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So I finally got around to reading Last Stand of The Tin Can Sailors (it owns, BTW), and how on earth has it not been made into a movie or miniseries yet? Is it because it'd mean depicting Halsey as a fuckup if you wanted to be historically accurate?
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Dec 22, 2020 18:51
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The lone squiggle out west seems to be the California Central Railroad, incorporated April 21 1857, completed October 31 1861 between Folsom and Lincoln. Not to be confused with the California Central Railway of southern California.
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Dec 22, 2020 18:59
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Cessna posted:The Union did do cavalry raids. The Chambersburg/Chickahominy raid of 1862, or Grierson's Raid (part of Vicksburg) for examples. But, yes, they weren't as common, or as into rounding up innocent people and forcing them into slavery. Yeah sorry, didn't mean to discount them. What I meant was that for the North cavalry raids were generally an activity in conjunction with a larger army campaign for the purpose of supporting the success of that campaign, whereas in the South raiding was a strategic task in itself (to take the fight to Northern soil and impact war support).
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Dec 22, 2020 19:17
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Alchenar posted:Yeah sorry, didn't mean to discount them. What I meant was that for the North cavalry raids were generally an activity in conjunction with a larger army campaign for the purpose of supporting the success of that campaign, whereas in the South raiding was a strategic task in itself (to take the fight to Northern soil and impact war support). Agreed, well said.
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Dec 22, 2020 19:23
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Not steel yet, as the Bessemer process had been proven but not operationalized. But there were improvements in metallurgy and processes with cast and wrought iron. The Confederates managed to produce a number of knock off Parrott rifles. The basic tech behind them isn't complex from a metallurgy perspective but they are a bit more complex than a bronze gun. The basic idea is you surround the breach with wrought iron which is stronger than cast. Since that is where most of the pressure pushing on the barrel is, by strengthening just that area it's less prone to explode in a way the crew wouldn't like. By all accounts, the Southern knock offs were more prone to barrels bursting. But the upside to them is that they were pretty cheap to make. Union producers were making them for around $180 a gun vs the $600 a 12 pounder cost. You get better accuracy with the Parrott but it's canister is less effective. Where the South really struggled was trying to make knock offs of the 3 inch Ordnance gun. One of the big issues with using wrought iron is that when you use a hammer to form it, you don't get uniform strength. So the weak bits eventually crack. Sometimes violently. So with the 3 inch Ordnance gun, what Griffen figured out, and what Reeves improved was, that if you take a core of wrought iron and then wrap bars (later sheets) around it, you can then reheat the whole thing and weld it together. That gets a much more uniform strength. The part the South struggled with was the next bit. Where you basically drill out the center. And all of the wrought iron core were drilled out. The north struggled with it as well. The original Griffen guns only had one good barrel for every three attempts. They got it up to 60% but it was Reeve's variation that got much high production results. The accounts I've read seem to indicate that the Parrott rifles were considered slightly more accurate but the 3 inch Ordnance guns were much more desirable because they didn't blow up.
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Dec 22, 2020 19:25
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Bob Stockon’s failure to replicate a built‐up gun killed two cabinet secretaries in 1844. It’s a shame that John Ericsson, who built the good gun that Stockton ineptly aped, caught flak for the incident. He would later go on to design the Monitor.
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Dec 22, 2020 19:34
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Yvonmukluk posted:So I finally got around to reading Last Stand of The Tin Can Sailors (it owns, BTW), and how on earth has it not been made into a movie or miniseries yet? You'd have to depict the Americans making the mistakes that exposed Taffy 3 to attack in the first place.
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Dec 22, 2020 22:10
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Morholt posted:Why did Warspite have casemate guns? I thought those were obsolete post Dreadnought. Were they used at all in bombardments? In addition to what was previously said about casemates specifically, Dreadnought's revolution is less about casemates than about large-caliber secondary guns. Dreadnought herself eschewed the mixed battery but retained a number of small weapons to deter torpedo boats. As torpedo boats (and destroyers) rapidly grew in size and torpedoes in range, battleships required larger guns with heavier shells and greater ranges to keep the torpedo threat at bay.
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Dec 23, 2020 00:09
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Yvonmukluk posted:So I finally got around to reading Last Stand of The Tin Can Sailors (it owns, BTW), and how on earth has it not been made into a movie or miniseries yet? I've thought about this on and off for a long time, and I think it comes down to the simple fact it'd be a hard film to write and even harder to film. Not impossible, but difficult enough that it would deter all but the most dedicated screenwriter, and (to date) all directors and production companies.
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Dec 23, 2020 01:25
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Acebuckeye13 posted:I've thought about this on and off for a long time, and I think it comes down to the simple fact it'd be a hard film to write and even harder to film. Not impossible, but difficult enough that it would deter all but the most dedicated screenwriter, and (to date) all directors and production companies.
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Dec 23, 2020 01:44
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Did Greyhound even released in theaters before covid shut it all down? I don't think you can measure anything by it. And Midway just sucked.
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Dec 23, 2020 02:11
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Can’t imagine Halsey is a big enough name to the average person that they’d be upset if he was portrayed poorly
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Dec 23, 2020 02:38
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Yvonmukluk posted:So I finally got around to reading Last Stand of The Tin Can Sailors (it owns, BTW), and how on earth has it not been made into a movie or miniseries yet? THE WORLD WONDERS
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Dec 23, 2020 02:46
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Thanks everyone for the incredible detail about ACW era cannons, that was way more than I expected. Followup question: How did gunners track their own shots to check accuracy? Were they using telescopes or naked eye? I was comparing landmarks to the map and I doubt I could see a shot land more than 1000yds out. I'd blame the light fog but probably gettin old.
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Dec 23, 2020 03:53
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Cessna posted:I'm not a big ASL fan,* but I'd be happy to go against you in any number of other hex-and-counter wargames. *Stares at his pdf collection of scenarios and VASSAL-engine platform module* Yeah...
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Dec 23, 2020 04:03
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oXDemosthenesXo posted:Thanks everyone for the incredible detail about ACW era cannons, that was way more than I expected. E: hopefully corrected bad math Kaiser Schnitzel fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Dec 23, 2020 |
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Dec 23, 2020 04:13
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:There are anecdotes I recall from the Napoleonic era (with somewhat lower muzzle velocities vs ACW per Cessna) of a glancing hit from round shot that had already bounced once or twice still tearing an arm or leg completely off. And of course the stories of soldiers seeing a bouncing cannonball "slowly" making its way toward their line, so they stick a foot out to stop it...
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Dec 23, 2020 04:36
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Are there any reenactments that fire actual shot and not just powder charges? I really want to see this now.
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Dec 23, 2020 04:41
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oXDemosthenesXo posted:Are there any reenactments that fire actual shot and not just powder charges? I really want to see this now. Hyneman and Savage et al. demonstrated it.
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Dec 23, 2020 04:45
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oXDemosthenesXo posted:Are there any reenactments that fire actual shot and not just powder charges? I really want to see this now. This video is great. I think they are firing round shot, but somehow it still looks like explosions. Also that noise..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL1DkrYL70s E: Also pretty impressive accuracy-they're clearly at several hundred yards and directly hit the target APC plenty of times. And it appears to be a smoothbore gun? Definitely not a Parrot or Ordnance Rifle. Kaiser Schnitzel fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Dec 23, 2020 |
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Dec 23, 2020 04:52
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:And of course the stories of soldiers seeing a bouncing cannonball "slowly" making its way toward their line, so they stick a foot out to stop it... This'd be either the best or worst World Cup. Also this post and your av saying "Hubris" is a great combo.
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Dec 23, 2020 04:52
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How much KE as rotation does a cannonball end up with? Did land artillery volley-fire at a common elevation and orientation like naval guns so they could see where their shot landed, or did each gun fire as fast as it could and choose their elevation etc as they felt best? The Lone Badger fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Dec 23, 2020 |
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Dec 23, 2020 04:53
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oXDemosthenesXo posted:Are there any reenactments that fire actual shot and not just powder charges? I really want to see this now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iy7fSxFpAA
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Dec 23, 2020 04:53
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Judging by the recoil in this vs. the video I linked above, it seems like they must be using pretty light charges in this video? Or maybe there is something different in the guns/carriages?
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Dec 23, 2020 04:59
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What about in person demonstrations? I've seen plenty of videos of cannons but I want the sound/feeling of a black powder cannon.
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Dec 23, 2020 05:10
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FMguru posted:Also, there's no real demonstrated market demand for WWII naval movies. MIDWAY and GREYHOUND didn't exactly do gangbuster business. Did anybody see Greyhound? I wanted to watch it, but I don't have Apple plus or whatever it is that would let me actually see it.
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Dec 23, 2020 07:11
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I saw it and quite enjoyed it, although at this point I basically just remember Tom Hanks yelling HARD TO PORT for an hour and a half. I've been told by people in the Navy that it's a pretty accurate depiction of what it's like to be on the bridge of a surface combatant in a combat situation.
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Dec 23, 2020 07:24
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oXDemosthenesXo posted:What about in person demonstrations? I've seen plenty of videos of cannons but I want the sound/feeling of a black powder cannon. Firing Napoleonic artillery should be an Olympic sport. Add horses and time to move, unlimber, deploy, fire, hit the target, reload and fire 3 times, relimber and get back to the start line. Comstar fucked around with this message at 07:50 on Dec 23, 2020 |
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Dec 23, 2020 07:44
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Did anybody see Greyhound? I wanted to watch it, but I don't have Apple plus or whatever it is that would let me actually see it. I've heard good things from people who are both into WWII navy stuff and people who aren't, but I haven't watched it myself cause I'm not gonna get a whole new streaming service for one movie that I don't even think I'd like. (As in personally like because it's not my preferred genre, not that I think it's bad. My interest in milhist movies starts to fade after the 18th century and then just craters post-WWI, but that's not a condemnation or nothing, just my own specific taste.)
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Dec 23, 2020 07:45
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Comstar posted:Firing Napoleonic artillery should be an Olympic sport. Add horses and time to move, unlimber, deploy, fire, hit the target, reload and fire 3 times, relimber and get back to the start line. Sadly there's no shooting but yeah. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lhx6Q3WuvU
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Dec 23, 2020 08:16
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Arrinien posted:I saw it and quite enjoyed it, although at this point I basically just remember Tom Hanks yelling HARD TO PORT for an hour and a half. I've been told by people in the Navy that it's a pretty accurate depiction of what it's like to be on the bridge of a surface combatant in a combat situation.
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Dec 23, 2020 09:00
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oXDemosthenesXo posted:What about in person demonstrations? I've seen plenty of videos of cannons but I want the sound/feeling of a black powder cannon. I've been around them several times. They're much louder than you expect them to be. A 2-pounder firing a quarter charge was enough to make it feel like an ice pick was jammed in my ear when I didn't cover it while standing 20 yards away.
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Dec 23, 2020 09:22
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With black powder cannons having that much energy... how modern a tank would you need to be able to shrug off a direct hit from a black powder cannon - say a Napoleonic one? Obviously a modern tank would ignore it, but would a T-34? A sherman? A Renault FT? Nothingtoseehere fucked around with this message at 10:41 on Dec 23, 2020 |
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Dec 23, 2020 10:18
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The hundred‐tonne guns could smoke a Maus.
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Dec 23, 2020 10:26
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The major issue you're going to get is spalling, right? When did spall liners become a significant thing?
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Dec 23, 2020 10:28
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Platystemon posted:The hundred‐tonne guns could smoke a Maus. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKmi0PN7LxM "Oh hey royal navy buy my big guns" "No" "Okay I sold them to the Italian navy and now they have bigger guns than you" "poo poo" "So now you will buy my guns?" "Of course, have a peerage and some medals too old chap"
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Dec 23, 2020 10:40
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oXDemosthenesXo posted:What about in person demonstrations? I've seen plenty of videos of cannons but I want the sound/feeling of a black powder cannon. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 11:09 on Dec 23, 2020 |
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Dec 23, 2020 11:05
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Comstar posted:Firing Napoleonic artillery should be an Olympic sport. Add horses and time to move, unlimber, deploy, fire, hit the target, reload and fire 3 times, relimber and get back to the start line.
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Dec 23, 2020 11:06
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chitoryu12 posted:I've been around them several times. They're much louder than you expect them to be. A 2-pounder firing a quarter charge was enough to make it feel like an ice pick was jammed in my ear when I didn't cover it while standing 20 yards away. if they didn't tell you that's their fault. There are a lot of reenactors who have just awful safety. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 11:14 on Dec 23, 2020 |
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Dec 23, 2020 11:07
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I had this tab open from the other day when we were discussing advances in metallurgy applicable to cannons, and it’s a good look at one such advancement. Cool your castings from the inside and they’ll be stronger.
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Dec 23, 2020 11:07
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