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Sleeping Sigma posted:I suppose so. I was just hoping I wouldn't have to pay for shipping on Digimon stuff for once. Nice to see Bandai is still operating on the Rick James "buy another one, you rich motherfucker!" business model.
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Dec 26, 2020 05:02
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is it worth buying a boxset of the first five seasons dubbed for what i feel is a decent price if i'm the kind of person that likes having stuff on discs but my entire experience with Digimon is "had the digital pet as a kid because i was all in on digital pets in the mid-late 90s, watched a decent bit of the first two seasons as they aired but probably not the entirety of either, watched the movie when it came out on VHS, but haven't directly interacted with Digimon in like 20 years apart from buying and not playing the Cyber Sleuth games twice and getting and enjoying an anniversary digital pet a year ago"? i kinda wanna watch them but yeah, it's a big outlay in terms of time spent i guess the only other real comparison i could make is to say that i've read the Viz releases of the R/B/Y and X*Y arcs of Pokemon Adventures as an adult and enjoyed them
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Dec 26, 2020 06:00
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Homora Gaykemi posted:is it worth buying a boxset of the first five seasons dubbed for what i feel is a decent price if i'm the kind of person that likes having stuff on discs but my entire experience with Digimon is "had the digital pet as a kid because i was all in on digital pets in the mid-late 90s, watched a decent bit of the first two seasons as they aired but probably not the entirety of either, watched the movie when it came out on VHS, but haven't directly interacted with Digimon in like 20 years apart from buying and not playing the Cyber Sleuth games twice and getting and enjoying an anniversary digital pet a year ago"? i kinda wanna watch them but yeah, it's a big outlay in terms of time spent The dub version does that 90s-early 2000s kids anime thing where it changes a lot of the dialogue and cuts some stuff out, so I’m not sure if I’d recommend it over the sub versions. 3 has a pretty good dub though, all things considered, and I think the fifth season (Data Squad/Savers) is a bit closer to the original than the others are. If you want to relive your nostalgia and/or don’t mind the Americanization and hit-or-miss jokes and name changes then go for it though!
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Dec 26, 2020 07:35
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I still have problems with Adventure 20 in terms of plotting and structure, but man, when the show decides to go hard it goes HARD. Holy poo poo.
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Dec 27, 2020 04:10
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I didn’t even know there were box sets of dubbed digimon. I figured that was lost media outside of files.
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Dec 27, 2020 04:16
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Ccs posted:I didn’t even know there were box sets of dubbed digimon. I figured that was lost media outside of files. OG Digimon’s keept itself in rotation pretty consistently. I imagine the success of OG YuGiOh had keeping in the public eye with abridged and the boxsets as with Pokemon Indigo League has helped draw people in that direction. ConanThe3rd fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Dec 27, 2020 |
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Dec 27, 2020 05:27
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Omnicrom posted:I still have problems with Adventure 20 in terms of plotting and structure, but man, when the show decides to go hard it goes HARD. Holy poo poo. I stopped watching about 8 or 9 episodes in, does it pick up? I just found all the characters very bland and the evolutions a bit unearned. I did appreciate that they didn't just fall into predictable conflicts (e.g. no princess Mimi), and as everyone says the animation is nice.
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Dec 27, 2020 12:07
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The show feels like it got a multi-season order where it only had enough for the one. There is a lot of faff between the really good points (which are all near universely ether when they're fighting a big bad or whenever Mimi's on screen). Say what you will about stuff like Princess Mimi but that was at least intresting (or funny, ether's good) in the moment to moment.
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Dec 27, 2020 17:04
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womb with a view posted:I stopped watching about 8 or 9 episodes in, does it pick up? I just found all the characters very bland and the evolutions a bit unearned. Sadly no. The series puts zero interest in its characters and has fights every episode that feel like filler most of the time. The animation doesn't keep up either, we've had several very ugly episodes. It has some high points but overall Adventure: is definitely not as good as the series it reboots.
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Dec 27, 2020 18:40
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ConanThe3rd posted:Say what you will about stuff like Princess Mimi but that was at least intresting (or funny, ether's good) in the moment to moment. Yeah in the original Adventure it was fine, it worked as part of her character development and she had been living in the Digital World for months at that point so it was more understandable. But rehashing that for her intro in 2020 would have been a slog I think. Blaze Dragon posted:Sadly no. The series puts zero interest in its characters and has fights every episode that feel like filler most of the time. The animation doesn't keep up either, we've had several very ugly episodes. Ah that's too bad, I heard a lot of praise for it in the beginning!
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Dec 27, 2020 21:17
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If the show would stop relegating the non Taichi and Yamato characters to only doing reaction shots, the show would be pretty darn good
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Dec 27, 2020 21:20
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womb with a view posted:Yeah in the original Adventure it was fine, it worked as part of her character development and she had been living in the Digital World for months at that point so it was more understandable. But rehashing that for her intro in 2020 would have been a slog I think. It certainly deserved that praise in the beginning, when an action-packed and incredible intro segued into every kid getting spotlights. We just thought that once they got everyone up to Champion in the Digital World, we'd be going into some character development for everyone. Instead, we went right into Perfect.
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Dec 27, 2020 21:30
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womb with a view posted:Ah that's too bad, I heard a lot of praise for it in the beginning! That's because it had a praiseworthy beginning, but along the way it started to make a number of bad decisions. The show apparently decided to lean in really hard on spectacle at the expense of everything else, but that only gets so far when the show isn't doing anything with most of its characters. I wouldn't call it bad yet after seeing genuinely unfortunate Digimon, but it's slowly trending downward and if nothing else it's definitely disappointing. If Adventure 20 intends to turn it around the show needs hit the Drag Chute RIGHT NOW (Ideally it should have done it 5 episodes ago) and stop doing wall to wall action and lean in super hard on its cast of sadly neglected characters, otherwise it will be yet another show that fell to the curse of even numbered seasons. Better than Xros Wars at least so far. The Bee posted:It certainly deserved that praise in the beginning, when an action-packed and incredible intro segued into every kid getting spotlights. We just thought that once they got everyone up to Champion in the Digital World, we'd be going into some character development for everyone. The problem wasn't even catapulting up into Perfect, it was that after they debuted all the Perfects and finished that arc they split the team into the two groups of Taichi and Yamato and The People That Don't Matter for the entire next story arc. Then we got interesting half-step evolutions to Metal Greymon and Were Garurumon and nobody else. And then as soon as they reunited the team the show split them up again to focus multiple episodes exclusively on Taichi while everyone else does nothing. If everyone got a Perfect.5 X-Digimon form and we got episodes for those other people the show would be in much better shape. Omnicrom fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Dec 27, 2020 |
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Dec 27, 2020 21:31
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For all of Tri's faults, it didn't neglect the rest of the 01 kids. Jou and Mimi's character arcs in Determination are probably my favorite character development plots in the entire franchise, with the possible exception of Ken. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ELR7Med-vE Look at this fight. The whole movie has been building up to this moment, and it makes these Megas feel earned. girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Dec 27, 2020 |
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Dec 27, 2020 21:58
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I will say as far as KID AUDIENCE APPEAL goes, 8-12 year old me would have loved this series. But it also would have 100% been with the caveat of 'but the characters are kind of one note and don't get to do much besides fight' And I also admit I'm grading that on a curve of me being that age and shows not typically having action scenes like this series does. I don't know how jaded kids are to big flashy action scenes nowadays because back when I was young, you had six frames per fight and you liked it
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Dec 27, 2020 22:06
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I never need to see Tai and Agumon on the verge of death only to receive an incredible last minute power up ever again, but that's all this show is now. And don't get me wrong I like action, but it seems like every episode is the exact same formula with a different bad guy. Who is Sora? What's her character? Why is there a sightly different real world catastrophic event being monitored on a laptop every two episodes?
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Dec 27, 2020 22:09
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PMush Perfect posted:For all of Tri's faults, it didn't neglect the rest of the 01 kids. Jou and Mimi's character arcs in Determination are probably my favorite character development plots in the entire franchise, with the possible exception of Ken. I'm starting to wonder if Adventure content is just doomed to start strong, finish weak. We went from the interesting gimmick of Armors and Ken's fantastic arc to 02's slow decline. The first two episodes of Tri started really strong and the last ones ended up some of the worst Digimon content their is. And now we have Adventure: forgetting what made both it and the original series so special despite having an incredible start.
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Dec 27, 2020 22:13
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If anything this new series has shown me that Digimon is great at starting a series and just absolutely terrible at being one.
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Dec 28, 2020 00:47
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With the exception of the original Adventure, because the first couple of arcs are solid, but the series doesn't get really good until Vamdemon/Myotismon shows up.
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Dec 28, 2020 02:02
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Some Numbers posted:With the exception of the original Adventure, because the first couple of arcs are solid, but the series doesn't get really good until Vamdemon/Myotismon shows up. Even then, I'd argue the first arc is pretty good at what it does. Balances evolution and character stuff fairly okay, has some weak episodes, and the climax is excellent It gets real wonky once they leave the island though. The Myotismon arc is amazing
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Dec 28, 2020 02:38
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The original myotismon arc owned but thinking back that may be the only part of adventure i actually liked lol
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Dec 28, 2020 02:51
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Burkion posted:Even then, I'd argue the first arc is pretty good at what it does. Balances evolution and character stuff fairly okay, has some weak episodes, and the climax is excellent Yeah, fair, as entertaining as Etemon is, that whole bit is pretty weak compared to Devimon and Myotismon. mandatory lesbian posted:The original myotismon arc owned but thinking back that may be the only part of adventure i actually liked lol I like parts of the Dark Masters arc, but it does overfocus on Matt and Tai.
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Dec 28, 2020 02:57
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It's worth pointing out that there are a good number of the standout episodes of the Dark Masters arc had little or nothing to do with either Taichi or Yamato. Jyou and Mimi meeting up with Ogremon and Leomon and fighting Metal Etemon is highly memorable and had nothing to do with Taichi or Yamato. Takeru outwitting Pinochimon entirely on his own didn't involve Yamato until the very end when he left the group BECAUSE he didn't do anything that episode. Similarly the episode of Takeru and Hikari fleeing from Piemon had their older siblings being the first to go down. In the big slap fight episode against Lady Devimon, Taichi specifically didn't get involved in the battle for tactical reasons. That still left Taichi in Yamato with a good number of good episodes by the way, that arc still has the episode were Taichi freaks out when Hikari falls ill and runs all over the city trying to save her, and the episode where Yamato is convinced he needs to fight Taichi. Both very good character episodes where stuff happens and there's a lot of action WITHOUT needing to completely sideline the entire rest of the cast.
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Dec 28, 2020 03:13
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Tamers is probably the one show out of the bunch the gets the closest to being fantastic from start to finish, weighed down only by the flaws of stuff like the Ryo Problem, and that one episode dedicated to making Kazu and Kenta feel like they're supposed to be important that you can literally skip and miss absolutely nothing.
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Dec 28, 2020 03:30
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No Digimon series keeps a consistent level of quality, and you can divide them in "starts weak, ends strong" (Adventure, Tamers, Savers, Appmon) and "starts strong, ends weak" (02, Frontier, Xros Wars if including Hunters, Tri). As you may have realized, the former group has every good series. Never trust a Digimon series with a strong start. (note that I am specifically talking about arcs and not finales - Adventure has a weak finale despite being at its strongest before, Frontier actually has a really good finale despite coming after the horrendous Royal Knights arc)
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Dec 28, 2020 04:08
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Blaze Dragon posted:No Digimon series keeps a consistent level of quality, and you can divide them in "starts weak, ends strong" (Adventure, Tamers, Savers, Appmon) and "starts strong, ends weak" (02, Frontier, Xros Wars if including Hunters, Tri). I forget, if you discount Hunters (which I personally count as a sequel series considering it introduces a brand new plot, setup, and group of protagonists) is the finale to Xros Wars proper any better? Also Frontier could have easily ended after the Cherubimon arc (and probably could have been a lot better as a result despite the fact that only two of the protagonists actually mattered overall). Larryb fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Dec 28, 2020 |
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Dec 28, 2020 04:36
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Larryb posted:I forget, if you discount Hunters (which I personally count as a sequel series considering it introduces a brand new plot, setup, and group of protagonists) is the finale to Xros Wars proper any better? That's both Frontier and 02's problem: they had really great endings in hand and tried to do victory laps on them and slammed chin-first into the track. Frontier should have ended at Cherubimon, and 02 should have ended at Chimeramon and they just couldn't help themselves but continue.
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Dec 28, 2020 05:40
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Frontier would have been waaaay better if it had ended after Cherubimon and if Kouichi had been removed entirely.
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Dec 28, 2020 07:21
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Honestly I think the whole Royal Knights arc could have worked if it wasn't mostly 20 or so episodes of the main two getting their asses handed to them by LordKnightmon and Dynasmon while everyone else is stuck on the sidelines doing nothing, essentially making these changes; 1) all of the kids get to reach Ultimate(this includes that group of kids that were very blatantly meant to have been bearers for the Water, Wood, Earth, and Metal spirits at some point in the show's development*) 2) they only fight the actual Royal Knights a couple times tops, like once when they're introduced, and maybe one or two more times before the final fight against them 3) instead the Royal Knights have a full proper faction of minions serving them to act as opponents for the kids for most of the arc *this would tie into one of the only major changes prior to the Royal Knights arc that I would do(besides making Izumi less useless and actually have her win fights on her own, and deleting Aldamon and Beowolfmon from existence) is have all of the corrupted Spirits be possessed humans, not just Darkness
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Dec 28, 2020 08:13
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Larryb posted:I forget, if you discount Hunters (which I personally count as a sequel series considering it introduces a brand new plot, setup, and group of protagonists) is the finale to Xros Wars proper any better? Definitely. It's a one-stroke battle, but it's one that feels completely deserved, the final point of Shoutmon's growth into becoming a true Digimon King as he leads all Digimon into one massive DigiXros. It's good enough that I have memorized every single line in it during the Final Xros. Also Shoutmon X7 Superior Mode keeps being the most insane Digimon in the history of the franchise, which is one hell of an achievement. It's followed by your standard "humans and Digimon separate" moment but at least there's this feeling of "see you later" rather than "goodbye forever" which was kind of interesting, even if it was obvious it was because this was not over yet even though it most definitely should have been. Or if you mean the second half in general, I'd put it as better than the first. Introducing evolution made it feel more "Digimon" and the stakes were higher. It definitely suffers a bit in places, but I don't share the hatred of Xros Wars some people here have, and I'd definitely put it in the "starts weak, ends strong" category. Some Numbers posted:Frontier would have been waaaay better if it had ended after Cherubimon and if Kouichi had been removed entirely. Are you kidding? Koichi was the only good character in that mess of a show. I agree the Royal Knights arc should've never happened but removing the only character that had an actually interesting set up and development would only make the series worse. Also the only time we've had a human protagonist actually just loving die. Being a human won't save you from the Leomon curse. drrockso20 posted:Honestly I think the whole Royal Knights arc could have worked if it wasn't mostly 20 or so episodes of the main two getting their asses handed to them by LordKnightmon and Dynasmon while everyone else is stuck on the sidelines doing nothing, essentially making these changes; The series couldn't handle six characters and you want it to handle ten? I agree with the rest of your points, but that's not a great idea either. In general Digimon series do poorly with bigger casts, there's a reason why no other series has tried to have 8 protagonists at once like Adventure did. Even moreso when those 8 can balloon up to 16 if the Digimon get focus and development (which did not happen in Adventure, mind, but it does happen in later series) and Frontier was by far the worst at it (though goddamn is Adventure: trying to take that title).
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Dec 28, 2020 13:14
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The main improvement to frontier i would make is letting izumi win a fight
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Dec 28, 2020 13:25
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mandatory lesbian posted:The main improvement to frontier i would make is letting izumi win a fight Seriously, Izumi is probably the worst handled female protagonist in the entire franchise(while Eri from Appmon is at least one of if not the best). They couldn’t even let her win her DEBUT FIGHT for gently caress’s sake. Larryb fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Dec 28, 2020 |
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Dec 28, 2020 13:27
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Larryb posted:Seriously, Izumi is possibly one of the worst handled female protagonists in Digimon history (while Eri from Appmon is one of the best). They couldn’t even let her win her DEBUT FIGHT for gently caress’s sake. There's no "possibly one of" here. Even Sora in Adventure: has done more than Izumi got to in Frontier. Izumi is the absolute nadir in female character writing in the franchise, standing opposite to Ruki and the center of the universe, Karan Eri-sama. At least the mistake never repeated (to the same extent, at least) but goddamn it should not have happened even once. Like the only one I'd put on the same level of "why would you think this is acceptable" is Sora in Last Evolution where she straight up refuses to even be part of the movie, and even that feels better because at least it shows her choosing a different path instead of being incompetent.
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Dec 28, 2020 14:10
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Good point, fixed. Even on a character level she just sort of exists as far as I recall. I realize Frontier is the Takuya & Koji Show (feat. four other kids I guess) but I’m not sure how they managed to drop the ball this hard (and that’s just one of the show’s many problems for that matter). It’s kind of a shame Frontier was such a mess honestly because on paper a Digimon themed Sentai series actually sounds kind of cool.
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Dec 28, 2020 14:41
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Blaze Dragon posted:No Digimon series keeps a consistent level of quality, and you can divide them in "starts weak, ends strong" (Adventure, Tamers, Savers, Appmon) and "starts strong, ends weak" (02, Frontier, Xros Wars if including Hunters, Tri). I really want to rewatch Tamers because I do remember from many, many years ago that it gets really good. But my god I cannot get through those first 20 or so episodes.
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Dec 28, 2020 15:21
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Blaze Dragon posted:There's no "possibly one of" here. Even Sora in Adventure: has done more than Izumi got to in Frontier. Izumi is the absolute nadir in female character writing in the franchise, standing opposite to Ruki and the center of the universe, Karan Eri-sama. How soon we forget Meiko, or maybe I should say "thank God we quickly forgot Meiko". I have a particular distaste for Meiko because no matter how much the movies pretended otherwise I genuinely did not believe she actually cared that much about Maicoomon, which is a whoopsie as that's the only plot line Tri keeps for the entire run. The fact that she decided not to go to the Digital World with the rest of the cast at the end of movie three absolutely destroyed any sympathy or regard I could ever have for the character. The rest of the cast went on a perilous journey because they cared deeply about their partners and I have to believe that by simple act of contrast Meiko doesn't. By the end Meiko was mostly there to be sad and useless and not really matter, she needed the entire rest of the cast to remind her that she supposed to be friends with Maicoomon to figure out the password in movie six and then was not involved in the discussion at all when Taichi announces that he's going to put Ordinemon out of the audience's misery. Because, again, Meiko really doesn't care that much about Maicoomon. I mean she says she does, but when the going gets tough she gives up almost immediately. Broadly, I hate Meiko because her cowardice coupled with her incredibly fragile bond with her partner SHOULD mean she's cast into the wrong given the themes of Digimon in general, but for some reason the framing of the series tells me we're not meant to see her as pathetic failure but as some tragic victim of circumstance. I'm sorry but I don't because the show also showed how little Maicoomon actually meant to her. And related to that Sora in DA:LEK. You are way kinder to how DA:LEK treats Sora than I am, Sora gives up on her partner and refuses to help her oldest friends instead choosing to focus on doing something we know in advance that she won't stick with in complete defiance of her established character from any previous piece of Digimon media. Not only is DA:LEK's Sora antithetical to any previous iteration character, not only is she obnoxiously close to Meiko in how little fuss she makes when Piyomon goes away forever (or at least until the epilogue), but DA:LEK is repulsive enough to try and posit that Sora giving up on her friends for the sake the family tradition she didn't like somehow puts her as morally correct and further matured than any of her friends. Pass. And for Izumi, god she was a wreck. You're way harsher than I am on her, but I'm not going to pretend she was handled well. And I think that's why I don't have any particular venom for her, I think Frontier genuinely did her dirty. It's worth noting that she actually did consistently start winning fights and doing things as Shutumon during that middle third of Frontier when the whole cast got to do things and the show was at its best, but by then it was definitely too little and way too late. It's really hard to unbury someone after you bury them for a dozen episode, so the fact the show waited until episode 16 to throw her a bone is really what did her in. I've said it before but there is nothing inherent in her character that actually makes her bad, in fact I genuinely like her and how she was written as a person. If she had actually been framed and used as a legitimate fighter I think she would be held up as a good character, probably not Ruki or Eri tier, but certainly nowhere near where she is now. But of course she wasn't and isn't. And I will say this much for Izumi, Izumi as she was portrayed in Frontier is definitely not someone who would give up on her closest friends just because it's hard or because it's "the grown up thing to do". And I know that because she's literally given that choice and doesn't take it! Even if the show dumped on Fairymon so hard it actually became a joke IN THE SERIES (there's a bit where she gets thrashed offscreen as a gag, because of course she does, Fairymon never wins any fights), Izumi was still a fighter at heart and she never gave up no matter how often the show threw her around. Even at Frontier's nadir she was doing anything she could possibly imagine to try and help even without her spirits. Frontier completely mishandled her as a real combatant, but I still came away with some real respect for the character of Izumi. Put her in another season I think she really could have shined.
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Dec 28, 2020 20:36
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For a franchise that really likes to sell to its legacy fans, it has an almost psychotic hatred of adults trying to be anything but utterly loving miserable in the Tri era.
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Dec 28, 2020 22:05
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Blaze Dragon posted:Definitely. It's a one-stroke battle, but it's one that feels completely deserved, the final point of Shoutmon's growth into becoming a true Digimon King as he leads all Digimon into one massive DigiXros. It's good enough that I have memorized every single line in it during the Final Xros. Also Shoutmon X7 Superior Mode keeps being the most insane Digimon in the history of the franchise, which is one hell of an achievement. Oh I'm not thinking they'd get much focus or development as characters*, they're mostly there so that unlike the original show we wouldn't have 4 of the 10 Ancient Spirits disappear as anything besides fusion fodder for the rest of the show(same reason I'd be giving all the kids Ultimate forms and ditching the five spirit requirements for KaiserGreymon and MagnaGarurumon) *indeed for this version I'd basically establish their human versions as more or less identical in personality as when they'd been Grottomon, Arbormon, Ranamon, and Mercuremon, just minus the evil and dialing down the quirks a bit, so they in fact would have already had some character development, unlike with Duskmon and Kouichi where they're not alike at all and you basically have to start from scratch
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Dec 28, 2020 22:54
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ConanThe3rd posted:For a franchise that really likes to sell to its legacy fans, it has an almost psychotic hatred of adults trying to be anything but utterly loving miserable in the Tri era. Yeah I thought that was weirdly antithetical to the ethos of Adventure, especially in Kizuna. I heard that Hiroyuki Kakudou left the production of it because he didn't agree with the direction it was taking, I wonder if that was part of it.
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Dec 28, 2020 22:58
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ConanThe3rd posted:For a franchise that really likes to sell to its legacy fans, it has an almost psychotic hatred of adults trying to be anything but utterly loving miserable in the Tri era. The good part of adult Digimon is the modern games. The anime's better off ignored, Tri and Last Evolution showed they have no goddamn idea how to actually relate to the adult demographic. Or well, worse, since both nail certain things that would be great to see only to ruin them later. What world are we living in where my post can be summarized as "Digimon games good, Digimon anime bad"?
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Dec 28, 2020 23:03
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