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HEY GUNS posted:Cavalry is prestgious in this order: Lancers; Cuirassiers; Arquebusiers; That light cav everyone who isn't from the Balkans call Croats; Dragoons. Where does a particularly prestigious infantry unit (grenadiers, say) fall on this list? Above or below dragoons?
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Dec 10, 2020 00:41
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Weka posted:You mean your armour, not your pike, I presume. Custer shot his own horse like five times.
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Dec 10, 2020 00:44
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HEY GUNS posted:wrong politcal entity; i study germans. also what we translate as lance is a very long rapier-lance hybrid called a koncerz. It was developed as a pikeman killer. Pike destroyer doctrine. I thought the Winged Hussars used really long, hollow lances to outrange pikes.
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Dec 10, 2020 00:52
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The Lone Badger posted:Where does a particularly prestigious infantry unit (grenadiers, say) fall on this list? Above or below dragoons? grenadiers postdate me although you will give people grenade launchers for an assault (the final push into a beseiged city for instance)
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Dec 10, 2020 01:37
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The Lone Badger posted:Where does a particularly prestigious infantry unit (grenadiers, say) fall on this list? Above or below dragoons? You talking monarch favourite palace guard or veteran specialists who fight here?
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Dec 10, 2020 01:40
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HEY GUNS posted:grenadiers postdate me although you will give people grenade launchers for an assault (the final push into a beseiged city for instance) IIRC early grenadiers were burly chaps with special training who threw iron bombs. Then they phased out the actual grenades as being useless but kept the 'grenadier' title on the existing regiments (who were regarded as being elite). (Please correct me.)
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Dec 10, 2020 01:51
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poisonpill posted:Custer shot his own horse like five times. That's a tough horse!
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Dec 10, 2020 03:45
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HEY GUNS posted:The entire spanish economy runs on massive convoys and they are very serious about it. It's in Rahn Phllips' books: The fact that you used present tense here is hilarious and amazing and I love it.
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Dec 10, 2020 03:53
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Can someone explain the British 77mm HV gun to me? I've read the wikipedia article about it several times but I can't wrap my head around it.
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Dec 10, 2020 04:07
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The Lone Badger posted:IIRC early grenadiers were burly chaps with special training who threw iron bombs. Then they phased out the actual grenades as being useless but kept the 'grenadier' title on the existing regiments (who were regarded as being elite). Maybe it's just a lingual coincidence, but in German a mortar is called Granatenwerfer, literally grenade thrower.
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Dec 10, 2020 05:03
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Nenonen posted:Maybe it's just a lingual coincidence, but in German a mortar is called Granatenwerfer, literally grenade thrower. Everything in german is named that way though. They have no sense of style or elegance for naming.
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Dec 10, 2020 05:13
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If you must try to have a one to one relation of words between languages, "werfen" is probably closer to "hurl" than "throw".Gaius Marius posted:Everything in german is named that way though. They have no sense of style or elegance for naming. No they don't and the English word is just a borrowing from French that was then used as a metaphor because it kind of looked like a mortar a la mortar and pestle. This is an incredibly dumb post when you know like half the thread speaks German.
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Dec 10, 2020 06:07
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Xiahou Dun posted:If you must try to have a one to one relation of words between languages, "werfen" is probably closer to "hurl" than "throw". "I speak Spanish to God, Italian to women, French to men, and German to my horse." Sorry man Charles has spoken
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Dec 10, 2020 06:17
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White Coke posted:Can someone explain the British 77mm HV gun to me? I've read the wikipedia article about it several times but I can't wrap my head around it. A quick glance at the relevant bit of the wiki leads me to think that this is how it went: There's a Vickers HV 75mm gun, with a cartridge based on a naval AA gun. It was intended to fire the same projectiles as the US 75mm guns, but faster. It ended up being too big for the Cromwell, which used a 75mm gun that was made by converting a 6-pounder (57mm) to have a 75mm bore. The British then adapted the Vickers HV 75 to use the same projectiles as the 17 pounder, which had a 77mm bore, and put that in the Comet, which replaced the Cromwell. It's more powerful, or at least does better in the anti-tank role, than the Cromwell's regular 75mm, but it takes up less space in the turret than the 17-pounder.
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Dec 10, 2020 06:24
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Gaius Marius posted:"I speak Spanish to God, Italian to women, French to men, and German to my horse." Doch kannst du mich am Arsch lecken. Edit : I'm being flippant because this is just stupid and only a hair different from calling the French "cheese-eating surrender monkeys" or something. It's a bad post and ignorantly making GBS threads on other languages has no place in the MilHist thread. If it was some informed making GBS threads, that'd be another story. But this argument falls apart when you remember that English has the word "firetruck". Xiahou Dun fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Dec 10, 2020 |
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Dec 10, 2020 06:36
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Xiahou Dun posted:Doch kannst du mich am Arsch lecken. I bet you say that to all the cute fillys. Serious though dude take a chill pill. It's a joke, not a funny one, but an attempt at levity.
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Dec 10, 2020 06:51
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It's a lovely and ignorant joke.
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Dec 10, 2020 06:54
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HEY GUNS posted:Drilling is very loaded because I'm not actually sure they did it. It would be very difficult to load and fire a musket in armor. It's already difficult for me to fight with a pike in armor but mine is far too big. Yeah, that is perhaps a bad choice of words. What comes up from source materials was that Swedish higher officers were hesitant to commit native infantry regiments into battles initially, citing that the mercenaries were professionals while they didn't trust native infantry to do what they were supposed to. Also, with regards to Swedes, muskets and armor something my friend discovered was that king Erik tried to import german and scots mercenaries to train his infantry in a similar way to landskenechts, but didn't have the time and money to do it properly. Later kings (Johan, Karl) had the problem where their succession wasn't seen as legitimate by all (Johan possibly had Erik murdered, Karl usurped his nephew Sigismund after a civil war) and they all also got entangled into long wars. Johan ruled for more than two decades and much of that time was taken by a war between Sweden and Russia, the raiding committed by both being given the name The Old Hatred (as opposed to later Big Hatred and Small Hatred). Johan and Karl couldn't reform their armies, especially infatry, thoroughly as most of it was spread over the arse-end of their realm (Finland) in penny packets to raid Russia and to stop Russian raiding. Also something that came up during Johan's reign was that infantry having to wear armor and carry pikes on long campaign was not popular and, as Johans succession was seen as dubious (having your brother murdered was not popular) he had to take steps to make his troops happier to prevent mutinies. Just muskets were cheaper than body armor + pikes and since most of the war was small raiding actions anyway it didn't hurt his efforts that badly. Cavalry was yet at that time the priority anyway. During Gustavus Adolphus reign many Baltic Germans were made noble and given land in what were then Swedish parts of Finland/Karelia, many seemed to have served as reiters in his cavalry regiments, either native or permanently hired mercenary.
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Dec 10, 2020 07:29
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Anyone have any book recommendations on the Peloponnesian or Greek-Persian Wars?
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Dec 10, 2020 07:41
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 Why would a liaison aircraft be roped to a truck, driven onto a landing craft, and sailed across the channel, rather than assembled in the UK and flown? This is presumably some time after the battle of Cherbourg.
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Dec 10, 2020 08:54
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Gaius Marius posted:Everything in german is named that way though. They have no sense of style or elegance for naming. I'm no expert but I think the German language has more than one word.
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Dec 10, 2020 09:33
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HookedOnChthonics posted:Why would a liaison aircraft be roped to a truck, driven onto a landing craft, and sailed across the channel, rather than assembled in the UK and flown? This is presumably some time after the battle of Cherbourg. Why would you if you can sail it? Wear and tear on the engine. If you are flying it, you need the pilot to come to the plane. If you assemble it in England then you have an airfield in England fully staffed with aircrew and engineers and pilots who aren't doing anything but putting planes together and then flying them off somewhere else. If there's bad weather in the Channel you can't fly. I think I caught most of them.
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Dec 10, 2020 10:45
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putting things on boats has yet to be surpassed for cost and fuel efficiency
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Dec 10, 2020 12:33
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Gaius Marius posted:I bet you say that to all the cute fillys. gently caress off brony
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Dec 10, 2020 12:45
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HEY GUNS posted:grenadiers postdate me although you will give people grenade launchers for an assault (the final push into a beseiged city for instance) These: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_mortar ? Interesting looking things, hadn't heard about them before.
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Dec 10, 2020 13:26
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Ship question - Dreadnaught era ships (and a bit earlier) have 45 degree angled 'something' on the hulls - what is it ? Whatever it is seems to vanish in later ships. For example, /hms-dreadnought-large-56a61c3e3df78cf7728b6440.jpg)
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Dec 10, 2020 13:33
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CrypticFox posted:Anyone have any book recommendations on the Peloponnesian or Greek-Persian Wars? I expect you're looking for something beyond Thucydides and Herodotus but you should seriously pick those up even with secondary sources. I was taught using the penguin translations. I would have to go back through essays a decade old to give you secondary source recs, but don't expect I'll find that many. White Coke posted:I thought the Winged Hussars used really long, hollow lances to outrange pikes. They did. A koncerz is a slightly longer single-handed sword designed for thrusting. Sort of a single-handed estoc, not a "rapier-lance hybrid".
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Dec 10, 2020 13:35
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Baconroll posted:Ship question - Dreadnaught era ships (and a bit earlier) have 45 degree angled 'something' on the hulls - what is it ? Whatever it is seems to vanish in later ships. Paravane poles?
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Dec 10, 2020 13:37
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Baconroll posted:Ship question - Dreadnaught era ships (and a bit earlier) have 45 degree angled 'something' on the hulls - what is it ? Whatever it is seems to vanish in later ships. Anti-torpedo nets. The idea is that they swing out to catch torpedos. They failed to be effective once torpedos got bigger/faster. 
Fangz fucked around with this message at 13:42 on Dec 10, 2020 |
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Dec 10, 2020 13:38
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Fangz posted:Anti-torpedo nets. The idea is that they swing out to catch torpedos. They failed to be effective once torpedos got bigger/faster. ah ofc
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Dec 10, 2020 13:40
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I think even less than countermeasures being developed the biggest problem was you can only use them while moored. As torpedo boats got bigger and hardier, and once submarines were invented, most of the risk was really when you are steaming around, so investing that weight in hull-based devices like bulging was a lot more useful. edit: and of course a lot more time/effort/money was invested in shore defenses of various kinds
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Dec 10, 2020 13:56
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HookedOnChthonics posted:Why would a liaison aircraft be roped to a truck, driven onto a landing craft, and sailed across the channel, rather than assembled in the UK and flown? This is presumably some time after the battle of Cherbourg. Besides to what Alchenar said, it would be easier to stay together with the HQ that way. If the unit goes by ship and you are told to follow by plane there's a non-zero chance that a) you get lost, b) something bad happens on the way there (Allied air superiority doesn't remove the risks of getting shot down by Jerries or friendlies), and c) you have to land on some rough patch that you haven't seen up close before and you crash.
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Dec 10, 2020 15:21
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CrypticFox posted:Anyone have any book recommendations on the Peloponnesian or Greek-Persian Wars? Get the Norton Critical edition of Thucydides first off
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Dec 10, 2020 16:40
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I know that getting into a squabble over dumb poo poo is extremely on brand for military history, but let's not do it in the present.
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Dec 10, 2020 16:52
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Beardless posted:A quick glance at the relevant bit of the wiki leads me to think that this is how it went: This is mostly right, except that the 17 pounder had a 76.2mm (3in) bore. However, this brought problems - the Allies already had a 3in gun, a 76mm gun and, of course, a 17 pounder gun. To avoid confusing the logistical system - you don't want to order a crate of 76mm shells and get one that doesn't fit in your gun - the new gun was given an inaccurate name, the 77mm.
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Dec 10, 2020 16:54
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White Coke posted:Can someone explain the British 77mm HV gun to me? I've read the wikipedia article about it several times but I can't wrap my head around it. The British had (still have?) strange ideas about tank guns. In 1941 their bets were all on relatively small caliber guns that fired high velocity solid shot, making them very good at penetrating lots of armour but not really good at anything else. These tanks were supported by close support tanks with howitzers firing smoke and occasionally HE. In 1942 when Lee/Grant and later Sherman tanks saw battle, it turned out that a general purpose 75 mm gun was much more useful since any given tank could react to any threat it encountered rather than having a specialized tank for each task. It was possible to make a 75 mm gun that worked with the 6-pounder gun mount to retrofit existing tanks quickly, but the decreased armour penetration was an issue, especially when a new type of German tank with thick armour was discovered that could not be penetrated through the front with the 75 mm gun while the 6-pounder could do it. The solution was to develop a higher velocity 75 mm gun. Work on the Vickers 75 mm HV continued until early 1944, by which time the 76 mm 17-pounder showed very good results against new German tanks. In late 1943 the 17-pounder was also fitted into the M10 to make the Achilles Ic and Sherman to make the Sherman Vc (more commonly known as the Firefly). There was a drawback: the 17-pounder was massive. The breech was bulky and the long recoil meant that the turret had to be large to accommodate it, which is why the Firefly has a box sticking out the back where the radio had to be moved. Even with the expanded turret and the Sherman's massive turret ring the long 17-pounder ammunition was difficult to load. The solution was to dial the gun back a bit. A shortened 17-pounder barrel was mated with the 75 mm HV breech to create a high velocity 76 mm gun that was capable of fighting any known enemy tank and yet fit in a turret of reasonable size. The ammunition was also more reasonably sized, since a shorter barrel means you don't need as much propellant anymore. The gun was called 77 mm so people wouldn't try to put 17-pounder ammo into it or vice versa. The 77 mm gun was in a kind of weird place since it only fit into the new A34 Cruiser (Comet IA). It was too big to put into existing Churchill and Cromwell tanks, and the British wanted their heavier tanks to have a full 17-pounder anyway (Black Prince and Centurion had them), later on it turned out that there were even heavier tanks popping up like the Tiger II and the IS-3, so even the 17-pounder was no longer enough and it was quickly replaced with the 20-pounder after the war. There wasn't really a place for the 77 mm gun anymore. The 75 mm guns were better at slinging HE and its AP performance wasn't enough to fight emerging threats, so it didn't see any use after the Comet.
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Dec 10, 2020 17:07
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I'm looking for an entry level book on the Russian Civil War and the interwar Soviet Union, any recommendations?
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Dec 10, 2020 18:30
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Ensign Expendable posted:The gun was called 77 mm so people wouldn't try to put 17-pounder ammo into it or vice versa. Stop trying to jam the wrong ammo in there! This is the same reason the US ended up with a 106mm M40 recoilless rifle. They needed a way to make it real clear that it was different from the 105mm M27 ammo.
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Dec 10, 2020 18:46
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In an older post that spun off helmet chat, someone mentioned that naughty german kit could give away their positions from all the metal clinking of the webbing and also the leather and ersatz tobacco could literally be smelled from a distance. What were the allies using that avoided these problems, especially the noise complaint. Seems like the days before plastic everything
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Dec 10, 2020 19:47
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I thought that was clanky canteens and wool getting wet. And if that's true the simple solution for the Allies would be to, you know, not do that.
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Dec 10, 2020 19:50
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