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Deviant posted:Let's talk laminate vs hardwood. I want to have all the laminate redone because PO did a lovely job and used cheap materials. We did a cheap floor ($0.99/sqft) for a single room to get familiar with the process. Cheap quality led to lovely install because there's a reason it's $0.99/ft. Next time we'll pay for the better quality poo poo when we do the next room and probably the first room over while paying for the $2+/ft stuff.
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Dec 9, 2020 17:05
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Lifeproof at home depot is great stuff. It looks good. Hardwood is a commitment to periodic maintenance (decade scale for major stuff) but I think looks nicer. Only time will tell if this faux stuff is going to last forever, I say walking on the original 1947 hardwood in my house and Lifeproof in my detached office.
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Dec 9, 2020 17:15
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Tezer posted:The above advice does not apply to flooring installed on a concrete slab. Then it is of no use to me! No, seriously, how does that differ? I have a single story house in FL with a concrete subfloor to the best of my knowledge. I'm gonna go ask the shop who did my carpet too, but I'm trying to get an idea of what i'm after. I'm leaning towards a higher cost, more quality laminate.
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Dec 9, 2020 18:22
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H110Hawk posted:Only time will tell if this faux stuff is going to last forever, I say walking on the original 1947 hardwood in my house and Lifeproof in my detached office. Obviously this isn't hard data, but I will say that the laminate my parents installed when they build a new kitchen in 1998 is still going strong. No major scratches or dents, hasn't come up, or anything like that. It's survived 2 dogs, me and my teenage friends stomping all over it its first couple of years, and the past few years their grandkids/my nieces and nephews stomping/crawling/playing with their toys all over it.
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Dec 9, 2020 18:27
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Deviant posted:Then it is of no use to me! Real wood flooring over a slab requires additional prep which likely isn't in place if you currently have a non-wood floor. Here's a good starting guide, you'll see that it requires substantial additional work and therefore my previous cost comparisons aren't going to be accurate. https://www.hardwoodinfo.com/specifying-professionals/project-support/flooring-guides/installing-hardwood-floor-concrete-slab-2/ Wood is sensitive to moisture and temperature, and slabs are notorious for issues in those two areas. Wood also will expand and contract, which then raises questions regarding how you attach it to concrete while still allowing movement. You can just glue it to the slab and hope for the best, but you may be unpleasantly surprised. For laminate and engineered wood flooring the manufacturer of the specific flooring should publish a guide on installation over concrete slabs, as opposed to wood floors where the advice is more general to the industry.
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Dec 9, 2020 18:37
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Tezer posted:Real wood flooring over a slab requires additional prep which likely isn't in place if you currently have a non-wood floor. Here's a good starting guide, you'll see that it requires substantial additional work and therefore my previous cost comparisons aren't going to be accurate. Ok, this is good to know. I'm replacing existing laminate, but it appears to have been done badly by the PO, so who the gently caress knows. I'm having pros install this, so I imagine they'll do what needs doing. Your comments about moisture/temperature makes me think laminate is best.[
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Dec 9, 2020 18:42
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Deviant posted:Ok, this is good to know. I'm replacing existing laminate, but it appears to have been done badly by the PO, so who the gently caress knows. I'm having pros install this, so I imagine they'll do what needs doing. Your comments about moisture/temperature makes me think laminate is best.[ “LVP” vinyl plank is a nice option for going over concrete. It feels like laminate but doesn’t care about moisture.
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Dec 9, 2020 18:49
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eddiewalker posted:“LVP” vinyl plank is a nice option for going over concrete. It feels like laminate but doesn’t care about moisture. Certain LVP products react very poorly to sunlight. Damage to the finish as well as warping. There is no perfect guide to what LVP products perform well and which ones do not. I avoid the entire category as a result. My advice on LVP is that you should use a reputable installer who runs their own showroom and you should specifically ask them about LVP and sun damage. They should be able to point you towards a safer product, but even then read the manufacturers spec and make sure you are comfortable with the terms. It is nearly impossible to get a manufacturer warranty honored, they are all pro-rated, exclude labor, and some straight-up do not warranty areas installed in the sun or where elevated temperatures may occur.
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Dec 9, 2020 19:44
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I am looking to get a gas stove this summer, and was wondering whether propane would be better than NG. The gas company said they run the line to the house for free, so long as a gas appliance is installed, and service turned on within 6 months of them running the line. But any gas lines in the house and subsequent hook up of appliances costs money, obviously. At my last house, I looked into adding a gas line for a stove (furnace and water heater were NG, gas was electric) and it was going to be over $300 to add a T and extend the line about 15' to where the stove was. I left that house before I pulled the trigger on that. In this house, I have to go easily twice, if not three-four times that distance (depending on where the gas line would come in) to get to the stove. So even if it costs me several hundred dollars to get a propane tank and run the line to my stove (and since the kitchen is on the back of the house where I imagine a propane tank would go, so not very far to run a line)that part equalizes out, I would think, or at least come close. So then it comes down to on going costs. Just to HAVE a gas account around here is $0.76 a day, and then a little over a dollar per CCF  Current propane prices are about $2.40 a gallon:  So let's say I have a 30,000 BTU stove, I'm almost never going to use all those BTUs at once. I feel like at most I'd have one burner on high, maybe one on low-medium, and the oven on. So...let's say 15,000 BTU for 30 minutes a day. That's 15 hours a month, let's just round up to 20 to be sure. 15,000 * 20 = 300,000 BTUs of monthly stove usage. One gallon of propane is 91,500 BTUs, so I'd use a scant 3.27 gallons of propane per month, 40 gallons a year. Natural gas is ~103,000 BTUs per CCF, so only 2.98 CCF. So a month of propane usage would be, on average, at current prices, ~$7.85, let's round up to $8/month, $56/year (likely less since in summer I wouldn't cook nearly as much, but that will be true with NG as well.) A month of NG is $3.15 for the actual gas, and $23 to get the gas delivered, so $26.15month, ~$315 per year. So the big deciding factor is how much the delivery of the propane costs (and one time cost of the stove if propane ones are substantially more), but I somehow doubt it's going to be more than $260 to make up the difference from NG. Especially if I get, say, a 100 gallon tank that could potentially last over a year between fill ups, though I would probably schedule it yearly to be on the safe side. And on the other hand I'm probably way overthinking this and should trust in my inner Hank Hill and go with that Sweet Lady Propane so I can taste the meat, not the heat. (Though honestly, wouldn't the area that Hank lives in be big Natural Gas country, and propane a weird outlier for residential usage? Outdoor grills, sure, but kitchen stoves, water heaters, and furnaces? Seems odd.)
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Dec 9, 2020 20:47
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I live in DFW and almost all homes have a natural gas run, but I rarely see an outdoor NG run to the patio so everyone uses propane for grills still. If you're paying for the install one way or another you might as well go propane to get the higher energy output for water heaters and furnaces. Your stove/grill won't be any different between the two if properly setup.
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Dec 9, 2020 20:57
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Another thing I'd take into consideration is switching to NG heat, as that might be a considerable cost savings over electric, depending on your current system.
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Dec 9, 2020 20:58
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Elviscat posted:Another thing I'd take into consideration is switching to NG heat, as that might be a considerable cost savings over electric, depending on your current system. Would love to, but that is almost certainly too expensive for me at the moment and probably ever. Right now it's all electric baseboard, and my quick math last winter showed I was paying, on average, about $60-70 more a month in the winter on utilities total compared to when I was paying for gas heat. So while switching would save monthly costs, it's not THAT much, honestly. Like...let's say a new furnace is $5000, and installation is...what...$3000? I'm looking at about a 10-12 year ROI. And I think those are very conservative cost estimates. I am getting a pellet stove installed soon (free stove gifted to me, along with a LOT of pellets, easily will last the remainder of this winter and most if not all of next, waiting on the estimate for the actual install/setup of the stove and chimney) so I'll be even less reliant on the electric heat, will only need it for the bedroom and office, since the pellet stove heat won't reach there very easily. If I decide I don't really care for the pellet stove, I would probably get some kind of cold climate heat pump/ductless mini-split. They're much more economical than electric baseboard, and cheaper to purchase and install than an NG furnace. The water heater I might someday swap to an on-demand gas heater, but that an use propane easily enough.
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Dec 9, 2020 21:16
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DrBouvenstein posted:I am looking to get a gas stove this summer, and was wondering whether propane would be better than NG. With NG you don’t have to deal with the space a pig or tank takes up and getting a truck in to refill. Propane companies love to play games with contracts, tank rentals, and refill/service fees (especially smaller tanks.) NG also comes from a utility, generally better regulated than propane suppliers (who are generally closer to buck strickland than hank hill).
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Dec 9, 2020 21:20
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Who I talk to if I want to install solar panels on my house? Do I need to buy the panels myself, or does the pro do that? Our electricals are overdue for replacement and I’d like to go ahead and put in solar poo poo while we’re at it. Bare minimum we want the cells to power our A/C since that’s the biggest drain on our energy bill, but if we can outfit the rest of the house along with that
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Dec 10, 2020 00:45
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I. M. Gei posted:Who I talk to if I want to install solar panels on my house? What do you mean your 'electricals are overdue for replacement'? You don't have rewire a house every 30 years because the wires go bad or something. You should talk to your local electric utility about solar because rules/prices/rebates etc vary hugely across the country and locality. In some areas the utility will pay you to install them and then buy the power from you at a good rate for the homeowner, some areas the power co. won't help you at all and will reluctantly buy power from you at a terrible rate for the homeowner.
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Dec 10, 2020 01:46
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:What do you mean your 'electricals are overdue for replacement'? Please look at who you responded to and act accordingly. (I know you know, but come on....this just just another one) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 10, 2020 02:38
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DrBouvenstein posted:Right now it's all electric baseboard, and my quick math last winter showed I was paying, on average, about $60-70 more a month in the winter on utilities total compared to when I was paying for gas heat. You must live somewhere that is pretty warm. Electric resistive heat -> NG would be a no-brainer anywhere that sees snow. The payback would be a few years, max. If you're just doing a gas range, I wouldn't get NG for that. As you calculated, your meter fees would be way more than the gas itself. Gas ranges don't use much gas, and would be fine with just a tank. Around me, I'd figure $800 or so for a 120 gallon propane tank installed and $2-3/g to fill. Like the meter fees, you probably don't want to rent the tank, because the propane company will kill you on minimums (many require 2+ fills of the 120G per year, which you likely won't hit with just a range.)
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Dec 10, 2020 04:14
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Motronic posted:Please look at who you responded to and act accordingly. I told you to knock this loving poo poo off. Stop telling other goons I’m a troll! It’s destructive and super offensive to me. Kaiser Schnitzel posted:What do you mean your 'electricals are overdue for replacement'? You don't have rewire a house every 30 years because the wires go bad or something. I don’t remember the exact name for it, but it’s the thingy that determines how many amps we have or something. Our... “circuit panel”? “Circuit box”? “Circuit something-or-other”? Whatever, we had an electrician come to our house last year and he told us that our THING was only 60A and wasn’t up to code anymore (our house was built in the 1960s), and that we need a new THING for 100A instead of 60. At the time we were looking into getting a backup generator installed, and apparently we have to replace our 60A THING with a 100A THING before we can do that and it’ll cost a whole bunch of money to replace it. I can’t remember what “THING” is actually called, but I can call the guy tomorrow and find out if I need to, which it sounds like I do. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) I. M. Gei fucked around with this message at 04:29 on Dec 10, 2020 |
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Dec 10, 2020 04:26
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B-Nasty posted:You must live somewhere that is pretty warm. Electric resistive heat -> NG would be a no-brainer anywhere that sees snow. The payback would be a few years, max. Nope, I'm in Vermont. I was paying maybe $50-60 a month in electricity in the winter at my old house, and $90-120 for NG. So on the high end, like $180 total. Maybe a month where it hit $200 if it was real cold. In my current place, the highest electricity bill last year was $280, but they averaged $250ish in the winter. So I was a little low on my estimate of the difference, but only by like $10-15 a month, so it's still a pretty long ROI to fully upgrade to NG for heat, and longer for heat and hot water. Though my last place was larger, so a NG bill here for heat and hot water would be maybe...$70-80?
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Dec 10, 2020 05:11
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I. M. Gei posted:Who I talk to if I want to install solar panels on my house? If you need to get a wall reframed, does the contractor ask you to buy the lumber? If you need plumbing replaced, do you hire a plumber who relies on you to buy the right pipe? If you need your electricals refreshed, do you hire an electrician who looks to you to buy a "100A THING"? Of course not, you hire a professional because they source materials for you (and charge you a premium). There are boatloads of solar companies out there who can sell you all sorts of different panel/inverter arrangements and install them with the right configurations for your utility. In addition, they may highlight how potentially inadequate your electrical distribution/panel (your "THING") is, and replace it as well. There is also a difference between needing to upgrade a panel because it is potentially dangerous and needing to upgrade you service for more amperage. In all reality, upgrading your electrical service and panel (if it truly needs to be replaced for whatever reason it is deemed inadequate at this point in time - which frankly is possible, there are lots of death trap panels), may not be that expensive depending on its location, whether you have overhead or underground service, etc. Solar installation costs would completely swamp the cost of upgraded electrical service and a new panel/breakers, by potentially an order of magnitude depending on the specifics of your install and the details of your existing "electricals." But please, absolutely hire a licensed professional and have them do it all. e: This is my "THING" with the front removed. Yours is probably smaller, older, and hopefully doesn't say Zinsco on it.  ROJO fucked around with this message at 07:14 on Dec 10, 2020 |
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Dec 10, 2020 06:39
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I am very excited because we are on the verge of buying a house! It's the blissful DIY combo of being very ugly but structurally and mechanically in great shape (roof, water heater, furnace, and windows are less that 5 years old). The one exception to this is the kitchen, which basically looks like the previous owners figured out the arrangement by throwing a dart and plopping down an appliance wherever it landed. The biggest problem is the dishwasher, which was jammed in a corner in such a way that required the stove to be pushed out about a foot in order for it to open. I know this because it is no longer centered under the comically large microwave range hood. A poor artist's rendition of the situation:  What I want to do is move the dishwasher to the other side of the sink, the way god and probably any sane person would have intended. Another house recently sold on the street with the same floor plan has the dishwasher to the right of the sink, which I hope means that the plumbing isn't going to be a major issue to get sorted out. Goons, am I being overly optimistic about this or is this going to be a reasonably affordable project to get done before we move in?
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Dec 11, 2020 01:55
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Do it, mate. Even if it costs money. The kitchen is very important and you will regret not improving it immediately. Put a counter cabinet in that corner and enjoy life again It's good timing to think about adding outlets too. When we got counters and overhead cabinets put in, it was easy and no extra cost for the crew to split and relocate an outlet. Now my rice cooker and toaster can be on at the same time without tripping the breaker! peanut fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Dec 11, 2020 |
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Dec 11, 2020 02:35
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Yeah, luckily most of the pre-move projects are stuff that are time consuming but that I can tackle myself (painting everything, fixing doors, removing the ugly vinyl covering some lovely oak floors). I knew the kitchen was going to need to get done ASAP but I'm just a nervous first-time home owner. I'm also trying to make plans from afar, although my parents live about 5 min away and have been able to do a lot of the in-person inspecting that I can't. Still, they were like "yeah, redo the kitchen it'll only be $6k" which like, pal if I could drop that kind of cash I wouldn't be buying a house that looked like this.
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Dec 11, 2020 03:44
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Bingo Bango posted:I am very excited because we are on the verge of buying a house! It's the blissful DIY combo of being very ugly but structurally and mechanically in great shape (roof, water heater, furnace, and windows are less that 5 years old). The one exception to this is the kitchen, which basically looks like the previous owners figured out the arrangement by throwing a dart and plopping down an appliance wherever it landed. Dishwashers are probably the easiest plumbing for water+drainage of any appliance minus I guess a fridge. Now your exact specifics for the cabinets and what's in the way for routing might be a challenge but in general this is an easy job to do on the grand scale of house things.
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Dec 11, 2020 04:28
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Yeah, the part about that that's gonna loving suck is the cabinets, and weird holes left in them by moving the dishwasher, plumbing will be easy as hell, you just punch a couple holes and run lines as they're run on the other side. Electric, to do it properly, will be somewhat more annoying.
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Dec 11, 2020 06:26
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$5000 for full kitchen refreshment is exactly what I was thinking… but you could just move the dishwasher, put a large wire rack in that corner, and handwash dishes until you're ready to pay for plumbing. Our dishwasher sucks so it's only used as a drying rack. ps post pics
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Dec 11, 2020 06:51
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Bingo Bango posted:Still, they were like "yeah, redo the kitchen it'll only be $6k" which like, pal if I could drop that kind of cash I wouldn't be buying a house that looked like this. Dishwasher is very easy like everyone else said. When I moved in I had a portable rolling dishwasher that had to be rolled over and hooked up to the faucet for water. That thing was awful so I knocked out some cabinets and installed a sears ding and dent dishwasher that has been absolutely fantastic at a dirt cheap price. If I could make a general recommendation, Popular Mechanics DIY home guide book is absolutely fantastic for explaining how everything works and how to fix or install stuff. That particular version is out of print and can be bought stupid cheap on thriftbooks or Abe books. I bought a buddy the new version of the black and Decker home guide as a housewarming present, and it’s absolutely awful. Instead of being organized nicely into sections like plumbing, electrical, it’s organized alphabetically to “mirror how people search for stuff online” and it’s garbage to flip through.
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Dec 11, 2020 06:56
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Bingo Bango posted:Yeah, luckily most of the pre-move projects are stuff that are time consuming but that I can tackle myself (painting everything, fixing doors, removing the ugly vinyl covering some lovely oak floors). I knew the kitchen was going to need to get done ASAP but I'm just a nervous first-time home owner. I'm also trying to make plans from afar, although my parents live about 5 min away and have been able to do a lot of the in-person inspecting that I can't. Still, they were like "yeah, redo the kitchen it'll only be $6k" which like, pal if I could drop that kind of cash I wouldn't be buying a house that looked like this. * An outlet for it is under the sink and you can just plug it back in * Dishwasher drains with a flex tube in to the garbage dispoasal, which is usually the case. You obviously have to drill holes or whatever in the cabinet for this stuff. As far as '$6k kitchen' thats not impossible, but seems unlikely. I've been posting in the home design thread about my upcoming kitchen remodel, the Ikea stuff below is about $8k for cabinets, which does NOT include Sink, Faucet, Counters, Lights, Floor, Stools. Also these are VOXTORP which seem to be more expensive than most of the rest for some dumb reason.  
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Dec 11, 2020 15:29
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DrBouvenstein posted:Nope, I'm in Vermont. Start factoring in your carbon tax payment! https://www.wcax.com/2020/12/10/burlington-city-council-to-vote-on-carbon-tax-charter-change/ Really? 
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Dec 11, 2020 18:18
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Carbon taxing is something that should absolutely happen, particularly to the large corporations that are responsible for most emissions, but I'm also ok with it across the board.
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Dec 11, 2020 18:50
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Alarbus posted:Start factoring in your carbon tax payment! https://www.wcax.com/2020/12/10/burlington-city-council-to-vote-on-carbon-tax-charter-change/ It's a good point. Right now, natural gas is dirt cheap and the US is overflowing with it. However, the recent political 'changing of the guard' is likely going to result in an increased push for green energy and a focus on de-incentivizing fossil fuels, including NG. HVAC systems, and furnaces in particular, can last upwards of 15-20 years. I would bet almost anything I have that we'll see residential NG getting taxed hard in that timeframe due to its outsized impact on climate change. Some (progressive) areas are already starting to refuse permits for new NG infra.
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Dec 11, 2020 19:31
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falz posted:Dishwasher oved to adjacent side of the sink should be easy if: I’m curious - what are the dimensions of this kitchen? Can you link me to the thread where you’ve been posting, this looks great!
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Dec 11, 2020 19:35
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B-Nasty posted:It's a good point. Right now, natural gas is dirt cheap and the US is overflowing with it. However, the recent political 'changing of the guard' is likely going to result in an increased push for green energy and a focus on de-incentivizing fossil fuels, including NG. HVAC systems, and furnaces in particular, can last upwards of 15-20 years. I would bet almost anything I have that we'll see residential NG getting taxed hard in that timeframe due to its outsized impact on climate change. Some (progressive) areas are already starting to refuse permits for new NG infra. I mean, yes. However, in Vermont, electricity is quite expensive, and the weather gets very cold. And the poverty line, last I looked, was a fair bit higher than you'd expect. A carbon tax or forcing people to redo their heating solutions is going to be very problematic. I loved growing up in Vermont, but man, the disconnect there is astounding.
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Dec 11, 2020 20:04
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ScooterMcTiny posted:I’m curious - what are the dimensions of this kitchen? Can you link me to the thread where you’ve been posting, this looks great! Kitchen is weird in that it's sort of an open space with that and dining, the main difference is where the wood floor stops and current kitchen starts. New kitchen will be a few feet wider, not because I needed the space but the cabinets and appliances just line up better that way. Anyway, it's ballpark 13x13' for the current area. A floor plan with specifics is in the first post linked above. I paid these guys $500 to come up with the design - https://inspiredkitchendesign.com/. They specialize in Ikea which is why I went with them. They offer two additional revisions (so 3 total) which is how I ended this way. Here's post 1 and 2 with previous designs. I really really wanted an island, everyone said kitchen was too small. I think they were right as there were a few spots that were under 3' walkways which seemed tight. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3819901&userid=74051&perpage=40&pagenumber=4#post509928552 A follow up when I taped the floor off to see the design above: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3819901&userid=74051&perpage=40&pagenumber=4#post509931240 .. a more recent post with the same screenshots as above, and my experience of purchasing this last Sunday https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3819901&userid=74051&perpage=40&pagenumber=4#post510535856
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Dec 11, 2020 20:38
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Alarbus posted:Start factoring in your carbon tax payment! https://www.wcax.com/2020/12/10/burlington-city-council-to-vote-on-carbon-tax-charter-change/ They’d better be generating all their energy from renewables before they tax people heating their homes. Electricity from a coal power station is more polluting than a modern natural gas boiler by order of magnitude.
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Dec 11, 2020 21:11
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And why are they taxing consumers and not, you know, the providers of the gas? I know the answer but it's frustrating.
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Dec 11, 2020 21:37
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wooger posted:They’d better be generating all their energy from renewables before they tax people heating their homes. They used to buy a lot from hydro Quebec. No idea about now SpartanIvy posted:And why are they taxing consumers and not, you know, the providers of the gas? I know the answer but it's frustrating. Because Vermont.
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Dec 12, 2020 02:39
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falz posted:Kitchen is weird in that it's sort of an open space with that and dining, the main difference is where the wood floor stops and current kitchen starts. New kitchen will be a few feet wider, not because I needed the space but the cabinets and appliances just line up better that way. This is great thanks. We close on a home on Monday and a kitchen reno is on the short list of things to do and we are trying to think about various layouts and this matches pretty nicely.
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Dec 12, 2020 03:17
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Alarbus posted:And the poverty line, last I looked, was a fair bit higher than you'd expect. A carbon tax or forcing people to redo their heating solutions is going to be very problematic. It, like most taxes would disproportionately impact the lower and middle classes. Typical government meddling. I'm sure they'll 'make it fair by pairing it with a subsidy for new equipment that will exclusively benefit the wealthy (cough, solar and electric cars, cough)
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Dec 12, 2020 03:33
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(edit: moving to the quick questions thread)
ScamWhaleHolyGrail fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Dec 12, 2020 |
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Dec 12, 2020 16:06
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