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Combat Pretzel posted:Apparently if you're using SteamVR, you're supposed to start SteamVR first before the game. There seems to be an issue where it drops frames. Sure seemed like it when I exited the game and dropped into SteamVR void, which had the same judder. I'll try that. I did get VR to start finally. It did not look good, and turning my head left me looking at the SteamVR Theater for a half second before the landscape fills in. So I fired up IL-2 and flew a U-2 night bomber mission. When the AA tracers start to come up and the searchlights have you, that's one hell of an immersive experience in VR.
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Dec 24, 2020 03:06
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Combat Pretzel posted:Apparently if you're using SteamVR, you're supposed to start SteamVR first before the game. There seems to be an issue where it drops frames. Sure seemed like it when I exited the game and dropped into SteamVR void, which had the same judder. Thanks for this, this helped immensely. Runs pretty smoothly with only slight hiccups here and there, the world is pretty blurry though to accomplish smoothness and I'm pretty sure the blurriness caused me a headache/eye strain. Sacrificing prettiness for immersiveness.
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Dec 24, 2020 05:53
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So what is it about Sim games that make it so hard to get decent frame rates? Would it be possible to toss enough money at a build to get the VR working smoothly and with decent visuals?
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Dec 24, 2020 06:16
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sigher posted:So what is it about Sim games that make it so hard to get decent frame rates? Would it be possible to toss enough money at a build to get the VR working smoothly and with decent visuals? Can someone post the Austin Meyer FPS rant again for posterity? I’m going to guess the answer is “yes, but drat” - running in VR smoothly with good visuals is probably approaching some of the more expensive consumer hardware you can get. I have a 1080Ti and I don’t expect it’ll really shine in VR, and that’s still not a bad card for most everything else today - RDR2, cyberpunk, etc. Sim games love to go crazy with visuals and it’s rendering huge areas and trying to be accurate. I think it’s mostly a matter of scale, but then also rendering a crazy detailed 3D cockpit and all.
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Dec 24, 2020 06:33
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sigher posted:So what is it about Sim games that make it so hard to get decent frame rates? Would it be possible to toss enough money at a build to get the VR working smoothly and with decent visuals? Most video games render things around the player in a bubble and don’t simulate much of anything besides that. Sims model large amounts of space and various actors on that space and can’t just freeze whatever the game doesn’t show for the player. You can definitely run FS2020 in VR just fine on a decent PC. All maxed out everywhere in the world in VR? No. And that’s good, the game will be around for a decade likely, so it has to have room to grow to. Simulators such as car driving ones, or flight sims like IL-2 Great Battles series, or War Thunder, run well because while they still simulate a lot of stuff, they severely limit the scope by only having relatively tiny areas within any instance of the game. Sims like Falcon BMS had unique ”player bubble” techs that allowed it to revert to rough math approximation whenever a human was not near some area. With even a small amount of humans intentionally spreading far and thin in the game world, the simulator took rapid nosedives in performance and ticks. Thing is, medium-low settings in VR look breathtaking in this game as you follow your own street to overfly your house, or when you bust through holes in the cloud cover and dance in the sky. It’s really otherworldly. Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 07:28 on Dec 24, 2020 |
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Dec 24, 2020 06:57
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Disregarding all the calculation that has to happen just to run the simulation, the graphics requirements are still just so demanding because simulators are aiming to be realistic and not just immersive. There's a lot of fiddling over terrain details that you might never scrutinize in detail... or you might. There's a ton of fuss over how the sky looks with clouds and the atmosphere. Bask in people posting about the position of celestial objects: https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/stars/281713/17 Somebody is going to expect the stars and planets to be in the right places. A non-simulator game can just vomit a skybox. Apparently FS2020 isn't doing the planets right now but it has most everything else and the effect of light pollution on it.
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Dec 24, 2020 08:26
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Vahakyla posted:Thing is, medium-low settings in VR look breathtaking in this game as you follow your own street to overfly your house, or when you bust through holes in the cloud cover and dance in the sky. It’s really otherworldly. It can be, but my 2080 can't even keep a steady 60 in VR with everything set to low and even the render scaling at 40. It's just crazy how this game doesn't give a gently caress about what you're running, you ain't gonna be hitting that 60. Like, I wouldn't mind if I could even get the game running 60 with all details on low except render scaling and be able to read the cockpit. I'm tempted to build a PC and just go balls to the wall with hardware in the coming year just to achieve 100% render resolution and smooth frames in VR, the rest of the settings I don't care for. How far out does the game simulate? And does performance tank in large cities not just because of the added visual fidelity needed to render, but also because of the added calculations due to all of the structures?
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Dec 24, 2020 09:10
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FS2020 is heavily CPU-bound. Like to the point that you pretty much cannot get more than 60fps with high graphics settings no matter how much GPU you throw at it. I suspect that rendering the world is actually relatively lightweight, but decoding all the world data in the first place is the real killer. When you fly over a photogrammetry city you are loading unique geometry and textures for every pixel and polygon in the entire scene. That, plus the sheer size of the area that has to be rendered, is what makes it run so much worse than other modern pretty games like CoD, where you can design the maps to limit what the player can see, and you can reuse assets all over the place. It's also just poor coding. You can turn on the dev tools and look at the performance graph and there's one thread called MainThread that is always the limiter when you have a decent GPU. If they'd split out whatever that thread is doing into a couple of parallel tasks it would probably help a lot. I have 12 physical cores and eight of them are idling while MainThread is screaming away. Sigh
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Dec 24, 2020 09:19
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Sagebrush posted:FS2020 is heavily CPU-bound. Like to the point that you pretty much cannot get more than 60fps with high graphics settings no matter how much GPU you throw at it. I suspect that rendering the world is actually relatively lightweight, but decoding all the world data in the first place is the real killer. When you fly over a photogrammetry city you are loading unique geometry and textures for every pixel and polygon in the entire scene. That, plus the sheer size of the area that has to be rendered, is what makes it run so much worse than other modern pretty games like CoD or whatever, where you can design the maps to limit what the player can see, and you can reuse assets all over the place. I can't believe this - I mean, what, do you think they just started with FSX code and built off of that entirely? That game has massive issues and is 10 years old. ... Oh. Ooooh.
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Dec 24, 2020 09:22
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Anime Store Adventure posted:I can't believe this - I mean, what, do you think they just started with FSX code and built off of that entirely? That game has massive issues and is 10 years old. *glares at DCS devs*
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Dec 24, 2020 09:32
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Anime Store Adventure posted:I can't believe this - I mean, what, do you think they just started with FSX code and built off of that entirely? That game has massive issues and is 10 years old. MFS uses the same graphics engine as the Forza and Forza Horizon games.
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Dec 24, 2020 09:43
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In regards to the poor coding, is that something that we'll see fixed or it's just "Well it's par for the course in the Flight Sim game so gently caress it"/it's too much work to fix? We probably won't get any Vulkan performance boosts from this either since DirectX is MS' thing and they probably don't give a poo poo do they?
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Dec 24, 2020 10:40
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Just saw that the latest update gets VR, finally. Gonna reinstall it now that I'm done with Cyberpunk and try it out. On an i5-3470 and 1070. Wish me luck 
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Dec 24, 2020 11:21
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From the OSHA thread. https://v.redd.it/jjztsjkkrj661/DASH_480.mp4
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Dec 24, 2020 11:52
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lobsterminator posted:From the OSHA thread. Oh, for that as a POI...
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Dec 24, 2020 12:31
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sigher posted:It can be, but my 2080 can't even keep a steady 60 in VR with everything set to low and even the render scaling at 40. I have a i5-9600K with no overclock, a 2080 super, with 32 gigs of 3000mhz memory. I get smooth 45fps in VR with odyssey plus around mid tier cities and the bush. In huge cities, it is about 30 frames per second. Because of the reprojection, the 45fps feels perfectly smooth and the headset stays locked to it, and the 30fps is smooth-ish with some stutters as you turn your head a lot. My render scale is 100 percent and settings medium-lowish with all car and boat and people traffic at 20%.
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Dec 24, 2020 14:33
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Vahakyla posted:I have a i5-9600K with no overclock, a 2080 super, with 32 gigs of 3000mhz memory. I have a very similar setup (same cpu and ram, 3060 ti) and found that I was able to bump the settings to high with 120% scaling and get very similar results. Since the game is so CPU bound, the difference between low and high settings is pretty minimal with a solid GPU. One thing I found is that TAA is an absolute must. The game defaults to FXAA for VR but there's just so much shimmering and there seems to be some sort of shadow noise that gets locked to head orientation with FXAA. I have a Rift S and while the experience was surprisingly good, even with the full stripe RGB display the resolution just wasn't high enough for details outside of the cockpit. Fayez Butts fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Dec 24, 2020 |
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Dec 24, 2020 16:37
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Frame rates are far higher in a Cessna 152 than in a tubeliner. While volumetric clouds and such place an undeniable strain upon the GPU I'd wager frame rate issues have a lot less to do with simulation of aeronautics and a lot more to do with simulating eight tabs of Google. loving. Chrome., one for each glass flight display and one for each loving seven-segment LED! Yes I am mad. Because a lot of that CPU load comes from the stupidest place imaginable.
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Dec 24, 2020 19:07
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Wait what? Glass panels are rendered on actual instances of chrome? Lol gently caress software devs are lazy and stupid.
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Dec 24, 2020 20:37
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EvilJoven posted:Wait what? Glass panels are rendered on actual instances of chrome? Lol gently caress software devs are lazy and stupid. With a 3090 and 9700k at all ultra 1440p ultra wide, I can get about 65-70 FPS at cruise if I'm external to the cockpit. Going into the cockpit even with Low refresh rate drops that down to 45, with really weird frame time behavior because of the thread managing the panel refresh rate. That said it definitely seems to make the modders' jobs easier.
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Dec 24, 2020 20:44
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It is an incredibly poorly made piece of software.
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Dec 24, 2020 20:54
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it's not literally Chrome but it's basically the same thing. A web browser-like JavaScript and HTML toolkit called CoherentUI that is optimized for use in videogames for menus and UIs and things like that. Hence "simulating" Chrome 
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Dec 24, 2020 21:01
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EvilJoven posted:Wait what? Glass panels are rendered on actual instances of chrome? Lol gently caress software devs are lazy and stupid. Using Chromium to render the glass cockpit isn't so much an issue. The issue is that it seems to run on the main render thread instead of separate. Reducing the rendering frame rate of the glass panels improves the game's total framerate. A hack initially found by the community, then later adopted by the devs. It should just render separately on a different thread and supply the final textures. Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Dec 24, 2020 |
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Dec 24, 2020 21:41
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Vahakyla posted:I have a i5-9600K with no overclock, a 2080 super, with 32 gigs of 3000mhz memory. I've got an i9-9980HK, 2080 and 64GB of RAM in my laptop; maybe I'm just thermal throttling but I don't think so. However, I think it might be the way my Index is connected, I don't have a full-sized Display Port, but I do have a Thunderbolt 3 USB-C port with built-in Display Port. However, it looks like the throughput of that port isn't enough or something because my frames in the Index are all over with Orange and Red Spikes no matter what FPS I set the Index to. In the preview window on the computer the tracking actually looks quite smooth but I think the frames aren't being pumped over to the headset via the port quickly enough and it's bottlenecking.
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Dec 24, 2020 22:46
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Combat Pretzel posted:A whole lot of the simulation parts are in TypeScript and WebAssembly, actually. 
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Dec 25, 2020 01:04
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mllaneza posted:Oh, for that as a POI... It is, though I don't know which version of the game you need. Edit: at least I think that's the one. Would need to do a side by side to be sure
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Dec 25, 2020 08:16
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If anyone considers getting the Ovation, here's my opinion: it's fun, get it. It is modelled quite lovely, with lots of little cosmetic details. It is very quick and nimble, with a roll rate and maneuverability so surprising that I needed to double-check that the sim rate wasn't accelerated. Landings and take-offs are easy, although the groud handling is a bit odd; on the tarmac, the plane feels a little bit as though it was on ice. It also doesn't lose speed quickly, so on some approaches you might need to start out slow or side slip a little it more. The dashboard is beautiful, what with its mix of digital and analogue gauges. The avionics suite has everything you need for IFR including an autopilot. The autopilot is pretty interesting even, given that it has a mode where you can control the pitch of the aircraft. The avionics are a little more complex than in the Skyhawk though, and I haven't yet figured out how to get a control which data go into which navigation instrument. If you're using NeoFly, it's a fine addition to a 'young' company since it's a clear upgrade from the Skyhawk (curiously, NeoFly let's it buy you super cheaply). So in summar it's beautiful, it's fast, it's capable, get it.
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Dec 25, 2020 14:20
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What's wrong with that? WebAssembly is just a different format to dump native code into (from things like C/C++ and so on), there's even WASM versions of the Visual Studio runtimes. And TypeScript gets JIT'd to native code. Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Dec 25, 2020 |
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Dec 25, 2020 14:45
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Lord Stimperor posted:If anyone considers getting the Ovation, here's my opinion: it's fun, get it. Was on the fence on purchasing it, but you just convinced me to do it.
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Dec 25, 2020 15:03
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Combat Pretzel posted:What's wrong with that? You seem misinformed, WASM is a VM that runs bytecode. Combat Pretzel posted:And TypeScript gets JIT'd to native code. And yet WASM only exists because JS wasn't performant enough, curious!
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Dec 25, 2020 17:31
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Is there any source for that statement that the simulation uses typescript compiled down to wasm? Using typescript to wasm for the graphical panels makes sense to me, but for physics simulations that seems a bit odd.
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Dec 25, 2020 17:37
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TypeScript doesn't get compiled down to WASM, it gets translated to JavaScript and in MSFS that JavaScript code gets executed by CoherentUI's JavaScript interpreter for the purposes of driving the HTML cockpit displays. "HTML cockpit displays" is a fairly cursed sentence in its own right but at least it's only a video game. SpaceX's real life manned rockets have an on-board Chrome user interface. They actually brag about this.
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Dec 25, 2020 19:42
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Sapozhnik posted:TypeScript doesn't get compiled down to WASM, it gets translated to JavaScript and in MSFS that JavaScript code gets executed by CoherentUI's JavaScript interpreter for the purposes of driving the HTML cockpit displays. I think I’m gonna go ahead and trust literal rocket scientists over some goon and say if they are using it it’s probably alright.
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Dec 25, 2020 20:14
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BMan posted:You seem misinformed, WASM is a VM that runs bytecode. BMan posted:And yet WASM only exists because JS wasn't performant enough, curious! So eh. Sapozhnik posted:TypeScript doesn't get compiled down to WASM, it gets translated to JavaScript and in MSFS that JavaScript code gets executed by CoherentUI's JavaScript interpreter for the purposes of driving the HTML cockpit displays. Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Dec 25, 2020 |
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Dec 25, 2020 23:02
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If the flat panels are chrome, can someone add a new tab/page option to look for hot singles in my area when I’m on long cruises?
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Dec 25, 2020 23:42
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Sapozhnik posted:TypeScript doesn't get compiled down to WASM, it gets translated to JavaScript and in MSFS that JavaScript code gets executed by CoherentUI's JavaScript interpreter for the purposes of driving the HTML cockpit displays. The SpaceX thing is probably fine. Each display is probably it's own embedded device. It ends up being a shitshow in MSFS because the airliners have 8 of the fuckers and they're all seem to be on the same core. Anime Store Adventure posted:If the flat panels are chrome, can someone add a new tab/page option to look for hot singles in my area when I’m on long cruises? I know there's at least a mod to read twitch chat and play twitch alerts on your MFDs.
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Dec 26, 2020 00:08
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Anime Store Adventure posted:If the flat panels are chrome, can someone add a new tab/page option to look for hot singles in my area when I’m on long cruises? Yes but you won't be able to approach them.
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Dec 26, 2020 02:39
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I'm really sad that after finally getting a good HMD to discover that AMD's support for WMR is abysmal and their drivers crash constantly when using it. I'll have to wait god knows how many months for geforce 30 cards to become available. This process has illuminated part of the reason why VR has struggled to catch on. If one of the big two hardware manufacturer's support for VR is "basically none" this many years into the current wave, then just lmao. but also lol @ amd in general. their drivers always find new ways to impress. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Dec 26, 2020 |
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Dec 26, 2020 03:57
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AMD is basically out of the picture for a lot of picture. Their mainstream card, the 5700-series, had a random black screen error which they were unable to figure out for a long time. Their WMR support sucks, and they consistently have driver issues. It’s fair to say that gaming has one GPU manufacturer right now. AMD isn’t a serious contender. AMD CPU houses is that chad meme, while AMD GPU folks are the virgins.
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Dec 26, 2020 09:11
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5700xt owner here. Just started getting random crashes in MSFS when it’d actually been running really stable previously, so now I get to try and work out if it’s the latest MSFS update or the most recent drivers update that’s causing it (or both!). I’ve been reasonably happy with the card performance wise when it works (not trying to do any VR stuff though) but it’s always fun trying to second guess whether to update drivers or not, so the struggle is definitely real.
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Dec 26, 2020 09:58
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