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I personally think that 'when you die, everyone comes back as a zombie because you're already infected' and 'If you're bit, you die' would be more than enough to create endless outbreaks, but you wouldn't get long dead cities full of monsters and I get why that's important.
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Dec 8, 2020 21:37
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Ablative posted:All anyone knows for sure is their SAMs still work. Yeah, all those DMZ defences never went away so as the book says; either they're still living underground, or there is millions more zombies behind those doors waiting to come out.
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Dec 8, 2020 21:46
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Gatto Grigio posted:Any zombie story has to make the assumption that the natural process of decay is somehow delayed, because otherwise the solution to a zombie outbreak is "everyone stay inside for about a week until their muscles have rotted enough that they can no longer move." I do remember a story that latterly had some of the main cast go. Ok if we survive a month we win, cause the summer heat will own the zombies.
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Dec 8, 2020 22:11
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There are so many fundamental ways that zombies have no basis in reality it's better to just say "It's magic" and ignore them because there is absolutely nothing about zombies that works in any way.
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Dec 8, 2020 23:57
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In Bleeding Edge, a cyberpunk game from Sanguine that I was involved in, all cybernetics have the same downside: they reduce your Dexterity. Now, you can always buy your dexterity back up, but... ...Yeah, we just targeted the godstat directly.
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Dec 9, 2020 00:33
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RiotGearEpsilon posted:In Bleeding Edge, a cyberpunk game from Sanguine that I was involved in, all cybernetics have the same downside: they reduce your Dexterity. Now, you can always buy your dexterity back up, but... ...Yeah, we just targeted the godstat directly.
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Dec 9, 2020 00:38
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Tibalt posted:I personally think that 'when you die, everyone comes back as a zombie because you're already infected' and 'If you're bit, you die' would be more than enough to create endless outbreaks, but you wouldn't get long dead cities full of monsters and I get why that's important.
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Dec 9, 2020 00:56
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RiotGearEpsilon posted:In Bleeding Edge, a cyberpunk game from Sanguine that I was involved in, all cybernetics have the same downside: they reduce your Dexterity. Now, you can always buy your dexterity back up, but... ...Yeah, we just targeted the godstat directly. Wait, Sanguine has a cyberpunk game? The Sanguine that made Ironclaw? Really? How have I not heard of this.
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Dec 9, 2020 01:01
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 Cyberpunk RED, Part 11: The Equaliser No art for this post because the art in these two chapters ranges from forgettable to just plain awful, and not in an entertaining way. The gear chapter only really focuses on Night Markets (which we'll get into shortly), but I'm also including two other kinds of stores that appeared in the previous chapter instead for whatever reason. In addition to the Night Markets, the world of 2045 has two other major sources for getting all the goodies you might need: vendits and bodegas. Bodegas are pretty self-explanatory, and Cyberpunk RED includes a table for randomly generating the overall character of any given bodega you might visit. Vendits are basically fancy vending machines that sell almost anything, and they also get a little table for randomly generating the contents of a given vendit. Cyberpunk RED, in case you haven't twigged to it yet, really, really loves random generation tables. On to the Night Markets. Since global shipping is still a complete mess and factories are only coming back online piecemeal, supplies of stuff that would normally be more reliably available in other scifi (and even cyberpunk) settings are much less so. Everything hinges on TEUs of goodies coming in to a given community, whether that's because of a new shipment of goods fresh off the lines of some factory, or an old TEU that was left stranded after the war and has since been salvaged by some enterprising individuals, most places have impromptu markets that pop up when something worthwhile comes along. These are the Night Markets, and they come and go in the blink of an eye, never quite the same from one occurence to the next. Once again, Cyberpunk RED includes a bunch of tables for generating the contents of a given Night Market, running the gamut from food to drugs to clothes to electronics to weapons to cyberware and more. Beyond that, the rest of the chapter is devoted to a full listing of all the game's weapons, armour, cyberware, drugs, and other gear...all of which was printed earlier in the book, sometimes several times previously. I already covered the basics of most of this in previous posts, so there really isn't anything much to say. This book is just terribly laid out; I can see why they wanted to reprint the same goddamn item listings multiple times throughout the book, but it's a bad idea at the end of the day, and just drives up the page count needlessly. About the only difference between the item listings here and elsewhere in the book is that they devote a whole 1-2 sentences to describing each item here, as opposed to the lack of any descriptions in earlier uses of these listings in the book. This chapter also takes the time to include a handy listing of all possible expenses that could come up during the game, including hospital costs and the like, which is the one thing I appreciate. It's always a pain having to look up this kind of thing in the middle of a game, randomly flipping through a chapter's worth of text for the one line that gave a cost for whatever just came up. The only completely new expense here (relative to the rest of the book) is a detailed explanation of the different types of housing in the game, and the mechanical consequences of living either on the street or in a too-crowded home. Besides living on the street and living in a vehicle, the game also includes things like cube hotels, cargo containers, conapts, apartments, penthouses, and mansions (for the wealthiest and most influential of Execs). The game also handily includes something I wish more games would: hustles. Cyberpunk RED assumes that characters don't just sit on their asses during downtime between adventures, and assumes that even between big jobs, the average PC is still working some kind of hustle and trying to make money on the side. For each whole week that a PC has free, they make a randomly determined amount of money, rolling a d6 on a table that's role-specific. The higher their role ability, the more they make. A chart is also included for how much PCs can expect to make by selling off looted gear and the like, and a simple chart showing the average payouts for different types of jobs, for the GM's convenience. The payouts are hilariously terrible, ranging from 500 eb for an "easy" job (protect this VIP with your life; armed resistance is not expected but who knows) to a very generous 2000 eb for a "dangerous" job (sneak into a military facility and blow up its armory, then escape; armed resistance is overwhelming and you will die without luck and major preparation). Really, prices in general are completely messed up in Cyberpunk RED. The devs seem to have gone down a route where they wanted costs to use numbers that are smaller and more approachable for the average person, and also wanted to standardize prices according to general rankings of availability and/or quality. As such, prices for most things range from 100 eb to 5000 eb, with the sole exception of vehicles, which have prices in tens or hundreds of thousands of eb, completely outside the sort of budget pretty much any PC will ever be able to manage in a game run using the sorts of payouts Cyberpunk RED suggests. I've seen this kind of half-assed economic logic before and I do not like it one bit. Really, I expected a lot better than this from veteran game designers, but then again that could go for a lot of things in this book. The GM chapter contains all the things you would expect. Setting mood, establishing themes, encouraging teamwork, managing players effectively, designing encounters, campaigns, and adventures, etc. You've probably seen this countless times before (god knows I have). I'm going to skip all that and instead focus on the most interesting part: how Cyberpunk RED handles character advancement, and how they want GMs to handle it, too. Cyberpunk RED focuses on what it calls "playstyle-based improvement." The GM is expected to basically conduct a simplified personality test for each player, slotting them into one of four archetypes: Warrior, Socializer, Explorer, or Roleplayer. Warriors are combat-oriented players, Socializers are socially-oriented players, Explorers like to poke around the game world, and Roleplayers just like to roleplay their characters. The book includes the test in question, which is a series of four boxes (one for each archetype) filled with action statements associated with it, like "Defeat an enemy in battle" and "Have a picture of your character." Each player picks out the five statements that they find most important, and select the archetype for which they have the most selected statements as their "primary" play style, and the one with the second most selected statements becomes their "secondary" play style. The GM allocates Improvement Points for each player at the end of each session using a table (of course). If the party accomplished its mission that session, IP is determined by how well the group did in finishing the mission and going after its objectives. If the mission was not completed that session, players are instead individually allocated IP based on how well they hewed to the expected objectives/goals of their primary or secondary playstyle, according to the table. Now, I appreciate the desire to accomodate the different playstyles of different kinds of players, but the table just doesn't work because of the huge disconnect between the rankings of different objectives across archetypes. It's going to be easier for someone to join in a battle in the average session for most games than it will be for someone to give a stirring, dramatic speech, to borrow from examples in the table. As for actually spending IP, there are two uses for it: improving or buying new skills, and improving or buying new role abilities. That's it. No methods are given for improving attributes, even though other games using Interlock have had rules for it (like The Witcher, which only came out a couple of years ago and is a lot better edited and designed that Cyberpunk RED, frankly.) Some of the devs have suggested house rules for raising attributes with IP, such as using the role ability advancement scale for it, or using that but doubling the costs, but those are still house rules. I would've expected movement on this sort of thing in the last 30 years, and judging by The Witcher (and Fuzion before it) they're fully capable of having more flexible and capable character improvement rules, but for some reason they just decided to backslide for Cyberpunk RED. It's seriously baffling. And that's it. I'm done reviewing Cyberpunk RED. I was seriously hyped for this game for the past couple of years, because I grew up playing Cyberpunk 2020 and I've been wanting a modern edition of the game ever since, but as much as it hurts for me to say it, this isn't it. There's a useable core here, but playing with it would mean my having to massively houserule a lot of things, starting with Humanity at the very least, and also covering things like the seriously anemic equipment selection and rules, among others. That's also not even touching the setting material, which is peppered with lots of really weird and inexplicable choices that either feel like they were last minute decisions thrown in at the end or just awkwardly crammed in elements that the devs really liked but couldn't squeeze in more organically. And of course there are things that only exist to (poorly) justify mechanics the devs wanted to use, like cyberpsychosis and the NET as it exists in 2045. I was really pumped at the start of this review and now I just want this to end. We're done here. The end.
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Dec 9, 2020 01:02
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Pussy Cartel posted:Wait, Sanguine has a cyberpunk game? The Sanguine that made Ironclaw? Really? How have I not heard of this. Yeah, I am one of the big Sanguine Fans here and I never heard of Bleeding Edge before either.
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Dec 9, 2020 01:20
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Pussy Cartel posted:
Thanks for this review. My copy showed up halfway through and it’s been helpful to get someone else’s perspective on it.
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Dec 9, 2020 01:21
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Aww, you didn't even post the vending machine table, it's one of the few things that actually made me laugh.
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Dec 9, 2020 01:22
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Age of Sigmar Lore Chat: Flesh-Eater Courts This Book Has Many Pictures Of People Eating People  The abhorrants and the mordants that they command all derive from a single source, the very first abhorrant, who was transformed into his state in the Age of Myth. At the time, he was a favored servant of Nagash, a handsome and mighty warrior surrounded by a court of nobles. He was a just and noble ruler, an enforcer of the grim justice of Nagash but just nonetheless. He built many shrines to his god-king and many tombs to honor the dead. He assisted the weak and sick in peaceful transition into the underworlds, and he slew evil tyrants that abused their subjects. He was called many names. He was Sumeros Summerking, he was the Blood Rose Prince, and most of all, he was Ushoran the Handsome, feared and loved. Those peoples that paid homage to Nagash hailed him as a hero, and those who made mockery of the natural order of life and death feared his rage. It is unclear what Ushoran did to anger Nagash. The details are long since lost. Whatever happened, he fell from favor and was cursed with a hideous transformation. He was no longer Ushoran the Handsome, but a horrific monster, shunned even by those who once loved him. Even the empires he had helped hunted him, for he was so terrifying to look at that they could not believe he was, in fact, the Blood Rose Prince. Only his own people remained by his side. Twisted in form, he grew to hate and despise his old master, and he came to blame those who were loyal to Nagash for their lack of support for him. He stalked the nights of Shyish, hunting the servants and subjects of Nagash. He destroyed dozens of the Death God's servitor kingdoms, slaughtering their lords and armies, even their people. He tore their cities down. Obviously, Nagash could not allow his former servant to do this. He ordered his Mortarchs to bring him Ushoran. Mannfred, Neferata and Arkhan required several wars to destroy the last loyalists of Ushoran and capture their king. Still, they managed it. Nagash considered obliterating his wayward servant's soul, but chose instead to trap Ushoran in the prison Shroudcage. It was an immense tower, bound in broken promises and enchanted so its walls would forever reflect lies about the prisoner bound within. Stuck there for years, surrounded by these lies, Ushoran's mind broke. He became as twisted within as he was without. He might have remained trapped in Shroudcage forever, had it not been for Sigmar. In the early Age of Chaos, Sigmar invaded Shyish due to Nagash's betrayal, and during his campaign, his armies sieged and destroyed the fortress that contained Shroudcage. Ushoran escaped in the chaos. Free for the first time in a very long time, Ushoran decided to rebuild his court. He sought out the few survivors of his wars with the Mortarchs, the few remaining loyalists to his old kingdom. He gave them some of his blood - and with it, the madness that had consumed him in the Shroudcage. In his new state, Ushoran truly believed himself to be the old, benevolent lord he once was, not the monster he had truly become. He brought his "kindness" to mortal cities, Nagash's fortresses and Chaos encampments alike, slaughtering and devouring them to feed the bloody hunger that filled him. He became the Carrion King, taking in those mortals who had become cannibal in desperation when he found them - and they were not rare in the Age of Chaos. He felt kinship with them instinctively, and his gifts of blood empowered them and blinded them to the true reality. Many of these servants would eventually go on to found their own courts, and each one is a reflection of the First Court. Even those abhorrants that never met Ushoran can feel those reflections in the blood. The First Court's image, of course, was the original Court of Ushoran - a loyal following of knights and nobles, each of them chivalrous, loyal, just and kind. Some were statesmen, some warriors, but each was a vampire dedicated to the ideals of Ushoran: chivalry, protection of the weak and destruction of the unjust. They were loyal beyond death. Even after Nagash cursed Ushoran with his monstrous form, they refused to abandon him, and they fought to the end against the Mortarchs. Many died, and the survivors remained loyal to their king's memory. Some say it was them who lured Sigmar to the fortress where Ushoran was bound, hoping to free him. Certainly once he escaped Shroudcage, Ushoran gathered them and, though his blood, he spread the madness he had been consumed by within the prison. They became the First Court, the core of his new empire. His bodyguard, Lord Marrowbroth, gathered many mordants to ensure the Carrion King would never be hurt. His spymaster, Baron Gizzard, set the ghouls to patrol the new borders and to seek out any enemy - which, of course, was anyone they saw that was not tainted by the consumption of human flesh as they were. These and the other knights became the first abhorrants, carving out a new empire Shyish before they struck out on their own to spread the ideals of Ushoran, as they had before. Most of the first generation are mysteries, lost to time, madness and the general poor records of the Age of Chaos. Some are believed to still travel as Archregents, the great emperors and overlords of the Flesh-Eaters, and some are said to still fight alongside Ushoran to this day. In the meantime, Archaon struck down Nagash, and while he was not destroyed entirely, his absence allowed Ushoran to flourish. The abhorrants spread, using the realmgates they found to reach many lands. They fought the armies of Chaos, thriving in the broken ruins that were left behind. They turned the masses of starving wretches they found into mordants, and when one army was destroyed it was not hard to find people who were in the circumstances needed to spawn another. Under the madness of their kings, the mordants turned what had been a weakness into a weapon. They went from huddled, starving and desperate men and women who survived by cannibalism into armies of monsters. In all this chaos, the tales of Ushoran...faded. Vanished. His influence grew, his madness grew, but no one could say where he was. Even now, no one is sure if Ushoran still lives or where he might be found, much less what he wants. He might still hate Nagash and seek to unseat him, or he might think himself once more a loyal servant. Certainly many Flesh-Eater armies work alongside the Mortarchs...but not all, and many attack Nagash's forces on sight. The lineage of the abhorrants gets further from Ushoran the further one gets from Shyish. The closest to him remain those who still live in the ruins of Ushoran's ancient kingdom in Shyish. Their madness is stronger than most, likely due to his influence and his ties to the land there. The madness seems to seep into the landscape itself, and it is here that the visions of Ushoran's old life and his old ways are strongest. The further the bloodline gets from him, the more it varies from the vision of Ushoran himself. They are no less insane, but they are not bound by the perfect chivalrous image that Ushoran was so obsessed with. They can come up with their own. Whatever the case, no one left remembers the full story of Ushoran save Nagash. Nagash has neither forgotten nor forgiven, and he would very much like to find his old servant now, in hopes of seizing control over the Flesh-Eaters as a whole. Next time: Life among the blood-hungry
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Dec 9, 2020 02:29
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Pussy Cartel posted:Wait, Sanguine has a cyberpunk game? The Sanguine that made Ironclaw? Really? How have I not heard of this. Night10194 posted:Yeah, I am one of the big Sanguine Fans here and I never heard of Bleeding Edge before either. It turns out that marketing is hard. Sometimes you release a product at like exactly the wrong time, and it vanishes instantly in to the lightless depths of the internet. If either of you want to take a gander at it and toss it on the review pile, feel free. It's PWYW at the moment. Full disclosure, I'm one of the authors. https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/147845/BLEEDING-EDGE-HighTech-LowLife-RolePlay
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Dec 9, 2020 03:56
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Okay, real question. The next post is already written to edit and put up tomorrow, so it's not affected, but: Does anyone actually care about the Red Markets setting enough that I should continue close-ups with what's written? I don't like it, it's a lazy and edgy "america bad, rural bad, techbros good, not!Musk savior of humanity" misery pit. (It's by far not the worst setting I've read though.) It commits the fatal sin of not just being unpleasant, but uninteresting, at length. My love for Red Markets lies solely in its system. I'm not going to just go "skip 100 pages, we're in the mechanics now" but if I stop giving a poo poo about commenting on every idea Stokes et al put in here and follow about the detail level of Cartel's RED posts, then I can probably clear the remainder in another 3 or 4 after that. Less if I collapse the Loss chapterinto one post. If people really want to hear about Recession America and the Loss I'll keep writing as I have. Just getting a feel. Like I said at the start, first long form review and the format trips me up.
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Dec 9, 2020 05:08
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SkyeAuroline posted:Okay, real question. The next post is already written to edit and put up tomorrow, so it's not affected, but:
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Dec 9, 2020 05:15
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I like the Red Markets setting for the feeling it creates at the table, and the little details like zombie IDs being used to confirm bounties. I'm ok with the hundred page lore document getting a quick summary and mentioning whatever details are especially good or bad.
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Dec 9, 2020 05:23
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Pussy Cartel posted:And that's it. I'm done reviewing Cyberpunk RED. I was seriously hyped for this game for the past couple of years, because I grew up playing Cyberpunk 2020 and I've been wanting a modern edition of the game ever since, but as much as it hurts for me to say it, this isn't it. There's a useable core here, but playing with it would mean my having to massively houserule a lot of things, starting with Humanity at the very least, and also covering things like the seriously anemic equipment selection and rules, among others. That's also not even touching the setting material, which is peppered with lots of really weird and inexplicable choices that either feel like they were last minute decisions thrown in at the end or just awkwardly crammed in elements that the devs really liked but couldn't squeeze in more organically. And of course there are things that only exist to (poorly) justify mechanics the devs wanted to use, like cyberpsychosis and the NET as it exists in 2045. Yeah, given how long it took to come out, much like video game equivalent Cyberpunk 2077, it is an unsatisfying throwback while having a few modern touches. I can't honestly see why it has a 400+ page count, feels like it could be shorter. Also, the backsliding and rehashing (like, why are screamsheets still a thing? Newspapers are going extinct or going online and if everyone has an Agent, why are they printing out 'sheets from a dataterm kiosk? Why are dataterms still a thing, phonebooths sure aren't with ubiquitous smartphones?) felt like they could have been excised, with more focused on the newer stuff. Something that I wanted to bring up but didn't discuss in the last review: I heavily dislike the personalization of the corporations through Faces. I would have rather they just give the rundown on the corporation and the market it dominates instead of giving half-page, small-type biographies on someone most player-characters will not have any interaction with save maybe putting them in their crosshairs. What's good with all their lifestyles, family drama, and motivations if a PC is just going to empty all of it onto the hardwood deck of their yacht? It feels like that type of internalized billionaire worship you see with Elon Musk. They feel like something that was added to help generate metaplot. Pussy Cartel posted:We're done here. The end. You need to read "Black Dog".
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Dec 9, 2020 05:33
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Nessus posted:It is really up to you. Personally I think a broad overview would be sufficient, especially if your goal is to get at the system. Someone else can make a second pass later if they really want to get into Pictures for Sad Children: Now with Zombies: The Official Book of the Movie. 
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Dec 9, 2020 05:47
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I said it before, Red Markets' background reads like a lovely leftist answer to Hc Sunt Dracones. I don't think we'd really miss anything if you gave it a broad strokes read.
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Dec 9, 2020 06:04
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SkyeAuroline posted:Okay, real question. The next post is already written to edit and put up tomorrow, so it's not affected, but: I think it's pretty interesting, but you can certainly cut it down if you want.
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Dec 9, 2020 06:10
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SkyeAuroline posted:Okay, real question. The next post is already written to edit and put up tomorrow, so it's not affected, but: Since about 2010 I kinda dgaf about zombie poo poo anymore and having that as the backdrop behind someone soapboxing about their politics would be extremely uninteresting. The mechanics sound much more novel.
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Dec 9, 2020 06:23
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Young Freud posted:omething that I wanted to bring up but didn't discuss in the last review: I heavily dislike the personalization of the corporations through Faces. I would have rather they just give the rundown on the corporation and the market it dominates instead of giving half-page, small-type biographies on someone most player-characters will not have any interaction with save maybe putting them in their crosshairs. What's good with all their lifestyles, family drama, and motivations if a PC is just going to empty all of it onto the hardwood deck of their yacht? It feels like that type of internalized billionaire worship you see with Elon Musk. They feel like something that was added to help generate metaplot. All that poo poo with Faces really reminded me of Silicon Valley billionaire celebrity bullshit, and I couldn't stand it. It felt like the exact opposite of what a game that's supposed to be cyberpunk should focus on, especially one that always focused as much on being rebellious and antisocial as R. Talsorian's Cyberpunk. Young Freud posted:You need to read "Black Dog". I, uh, don't know what that is!
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Dec 9, 2020 06:34
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I got the vibe from that bit that the faces were meant to be figures you could use to put some actual personal poo poo in your story, like the Tessier-Ashpools in Neuromancer and eventually going up to 3Jane. Large business ventures also tend to get heavily associated in terms of their style and flavor (which seems important to the genre) by their CEOs or founders. By writing these individuals up as characters rather than being the Impersonal Forces of the Dialectic, you can shoot them with your cybergun.
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Dec 9, 2020 06:46
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Pussy Cartel posted:Vendits are basically fancy vending machines that sell almost anything, and they also get a little table for randomly generating the contents of a given vendit. THANK YOU FOR USING VALUEREP! (also, thank you for teaching me what a TEU is) quote:Does anyone actually care about the Red Markets setting enough that I should continue close-ups with what's written? I don't like it, it's a lazy and edgy "america bad, rural bad, techbros good, not!Musk savior of humanity" misery pit. (It's by far not the worst setting I've read though.) It commits the fatal sin of not just being unpleasant, but uninteresting, at length. My love for Red Markets lies solely in its system. This doesn't seem very left to me, which is a strange thing to find a in game that's supposedly extremely left. Anyways, if you can manage to do an overview in a single post, then do it. No need to torture yourself over the reviews especially if the real meat of the game, the raison d'etre of the FnF is yet to come. JcDent fucked around with this message at 07:08 on Dec 9, 2020 |
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Dec 9, 2020 06:59
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The faces feel like someone really wanted noble houses politics in the game but wasn't ready to actually commit to that.
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Dec 9, 2020 07:01
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SkyeAuroline posted:Okay, real question. The next post is already written to edit and put up tomorrow, so it's not affected, but: this is a pretty unfair reading of the contents of those chapters, but if you dislike them go ahead and skip ahead
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Dec 9, 2020 07:09
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I haven't read Red Markets because I do not like stuff that is that unhappy but also doesn't have an off switch (like saving the day, taking out the authoritarian big bad, helping people besides yourself and improving their lives, etc.) or some kind of levity valve (the comedy of Paranoia, the quirky take on D&D-likes of WFRP, etc.), but I am curious where you drew the conclusion that the game hates rural people and loves not!Musk. I know a lot of lib-leftist discourse revolves around wanting to hurt people in Red states for being racist, homophobic, etc., and pledging their love to techbros and egotistical assholes who really aren't into leftism so much as using it as a platform to self-aggrandize, so I wouldn't be SURPRISED if the book was like that, but I AM surprised there's apparently disagreement on whether or not it is like that. I want your thoughts more than I want the setting info.
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Dec 9, 2020 07:17
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Pussy Cartel posted:All that poo poo with Faces really reminded me of Silicon Valley billionaire celebrity bullshit, and I couldn't stand it. It felt like the exact opposite of what a game that's supposed to be cyberpunk should focus on, especially one that always focused as much on being rebellious and antisocial as R. Talsorian's Cyberpunk. Yeah, it feels you might hear about these folks but, given that Cyberpunk is supposed to be somewhat low-level street action like Streets Of Fire, as Pondsmith intended, you're more likely to deal with the lower echelon and middle management and not some suit on the board. Both CP2020 and Shadowrun had rather involved metaplots with their high level muckity-mucks, but you usually found all about that in supplements, not in the main book. The main book should give you a basic idea of who these guys are, what's their reach and angle, and some internal politics that the players may end up getting involved in. Nessus posted:I got the vibe from that bit that the faces were meant to be figures you could use to put some actual personal poo poo in your story, like the Tessier-Ashpools in Neuromancer and eventually going up to 3Jane. Large business ventures also tend to get heavily associated in terms of their style and flavor (which seems important to the genre) by their CEOs or founders. By writing these individuals up as characters rather than being the Impersonal Forces of the Dialectic, you can shoot them with your cybergun. Disagree, but it's more a personal opinion: going against a cyberpunk corporation should be like fighting an Elder God. They've got their cultists, loyal adherents that follow edicts from up the hierarchy to gain power and influence. They could be uniformed agents or some conspirator that is close to you, having been paid their seven pieces of silver. The chief executives, that's the high priests who guide the will of their God Corporation on Earth. Anyone...human is eventually disposable and replaceable. You can fight the God Corporation, but that only gives small victories against them (which is maybe enough). On the large, they're not something that you can't deal with physically, you have to develop a plan in order to completely defeat them. And you sure don't want to gain their notice. Pussy Cartel posted:I, uh, don't know what that is! It's the short fiction at the back of the book. Anyway, I found it a bit pandering, with the Cyber 6 being based off IRL disability and prosthetic advocates and activists. I also noticed that the group merely escort the bomb, most of their obstacles are dealt with by connections made by someone else off=camera. And, of course, the big reveal that it's not really a bomb, but a cryotube containing Johnny Silverhand, because they realized Johnny was going to be in 2077, just didn't realize how it's pretty early, but 2077 Johnny is basically a fork of Silverhand on a chip that the character obtains and he's not really there, just an intrusive image of a copy of a dead man directing the player character
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Dec 9, 2020 07:24
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Young Freud posted:Disagree, but it's more a personal opinion: going against a cyberpunk corporation should be like fighting an Elder God. They've got their cultists, loyal adherents that follow edicts from up the hierarchy to gain power and influence. They could be uniformed agents or some conspirator that is close to you, having been paid their seven pieces of silver. The chief executives, that's the high priests who guide the will of their God Corporation on Earth. Anyone...human is eventually disposable and replaceable. You can fight the God Corporation, but that only gives small victories against them (which is maybe enough). On the large, they're not something that you can't deal with physically, you have to develop a plan in order to completely defeat them. And you sure don't want to gain their notice.
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Dec 9, 2020 07:34
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I'm responding to you directly because your quote is most relevant but this is kind of touching on everyone's commentary.TK_Nyarlathotep posted:I haven't read Red Markets because I do not like stuff that is that unhappy but also doesn't have an off switch (like saving the day, taking out the authoritarian big bad, helping people besides yourself and improving their lives, etc.) or some kind of levity valve (the comedy of Paranoia, the quirky take on D&D-likes of WFRP, etc.), but I am curious where you drew the conclusion that the game hates rural people and loves not!Musk. The "loves not!Musk" bit is easy to explain. Austin Palbicke gets a full 9 pages dedicated to his biography and his Ubiq project, and it's constantly cited as the only reason survivors can survive, the Loss would have collapsed except Palbicke, etc etc, world is saved by Palbicke's indestructible, immune-to-malfunction, data-transmission-mechanics-defying free-of-charge worldwide balloon internet and his literal Galt's Gulch that is now held up as the best and brightest enclave in the entire Loss. Join that with Palbicke, who never touched a computer until seventh grade, immediately "hack[ing] the school's firewall to enroll in a MOOC offered by Yale", constant extolling of techbro "goals" bullshit, the loving algorithms Christ almighty how did this dude apparently write literal magic several times... The entire section on Palbicke and Ubiq is the exact same sort of "Elon Musk is a visionary genius who's personally responsible for every Tesla, SpaceX, etc development that's ever happened and is the savior of the future of mankind" poo poo Muskites spew everywhere, except Palbicke doesn't have any apartheid emerald mine money. The "gently caress rural people" bit is, honestly, not what I should have put it as (having reviewed to find specific examples), so let me be more accurate; Stokes never misses a chance to take a dig at Republicans, Libertarians, and really anyone that isn't lib-left as you put it, the whole way through. "Libertarian preppers" get their own faction put on the same level of awful as slavers and Typhoid Marys. So on. It gets tiring, especially with the limited cast of named figures consisting of "reasonable, well-rounded Ubiq crew members from Galt's Gulch; Trump-meets-Reagan incompetent President Hunter backed by Unite the Right types that got their own art piece; and rogue army officer Pappa Doc who has no details whatsoever and barely even counts". Nobody else matters, looks like. I'm not going back and editing it in the prior post, but narrowing down/refining that take is necessary on my part in future discussion. edit: on reflection now that I'm actually awake, i was probably pulling this specific thought from the Ubiq section too in part, his rural hometown gets painted as a shithole for anyone with promise, aka any budding stemlord, because of poor funding and government. it gets tangentially acknowledged elsewhere. Stokes' writing in the sections on America and economics/politics reads to me as a kind of paternalistic dismissal of people in red states (really just Americans in general) as just not knowing any better and voting against their interests when he's not trying to say they're all KKK supporters and Proud Boys; I take that personally, having lived in a red state my entire life. even with the events of the intervening three years from publication. A little fried mentally considering it's 1 AM but hopefully that clarifies. The latter bit is inaccurate on my part, though I wouldn't go so far as to say it's not "gently caress non-libleft". SkyeAuroline fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Dec 9, 2020 |
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Dec 9, 2020 07:59
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I feel like it would be more thematically consistent if the zombie apocalypse was proceeding apace, infrastructure damage breaking the internet down, etc. The US government has to pick one zany billionaire techbro to throw all their efforts behind to restore and maintain the internet, so they pick the genius guy with the magical balloon relay system that has absolutely no downsides. They give him an unlimited budget and wait for results while abandoning all other telecom projects. Then a few weeks after deployment the whole balloon system is rendered inoperable by a combination of bad luck, poor design, and cost-cutting manufacturing. Austin Palbicke skips out of the US before the government can gently caress him up, and he is eventually killed by his own security guards on his secret sex island in the Caribbean. The time and resources spent on his scam project cannot be recovered and the world is left a slightly worse place.
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Dec 9, 2020 09:32
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The Smoking Ruin Part 8: Let’s Play Acts 2 and 3 Soon after the party starts paddling the canoe down the Creek-Stream to Duck Point, it starts pouring rain. Doaivu points out that the woods near the edge of the Colymar lands are known to contain broo, so there’s nothing left for the party to do other than keep paddling. Treya sings songs of adventure to keep everyone’s spirits up, and in the bow Gore and Gash start spear-fishing. Every time one of them spears a new fish, Shufrin takes it from them, holds it by the head, and bites off the entire body before tossing the leftover head to the successful trollkin. Occasionally one of the trollkin misses catching the head, and it falls to the floor of the boat where Doaivu’s direwolf Ceb snatches it up before the trollkin can recover it. The rain has let up by mid-afternoon when they finally come within sight of Duck Point. Curiously, they paddle right past a blue dragonewt who is floating down the river on a log, though they suppose anything a dragonewt does is curious. After climbing out of the canoe, Ceb immediately shakes himself dry, wetting the entire party around him. Treya starts to laugh at the sight of them, and I should mention here that Treya’s laugh is by far the least attractive thing about her. It’s loud, harsh, monotone, and something like a dog’s baraking. It echoes out across the river and causes something of a commotion with the dragonewt, who immediately begins yelling “Thinala yip yip” and paddling over. Hearing her grandmother’s name, she runs to the edge of the dock and helps the dragonewt off his log and onto the docks, where the two begin conversing in Auld Wyrmish. Though none of the party know the language, they can all tell from the pallor that falls over Treya’s face that whatever the dragonewt is telling her, it isn’t good. Even Shufrin can tell, and she’s still not that experienced at reading humans. The dragonewt then breaks off from his conversation with Treya and approaches each of the party in turn, saying something that sounds like “Ate One Man” or “At One Meant” before leaving. Discussing it as a group, they figure out that the dragonewt was trying to say the word “Atonement.” Shufrin adopts a very motherly demeanour and is slowly able to coax out of Treya some of the details of her discussion with “Four Steps Blue,” as she names him, namely that he said the Ruins are very dangerous and that something horrible happened to Thinala there. The group decides to ask around Duck Point about the Ruins and hear some interesting stuff. The Ducks know that their allies the Centaurs believe there to be a holy site to Arachne Solara somewhere within the Ruins in the form of an ancient spring that produces ink instead of water. They also think that Korol Kandoros is buried there, though no one has ever seen his tomb. The locals tell them that the best way to get to the ruins and back within the week is to head directly west through beast valley, and that the Centaurs won’t likely bother them so long as the party is peaceful. The Arachne Solara rumor reminds Zarlangar about his shamanic mentor Keronorl the Deepsong, who is charged with keeping the spirits of the Wild Temple pacified so that the Beastmen may worship there as part of the Grazelander’s ancient treaty with the Beastmen. Zarlangar tells the party about his teacher, and says that should Keronorl require Zarlangar’s services, he is duty bound to obey. Since the party will be passing just north of the Wild Temple on their route, he asks permission of the group to make a detour so that he may check in Keronorl. The party has around two days wiggle room before they risk missing the Ernalda Holy Day, so they all decide to accompany him to the Wild Temple.  The middle red line is the path the party will be taking, though Zarlangar’s request means they’ll follow the Creek-Stream down to the Wild Temple and disembark there Piling back in the canoe, the group makes one last leg of the journey paddling down the Creek-Stream, though Treya has become much quieter and no longer sings in time with the paddling. While pulling the canoe onto the banks of the river the sun is just descending below the horizon, but in the fading evening light Zarlangar and Oraneva still manage to pick out the distant shape of a Dream Dragon, circling high above the Wild Temple to the west. Doiavu feels a lump of anxiety form in the pits of his stomach and the back of his throat, but manages to press on regardless. Keronorl lives on the very edge of the Wild Temple, in a small tent around which is hung many different fetches, dreamcatchers, and even a string of local game that’s been dressed. Shufrin manages to guide the party through the last stretch in the dark, and they approach a modest fire that has an elderly man seated next to it, smoking a pipe. Keronorl is shirtless in the evening chill, and welcomes the party to his fire. He says that he saw them coming in the smoke, and they are welcome to spend the night around his tent and speak business in the morning. The next morning, Zarlangar takes a walk through the Wild Temple with Keronorol, telling his mentor of his adventures in Esrolia, his trip to Sartar, and the current task that he’s on. Keronorl is not surprised at any of the stories, he explains he’s already seen much of it happen, and he also says that he can help Zarlangar once their rounds are done. Keronorl is having trouble of late with a particularly aggressive spirit called the Spirit That Kills With Its Eyes, and Zarlangar is duty bound to help him. Keronorl begins to sing a song that commands the malfeasant spirit to manifest, and in the shade of a nearby menhir a human torso with eyes for nipples and a gaping mouth on its stomach begins to form. The three figures engage in what appears, from the outside, to be an elaborate ritual song and dance, but what in the spirit world is a pitched battle between their consciousnesses. The spirit is eventually subdued, but as a spiteful parting shot it launches actual, physical darts from its eyes, which surprise Zarlangar, and he’s unable to dodge. Thus he ends the combat around noon both mentally drained and with a nasty scratch on his arm. Keronorl then instructs Zarlangar to gather the party at the center of the temple, where he begins a throat song that warbles up into the sky, where the great green Dream Dragon hears it, and descends to the earth. Doaivu’s knees start to tremble, but his honor and his pride (honor passion and air rune) prove stronger than his fear. Keronorl states that they may ask one question of the great Ozgamestus. Oraneva decides to ask it what “atonement” is. Ozgamestus responds in a bellowing voice that rolls across the hills “when ten and five return to the great egg, atonement will be fulfilled,” then flaps its great wings and returns to the sky, buffeting the party with huge blasts of air. The party stand in stunned silence for a minute, before discussing what it could possibly mean. They come up blank, and figure that without seeing the Smoking Ruin itself, the dragon’s words will remain a mystery. They think Keronorl for his help, and depart. The Wild Temple is barely behind them when a group of horse riding Orlanthi gallop in from the East and ride in front of the party. Their leader reads off all their names, and says that they have been ordered by Queen Leika to halt their expedition and return to Clearwine. Now, there’s few things Orlanthi enjoy more than legal disputes, and Oraneva steps up to the plate on this one. She goes down the list of party members and declares that none of them are under the command of Leika- she and Shufrin are sworn in the service of Samastina, Zarlangar is a Grazelander who they’ve hired on, Doiavu obeys Prince Kallyr, and while Treya is half Colymar she is legally a citizen of Ezel, and therefore also under Samastina’s command. The argument lasts for around an hour, but with Doaivu piping in to supply the relevant Sartarite laws and practices, the riders are forced to concede that Leika’s command is in fact illegal. However, they respond that should the party return alive from the Ruins that they are to report back to Queen Leika before Daravala Chan. The party agree to this- the local queen certainly can overrule the deputy earth priestess- and the riders depart back to the East to inform Leika. The rest of the day and much of the next day is spent crossing through Beast Valley. The morning of their second day in the valley, Doiavu manages to spot the fact that they’re being followed by a group of centaurs. Back in Duck Point, the party heard that the Beastmen seem to have some knowledge of the ruins, so they hail the patrol and make signs of the Harmony rune, to indicate their peaceful intent. The centaurs approach, and their leader, a woman by the name of Dappled Light, tells the party that they have safe passage through beast valley, so long as they do nothing to disturb the land. She makes a point to stare at Shufrin, who gives Gore and Gash a light prod with her heavy mace and makes them spit out a vole or two. Shufrin then rolls a special success on her man rune and manages to pick up on the fact that Dappled Light is singling her and her spawn out due to some implicit biases against trolls, and is quite offended. She demands Dappled Light explain her hatred of trolls, and Dappled Light says that she lost family to a troll warlord named Vamargic Eye-Necklace. Shufrin knows the name- he used to be the chief warlord for the Only Old One- but as she explains to Dappled Light, Vamargic was exiled by Ezkankekko for being too violent. Therefore, she reasons, Vamargic should not be held up as an example for the Uz, and his spirit must be suffering in the Hurtplace. Dappled Light laughs, and says that Shufrin is more right than she knows- Vamargic’s shade lives on, lurking the Smoking Ruins and making jewelry out of the flesh of those who enter. Shufrin counters by saying that she is currently heading to the Smoking Ruins to put his soul to rest and right the wrongs that have been done there. Dappled Light is intrigued by this, and her interest increases when Doaivu pulls out the map he got from Hastur’s and asks if she’s ever heard of Makes Scratches. Dappled Light knows her clan, and coos over the map, showing it to the other centaurs in turn. Dappled Light points out a small dot outside the walls, and tells the adventurers not to disturb the monument that the Beastmen have left to her grandmother and the other fallen Beastmen there, and ends the meeting by saying that if they can achieve Shufrin’s aims then they will become lifelong friends of the centaurs.  The Four Gifts Tribe are good people. Crossing over the Orlmarn hills the party officially enters the Grazelands. The plume of smoke rising from the Ruins is faintly visible on the horizon. As they descend the hills into Hiia’s valley, they cross paths with a group of three riders with four horses. Zarlangar can tell from the leader’s tattoos that he is a Sun Lord, as well as a member of the Gold Bow society that Zarlangar belongs to. The two exchange secret signs, and introductions begin in tradetalk. Oxus is the sun lord’s name, he is the chief of the Four Gifts Clan; at his side is his lovely wife is Andretta- second cousin to the Feathered Horse Queen; and the aged woman behind them is Oxus’ mother, the esteemed Gedua All-seer. Zarlangar can sense some magic at work, and flipping on spirit sight he can see that the fourth horse, though saddle-less and bridle-less, is being ridden by the ghost of a man who appears to have died in his late 20’s. The party all introduce themselves, and Treya kneels before Andretta and kisses her robe, giving her respects to the Feathered Horse Queen. Oranetta, being the curious sort, asks what the four gifts are. Andretta groans and rolls her eyes as Gedua launches into a song about the clan’s founding, and as the song continues her horse begins to glow, then stand on two legs, then even begins to sing along, harmonizing with Gedua in a lower register. Gedua’s song details three of the four gifts and the circumstances in which they were received: King Ironhoof gave them an iron spear, which Oxus is currently bearing (Shufrin noticed this from far off and is still nervous about its presence); they took the second gift themselves, ash from the Smoking Ruin; they then gifted this ash to the dryads in the woods to the west in exchange for the third and fourth gifts. The third gift is a sacred elm tree which they take wood from to make the Golden Bows of the Gold Bow society, and the fourth gift was a secret given only to the men of the clan. Oxus asks the party where they’re headed, and tries to warn them away from the Smoking Ruin when he hears it’s their destination. He can see they won’t be persuaded against it though, and invites them all to visit “when their eyes stop burning.” Next: The ruins themself. Nanomashoes fucked around with this message at 09:27 on Dec 11, 2020 |
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Dec 9, 2020 10:33
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Skellybones posted:I feel like it would be more thematically consistent if the zombie apocalypse was proceeding apace, infrastructure damage breaking the internet down, etc. The US government has to pick one zany billionaire techbro to throw all their efforts behind to restore and maintain the internet, so they pick the genius guy with the magical balloon relay system that has absolutely no downsides. They give him an unlimited budget and wait for results while abandoning all other telecom projects.
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Dec 9, 2020 10:55
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SkyeAuroline posted:I'm responding to you directly because your quote is most relevant but this is kind of touching on everyone's commentary. yeah i think this is an uncharitable reading of the material in question. the reason that palbicke gets 9 pages to himself is that gnat is his former employee and clearly thought a lot of him but it never gets into the hero worship you're talking about here. and there are even parts of this section where she dismissively talks about some of the shadier poo poo they did, like when she disclaims responsibility for exploiting contract workers because they followed the letter of the law. i can think of several sections in the book where gnat expresses admiration for groups like the police and the cia that reveal her true nature. and the second narrator, banhammer, is explicitly a fascist who works with the moths only out of convenience. gnat is not an unbiased observer here, but she is also not particularly left either. the whole setting section is about identifying the material causes of the collapse and then using that as a springboard to talk about why the blight hit as hard as it did, but gnat and the other characters depicted are still active participants in the carrion economy with no particular designs on building something better. the book has an anti-capitalist streak, but the conclusion it comes to is that the forces of capital are strong enough to adapt to the worst disaster in history without really losing too much in the process. its a bleak vision, for sure, but also a realistic one (leaving aside the magic zombies).
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Dec 9, 2020 15:33
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After several goings backwards and forwards, she was forced to bring him the key. Bluebeard, having very attentively considered it, said to his wife, “Why is there blood on the key?” “I do not know,” cried the poor woman, paler than death. —Perrault  Bluebeard's Bride is an investigative horror game built on Powered by the Apocalypse for 3-4 players developed by Magpie Games, and strongly influenced by the fairy tale it gets its name from. Designed specifically to be run as a one-shot, it uses the same basic story structure: The Bride is left alone in a massive estate full of various locked rooms and the keys to unlock them, filled with strange and suspicious servants, while her minder Bluebeard is away. She explores the various rooms of the house, and is continually presented with horrors and evidence of her minder's misdeeds and the fate of her predecessors. Eventually, she makes a choice whether to betray Bluebeard's decree, or trust him. Neither tend to end well for the Bride. The players play as aspects of the Bride's psyche, trading off control over her actions and influencing her path through the rooms. Details and setting can be tweaked and changed. That's a continuing theme through the work: Horror through the denial of agency. This isn't a common way to do it in roleplaying games, and for good reason I think, but I think there's also something very compelling and even liberating about the possibility here. I think it also loops back to the themes of "feminine horror" that the authors wish to center, and that of a woman's experiences. It's extremely heavy stuff, and I'll be providing a lot of content warnings when certain topics come up, and will discuss a bit more in-depth what the book says about this (as well as some supplemental stuff from interviews with the authors I found) and experiences by those who played it. Needless to say, it's not a game for everyone, but I do think it's a game worth discussing and taking a look at. There are two particular reasons I felt compelled to write an extended review on this game. First was for the theme above, and how it expresses it through game mechanics. Most games designed in the shell of Powered by the Apocalypse focus on delivering narrative agency to players and empowering them through their moves. Bluebeard's Bride breaks a lot of the expected way of doing things, and the Groundskeeper (the narrator/MC equivalent) can outright narrate the Bride's actions and feelings to a certain extent. The "Sisters" of the Bride (the players) can do what they can to guide or help her, but the ability of the Bride to change the world around her is minimal at best. On one hand, this feeds into the inimical horror of the setting, and the tragic fairy tale about to play out. On the other, it tends to leave one thinking, "What can I even do?" I want to examine whether it succeeds at threading the needle, and how it might translate technique-wise to horror in other tabletop games. The other is the sheer artistry of it. I picked up this game on an impulse at GenCon in 2018, pretty soon after its first print run, because I saw the cover and immediately recognized it as the work of Rebecca Yanovskaya, whom I adore. She provides much of the art for the book (as well as the supplements) and overall defines its core aesthetic, which I think is really great for establishing the game and what to expect going forward. I might share some pictures of the physical copy I have if I think it might put across just how beautiful the production value is, but I think this goes beyond just the medium to the content itself. With a few exceptions (which we'll touch on), the prose, layout, and presentation all work extremely well at setting the mood, and playing the game itself, I think, could lend itself to a unique artistic expression.  The introduction from the book, showing the general layout. The book's pages are almost square, though with the spine it is wider than it is tall, and a rather slim volume all told, at about 130 pages. It's also a game that has a lot of rave reviews, but it's difficult, in my experience, to really find people who have had much experience playing or running it. I think a lot of the critical love is warranted, but I think a fair amount paper over some very real problems with the actual running of the game and points of improvement. I also think some of the narrative/authorial voice the book uses isn't entirely to its benefit. A disclosure: I've never been able to play in or run a game of Bluebeard's Bride, so a lot of what I'll have to discuss is in the abstract, or drawn from interviews and actual plays I've found elsewhere. I came close in 2019 around Halloween in getting a group together but it fell apart, and then the pandemic happened and has kept me from my usual haunts. This is a game that I do not think would translate well to any medium other than in-person tabletop, for specific reasons we'll get into down the line, and it demands a group that is familiar with, or at least trusts, each other, so I've never run it online either. Maybe down the line I'll give it a shot (you'd have to make some changes though) with a group over Discord or the like, as a culmination of this F&F review, but I just wanted to make a note before we get started that I haven't really experienced it as intended, and I get the impression from talking to others that it's a difficult experience to have in the first place.
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Dec 9, 2020 17:02
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I'm following this, because Bluebeard's Bride is one of those RPGs I DO NOT loving GET AT ALL. Why would you want to hang out with people and take a walking tour of some hosed up evil dude's rape castle? I've never heard of any points of interaction besides, like, something similar to the Lore Ghosts in Little Hope, where you find the thing and speculate something horrible happened, and then move on. Even inhabiting the brainspace of the game gives me the fuckin willies. I'm interested in seeing what other people think.
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Dec 9, 2020 18:27
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Young Freud posted:Yeah, it feels you might hear about these folks but, given that Cyberpunk is supposed to be somewhat low-level street action like Streets Of Fire, as Pondsmith intended Every Cyberpunk adventure should end with a sledgehammer fight.
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Dec 9, 2020 18:30
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TK_Nyarlathotep posted:I'm following this, because Bluebeard's Bride is one of those RPGs I DO NOT loving GET AT ALL. Why would you want to hang out with people and take a walking tour of some hosed up evil dude's rape castle? I've never heard of any points of interaction besides, like, something similar to the Lore Ghosts in Little Hope, where you find the thing and speculate something horrible happened, and then move on. Even inhabiting the brainspace of the game gives me the fuckin willies. I'm interested in seeing what other people think. Some people really want to play a fainting lady in danger.
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Dec 9, 2020 18:31
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wiegieman posted:Some people really want to play a fainting lady in danger. Ah do declayuh!
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Dec 9, 2020 18:41
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