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Literally A Person
Jan 1, 1970

Picnic Princess posted:

It IS lame. That's where half my fuckin rage over it all comes from.

Well that at least makes me feel a little better.

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Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised.
Feels like the whole generation's had it hammered into them to be complete doormats for anything resembling an authority figure.

Xlorp
Jan 23, 2008


Ghost Leviathan posted:

Feels like the whole generation's had it hammered into them to be complete doormats for anything resembling an authority figure.
From what I gather that was all they had too. Some families grenade when an age cohort collectively rejects the bullshit patterns they see and strike out on their own, and rinse and repeat. I marveled at other families I met through school friends who invited me to some of their own holiday gatherings. They were all different in the details, and had their particular dramas, and there was usually a palpable absence of malice or fear in the interactions.

Poo In An Alleyway
Feb 12, 2016



Sitting Here posted:

The nail in the coffin was when my dad tried to convince me that I wasn't his biological daughter. Because he wanted to gently caress me. It was revolting. Take out your trash early and often, people. I'll feel a lot safer if/when I ever find out he's dead.

:wtc: Also serious congratulations for getting out of that and seeing the woods for the trees IRT which parent was the nutty one.

Lieutenant Dan
Oct 27, 2009

Weedlord Bonerhitler

BrigadierSensible posted:

I agree. Also note that they don't say why the kids are mad at them, (apart from the daughter calling them out on their homophobia).

What I read is that these parents are always going on about "You could have been a lawyer, you were so bright in highschool. You were such a handsome boy, but now you are fat and marrried to someone we disapprove of. A barista? You had so much potential." And whilst they say they never offered money, I bet they do all the time in passive and condescending ways. Coz their big idea is to buy stuff for their kids, who seem to be doing OK and living, whilst not luxurious, but normal lives.

My mom does this, I've gotten the "you used to be so happy and you excelled" speech a gazillion times, which is nuts because I was so balls-to-the-wall crazy as a teenager I ended up being admitted to the ol' psych ward and almost failed high school. Which she conveniently forgets, and also blames me for :haw: She likes to passive-aggressively offer to buy me dresses (I'm a trans dude and have been out of the closet for more than ten years).

The problem is, I'm doing really well/normal as an adult, I have an awesome job in my field and a graduate degree and Sleep In A Big Bed With My (future) Wife, but she literally ignores/"forgets" this stuff so she can repeat her weird little narrative. Like, I'll be telling a fun work story to my family, then she'll interrupt with "Job? What job? You don't have a job", then I'll have to remind her that I DO have a job (???). She keeps telling me to apply for COVID unemployment but I keep telling her I can't, because I'm loving employed (???????). I actually got a little worried about her and talked to my dad about her possibly *actually* losing her poo poo/early-onset alzheimer's type stuff, but he seems pretty convinced she's just being a dick or not listening to me when I talk. I'm kind of unsure about that, though.

Thanks for listening to my poo poo, goons. I hope you're all having an awesome week so far. :unsmith:

The Breakfast Sampler
Jan 1, 2006


Literally A Person posted:

I wish it were that simple. I just can't stop feeling guilty. It sucks lol.


I'll certainly keep that in mind. Thanks.

This actually sucks - I feel bad about that because I've kinda been there. All these weird, bad situations are different. But a lot of people will probably tell you that you owe her nothing, and so on, but it is as hard as hell to not want the affection of your parents, or wish that they were better people, or not try to help them at the end for yourself, even if it's difficult. Even if they don't deserve it.

If I could tell you anything useful, it would be to just do what's best for you (which is totally rote and meaningless.) But! If you stay the hell away from it, long enough, it will resolve itself. Without damaging you. Eventually. And you don't need to feel guilty about it.

SulfurMonoxideCute
Feb 9, 2008

I was under direct orders not to die
🐵❌💀

After my posts yesterday I ended up really sad. Just feeling heartache and literally grieving. I was so sad about all my lost opportunities and how much I was driven into withdrawal and isolation due to how I was treated. My husband could tell something was off, so we had a long conversation about how my decision to stay permanently estranged was the correct one.

It kind of hit differently to say it out loud yesterday than before, previously I said it with a smile and it was rooted in anger and almost revenge. Yesterday it felt like I actually resigned myself to let it go. It felt sadder and more serious.

I have always been conflict avoidant and a people pleaser, and my fear if they were back in my life would be that they'd use the same manipulation tactics as before and any progress I've made to be a more self-assured, positive and happy person would start to crumble away and I'd end up the same mess as I was before. Yesterday was kind of a pivitol moment from "they're big stupid jerks who pissed me off, I don't like having their bad attitudes in my life" to "I have no choice but to do this for my own self-preservation."

Pookah
Aug 21, 2008

🪶Caw🪶





Picnic princess, if it is any help at all, I've seen many of your posts and been so inspired and strengthened by how you've managed to deal with your awful family troubles. gently caress knows, none of this is easy, but your courage and strength is loving inspiring. You're not required to do anything except look after yourself of course, but I just felt you should know you are a brave and powerful person and I'm rooting for you <3

Literally A Person
Jan 1, 1970

Pookah posted:

Picnic princess, if it is any help at all, I've seen many of your posts and been so inspired and strengthened by how you've managed to deal with your awful family troubles. gently caress knows, none of this is easy, but your courage and strength is loving inspiring. You're not required to do anything except look after yourself of course, but I just felt you should know you are a brave and powerful person and I'm rooting for you <3

:yeah:

Axqu
Nov 28, 2016

I'm a hot bitch angel named Panty. And no matter what anyone says,
I DO WHAT I FUCKING WANT!
Better now. Thanks goons. Big breakthrough in therapy. Good times.

How do y'all deal with ex-family members trying to reach out? About 3ish years ago my mother (main abuser) tried to contact me through the only friend I was allowed to have when I visited her as a kid. With her in the room. I do not know how she expected that to go. Former friend tried to sell me on the whole "your mother is such a sweet person" narrative, and when that didn't work, she went for the guilt trip.

FF: "Your mom told me that she'd love to reconcile and she would love to reach out to you, but she hasn't because she thinks you wish she was dead. I know you don't actually think that way, do you?"

Me: "She knows me so well after all these years because that is EXACTLY what I think, and in fact I'm a little disappointed that's not why you called."

FF: "...oh."

I felt good saying it. Because it's true. I felt empowered, happy, excited, and whole. I felt like I finally had grieved the mother I wanted to have and was able to let a lot of the narrative she pushed go. I was finally finally able to love myself enough to realize that what she did was beyond the pale, full stop, utterly unforgivable no matter how much she claims to improve. I was able to affirm that I deserved none of it, and nothing and no-one gets to demand I absolve her of any responsibility. Nothing and no-one gets to demand that i lie or make myself small, ever again, for the comfort of my tormentor. Nothing and no-one got to demand of me that i take 'the high road' so that my abuser has closure and is absolved of her guilt while I have to be calm and philosophical about her choosing to deliberately break me. Which she told me, in words, she was doing.

I feel no guilt, no fear, and no shame for what I said. That doesn't make me a bad, immoral, unkind, or ungracious person in ANY way. It means I have self-respect and a moral compass; some acts, no matter how sick the person claims to be, no matter how much healing they claim to have done, are utterly irredeemable. Just because they were perpetrated against me doesn't make them less irredeemable.

Anyone who suggests that forgetting the abuse entirely is necessary to healing, or that feeling chronic emotional pain from psychological damage an abuser chose to inflict is somehow 'choosing to give them power,' is an rear end in a top hat full stop. I'd argue that having anger means you're less under the abusers control and less afraid of your own feelings/ that playing Pollyanna sunshine about it means they have way more space in your head in a fear way, but that's just how it worked for me. I only started feeling the righteous fury when I started to break the programming.

Sorry. Couple dumbass posts in the r/r thread got me real heated. "Forgive them for your own sake!" Nah fucko, continuing to blithely accept my own treatment at the hands o a monster isn't healthy for me, it's convenient for you and condescending besides. "They're living rent free in your head!" Nah poo poo-for-brains, allowing her to tell me I shouldn't feel angry or upset at my treatment WAS her space in my head, and YOU are trying to rebuild her place after I thoroughly razed the foundations by telling me to sit down and calmly smile. You can live well AND feel rage. gently caress.

Axqu fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Dec 10, 2020

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard

Picnic Princess posted:


It kind of hit differently to say it out loud yesterday than before, previously I said it with a smile and it was rooted in anger and almost revenge. Yesterday it felt like I actually resigned myself to let it go. It felt sadder and more serious.


This makes sense. You're not only losing the lovely relationship you had with them, but also the hypothetical good relationship that you could have had, or should have had. You are pretty obviously a kind-hearted person and I have to imagine that if they had, like, been struck by lightning and it rewired them to realize how awful they'd been, that if they had made real honest amends and proven over time that they could be trusted, that you could maybe have a better relationship, eventually. I think that distant, faint theoretical hope is normal- maybe, maybe, someday they could change and you could trust them.

Giving up that hope hurts. To realize that they're never going to change and be a person you can trust and love. That that is a family relationship you're just never going to have, not even a limited, later-in-life one.


About a year ago my wife and I were driving home from my parents place and we were commiserating about how bizarre and incomprehensible and cold my mom is. I was laughing and agreeing, then I was soberly agreeing, then I was quiet, then I just broke down. I remember telling my wife "My mom sucks, ok?". It kinda hit me that I was always going to be a person who has kind of a lovely, troubled childhood, and my mom was never going to be what I needed and wanted and deserved. I'm never gonna to get that.

I feel for you, Picnic Princess.

SulfurMonoxideCute
Feb 9, 2008

I was under direct orders not to die
🐵❌💀

You folks posted:

kind words

Thank you. It does help. I know for all of us, we can lose sight of our own strength sometimes even if it's still there.

I've been working on a kind of disjointed, stream of consciousness type blog telling my life story. I pretty much sit down with a microphone and just talk to an imaginary person and just spit out tales into text, then edit it for clarity later. I was also mulling over actually doing that with real friends, maybe doing a stream and just discussing all the good and terrible stuff I've been through. I feel average people need to tell their stories, so we have a better understanding of just how fascinating and strong we actually all are.

I'm dragging my heels though, for fear of it getting noticed by my family and them freaking out at me over airing their dirty laundry and exposing secrets they've kept from other relatives who likely have no idea what kind of dark secrets we've been keeping. But maybe it's also better to expose the truth. It could completely obliterate otherwise healthy relationships. One side of me loves the idea of watching this nuclear bomb of drama go off, and another side is terrified of it.

I could do it without showing my face and keeping names and places anonymous. But it would also be more interesting to see the face behind these stories to make it more relatable. I know I'm certainly not alone. I do like the idea of helping and empowering others. I hate the idea of it being a divine purpose (holy gently caress I've seen that and it's disturbing "God made you suffer so you could help others who's lives are already not that bad, be grateful for what you've been through" BARF no thanks). But I do feel loving great when others gain strength through my own. I absolutely do not expect others to feel the pressure to have that kind of attitude. If it's not right for you, it's not your responsibility to use your suffering to help others. Indeed, all of us should do what's best for us.

I'm going to go work on my blog some more and continue to brainstorm how to make it into other media.

Thank you. I feel a lot better today.

Literally A Person
Jan 1, 1970

Picnic Princess posted:

Thank you. It does help. I know for all of us, we can lose sight of our own strength sometimes even if it's still there.

I've been working on a kind of disjointed, stream of consciousness type blog telling my life story. I pretty much sit down with a microphone and just talk to an imaginary person and just spit out tales into text, then edit it for clarity later. I was also mulling over actually doing that with real friends, maybe doing a stream and just discussing all the good and terrible stuff I've been through. I feel average people need to tell their stories, so we have a better understanding of just how fascinating and strong we actually all are.

I'm dragging my heels though, for fear of it getting noticed by my family and them freaking out at me over airing their dirty laundry and exposing secrets they've kept from other relatives who likely have no idea what kind of dark secrets we've been keeping. But maybe it's also better to expose the truth. It could completely obliterate otherwise healthy relationships. One side of me loves the idea of watching this nuclear bomb of drama go off, and another side is terrified of it.

I could do it without showing my face and keeping names and places anonymous. But it would also be more interesting to see the face behind these stories to make it more relatable. I know I'm certainly not alone. I do like the idea of helping and empowering others. I hate the idea of it being a divine purpose (holy gently caress I've seen that and it's disturbing "God made you suffer so you could help others who's lives are already not that bad, be grateful for what you've been through" BARF no thanks). But I do feel loving great when others gain strength through my own. I absolutely do not expect others to feel the pressure to have that kind of attitude. If it's not right for you, it's not your responsibility to use your suffering to help others. Indeed, all of us should do what's best for us.

I'm going to go work on my blog some more and continue to brainstorm how to make it into other media.

Thank you. I feel a lot better today.

Seriously this is an awesome idea. Also, it's just a sociologically valid thing to do, right? Preserving stories that can be used to illustrate a trend over time is never a bad thing. It's actually cool as hell.

HelloIAmYourHeart
Dec 29, 2008
Fallen Rib

Picnic Princess posted:

I could do it without showing my face and keeping names and places anonymous. But it would also be more interesting to see the face behind these stories to make it more relatable.

This made me think of Tara Westover's book Educated. She made up names for her family members, but published it under her real name, and you can easily find their real names online. I can only imagine how much that blew up.

Apparently her mother wrote a book called "Educating" telling her side of the story. If I recall, she was estranged from her parents and siblings in Educated, and said estranged family members helped Tara get out.

Strep Vote
May 5, 2004

أنا أحب حليب الشوكولاتة

ElHuevoGrande posted:

This book was great for me. Got me into yoga, which gave me restful sleep for the first time in many years. It also finally gave me an answer on why I can't feel some parts of my body, and why I can be visibly emotional but have no idea what I'm feeling.

+1 on this book.

Bonster
Mar 3, 2007

Keep rolling, rolling
I came across this recently when I was trying to find a good guide for non-professionals on the neurological impact of abuse and neglect on brain development.

For some survivors of abuse and neglect that I've worked with, knowing that child maltreatment physically changes the structure of the brain was helpful. The ongoing struggles, mental health issues, difficulty regulating, and other symptoms are not because of some personal failure, but because the development of the brain got stuck in "poo poo, how am I going to survive this?" mode. Now that you're (hopefully) in a better place, you're trying to overcome hardwired neurological structuring.

Fortunately, neural plasticity is a thing, and the brain does develop ways to compensate. Cognitive training can help you recognize when you're reverting to "poo poo poo poo poo poo" brain, but it's exhausting. I've used this model with people to try to get them to realize that they don't need to punish themselves when they have a bad day, and that a lot of things can make your brain drop into survival mode even when you're trying to make it function the way you feel it "should".

I'm sure most of you already know about this, but I figured I'd post it anyway!

Lieutenant Dan
Oct 27, 2009

Weedlord Bonerhitler
I had this whole thing typed out on my previous post but I chickened out and thought it was too heavy for the thread, but y'all are good people, so here I am again!

I wanted to thank you guys cause I spoke to my dad about, basically, how I'm not going to involve my mom in my life if she keeps spouting crazy bullshit and yelling at me in public, etc etc, and he didn't seem SUPER fussed ("you know how she is" and all), but it seemed to actually make a difference! I have this big stupid tumor that makes me unable to have kids (I'll get a miscarriage or die, essentially). Luckily, I'm trans and my future-wife is a lady, so we literally cannot make any babbys. My mom likes to repeatedly make me explain why, and keeps demanding I explain what would happen in increasingly creepy hypothetical scenarios ("what if you 'change your mind' and have sex with men and then that man, who is not your wife, gets you pregnant???"). She doesn't seem to understand why repeatedly explaining miscarriages based on extra-marital male sexual assault would be upsetting to me. I keep telling her I date women and women literally cannot knock me up, but she keeps shouting and shouting (over the speakerphone, while I'm trying to talk to my dad) about what would happen if a guy has sex in my tumor surgery hole and all the ways I cannot carry that baby to term. It's loving disgusting, luckily my dad seemed to finally snap and told her to can it. I think they argued for a bit, since then my dad has shut her down every time she tries to edge in. I don't really care about not having kids (Mrs. Lieutenant Dan and I would like to adopt one day) but I think something about my mom's demanding I explain infertility, miscarriages, gay sexual assault, my own death, and my wife's genitals finally broke my dad, and he hasn't let her edge in on our phone calls/contact since.

So, uh, a happy-ish ending and I think he understands why I don't want her at my wedding. I've been thinking about miscarriages and sexual assault all week and am now worried that a random penis-haver will have sex with me for no reason. I feel like I'm 16. I am going to see about getting my dad a headset so he can hear me over the phone without my mom finding out he's talking to me and yelling from across the apartment. I still have hope he can be a great dad, he's a good guy and has made genuine changes over the last few years.

Literally A Person
Jan 1, 1970

Lieutenant Dan posted:

I had this whole thing typed out on my previous post but I chickened out and thought it was too heavy for the thread, but y'all are good people, so here I am again!

I wanted to thank you guys cause I spoke to my dad about, basically, how I'm not going to involve my mom in my life if she keeps spouting crazy bullshit and yelling at me in public, etc etc, and he didn't seem SUPER fussed ("you know how she is" and all), but it seemed to actually make a difference! I have this big stupid tumor that makes me unable to have kids (I'll get a miscarriage or die, essentially). Luckily, I'm trans and my future-wife is a lady, so we literally cannot make any babbys. My mom likes to repeatedly make me explain why, and keeps demanding I explain what would happen in increasingly creepy hypothetical scenarios ("what if you 'change your mind' and have sex with men and then that man, who is not your wife, gets you pregnant???"). She doesn't seem to understand why repeatedly explaining miscarriages based on extra-marital male sexual assault would be upsetting to me. I keep telling her I date women and women literally cannot knock me up, but she keeps shouting and shouting (over the speakerphone, while I'm trying to talk to my dad) about what would happen if a guy has sex in my tumor surgery hole and all the ways I cannot carry that baby to term. It's loving disgusting, luckily my dad seemed to finally snap and told her to can it. I think they argued for a bit, since then my dad has shut her down every time she tries to edge in. I don't really care about not having kids (Mrs. Lieutenant Dan and I would like to adopt one day) but I think something about my mom's demanding I explain infertility, miscarriages, gay sexual assault, my own death, and my wife's genitals finally broke my dad, and he hasn't let her edge in on our phone calls/contact since.

So, uh, a happy-ish ending and I think he understands why I don't want her at my wedding. I've been thinking about miscarriages and sexual assault all week and am now worried that a random penis-haver will have sex with me for no reason. I feel like I'm 16. I am going to see about getting my dad a headset so he can hear me over the phone without my mom finding out he's talking to me and yelling from across the apartment. I still have hope he can be a great dad, he's a good guy and has made genuine changes over the last few years.

Here's to Dad realizing it's time to put the kibosh on weird sexual assault talk. I hope things keep moving in a more positive direction for you from here!

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised.
Constant intrusive hypotheticals seems like something people anywhere on the queer spectrum are subjected to from both family and total strangers, and it sounds utterly exhausting.

Literally A Person
Jan 1, 1970

Ghost Leviathan posted:

Constant intrusive hypotheticals seems like something people anywhere on the queer spectrum are subjected to from both family and total strangers, and it sounds utterly exhausting.

That and, at least in my experience, that and being told liking other men means you'll end up with a huge butthole.

SulfurMonoxideCute
Feb 9, 2008

I was under direct orders not to die
🐵❌💀

I grew up being accused of being gay because I wasn't dating even by the time I was in grade 11, and my younger sister had boyfriends as early as grade 4.

The actual reason was I hated my gender, was nuerodiverse, depressed/suicidal, and literally afraid of boys thanks to all the abusive men in my family.

Then in grade 12 I ran away with a boy and a few years later my sister came out as a lesbian.


I'm really glad your dad is being cool with you and shutting your mom up. That's a seriously creepy level of obsession and no one deserves to be treated like that.

BrigadierSensible
Feb 16, 2012

I've got a pocket full of cheese🧀, and a garden full of trees🌴.

Lieutenant Dan posted:

I had this whole thing typed out on my previous post but I chickened out and thought it was too heavy for the thread, but y'all are good people, so here I am again!

I wanted to thank you guys cause I spoke to my dad about, basically, how I'm not going to involve my mom in my life if she keeps spouting crazy bullshit and yelling at me in public, etc etc, and he didn't seem SUPER fussed ("you know how she is" and all), but it seemed to actually make a difference! I have this big stupid tumor that makes me unable to have kids (I'll get a miscarriage or die, essentially). Luckily, I'm trans and my future-wife is a lady, so we literally cannot make any babbys. My mom likes to repeatedly make me explain why, and keeps demanding I explain what would happen in increasingly creepy hypothetical scenarios ("what if you 'change your mind' and have sex with men and then that man, who is not your wife, gets you pregnant???"). She doesn't seem to understand why repeatedly explaining miscarriages based on extra-marital male sexual assault would be upsetting to me. I keep telling her I date women and women literally cannot knock me up, but she keeps shouting and shouting (over the speakerphone, while I'm trying to talk to my dad) about what would happen if a guy has sex in my tumor surgery hole and all the ways I cannot carry that baby to term. It's loving disgusting, luckily my dad seemed to finally snap and told her to can it. I think they argued for a bit, since then my dad has shut her down every time she tries to edge in. I don't really care about not having kids (Mrs. Lieutenant Dan and I would like to adopt one day) but I think something about my mom's demanding I explain infertility, miscarriages, gay sexual assault, my own death, and my wife's genitals finally broke my dad, and he hasn't let her edge in on our phone calls/contact since.

So, uh, a happy-ish ending and I think he understands why I don't want her at my wedding. I've been thinking about miscarriages and sexual assault all week and am now worried that a random penis-haver will have sex with me for no reason. I feel like I'm 16. I am going to see about getting my dad a headset so he can hear me over the phone without my mom finding out he's talking to me and yelling from across the apartment. I still have hope he can be a great dad, he's a good guy and has made genuine changes over the last few years.

Anyone whose response to "I want a thing" is "Well if my child gets sexually assaulted, then perhaps I can have that thing", does not deserve to be in their child's life at all. Even if, (some might say especially if) that thing is a grandchild.

Oh and yay to your dad for being more accepting and supportive of who you are, and more assertive about protecting you from your arsehole of a mother. It also seems from what you say, that HE has made the effort to change and be nicer/more of a father. Which is also a good thing.

HelloIAmYourHeart
Dec 29, 2008
Fallen Rib
That can't be the only thing Lt Dan's mother has absolutely insane views on, and I must admit I'm morbidly curious about what the others are.

Sisal Two-Step
May 29, 2006

mom without jaw
dad without wife


i'm taking all the Ls now, sorry

Axqu posted:

Sorry. Couple dumbass posts in the r/r thread got me real heated. "Forgive them for your own sake!" Nah fucko, continuing to blithely accept my own treatment at the hands o a monster isn't healthy for me, it's convenient for you and condescending besides. "They're living rent free in your head!" Nah poo poo-for-brains, allowing her to tell me I shouldn't feel angry or upset at my treatment WAS her space in my head, and YOU are trying to rebuild her place after I thoroughly razed the foundations by telling me to sit down and calmly smile. You can live well AND feel rage. gently caress.

Hahaha I know the posts you're talking about. That whole 'by not forgiving them you're letting them live rent-free inside your head :smug:' rhetoric. Dumb.

Anyway, thank you goons for your kind posts earlier last week. I'm sorry I didn't respond earlier but I did my usual thing which was to shut down and run away in embarrassment from any evidence of my sincere emotions. Another thing I have to work on. :toot:

I am doing better with setting boundaries with my family. I told them all no Christmas this year. Did not let my older brother pull me into an argument about it. Baby steps.

My (21F) mom (52F) told me to not contact her again because I wouldn't send her $10k. I'm very hurt and confused.

quote:

So background, my mom and I have always had a tumultuous relationship. She has a lot of trauma she never dealt with and I believed it caused her to develop very controlling tendencies and extreme reactions to opposition. She told me she would help me with my college tuition, but only under a specific set of circumstances, and all throughout high school and part of college she threatened to remove any financial support unless I caved to her every wish. For example, I had to work a shift at work once on Easter in high school. She told me if I went to work instead of spending time with her I was on my own. She has always made me feel like her love was transactional and if I just met her every requirement things would be fine. She used to help me with medical bills, but claimed that because I use cannabis (it's legal in my state) I don't need her help. She is very manipulative, and often claims I don't love her or care about her because it's hard for me to be around her for long periods of time. She monitored my phone through an app until I was 16, including reading all my messages, and grounded me for "telling lies about her". She threatened to sue my boyfriend who was 18, and I was 16 (legal age of consent in my state), for statutory rape if she found out I was having sex. She raised me Catholic and when I decided I didn't believe in that she told me I'd always be missing something and would never be happy. This among many other things has caused me to resent her over the years and only see her out of obligation.

Now, I am a senior in college. My mom has helped me with tuition (I still took out as many loans as possible), but she lost her job a year or so again and has been broke. Naturally now that she doesn't have money to hold over my head she's been desperate. My father (20 years divorced to my mother) has paid for 60-70% of my expenses (car, housing, phone, yes I know I am very lucky) in college. He is an engineer at my university and because he has worked there for 5 years, his work paid for half my tuition to be refunded to me. It went into my account. I planned on using it for paying off my loans, but also may consider investing because its about 12k. I don't want to pay off my subsidized loans right away because tuition forgiveness may be happening in the next year, and I don't accrue interest until May.

My mother told me today that she wanted a full breakdown of exactly how much money was spent and that it was 100% solely used for loans. She believes that because she made most of the tuition payments that all that money is hers even though she used it to claim me as a dependent when she didn't pay for a majority of my expenses. I said no, I plan on using it to pay my off debt but also I am an adult and want to handle my own finances. She said this was not acceptable and told me I needed to venmo her $10,000 today so she can make sure it only goes to loans, or else "I shouldn't contact her again". I said no, I want to handle my own money. She said this is my fault and not to talk to her again.

I know that because I have been gaslighted for years I feel this is somehow my fault. My friends and family think she's crazy controlling and manipulative. I feel so horrible like my mother would discard me over something like this. I just need to know that I'm not crazy. I'm about to graduate with my engineering degree and have a good job lined up. I don't fuckup much and I just feel like she lost control over me and now she doesn't care.

HelloIAmYourHeart
Dec 29, 2008
Fallen Rib

Sisal Two-Step posted:

I am doing better with setting boundaries with my family. I told them all no Christmas this year. Did not let my older brother pull me into an argument about it. Baby steps.

idk, Christmas is a pretty big deal in a lot of families. It might not be that much of a baby step.

ok, true.
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

HelloIAmYourHeart fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Dec 14, 2020

Dienes
Nov 4, 2009

dee
doot doot dee
doot doot doot
doot doot dee
dee doot doot
doot doot dee
dee doot doot


College Slice

HelloIAmYourHeart posted:

idk, Christmas is a pretty big deal in a lot of families. It might not be that much of a baby step.

Yeah but this year you at least have another excuse to fall back on if you need it.

CherryCola
Apr 15, 2002

'ahtaj alshifa
haha by trying to go no contact with both of my parents, I'm somehow now also in a fight with my brother who used to be the person who got how hosed up our parents are?

He's gotten into this mindset that "well they're basically children and will probably die someday so you should humor them." Except that the way they treat him is different than how they treat me. My mom (my brother's ex-stepmom) feels bad about how she and my dad treated my brother when we were kids, so she basically puts zero pressure on him and is apparently super nice. I was the "golden child" except that I'm actually a disappointment and make her feel like a failure as a mother because I'm a big lefty while she is MAGA AF.

Anyway, I apparently have zero support from anyone in the family, and the one aunt I used to be able to talk to has also gone super MAGA and infowars crazy.

So yeah...haha it rules!

ohnobugs
Feb 22, 2003


CherryCola posted:

He's gotten into this mindset that "well they're basically children and will probably die someday so you should humor them."

This is fine for people with diagnosed dementia in professional care.

Going no contact rules. I don't have to listen to any more long-winded violent threats against female Democrats/women/black people.

PetraCore
Jul 20, 2017

👁️🔥👁️👁️👁️BE NOT👄AFRAID👁️👁️👁️🔥👁️

It's fine for him if he wants to humor them and can handle it because they're not mean to him now. It's lovely of him to try and push that on you when apparently your shared childhood was a wonderful example of how your parents can treat two people entirely differently. I'm sorry he's not backing you up.

Pvt.Scott
Feb 16, 2007

What God wants, God gets, God help us all

CherryCola posted:

haha by trying to go no contact with both of my parents, I'm somehow now also in a fight with my brother who used to be the person who got how hosed up our parents are?

He's gotten into this mindset that "well they're basically children and will probably die someday so you should humor them." Except that the way they treat him is different than how they treat me. My mom (my brother's ex-stepmom) feels bad about how she and my dad treated my brother when we were kids, so she basically puts zero pressure on him and is apparently super nice. I was the "golden child" except that I'm actually a disappointment and make her feel like a failure as a mother because I'm a big lefty while she is MAGA AF.

Anyway, I apparently have zero support from anyone in the family, and the one aunt I used to be able to talk to has also gone super MAGA and infowars crazy.

So yeah...haha it rules!

Next time you discuss your parents with your brother, communicate in baby-talk. Maybe he'll humor you.

hallo spacedog
Apr 3, 2007

this chaos is killing me
💫🐕🔪😱😱

I think someone in this thread had recommended the book Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents and I wanted to say thank you because it has been very helpful to me.

Baron Zephyrus
Apr 17, 2018
(Still catching up, sorry if I'm derailing)

My dad and I are NC right now, but I haven't blocked his cell number (didn't need to, and my siblings are terrible at communication as I'm about to demonstrate). I got a text today that my sister is in the hospital, but not why, and telling me to call her.

I didn't get it until this evening, and she's probably asleep but I finally got the hospital number and am on hold to try to get her as I type this. But.

Despite my mother insisting that he would never do this (and their divorce was... aggressive), I still worry that this is some sort of trap to force me to talk to him. He's fallen fairly deep into the Trump rabbit hole (and he was already brainworm-levels with the GOP and such), so I don't know what he is and isn't capable of anymore. I mean, this is the guy that "police shouldn't kill people on the streets, especially when they're loving restrained already" was some blasphemous statement and a personal insult somehow?

The final straw to going NC was when he ran to my mom instead of talking to me like an adult over it; before that, I was just going to block him on FB and tell him to give me space for a while. It would not surprise me if he tried to use my sister to force me to pretend nothing's wrong and talk to him.

I just. I don't know. This will be the first Christmas since I was a kid that I refuse to speak to him. And he's going through another divorce (gee, maybe wonder if you're the common denominator here?). Maybe he's trying to lash out at me again? He did that when he got cancer.

My mom wants me to contact him back for the sake of my sister, but I know that if I soften my boundaries, he'll stomp on them again (Mr. I-Have-To-Be-Literally-Snapped-At-To-Stop-Telling-You-To-Enlist-In-Military-And-Then-Act-Like-I'm-The-Injured-One doesn't understand that other people have feelings I guess.)

I'm just venting, I'm sorry, but this is still uncharted waters for me. And I want to hear someone that isn't going to just say "well family is family" and try to convince me to play nice just because he's my dad.


FAKE EDIT: Finally got my sister. It's not an accident or COVID but the docs are like "???? We have no clue why you're having what appears to be a stroke but isn't a stroke or cancer?" Why couldn't my dad have just said that????? He's clearly manipulating me. I just remembered he used them to guilt me when I was gonna go temporarily LC with him before going NC.

02-6611-0142-1
Sep 30, 2004

family can gently caress off, actually

SulfurMonoxideCute
Feb 9, 2008

I was under direct orders not to die
🐵❌💀

02-6611-0142-1 posted:

family can gently caress off, actually

SulfurMonoxideCute
Feb 9, 2008

I was under direct orders not to die
🐵❌💀

I hated getting texts saying "you need to call ___" because they were always a set up. It was a way to shuck the blame onto me no matter what went down. Simply texting the information would be giving in to me and my "lovely millennial" style communication. Calling me would be them assuming responsibility when it's been decided communicating was exclusively my job, not theirs. They absolutely had to make sure I was the one doing all the work, and if I didn't, it confirmed their bias. But they always set me up to confirm their bias. So I stopped falling for it.

Baron Zephyrus
Apr 17, 2018

02-6611-0142-1 posted:

family can gently caress off, actually

Thank you. I should know better (I've been helping my GF with her lovely homophobic family), but it's still helpful to hear. :glomp:

Picnic Princess posted:

I hated getting texts saying "you need to call ___" because they were always a set up. It was a way to shuck the blame onto me no matter what went down. Simply texting the information would be giving in to me and my "lovely millennial" style communication. Calling me would be them assuming responsibility when it's been decided communicating was exclusively my job, not theirs. They absolutely had to make sure I was the one doing all the work, and if I didn't, it confirmed their bias. But they always set me up to confirm their bias. So I stopped falling for it.

I didn't even consider this. Fortunately, my sister now definitely has my cell and knows to contact me directly, so I have more solid ground to tell dad to gently caress off. (Also my sister is irritated with his poo poo too, but hasn't reached a breaking point yet. No clue if she will or if my father will actually learn. Not holding my breath either way)

For now, at least, I don't have to deal with my dad condescending to me that "actually, Trump is good and smart" or criticizing literally every political position I have or telling me that I can't consider my future marriage to my GF a marriage because it's a "religious term" but guess what he called his EXPLICITLY NOT-RELIGIOUS union with my mom? (in fact, his priest wouldn't marry them unless she was pregnant. Mom did and still does not like organized religion)

Family can indeed gently caress off. They can earn my time and love and effort or eat poo poo.

Terrible Opinions
Oct 18, 2013



What kinda church wants you already pregnant before marriage?

Baron Zephyrus
Apr 17, 2018

Terrible Opinions posted:

What kinda church wants you already pregnant before marriage?

My dad wanted to marry my mom before he was deployed (Desert Storm, iirc), but his priest wouldn't do it. But then apparently told them "but if she's pregnant, I'll marry you tomorrow." Because he didn't want them to rush into marriage, but god loving forbid a kid be born out of wedlock. I still haven't gotten a proper story as to how they did actually marry, just that dad's priest wouldn't do it.

EMcTrap
Dec 8, 2006
Yam Slacker
One of the hardest parts of recovery from a toxic upbringing, IMO, is learning to show ourselves the same respect and consideration we'd show to someone else. (And of course, each of us recovers at our own pace, and in our own way-- there's no cure-all here.)

Anyway, something that might help: If / when you start to doubt yourself, feel guilty about "abandoning" your family member(s), or wonder if you're just being Too Sensitive or something, maybe ask yourself this: If someone else was in your situation-- your partner, your best friend, someone else here on SA, a co-worker, whatever-- what would you say to them?

Would you tell them that they should always forgive family? That they should give their family member One More Chance? That they're being selfish, self-centered, that they're the problem?

Or would you maybe say that they should be able, at the very least, to expect their parents to treat them with kindness?

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shame on an IGA
Apr 8, 2005

EMcTrap posted:

One of the hardest parts of recovery from a toxic upbringing, IMO, is learning to show ourselves the same respect and consideration we'd show to someone else. (And of course, each of us recovers at our own pace, and in our own way-- there's no cure-all here.)

Anyway, something that might help: If / when you start to doubt yourself, feel guilty about "abandoning" your family member(s), or wonder if you're just being Too Sensitive or something, maybe ask yourself this: If someone else was in your situation-- your partner, your best friend, someone else here on SA, a co-worker, whatever-- what would you say to them?

Would you tell them that they should always forgive family? That they should give their family member One More Chance? That they're being selfish, self-centered, that they're the problem?

Or would you maybe say that they should be able, at the very least, to expect their parents to treat them with kindness?

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