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Infidelicious posted:lol @ the idea of controls making sense in any star trek. Or controlling a sophisticated starship in TOS with switches and blinking incandescent lights.
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Dec 8, 2020 21:55
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ashpanash posted:Or controlling a sophisticated starship in TOS with switches and blinking incandescent lights. Multicolor rhinestones. Click the red one, then the green one and then the blue one two times to program a completely new algorithm for modulating the phasers or warp core or something to fix a completely unique situation that has never been encountered before.
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Dec 8, 2020 22:01
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My headcanon is that the computer is literally doing everyone's job except the captain, and everyone is there to inform the captain of things. The useless buttons and LCARS are just there to make them feel like they're doing things. The handheld VR controllers Detmer used in the last episode made me laugh though, since in fine trek tradition she wasn't wearing a seatbelt, and it's really nice that 'manual mode' can interpret what she's doing vs. the shaking from being shot. Infidelicious fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Dec 8, 2020 |
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Dec 8, 2020 22:02
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OK look I'm not saying that the controls ever made a ton of sense. The blinking buttons of TOS were always sort of dumb but at least the idea of trained professionals pushing buttons makes sense and was relatable at the time, which is the most important part. The controls generally in TNG onward were relatable enough that things only rarely jumped out at you as implausible or dumb - except when they made them a plot device and then LOL MANUAL STEERING COLUMN and switches in the delta flyer Disco's new WOWZA controls are being talked about, made part of the plot, focused on by the show, and they make no sense even conceptually. These people aren't trained to enter SIMON macros on blinking colored buttons, they aren't looking at an intuitive predictive LCARS or into a lookin' tube like  or a little headset like the dominion to hide what they see. They don't see anything, they just move their hands around in some Nickelodeon Floam. The issue isn't that we don't see how it can work, they didn't even pretend to make it plausible or fathomable or offer any explanation at all except We have a CGI button and I liked that scene in Black Panther
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Dec 8, 2020 22:08
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Taear posted:Wasn't it that he was given it as a project though, not that it was his baby? I get he was excited to write it when he was given it but he didn't come to Disney and say "I really want to do a film about Solo" Solo was basically Larry Kasdan's condition for co-writing TFA with JJ, Jon tagged along because idk why not when you're a writer, like Star Wars, and your dad's writing a dang Star Wars movie Anyway he's co-writing the D+ Willow series now, which I'm pretty jazzed for
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Dec 8, 2020 22:23
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Cross-Section posted:Solo was basically Larry Kasdan's condition for co-writing TFA with JJ, Jon tagged along because idk why not when you're a writer, like Star Wars, and your dad's writing a dang Star Wars movie Yeah, Larry Kasdan had been screaming to do a Solo movie for years, even before Disney bought Lucasfilm. Solo was always Kasdan's favorite character to write. And then Lord & Miller started allowing the actors do so some improv on the set, because what the gently caress do you expect from two guys who have done comedies their entire career, and Kasdan went to Kathy Kennedy and basically screamed, "Mommy, they're not shooting the script exactly as I wrote it!" So L&M got fired, a really awful hit piece on them was planted in either Vulture or THR, and in comes Ron Howard to be ... Ron Howard.
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Dec 8, 2020 22:29
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MariusLecter posted:Multicolor rhinestones. Jolly Ranchers. If you wanna target phasers and fire on a ship to port but not starboard, you gotta remember it's two watermelons and an orange tangerine. Hit the sour apple instead and you'll get court martialed for destroying a friendly transport.
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Dec 8, 2020 22:34
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Delsaber posted:Jolly Ranchers. If you wanna target phasers and fire on a ship to port but not starboard, you gotta remember it's two watermelons and an orange tangerine. Hit the sour apple instead and you'll get court martialed for destroying a friendly transport. George Takei actually worked out an entire pattern of hitting the buttons to send the Enterprise to warp (he joked that he didn't have anything better to do on long days, so why not?). He wound up getting pissed off at a first-time director, I think it was a third-season guy, who was like, "The hell are you doing all that for? Just push a button, ship goes fast."
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Dec 8, 2020 22:38
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Infidelicious posted:My headcanon is that the computer is literally doing everyone's job except the captain, and everyone is there to inform the captain of things. The useless buttons and LCARS are just there to make them feel like they're doing things. Yeah, with the state of AI in Trek, that's the only way I could ever make sense of the whole thing. Most of their technology is probably required to have some manual buttons that function as a make work program. Something like in the Dune universe, but instead of an outright prohibition of automated machines, they just need to have big glowing buttons that have to be regularly pressed by meat sacks. Maybe they also have some kind of mental puzzles or sudokus so people don't get bored while doing it. Or you can watch porn or spaceflix or something.
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Dec 8, 2020 22:53
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Timby posted:George Takei actually worked out an entire pattern of hitting the buttons to send the Enterprise to warp (he joked that he didn't have anything better to do on long days, so why not?). He wound up getting pissed off at a first-time director, I think it was a third-season guy, who was like, "The hell are you doing all that for? Just push a button, ship goes fast." Didn't Wil Wheaton do a similar thing for his console on TNG?
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Dec 8, 2020 22:55
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I think anyone that has part of their role in a show being to perform some action every episode comes up with a routine. I think it was Firefly where the guy would run into the cockpit, and flip the same three switches because he decided that's what starts the engines.
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Dec 8, 2020 23:12
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900 years in the future how many button pushes on the intelligent matter does it take to start playing HMS Pinafore?
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Dec 9, 2020 00:19
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P2P or Pushes to Pinafore is the ultimate measure of UI design
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Dec 9, 2020 00:26
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MariusLecter posted:Multicolor rhinestones. the way star trek bridge crew handled it is pretty fun, they ui hover labels over them like you're supposed to memorize them all eventually https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaS7yRDK4-Y
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Dec 9, 2020 00:40
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The Bloop posted:P2P or Pushes to Pinafore is the ultimate measure of UI design The Space TV version of Start to Crate.
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Dec 9, 2020 00:46
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the popes toes posted:I keep wanting the show to revisit that federation worshiper that Burnam promoted to Chief Communications Liaison or whatever his title was. That guy is gonna die alone on his Starbase because Michael totally forgot he exists, bet on it.
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Dec 9, 2020 01:51
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Infidelicious posted:My headcanon is that the computer is literally doing everyone's job except the captain, and everyone is there to inform the captain of things. The useless buttons and LCARS are just there to make them feel like they're doing things, That's basically what the episode The Ultimate Computer contemplates.
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Dec 9, 2020 02:18
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Crusader posted:the way star trek bridge crew handled it is pretty fun, they ui hover labels over them like you're supposed to memorize them all eventually There is actually an option to disable the hover labels to go full classic-Trek.
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Dec 9, 2020 02:36
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GABA ghoul posted:Yeah, with the state of AI in Trek, that's the only way I could ever make sense of the whole thing. Most of their technology is probably required to have some manual buttons that function as a make work program. Something like in the Dune universe, but instead of an outright prohibition of automated machines, they just need to have big glowing buttons that have to be regularly pressed by meat sacks. Maybe they also have some kind of mental puzzles or sudokus so people don't get bored while doing it. Or you can watch porn or spaceflix or something. Not altogether implausible, in the real world the space shuttle had one thing that couldn't be done automatically, lowering the landing gear.
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Dec 9, 2020 03:23
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Dec 9, 2020 05:34
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The controls on TNG are fine to me given that they obviously didn't have the ability in 1987 to animate all these 'screens' and it was intended for SD so you couldn't read all the little numbers and labels and details and you'd just be able to assume that they were actually informative and meaningful. I'd love to see an LCARS reconceptualization and redesign that starts with the TNG design style but updates to modern interactivity and detail level.
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Dec 9, 2020 05:38
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One thing that'd be cool for a 24th century show: okay, so having 3D solid holograms on all those background displays on the bridge is expensive to do every shot and to build into everything with good design, so it tends to just be only when in focus or background 3D is just random out-of-focus mess. What you could do, however, is have subtle 3D elements inside the screen, kinda like a 3DS. So the main controls are flat 2D but things like a rotating ship 3D or a starchart or something as just a subtle level of 3D inset into the screen. You'd have LCDs built into the control panel, and you can have a tracker on the camera, and then it's easily possible to real-time render an distorted image to the LCD so that it appear to the camera to be 3D as the camera moves around. We do something similar with eyetracking today, but it's not that effective because eyetracking needs a heavy setup and also we have two eyes. Once the initial cost of setting the system up is done, it wouldn't cost anything on day-to-day shooting or postprocessing, it'd all happen automatically in live-action as you shot. Here's an example of someone doing it it a wiimote in 2007 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw&t=150s MikeJF fucked around with this message at 05:53 on Dec 9, 2020 |
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Dec 9, 2020 05:49
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MikeJF posted:What you could do, however, is have subtle 3D elements inside the screen, kinda like a 3DS. So the main controls are flat 2D but things like a rotating ship 3D or a starchart or something as just a subtle level of 3D inset into the screen. You'd have LCDs built into the control panel, and you can have a tracker on the camera, and then it's easily possible to real-time render an distorted image to the LCD so that it appear to the camera to be 3D as the camera moves around. We do something similar with eyetracking today, but it's not that effective because eyetracking needs a heavy setup and also we have two eyes. Once the initial cost of setting the system up is done, it wouldn't cost anything on day-to-day shooting or postprocessing, it'd all happen automatically in live-action as you shot. This is basically the same principle behind the circular LED walls used on The Mandalorian. For some shots what the wall screen is displaying changes in real time based on the camera position to maintain the fake perspective. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUnxzVOs3rk Skip to 3:35 for a visual example.
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Dec 9, 2020 07:25
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MichiganCubbie posted:I would love if the 32nd Century was just insane, looking like straight up magic to us and to the crew of the Discovery. Remember, this would be like if Vikings in a longboat sailed up to present day Manhattan. They should be completely blown away. One of the issues is, that's a great idea if you're just visiting the 32nd century, but everything I've seen makes me think that it's the permanent new setting, and you need established rules and limits for the show to work.
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Dec 9, 2020 10:04
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One thing I do really like is that the transparent screens on the Disco bridge are all actually showing information, and it’s not all just added in post.
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Dec 9, 2020 10:22
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The_Doctor posted:One thing I do really like is that the transparent screens on the Disco bridge are all actually showing information, and it’s not all just added in post. I know he's wearing lifts for Saru, but I'm never gonna get over just how loving tall Doug Jones is 
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Dec 9, 2020 10:27
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MikeJF posted:Picard should have an evolved look of the 24th century shows. Take what was and create an evolution on it that's still in the same family. Picard looks bad, top to bottom. The Daystrom looked like a season 1 Black Mirror set (this is not a good thing). I don't know why it looked like this, low budget explains some things but not overall aesthetic. There seems to be a real push to make this not look like a Star Trek, which makes me wonder who this show is made for
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Dec 9, 2020 11:18
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echoplex posted:Picard looks bad, top to bottom. The Daystrom looked like a season 1 Black Mirror set (this is not a good thing). I understand the impulse behind it at least. In theory, Picard is a show that takes one of the core characters of Star Trek and tells a story with him that ostensibly takes place out on the fringes of what would be considered the traditional Star Trek universe, so the show should reflect that visually by kind of not looking overmuch like a Star Trek show. Unfortunately it kind of missed the part where when it brushes up against stuff that’s from the traditional core of Star Trek, it should still look like Star Trek, only it kind of... doesn’t.
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Dec 9, 2020 11:53
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echoplex posted:Picard looks bad, top to bottom. The Daystrom looked like a season 1 Black Mirror set (this is not a good thing). Mass Effect. The show is made to rip off Mass Effect, and everything makes sense when you look at it through that lens. The La Sirena's even got the same general hull shape as the Normandy.
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Dec 9, 2020 12:27
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Ah, I'm massively out of the loop on games. Does that explain the uniforms too?
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Dec 9, 2020 13:10
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It's a pity, because there's a lot of mass effect stuff that is very Star Trekky. Mass effect is basically wholesale Syd Mead in a lot of ways, and elements of it can fit pretty well with Star Trek. But they used the bits that don't.
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Dec 9, 2020 13:29
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echoplex posted:Ah, I'm massively out of the loop on games. Does that explain the uniforms too? I hadn't caught that one, but honestly... I'd say possibly. It's not an easy finger-point at a 1:1 rip, but if you tilt your head and squint you can kinda see similar design aesthetics between the Systems Alliance dress uniform and the Picard-era Starfleet uniform around the collar and shoulders.  
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Dec 9, 2020 13:30
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Yeah, no. I’d need a bit more than ‘there are some shoulders and a nehru collar’. The Picard uniforms (both versions) are just are an evolution of the TNG/DS9/VOY aesthetic. That said, I maintain the earlier picard uniform is fugly.
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Dec 9, 2020 13:46
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That uniform looks a lot closer to Discovery's than Picard. Have we seen dress uniforms on Discovery? If we haven't, I'd imagine they look just like that Mass Effect pic.
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Dec 9, 2020 13:50
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enki42 posted:That uniform looks a lot closer to Discovery's than Picard. Have we seen dress uniforms on Discovery? If we haven't, I'd imagine they look just like that Mass Effect pic. We haven't seen an explicit dress uniform but we have seen an admiralty uniform, it has the wide metallic shoulders, captain has metallic shoulders not-quite-as-wide, crew has no metallic shoulders:  What the hell is the face that guy behind Nielsen is making.
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Dec 9, 2020 13:58
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The_Doctor posted:Yeah, no. I’d need a bit more than ‘there are some shoulders and a nehru collar’. The Picard uniforms (both versions) are just are an evolution of the TNG/DS9/VOY aesthetic. That said, I maintain the earlier picard uniform is fugly. They were most definitely ugly and the cut-out black stripe looks silly. enki42 posted:That uniform looks a lot closer to Discovery's than Picard. Have we seen dress uniforms on Discovery? If we haven't, I'd imagine they look just like that Mass Effect pic. Take a look at the regular System's Alliance uniform and compare it with that tactical vest they have in Discovery, it's kinda similar I think. I actually quite like the vest in Discovery, it's a neat little practical touch for away missions. MikeJF posted:What the hell is the face that guy behind Nielsen is making. That's a "Lunch is not sitting well and I badly need to go eject a warp core" face if ever I saw one.
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Dec 9, 2020 14:06
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echoplex posted:Ah, I'm massively out of the loop on games. Does that explain the uniforms too? You have to understand - Picard having anything to do with Mass Effect is a weird goon fixation with no basis in reality, including the guy who wrote the show saying "Sorry but I've never heard of it, should I have?" when asked about it quote:The show is made to rip off Mass Effect, and everything makes sense when you look at it through that lens. The La Sirena's even got the same general hull shape as the Normandy.  
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Dec 9, 2020 15:26
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As if Mass Effect's plot is an entirely original conceit. The Reapers are just the Inhibitors from Alistair Reynold's "Revelation Space" books.
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Dec 9, 2020 15:39
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Seemlar posted:You have to understand - Picard having anything to do with Mass Effect is a weird goon fixation with no basis in reality, including the guy who wrote the show saying "Sorry but I've never heard of it, should I have?" when asked about it Wrong Normandy. Take a good look at the Normandy 2 and drag the bow on the La Sirena out past the engine prongs.
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Dec 9, 2020 15:43
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I know absolutely nothing about Mass Effect, but the La Sirena's design is extremely stock sci-fi. It's probably the thing that looks the least like Star Trek out of any of the series, but it would be perfectly at home in all kinds of other sci-fi things. Put that in an old Wing Commander game and no one would bat an eye.
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Dec 9, 2020 15:57
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