Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
BonoMan
Feb 20, 2002

Jade Ear Joe

Pick posted:

I agree, Soul is a big step up from Onward. I'd put it below Inside Out, which frankly I didn't like, but well above Onward, which is a profoundly "Secret Life of Pets 2" level forgettable film with no sense of scale. I was about to say that Onward was a "Sony-esque" film, but Sony's now done some really good film (their visuals have always been stellar, back to Surf's Up, but I tend to think of them as perfunctory in the story department).

We watch Disney+ a lot here and occasionally put on Onward from time to time when it's suggested. I'm just really surprised it got *that* far being that forgettable and bad.

I mean hell, The Good Dinosaur did an almost full reset at nearly 80% completion because they realized it just. wasn't. working. And they got one of my favorite Pixar movies out of that effort (granted it took a couple of viewings before I really felt it... but I love it now).

How did Onward go from start to finish like that? Geez.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
The Good Dinosaur is a mess and a clear scrap of a nebulous "something else". Which at least gives you something to chew on.

Onward is just perfunctory. Which is the worst kind of manifestation of a genuinely affecting story about having two words of your dead parent's voice on a tape you found (in the real world). It feels like that's what they meant to make, and... that's, uh. too bad.

Hawkperson
Jun 20, 2003

To Soul's credit (music discussion, not story spoilers, but it kind of necessarily mentions characters and scenes? idk I'll spoiler it to be safe) they did a whole hell of a lot of work on the music stuff. The saxophone stuff is Tia Fuller and they very faithfully recreated her sax down to the specific ligature she uses. The piano-playing shots are Jon Batiste's hands and as someone who has watched far too much Colbert during quarantine, it's very clearly his hands and his unique piano playing style. I'm super curious to know if they had Fuller and Batiste play together for Joe's audition and if they also surprised Batiste to make it realistic (the "wait what are we playing?? ok I guess I'll use my ears" stuff).

The intro and the middle school band stuff are also literally a middle school band, the nerd band director groups I'm in are all aflutter about it and that band director has been actively sharing tidbits about how recording went. He said they did a "good" version and then the version you actually hear over the castle. I really want to know what their good version sounds like to compare it to my middle school band lmao. Disney has a performing arts field trip where they let the kids have a try at recording movie music so I actually have a recording of my band playing it too haha. I hope they add some of the music from Soul to the field trip music rotation, that would be super cool.

It was definitely a joy to see musicians in an animated thing holding and playing their instruments correctly AND having the music match what they're doing, it's sooooooo rare. Also, they clearly consulted a middle school band director for the middle school band scenes. Kid laying across the chair because they forgot their instrument being a saxophone player is 1000000% fact

BonoMan
Feb 20, 2002

Jade Ear Joe

Hawkperson posted:

To Soul's credit (music discussion, not story spoilers, but it kind of necessarily mentions characters and scenes? idk I'll spoiler it to be safe) they did a whole hell of a lot of work on the music stuff. The saxophone stuff is Tia Fuller and they very faithfully recreated her sax down to the specific ligature she uses. The piano-playing shots are Jon Batiste's hands and as someone who has watched far too much Colbert during quarantine, it's very clearly his hands and his unique piano playing style. I'm super curious to know if they had Fuller and Batiste play together for Joe's audition and if they also surprised Batiste to make it realistic (the "wait what are we playing?? ok I guess I'll use my ears" stuff).

The intro and the middle school band stuff are also literally a middle school band, the nerd band director groups I'm in are all aflutter about it and that band director has been actively sharing tidbits about how recording went. He said they did a "good" version and then the version you actually hear over the castle. I really want to know what their good version sounds like to compare it to my middle school band lmao. Disney has a performing arts field trip where they let the kids have a try at recording movie music so I actually have a recording of my band playing it too haha. I hope they add some of the music from Soul to the field trip music rotation, that would be super cool.

It was definitely a joy to see musicians in an animated thing holding and playing their instruments correctly AND having the music match what they're doing, it's sooooooo rare. Also, they clearly consulted a middle school band director for the middle school band scenes. Kid laying across the chair because they forgot their instrument being a saxophone player is 1000000% fact


Yeah everything musical in soul was A+

Phylodox
Mar 30, 2006



College Slice
I think I said this when Onward came out, but if you liked the concept and can stand live-play D&D shows, Dimension 20: Fantasy High from College Humor does pretty much the same concept (“What if John Hughes made a fantasy film?”) about a million times better.

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.


I was 27 when I saw Toy Story 4 in theatres, surrounded by kids and their parents. I have seen a ton of movies and yet I can't grasp what the point of the movie was, and what message it was supposed to send to its audience of children. It wasn't good, it wasn't bad, it was a shrug.

I haven't felt tempted to ever watch another Pixar offering.

Keanu Reeves and Key & Peele were funny though.

Truther Vandross
Jun 17, 2008

Inspector Gesicht posted:

I was 27 when I saw Toy Story 4 in theatres, surrounded by kids and their parents. I have seen a ton of movies and yet I can't grasp what the point of the movie was, and what message it was supposed to send to its audience of children. It wasn't good, it wasn't bad, it was a shrug.

I haven't felt tempted to ever watch another Pixar offering.

Keanu Reeves and Key & Peele were funny though.

The message wasn’t for the kids, it was for their parents. And it was that it’s okay to move on and let people make their own choices.

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.
People seem pretty touchy about animation being perceived as for kids, but I think at least Toy Story 4 should be. Toys, surely, must be for kids.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer
I mean it's sort of going over the same themes as previous films- arguably every film in the series has been ruminating on the fact that things end and things change and accepting that and going on can be difficult.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
The most consistent lesson of the Toy Story sequel universe is that actually yeah huh woody is special as hell

BonoMan
Feb 20, 2002

Jade Ear Joe

FunkyAl posted:

People seem pretty touchy about animation being perceived as for kids, but I think at least Toy Story 4 should be. Toys, surely, must be for kids.

I just cannot fathom a 27 year old, somehow having never seen a previous Pixar film, deciding to go watch Toy Story 4 for whatever reason... And then deducing their entire opinion of Pixar films based off of that. Completely divorced of the multitudes of critical acclaim and billions upon billions of dollars in box office revenue

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost

BonoMan posted:

I just cannot fathom a 27 year old, somehow having never seen a previous Pixar film, deciding to go watch Toy Story 4 for whatever reason... And then deducing their entire opinion of Pixar films based off of that. Completely divorced of the multitudes of critical acclaim and billions upon billions of dollars in box office revenue

revenues are good. good movies makes renevous

BonoMan
Feb 20, 2002

Jade Ear Joe

Pick posted:

revenues are good. good movies makes renevous

What?

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.

Ended up watching The Snowman (the 80s wordless movie) on Christmas Eve, it's really pretty though the boy's face ended up looking weird when he's emoting surprise or shock.

Walking in the Air is still a gorgeous af song for a gorgeous sequence, that ending tho...

General Dog
Apr 26, 2008

Everybody's working for the weekend
Soul feels like a companion piece to Up! more than anything else. Kind of expands on the central nugget of that thing that life isn’t actually about any one Big Thing, and is more just the sum of all the little boring stuff.

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.

BonoMan posted:

I just cannot fathom a 27 year old, somehow having never seen a previous Pixar film, deciding to go watch Toy Story 4 for whatever reason... And then deducing their entire opinion of Pixar films based off of that. Completely divorced of the multitudes of critical acclaim and billions upon billions of dollars in box office revenue

Not to speak for this alleged 27 year old, but it seems reasonable to go to a pixar movie, see it is no longer entertaining kids, or the adult it is also made for, and decide maybe thirty years of gas was all in that tank.


Tagline for Soul:
"What if your soul came to life when nobody was looking?"

SweetMercifulCrap!
Jan 28, 2012
Lipstick Apathy
Toy Story 4 wasn't bad, but it was totally pointless. It had nothing new to say or do with the characters, except at the end I guess, and it undercuts the ending of 3, which was a perfect sendoff.

Looper
Mar 1, 2012
i could pretty easily see someone going to check out the latest pixar flick and deciding that studio isn't for them. after incredibles 2 i don't really have any interest in seeing their work anymore

cant cook creole bream
Aug 15, 2011
I think Fahrenheit is better for weather
I like Pixar movies, but I heard Soul had something to do with jazz, which I deeply dislike. Should I skip the movie? I do have Disney+, but I don't really want to try it out if I will personally hate it anyway.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost

cant cook creole bream posted:

I like Pixar movies, but I heard Soul had something to do with jazz, which I deeply dislike. Should I skip the movie? I do have Disney+, but I don't really want to try it out if I will personally hate it anyway.

There is a LOT of jazz, if you do not like jazz there is a LOT of jazz to get through.

cant cook creole bream
Aug 15, 2011
I think Fahrenheit is better for weather
Well, I guess I am the anti-target audience for this movie than. Too bad. It's just not for me and I have to accept that.
Maybe one day someone will make a movie for someone like me. An absolutely white, hetero cis-male. I bet nobody has ever made a movie about and for that kind of person. :v:

cant cook creole bream fucked around with this message at 10:46 on Dec 27, 2020

Fartington Butts
Jan 21, 2007


SweetMercifulCrap! posted:

Toy Story 4 wasn't bad, but it was totally pointless. It had nothing new to say or do with the characters, except at the end I guess, and it undercuts the ending of 3, which was a perfect sendoff.

This is what I most agree with... as a 31 year old who has seen every Toy Story in a theater.

Kart Barfunkel
Nov 10, 2009


SweetMercifulCrap! posted:

Toy Story 4 wasn't bad, but it was totally pointless. It had nothing new to say or do with the characters, except at the end I guess, and it undercuts the ending of 3, which was a perfect sendoff.

I really like 4 a lot, and I feel like it’s the only really great thing Pixar has made for several movies now. And going through the series feels much more complete. Yes, 3 feels like the conclusion of the Andy Toy Crew, but 4 is the conclusion of Woody’s story. I also think it looks pretty much perfect. The lighting is amazing.

As a story about finding satisfaction in your twilight years it’s surprisingly mature for a kids movie. It’s a coda that requires 3 to ‘feel’ more like the ‘finale’. I understand why that may rub some the wrong way but to me it’s a worthwhile story to tell.

Kart Barfunkel fucked around with this message at 11:32 on Dec 27, 2020

Bongo Bill
Jan 17, 2012

Toy Story is a series of movies about religion. I see no thematic reason why they couldn't make as many of these movies as they want, with Woody growing a bit more enlightened in each outing. After all, the path toward better knowing and serving God is without end.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009
Nap Ghost
Toy Story 4 had no point, as far as I'm concerned, and most of 3 is pretty forgettable also.

Pixar is absolutely rote at this point, which isn't necessarily bad, but very very formulaic.

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009

📈📊🍪😋



Which is just super sad, because for at least 15 years after their emergence it seemed like they were operating on a level all their own, where they were physically incapable of putting a foot wrong. Even their weaker entries were miles ahead of what anyone else was doing and showed up their upstart competition as flailing posers. "New Pixar movie" was holy poo poo time

dennyk
Jan 2, 2005

Cheese-Buyer's Remorse

cant cook creole bream posted:

I like Pixar movies, but I heard Soul had something to do with jazz, which I deeply dislike. Should I skip the movie? I do have Disney+, but I don't really want to try it out if I will personally hate it anyway.

If you actively hate jazz, you're probably going to have a bad time; there's a fair amount on the soundtrack. If you're just indifferent to jazz (and/or music in general), it won't really be that bad; might be a couple parts where you're a bit bored and un-engaged for a few minutes, but it's still an enjoyable enough movie.

I agree about the message in Soul being a little confusing. I think what they were going for was the notion that life isn't about pursuing some specific pre-ordained purpose, but rather about living in the moment and experiencing everything. It reminded me of some of the philosophical monologues of Alan Watts, actually. The way the film played up the whole mentorship angle, though, really made it feel that they were going for some sort of "Joe's real purpose was being a teacher all along!" ending, or maybe something along the lines of "Don't get so focused on one singular definition of success that you miss out on your true calling along the way..." sort of thing, and as a result the final "Life doesn't actually have a 'purpose'!" idea feels a bit like it came out of left field, and seems a little anti-climactic. It could be that was their intention, to do the traditional character-discovers-his-passion-for-teaching/mentoring setup and then subvert it in the end with a non-traditional resolution and message, but I'm not sure it was executed as well as it could have been. The notion of life being inherently purposeless (and of that purposelessness being a positive thing, not some sort of existential-crisis nightmare fuel) is a bit of a jarring one that conflicts with most of what modern society teaches us, and I think the idea could have been expanded on and explored in greater depth, if that was indeed the idea they were trying to convey. I thought it was still a good movie, though; not one of Pixar's best, but it did have some interesting ideas, and of course the visuals and the soundtrack were both absolutely gorgeous.

BonoMan
Feb 20, 2002

Jade Ear Joe

Looper posted:

i could pretty easily see someone going to check out the latest pixar flick and deciding that studio isn't for them. after incredibles 2 i don't really have any interest in seeing their work anymore

I guess my point is that, if I'm checking a studio out for the first time (one that regardless of how rote they are now has a large collection of well liked films), I'm probably not going to pick *just* the fourth film in a franchise that is long in the tooth to make my sole decision off of.

Just seems setting yourself up to not like it.

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.


"future pixar offerings". This former 27 year old had seen plenty of their movies before Tolstoy 4, but now it feels like Ive seen all the tools in their box and theres no real reason to get excited, unless there's new blood in the company.

I liked the drat movie where Will Smith turns into a pigeon better. It even had the same plot as Spider Man far from Home but much less tone-deaf.

BonoMan
Feb 20, 2002

Jade Ear Joe
Yeah I don't really get excited about Pixar anymore. Feels like they can't really take risks (I feel like the more exciting parts about soul were cut short... Probably by committee).

They need to slow down and get smaller. Too much of a machine at this point.

Alan Smithee
Jan 4, 2005


A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

cant cook creole bream posted:

I like Pixar movies, but I heard Soul had something to do with jazz, which I deeply dislike. Should I skip the movie? I do have Disney+, but I don't really want to try it out if I will personally hate it anyway.

i mean theres a lot of talk about jazz being pointless so

FunkyAl
Mar 28, 2010

Your vitals soar.
Does the film ever resemble jazz visually, like in the way a good Bill Melendez cartoon sometimes can?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5Hsi9Xjw8M

Boxman
Sep 27, 2004

Big fan of :frog:


FunkyAl posted:

Tagline for Soul:
"What if your soul came to life when nobody was looking?"

"What if toys/bugs/monsters/cars/rats/feelings/mexican people had feelings" is the better version of this joke, imo

Anyway this rando on Disney twitter is having a normal one thanks to Soul, and I think we can all agree that its pretty great.

https://twitter.com/JLHomni/status/1342699861163053056
https://twitter.com/JLHomni/status/1343025878687752192

Macaluso
Sep 23, 2005

I HATE THAT HEDGEHOG, BROTHER!
Full Time Intellectual :lol:

Neon Noodle
Nov 11, 2016

there's nothing wrong here in montana
Amazing autocorrect :allears:

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Anime Deviant

Macaluso posted:

Full Time Intellectual :lol:
The responses are great

"They keeping you under 30hr/week over there??"

Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006
Toy Story 4's theme seems pretty clear to me. It's great to be there for people and support them, but that isn't the whole of what defines you. There is value in just exploring the world and yourself.

It's surprisingly critical of the franchise because the dramatic question has always been "What happens when a toy abandons you?" And they always kind of avoid answering that question truly. Either Andy rediscovers Woody or passes him onto someone new. But what ACTUALLY happens when it is truly the end of the line? I think Steven Universe and the She-Ra reboot have raised a critical eyes at the idea of Chosen One fantasies indulging unhealthy impulses over self-care and love, and I think Toy Story 4 exists on a similar thought line. Actually, now that I think about it, Toy Story 4 has a lot in common with Steven Universe Future.

I think the one bummer from Toy Story 4 is how direct a follow up to 3 it seems to the point where it basically undermines the ending of 3 in a way that left people sour. It would have been fun to see a montage at the start of the toys growing up with Bonnie until a thirteen year old Bonnie passes her old toys to her little sister who isn't into Woody. I think it would have really set up for people the dramatic question the film is sort of asking, "Okay, but what happens when the passing down of toys ends?" Because up to this point, the series has been positing that would just be hell.

I think Soul's lesson also comes from a similar place. The thing I loved most about Soul is how heavily they telegraph teaching being his real spark, but that's not quite right either. His life as a musician won't necessarily be bad, but it's not all just the high of being in the zone. It's eventually going to feel mundane and routine just like teaching. No matter what he chooses, he has to find the beauty in it.

I do think that people are shortchanging kids if they don't think these themes can resonate. Honestly, I wish I learned to relax and enjoy life a bit more when I was younger.

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.

Funny you mention Future, as while I get what they're going for, but it falls flat on its face by making the gems regressed back to 'lol how do humans function?' of S1 SU to drive the conflict

cant cook creole bream
Aug 15, 2011
I think Fahrenheit is better for weather

dennyk posted:

If you actively hate jazz, you're probably going to have a bad time; there's a fair amount on the soundtrack. If you're just indifferent to jazz (and/or music in general), it won't really be that bad; might be a couple parts where you're a bit bored and un-engaged for a few minutes, but it's still an enjoyable enough movie.

Unfortunately it's the former. Jazz is weird. I basically like music from every single genre, but that one is somehow both boring and overbearing. Also, for some reason I get headaches from the sound of saxophones. Oh, and I don't like pretentious jazz people. All of that makes me stay away from that movie.

Too bad really, I heard early stuff about it and I heard about some story about ghosts needing to come back and the animation was neat. But that's an absolute deal breaker.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

IShallRiseAgain
Sep 12, 2008

Well ain't that precious?

Data Graham posted:

Which is just super sad, because for at least 15 years after their emergence it seemed like they were operating on a level all their own, where they were physically incapable of putting a foot wrong. Even their weaker entries were miles ahead of what anyone else was doing and showed up their upstart competition as flailing posers. "New Pixar movie" was holy poo poo time

I think Disney starting to poach talent from Pixar for their own animation studio was what was the end of that. You'll notice the quality of Disney animated movies go up around the same time as Pixar started its decline.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply