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ChubbyChecker posted:I've read a story, which was probably made up, that during some bluffing operation a single German plane flew over a fake airfield that had dummy planes and dropped a wooden bomb on it. The most common version I've seen/heard was it was the British dropping the wooden bomb on a German airfield. But at the same time if you know that they're wasting effort on a fake why tell them about it?
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Dec 19, 2020 15:22
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Wasn't the wooden bomb thing to do more with intelligence and counter intelligence code breaking?
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Dec 19, 2020 15:28
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Taerkar posted:The most common version I've seen/heard was it was the British dropping the wooden bomb on a German airfield. But at the same time if you know that they're wasting effort on a fake why tell them about it? Because now they know they wasted effort, but they don't know why their effort was wasted.
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Dec 19, 2020 16:42
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Trick them into thinking the Allies have adopted ineffectual wooden bombs so they’ll have their guard down when the real strike comes
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Dec 19, 2020 16:44
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I also think that maybe the material to make inflatable dummy tanks with was a material they were probably short on.
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Dec 19, 2020 16:52
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Drachinifel has an new video that is pretty interesting, on what sank the HMS Hood. I'd always known it was a lucky (or unlucky) shot that destroyed her, and by Drachinifel's account it was that, but I didn't realize how lucky it was.
Nebakenezzer fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Dec 19, 2020 |
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Dec 19, 2020 23:16
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Taerkar posted:The most common version I've seen/heard was it was the British dropping the wooden bomb on a German airfield. But at the same time if you know that they're wasting effort on a fake why tell them about it? Makes them think twice about all their other fake programs, airfields, initiatives, etc Someone receiving a message saying "We've cracked your codes" can be pretty alarming.
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Dec 19, 2020 23:23
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Makes them think twice about all their other fake programs, airfields, initiatives, etc Revealing your cards to your enemy is not alarming, it's dumb. Making a pointless fake bomb run that could result in your own plane shot down is criminally stupid.
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Dec 19, 2020 23:28
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Milo and POTUS posted:What was that napoleonic era tactic battalion au feu or whatever Does that napoleonic guy still post here I bet he'd know
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Dec 19, 2020 23:56
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ChubbyChecker posted:I've read a story, which was probably made up, that during some bluffing operation a single German plane flew over a fake airfield that had dummy planes and dropped a wooden bomb on it. I've heard the wooden bomb story, it's got all the hallmarks of an old soldier's dit.
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Dec 20, 2020 00:14
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Nenonen posted:Revealing your cards to your enemy is not alarming, it's dumb. Making a pointless fake bomb run that could result in your own plane shot down is criminally stupid. Its a fake airfield, what's gonna shoot it down?
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Dec 20, 2020 00:44
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Its a fake airfield, what's gonna shoot it down? Quaker AA guns.
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Dec 20, 2020 00:51
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Its a fake airfield, what's gonna shoot it down? Interceptors, engine breakdowns, flak on the way. Would you take the mission?
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Dec 20, 2020 01:03
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Nenonen posted:Interceptors, engine breakdowns, flak on the way. Would you take the mission? They used a pilot made of pillows dressed in a worn-out uniform.
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Dec 20, 2020 01:33
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Nenonen posted:Interceptors, engine breakdowns, flak on the way. Would you take the mission? Boredom?
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Dec 20, 2020 01:49
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The Lone Badger posted:They used a pilot made of pillows dressed in a worn-out uniform. 
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Dec 20, 2020 02:00
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What did written communiques between the north vietnamese and the soviets look like? I guess what I'm asking is I know about the diacritic heavy latin script and am hoping there's a similar one but cyrillic
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Dec 20, 2020 02:43
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Nenonen posted:Interceptors, engine breakdowns, flak on the way. Would you take the mission? That's like saying a reconnaissance aircraft serves no purpose. Drop a fake bomb on the way to or back from a recon mission, EZ-PZ.
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Dec 20, 2020 02:44
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Memento posted:As an aside, I saw this on twitter not long ago 
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Dec 20, 2020 02:50
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Pls don’t steal my opening tinder line
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Dec 20, 2020 04:27
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Milo and POTUS posted:What did written communiques between the north vietnamese and the soviets look like? I guess what I'm asking is I know about the diacritic heavy latin script and am hoping there's a similar one but cyrillic I just did a cursory search and can't find anything like that ; it seems like it was either in Vietnamese or Russian (and probably Chinese and some other stuff). Which makes sense because it's easier to make a small number of people speak a new language than make a whole new kind of type-setting and alphabet, which is an elaborate pain in the rear end.
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Dec 20, 2020 04:31
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Nenonen posted:Interceptors, engine breakdowns, flak on the way. Would you take the mission? Saburo Sakai and two wingmen did loops over port Moresby after one mission. The British then flew one bomber to Rabaul and dropped a note thanking them for their performance and asking the Japanese to give them advance notice next time so that they could prepare a proper reception.
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Dec 20, 2020 05:12
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PeterCat posted:Saburo Sakai and two wingmen did loops over port Moresby after one mission. This is also 100% true Edit: more specifically I believe it was one of the three pilots that insisted it be done, Saburo abstaining, and the 3rd pilot joining in.
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Dec 20, 2020 05:17
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Jobbo_Fett posted:This is also 100% true I loved reading Samurai! as a kid. It seemed super interesting to read about "the other side". I dunno how much Sakai whitewashed his account of the war or if he as a navy airforce pilot was lucky to have been posted far enough away from where the IJA/IJN was committing atrocities, but it was a really interesting book. Also interesting was that it had all sorts of unicode errors, so there was a lot of corrupted wingdings instead of what the actual characters were supposed to be. It got me obsessed with playing the Zero in games like Aces High for a long time. But the Zero being paper and having like virtually no ammo (and me not having a proper joystick) soured me on the zero.
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Dec 20, 2020 05:26
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That's endemic to older publishing in the West of Asian languages. A lot of the stuff I reference for my dissertation has what are obviously blank-spaces and then someone hand-writing in a character into the space so it can xeroxed or whatever. This even lives on to this day where there are some characters that aren't unicode supported so my current draft has actually typed Chinese with the odd break of very, very carefully formatted tiny jpegs that I hope no one will ever notice. Not that this is just a language thing ; if you grab a random math dissertation from the 60's it's the same.
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Dec 20, 2020 05:37
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It's one of those very interesting oddities where you'd think they'd have worked out a standard but instead its like that one XKCD comic and there's 15 standards instead which is why issues still crop up. Playing some old Japanese games on windows is a similar pain because it can't read the filenames right half the time and it takes some combination of extracting it from the rar with the right encoding and having windows set to the right unicode region or some combination thereof.
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Dec 20, 2020 05:50
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Nah it's just inertia and how Western printing/computing has worked. It sucks butts and is super annoying but isn't exactly a mystery.
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Dec 20, 2020 06:22
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Raenir Salazar posted:It's one of those very interesting oddities where you'd think they'd have worked out a standard but instead its like that one XKCD comic and there's 15 standards instead which is why issues still crop up. Also just hours later, "No." Followed by, "This is dumb. And also no." Please god never talk to me about translation ever again. You were so ridiculous that I circled back to scold you. Just stay in your lane.
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Dec 20, 2020 09:00
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Xiahou Dun posted:Also just hours later, "No." https://twitter.com/dril/status/1131170113804103680 -- In thread relevant material, Warden's been doing Finlandposting and I thought i'd chip in with a couple of things. There's an interesting thing by Paavo Haavikko put forwards about the whole Russification period that acts as a explanation for the quick radicalization process in the country leading up to the declaration of independence in 1917. Essentially, a lot of people flipped on the idea of legalism in that period, after being treated something closer to a constituent part of Russia than an independent Grand Duchy that just happened to share a ruler with Russia. This leads to some rather awkward stuff, like how the Jäger movement was no-poo poo treasonous, going to an enemy nation to get military training and fighting on the other side of WW1, and this tends to be more or less ignored in Finnish history writing, especially when talking about earlier eras. Haavikko's argument was that a lot of people essentially saw legalism as very good as long as it benefited them, and decided that state authority was illegitimate the moment it stopped doing so. Combined with the collapse of the Russian state, this directly led to the condition where armed confrontation between socialists and conservatives was almost guaranteed. To hop a bit forward in the whole nationbuilding thing, this later on created narratives as Finns being an exploited nation under earlier Swedish rule, while the reality of things was that Sweden treated parts of Finland as integral and central parts of the state, mostly Western Finland which had good communications with the capital, and much of the rest was a similar periphery in Sweden as the backwoods parts of Sweden proper. These narratives also led, interestingly enough, to thoughts among right-wing conservatives in Finland that Finland had been a colonial nation, and there was a bunch of anti-colonialist thought in conservative circles. For instance the right-wing magazine Hakkapeliitta supported Ethiopia in the Ethiopian-Italian war and right-wing circles also arranged for aid for Ethiopia, which of course didn't affect the outcome but is an interesting aside. Later on of course Finland itself created ideas of doing a colonialism themselves in the parts of Karelia which remained under Soviet rule, but that's another story.
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Dec 20, 2020 11:26
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Kemper Boyd posted:
I was going to talk about that in the last part when I bring up the issue that the "heroic Jägers and the winners of the Freedom War" had in fact committed high treason in 1915-17 and in 1918 were all-in for turning Finland into a vassal state of Imperial Germany with no real sovereignty. quote:To hop a bit forward in the whole nationbuilding thing, this later on created narratives as Finns being an exploited nation under earlier Swedish rule, while the reality of things was that Sweden treated parts of Finland as integral and central parts of the state, mostly Western Finland which had good communications with the capital, and much of the rest was a similar periphery in Sweden as the backwoods parts of Sweden proper. These narratives also led, interestingly enough, to thoughts among right-wing conservatives in Finland that Finland had been a colonial nation, and there was a bunch of anti-colonialist thought in conservative circles. Yeah, I made a point of talking about Eastern Sweden or the eastern parts of the Swedish realm instead of "Finland" in the earlier parts because of that. People living here did have some cause for discontent though, as it was always the eastern part of the realm that got hosed by the Russians for centuries and most of the taxes went to fund Swedish wars elsewhere of develop the heartland of the nation. There was the whole Anjala conspiracy in 1788 due to Swedish officers in the east feeling that the crown was so incompetent that they had to take matters into their own hands.
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Dec 20, 2020 12:31
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Warden posted:Yeah, I made a point of talking about Eastern Sweden or the eastern parts of the Swedish realm instead of "Finland" in the earlier parts because of that. People living here did have some cause for discontent though, as it was always the eastern part of the realm that got hosed by the Russians for centuries and most of the taxes went to fund Swedish wars elsewhere of develop the heartland of the nation. There was the whole Anjala conspiracy in 1788 due to Swedish officers in the east feeling that the crown was so incompetent that they had to take matters into their own hands. I'll let you expand about the stuff about Jägers later but there's an interesting thread throughout history when it comes to the eastern parts of Finland in particular. We know from the tax rolls dating back to Älvsborg's ransom (the Perfidious Dane beat Sweden, Sweden had to to pay a gigantic ransom, in the order of a a third of their national income for 10 years or something in that order, to get their only western port back), that eastern Finland was one of the richer parts of Sweden back in the 16th-17th century. Slash and burn agriculture was labor intensive but ridiculously profitable compared to most other forms of agriculture at the time, so our national imagery of poor people in ratty cabins in the woods is wrong: these Savonians made bank. Later that wasn't possible anymore so it became a backward region. There was less discontent about Swedish rule in Finland Proper and Ostrobothnia, where the ties to Sweden were more concrete in nature and the trade structure profited the locals a lot. For instance, Kemiö island was a huge iron manufacturing center servicing the mines of the Stockholm archipelago and Stockholm heated itself with wood and fed itself with fish that was shipped over from the Åboland archipelago region. The issue about discontent towards Stockholm is more present in the periphery than Finland Proper. During the time period when Russia was weak and Sweden was ascendant, the conditions in Eastern Finland were a lot more stable. It's not really before the defeat in the Great Northern War and the following failed shitfest wars of the 18th century when Eastern Finland starts to go into the toilet.
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Dec 20, 2020 13:04
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Jobbo_Fett posted:This is also 100% true The funniest part about the whole thing is the Japanese pilots thinking they got away with it and the British NARCing on them to the Japanese command. It really is the perfect way to get back them for the taunt.
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Dec 20, 2020 13:48
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PeterCat posted:The funniest part about the whole thing is the Japanese pilots thinking they got away with it and the British NARCing on them to the Japanese command. It really is the perfect way to get back them for the taunt. Found the actual quote in the book quote:We gathered in a formation with only a few scant feet between our wing tips. I slid my canopy back, described a ring over my head with my finger, then showed them three fingers. Both pilots raised their hands in acknowledgment. We were to fly three loops, all tied together.
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Dec 20, 2020 19:55
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Xiahou Dun posted:Also just hours later, "No." If you see something wrong with what he wrote, you can say what it is. Saying "no you're wrong" is not a very productive way to have a conversation, being a dick about it doubly so. This isn't the first time I've seen unnecessary hostility from you, so consider this a final warning before I start taking measures.
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Dec 21, 2020 00:54
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Fair. I'll try to be more polite.
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Dec 21, 2020 00:58
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Kemper Boyd posted:Later on of course Finland itself created ideas of doing a colonialism themselves in the parts of Karelia which remained under Soviet rule, but that's another story. Surely they were merely trying to liberate the inhabitants of Very-East Finland, who were of course entirely indistinguishably Finnish from the rest of Finland's Finnish people.
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Dec 21, 2020 03:04
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You don't have to go across the border for Finnish colonialism, it's not like Finns haven't been exploiting Lapland for resources and trying to assimilate the indigenous people there. Even today it's easy for capitalists in Helsinki to dream of building a railroad to connection to the Barents Sea, ah the reindeer herders will have to adjust!
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Dec 21, 2020 05:07
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Nenonen posted:You don't have to go across the border for Finnish colonialism, it's not like Finns haven't been exploiting Lapland for resources and trying to assimilate the indigenous people there. Even today it's easy for capitalists in Helsinki to dream of building a railroad to connection to the Barents Sea, ah the reindeer herders will have to adjust! Don't get me started on the Finnish state's past attempts to take Sámi children away from their parents, force them to live at schools and use physical punishments if they were caught talking their native tongue. Also digging up their ancestral tombs and taking the skulls away to Helsinki to be measured. Then again, we mostly gave them back, Swedish universities still refuse to give back the skulls they stole from Finnish tombs to prove that we were an inferior race.
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Dec 21, 2020 07:56
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Warden posted:Don't get me started on the Finnish state's past attempts to take Sámi children away from their parents, force them to live at schools and use physical punishments if they were caught talking their native tongue. Also digging up their ancestral tombs and taking the skulls away to Helsinki to be measured. The efforts to "finnify" the Sámi especially through, e.g., banning of the Sámi languages in schools were some old-school racist poo poo. The effects of these efforts are still felt today: In modern Finnish legislation, the Sámi people have limited local autonomy through their own parliament and there's a fairly complex system of special rights afforded to them in certain areas of Finnish Lapland. What is extremely unfortunate is that these rights are tied to the status of a person as a Sámi. As humans tend to do stupid human stuff, a two-tier system has emerged where historically Sámi families who Finnified (i.e. started speaking Finnish) are denied the official Sámi status despite having always lived as part of the Sámi communities and self-identifying as Sámi. There are both political and financial incentives for those in control of the Sámi parliament to limit who gets to participate in local politics and who gets to enjoy from the rights afforded to the "Officially Sámi". I'm related to some affected people through marriage, and it's infuriating to see how people from an undeniably Sámi background are denied their culture and the associated rights just because their parents' parents started speaking Finnish after decades of pressure and concentrated efforts from the national government. E: Sorry, not really milhist.
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Dec 21, 2020 13:26
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Cyrano4747 posted:Since you're already expressing your hatred of aristocrats in addition to the good suggestions above you might want to check out Poilu by thread patron saint Louis Barthas You understood my question perfectly, thanks for this recommendation I have just started it and it's really my speed.
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Dec 21, 2020 15:23
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