that hasn't had viewpoints so far, and a related short story collection. The "main character" for the book gets, beyond their flashback sequence, a role in each part of the story. I actually think he threw this structure out when he did RoW: * He's on record as saying that he deliberately plotted Part One to be the Sanderlanche of the book that would have happened in the one year time skip between OB and RoW. * Part Two is really then the first part of a new "book", but we went straight into the Tower being lost, so narratively it's a bit darker than expected. It's sort of frustrating as readers because it feels like the battlefront at Emul was used to keep Dalinar and Jasnah out of the picture, since their presence probably would have resulted in the invasion being rebuffed. There's all sorts of in-world justification for it, but I think as readers we felt a bit baited and switched because we left Part One with the understanding that the story was going to follow Adolin and Shallan into Shadesmar (which we did), and then Dalinar and Jasnah to Emul (which we barely did and it didn't affect the main plot at all, other than to explain the poor subterfuge Team Odium was using to allay suspicion from Dalinar and Jasnah), and Kaladin starting the beginnings of mental health care and wellbeing on Roshar (which got nixed very quickly). What I WANTED to see was Dalinar and Jasnah panicking about the loss of their home base and reacting to that, but I didn't get that. * Part Three then becomes yet ANOTHER new "book" which is mainly Navani's gig and Kaladin, Venli and Rlain don't feel like they're doing much. It feels slow because it IS slow, just mostly Cosmere lore dumping * Part Four is a really short wrap up of the Part Two "book" interwoven with the Part Three "book". As most have pointed out it feels unsatisfying because we've got a whole crew of Radiants outside the gates doing nothing while Shallan and Adolin are inside for the trial. This is somewhat offset by the fact we get two long awaited payoffs of Maya rescuing Adolin and Shallan finally confronting a portion of her past. Navani and Raboniel are the definite highlight in here - unusual for the fact that this is the middle part of their "book". * Part Five is the resolution of the Part Three "book" with some denouement for the Part Two "book" - there are three payoffs: Kaladin's Fourth Ideal, Navani bonding the Sibling and Taravangian's Ascension as Odium and the falling action to set up the next book: the terms of the contest of champions in 10 days plus Shallan finding Testament and declaring open war with the Ghostbloods So overall, while I enjoyed the book (mainly because of the  moments I had during the Cosmere reveals), it's structurally much weaker than WoK or WoR.In Sanderson's framework, I would say that the twists in the direction of the plotlines were probably not telegraphed enough upfront because even anticipating RoW as the book where we finally get answers about fabrials and the Sibling, the promises made by the end of Part One just didn't connect that well with the pay offs we got: - the battle in Emul was won but we knew Odium basically conceded that territory in his bid to control Urithiru so it didn't feel earned; - the honorspren were convinced but it had nothing to do with the plan they originally came up with, which is not bad in itself, except for the fact that all those other Radiants contributed nothing so that's why it felt fluffy; - then with the end of the book, we know we're not going to see Kaladin do anything with figuring out therapy for battle shock because now he's off to try and fix Ishar's insanity which is magical in origin. On the plus side, we can look forward to the Rock novella which seems semi-confirmed: quote:Questioner We'll know for sure in about 2 weeks when the next State of the Sanderson goes up on Koloss Head Munching Day. Leng fucked around with this message at 06:31 on Dec 2, 2020 |
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Dec 2, 2020 06:28
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“I am Human.” gently caress
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Dec 2, 2020 21:19
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Mordiceius posted:“I am Human.” gently caress Never stop posting these
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Dec 2, 2020 21:39
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I need to go re-read the Mistborn trilogy now. I had forgotten how subtle so many of the hints are.
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Dec 2, 2020 21:40
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I think what I appreciate most of the Mistborn series is how each book operates on a different level even though they flow into each other. It escalates well. Second-favorite would be that the first book has a solid resolution so even though there's mysteries unanswered and places it can go it's very easy to recommend to people as a book they won't feel compelled to follow up on if they dislike it.
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Dec 2, 2020 22:19
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So the only thing that really isn't landing for me so far in Hero of Ages is Spook hearing Kelsier's voice. Because unless this is an incredible misdirection, it feels like it is obviously Ruin speaking to him, like he did Zane. So it just feels like I'm tapping my foot waiting for this to resolve. Spook getting new powers is cool, though not a huge fan of Kelsier's flame spirit. I prefer the dead to stay dead.
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Dec 3, 2020 02:16
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This is a detail that was clarified before the release of Hero of Ages, but I'm putting it in spoiler tags just in case you don't want answers about the author's style influencing your reading. It has to do with the way Sanderson wants to handle death in the Cosmere. Sanderson doesn't really gently caress around with undoing death very much. The dead are dead; this was a detail he clarified before Hero of Ages came out. Interestingly, the above conversation about Roshar has to do with a thing that was undone in a Roshar book because "oops I made a continuity error" regarding how permanent death needs to be. Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Dec 3, 2020 |
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Dec 3, 2020 16:20
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edit: weird, my spoiler tag won't work, welp oh well
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Dec 3, 2020 16:24
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Fix your spoiler tags! e: never mind.
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Dec 3, 2020 16:25
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxV20CVtYJo Not sure this was posted earlier. He interviews his editors but from what I gathered his actual editing is done in the outline, and then he writes that out and corrects things if they read funny. No one is saying this is too long, except possibly for cost of printing reasons.
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Dec 3, 2020 16:36
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Potato Salad posted:This is a detail that was clarified before the release of Hero of Ages, but I'm putting it in spoiler tags just in case you don't want answers about the author's style influencing your reading. It has to do with the way Sanderson wants to handle death in the Cosmere. Ah. Interesting. I guess that doesn't really solve my problem with the Spook arc in this story currently. I hope my issues get resolved sooner rather than later as I'm rarely a fan of the reader knowing far more about a certain thing than the character.
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Dec 3, 2020 18:37
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WAIT! WAIT! WAIT! Is Vin’s earring a hemalurgic spike???? Is the “Reen” in her head actually just Ruin???? Did Vin’s mother kill Vin’s baby sister to imbue the earring with power?
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Dec 3, 2020 19:48
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Mordiceius posted:WAIT! WAIT! WAIT! RAFO
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Dec 3, 2020 19:53
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Yessssss so good.
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Dec 3, 2020 19:57
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Mordiceius posted:WAIT! WAIT! WAIT! Welcome to Brandon Sanderson, where throwaway details come back to haunt you three books later.
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Dec 3, 2020 20:07
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Mordiceius posted:WAIT! WAIT! WAIT! You are going to LOVE the conclusion.
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Dec 3, 2020 20:10
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I’m only toward the end of part 3 of Hero of Ages, so I’m still not at any part where it has been directly revealed (if it even is) but it was a combination of everyone hearing voices is probably just hearing Ruin - hence why Ruin wanted Spook to keep the sword spike in him, and then Marsh when stabbing Penrod was thinking about how a small pin could serve as a spike. I, just when typing this, connected how the sword that stabbed Spook went THROUGH another soldier. gently caress.
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Dec 3, 2020 20:16
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Mordiceius posted:I, just when typing this, connected how the sword that stabbed Spook went THROUGH another soldier. gently caress. Yep.
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Dec 3, 2020 20:25
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It’s hemalurgy all the way down.
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Dec 3, 2020 20:35
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The Earring is the second best payoff Sanderson has done, the first of course being Spooks accent.
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Dec 3, 2020 21:12
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socialsecurity posted:The Earring is the second best payoff Sanderson has done, the first of course being Spooks accent. If I could change one thing about anything he's ever written it'd be Spooks, holy poo poo I hate everything about the way he speaks.
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Dec 3, 2020 21:34
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socialsecurity posted:The Earring is the second best payoff Sanderson has done, the first of course being Spooks accent. At that point in the book, I legitimately stopped reading just to laugh for a couple of minutes. The payoff for Steris in Bands of Mourning was also pretty good when she tells the hotel owner to look up the contingency plan for her guests being "framed for murder".
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Dec 3, 2020 21:47
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big mean giraffe posted:If I could change one thing about anything he's ever written it'd be Spooks, holy poo poo I hate everything about the way he speaks. Spook's accent, at least in the audiobook, kinda comes across as borderline problematic. And I could see people even arguing it being fully racist. Anyway, I just wrapped Hero of Ages Part 3 (along with the first chapter of part 4). So I am assuming fire Kelsier was not actually Kelsier but was Ruin the whole time? Because if so, I retract my previous annoyances with that because Sanderson duped me! Even if fire Kelsier was truly ghost Kelsier (which I don't think it was at this point), the voice in Spook's head is 100% Ruin. The sword being the hemalurgic spike was genius and a great misdirection I did not pick up on. The "Reen" reveal at the end made me shout out OH gently caress, though it was immediately explained as Ruin in the next chapter. It was a good surprise. I assume Yomen isn't actually Mistborn. Maybe he can just burn Atium? I had always wondered why every assumed mistings could only be for the 8 primary metals. Like, a misting that could only burn duralumin would be pretty loving worthless, but still technically a misting (and a viable target for hemalurgy, though probably impossible to actually find). How many metals are we up to now? Somewhere between like 12 and 15 or something. I can't keep track anymore. Either way, I assume there's mistings that can only burn gold, electrum, atium, and the like. The stuff with Vin and Reen/Ruin that I like is that the book reveals it almost immediately after I figure it out myself. It hasn't directly addressed the earring yet, but the "Reen's voice was Ruin's all along" got revealed shortly after I connected those dots. I like that. I think that's also why the Spook stuff annoys me more. That's very obviously not Kelsier's voice so I feel like I'm just waiting for that to catch up and get revealed. Either way - part 3 was short but had a lot of good reveals. Reen's voice being Ruin and "I am Human" being foremost among them.
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Dec 3, 2020 22:08
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Mordiceius posted:Anyway, I just wrapped Hero of Ages Part 3 (along with the first chapter of part 4). I love reading your reactions so much. It's like I get to vicariously live rereading all of Sanderson's books again for the first time. You are gonna love love love love LOVE the ending.
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Dec 3, 2020 22:13
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I'm looking forward to the ending reaction. Also for their eventual reaction to the ending of Shadows of Self. socialsecurity posted:The Earring is the second best payoff Sanderson has done, the first of course being Spooks accent. I forget what the payoff is here, other than eventually figuring out how to understand what he's saying.
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Dec 3, 2020 23:05
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Evil Fluffy posted:I forget what the payoff is here, other than eventually figuring out how to understand what he's saying. vin's sister was a bronze misting, ruin controlled her mother to kill the child with the earring to make it into a hemalurgic spike, vin wearing it gave her the extra bronze juice necessary to detect the pulsings of the well of ascension and release Ruin (and, also, it lets Ruin talk to her since it's a spike, and gives her the ability to pierce copperclouds, which it's repeatedly noted that she should not be able to do)
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Dec 3, 2020 23:17
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eke out posted:vin's sister was a bronze misting, ruin controlled her mother to kill the child with the earring to make it into a hemalurgic spike, vin wearing it gave her the extra bronze juice necessary to detect the pulsings of the well of ascension and release Ruin Sorry, I meant Spook's accent. I remember Vin's stuff. 
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Dec 3, 2020 23:33
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Evil Fluffy posted:Sorry, I meant Spook's accent. I remember Vin's stuff. oh lol yeah i think they mean the payoff is joke that High Imperial (or whatever they call the old, formal written language, i forget) that they mention in wax/wayne is actually just spook's dialect
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Dec 3, 2020 23:38
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eke out posted:oh lol yeah i think they mean the payoff is joke that High Imperial (or whatever they call the old, formal written language, i forget) that they mention in wax/wayne is actually just spook's dialect I'm sure it's this. You hear about High Imperial as the formal language, and then sometimes later I think Marasi is trying to say something in High Imperial, and it's all "wasing the where" etc. And at least I went "holy poo poo, SPOOKS SLANG IS HIGH IMPERIAL???"
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Dec 3, 2020 23:55
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Torrannor posted:I'm sure it's this. You hear about High Imperial as the formal language, and then sometimes later I think Marasi is trying to say something in High Imperial, and it's all "wasing the where" etc. And at least I went "holy poo poo, SPOOKS SLANG IS HIGH IMPERIAL???" having recently finished my reread of those books, i really want to know what the hell is going on with Spook in modern times. that dude could be anywhere and is probably one of the most dangerous good-aligned folks alive in the whole cosmere: hundreds of year old, full mistborn, undetermined number of hemalurgic spikes giving him god-knows-what feruchemical abilities (since he was studying it, advocated for its use, and Kelsier directly alludes to giving him feruchemy in SH) assuming he's alive of course, but no one in-universe seems to know where he is and there appears to be no record of him dying, plus brandon rafos all questions about it eke out fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Dec 4, 2020 |
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Dec 4, 2020 00:05
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eke out posted:having recently finished my reread of those books, i really want to know what the hell is going on with Spook in modern times. What if the whole 'lord of scars' thing is misdirection? Spook would have a fair few of his own...
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Dec 4, 2020 00:15
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Space Butler posted:What if the whole 'lord of scars' thing is misdirection? Spook would have a fair few of his own... i love it but it wouldn't fit the other details, unless he's also trapped on Scadrial and Hoid has also punched him, which seems unlikely
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Dec 4, 2020 00:27
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Evil Fluffy posted:Sorry, I meant Spook's accent. I remember Vin's stuff. eke out posted:oh lol yeah i think they mean the payoff is joke that High Imperial (or whatever they call the old, formal written language, i forget) that they mention in wax/wayne is actually just spook's dialect Torrannor posted:I'm sure it's this. You hear about High Imperial as the formal language, and then sometimes later I think Marasi is trying to say something in High Imperial, and it's all "wasing the where" etc. And at least I went "holy poo poo, SPOOKS SLANG IS HIGH IMPERIAL???" Not just that one!!! How could you guys forget THIS gem? Mistborn: The Final Empire posted:Spook frowned. "Niceing the not on the playing without."
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Dec 4, 2020 02:30
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I should re-read the original Mistborn trilogy I've only read it once, and in Spanish.
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Dec 4, 2020 03:44
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